CDZ Serious political scenario

[RetiredGySgt]

No they would not as there is NO LEGAL grounds for the action.

God, you are slow.

No shit! That is the whole fucking point.

No sane person would support them and no Government agency would obey an illegal order to disband Congress.

I disagree.

It shouldn't be that hard for you to believe. Isn't Clinton a criminal in your world?

They simply can NOT disolve the Government it does not exist for a mechanism to allow it.

Fiat.

Most dictators were elected into power. When they got into power, they dissolved the government and no one stopped them.

Dictators had the support of the Military to enforce their decrees. The US Military would NOT support a US President that illegally ordered them to disband Congress. As for the President ignoring impeachment unlike him Congress would have the legal right to do it and Law enforcement agencies WOULD in fact obey their order to remove him from office. The Military would not intervene to stop them.

 

[Onyx]

Dictators had the support of the Military to enforce their decrees.

This is true.

An authoritarian without authority is just a talking head.

The US Military would NOT support a US President that illegally ordered them to disband Congress.

The military follows orders. It does not exercise free thought.

The system is compartmentalized for a reason.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Dictators had the support of the Military to enforce their decrees.

This is true.

An authoritarian without authority is just a talking head.

The US Military would NOT support a US President that illegally ordered them to disband Congress.

The military follows orders. It does not exercise free thought.

The system is compartmentalized for a reason.

Wrong as usual it is ingrained in the military that one does not follow illegal orders. I spent 16 years in the Marine Corps there is no way the Military would obey a rogue president trying to disband the Congress.

 

[JoeMoma]

Dictators had the support of the Military to enforce their decrees.

This is true.

An authoritarian without authority is just a talking head.

The US Military would NOT support a US President that illegally ordered them to disband Congress.

The military follows orders. It does not exercise free thought.

The system is compartmentalized for a reason.

Wrong! The military follows legal orders. Many soldiers have been court martialed for following illegal orders.

 

[Onyx]

Wrong as usual it is ingrained in the military that one does not follow illegal orders.

I believe there would be dissent in the military, but those generals would be purged until the only ones left would follow orders.

I spent 16 years in the Marine Corps there is no way the Military would obey a rogue president trying to disband the Congress.

Can you back that up?

Conjecture is not sufficient.

 

[Onyx]

Wrong! The military follows legal orders. Many soldiers have been court martialed for following illegal orders.

Yes, we all know of your delusional faith in the rule of law

 

[Onyx]

As expected, the majority of posts are empty claims that "the president can't do it; It's Illegal!"

Have faith in the courts and constitution! They will protect you!

 

[WheelieAddict]

Your question is not based on a realistic scenario, the checks and balances of the USA system are robust.

Are you fucking serious?

Checks and balances do not matter to someone that just informally declared themselves a dictator

That you state most third world countries have a more robust system than the USA is laughable to the point it is hard for me to stop laughing at you.

I am sure the snobbish dismissal tactic will serve you well here

The title of your thread "Serious political scenario". It's simply not a serious scenario in the United States. No one is going to unilaterally cancel our checks and balances and become dictator. The United States is probably the least likely place this could happen.

You still haven't explained how third world countries have a more robust system than the United States

 

[JoeMoma]

Wrong! The military follows legal orders. Many soldiers have been court martialed for following illegal orders.

Yes, we all know of your delusional faith in the rule of law

Anyway, your question has been answered. You are the one being delusional to believe that the president would have the power to dissolve congress.

The deference between our government and that of a third world country is that ours is almost 250 years old and the powers of the branches of government are entrenched and well known. The government of a third world country would have to be very unstable to allow a president to become a dictator by fiat.

 

[Onyx]

It's simply not a serious scenario in the United States.

Conjecture.

No one is going to unilaterally cancel our checks and balances and become dictator.

Conjecture

The United States is probably the least likely place this could happen.

Conjecture

It can't happen here, amiright?

You still haven't explained how third world countries have a more robust system than the United States

You are trying to meander by baiting me into irrelevant side conversations.

To get you to shut up - The vast majority of this worlds 196 recognized government have at least three branches of government and a constitution. Perhaps you should be explaining how the United States has a more robust system....

 

[Onyx]

Anyway, your question has been answered.

Yes, the president would be impeaced and peacefully surrender, and we would all live happily ever after

You are the one being delusional to believe that the president would have the power to dissolve congress.

I never said the president would have legal power. That was strawman on your behalf.

However, I did say the president would have fiat. No dictator ever had the legal power to dissolve the government, but that did not stop them from doing so.

The deference between our government and that of a third world country is that ours is almost 250 years old and the powers of the branches of government are entrenched and well known.

Our seventh president directly ignored orders from Congress three times. Read a US history book.

The government of a third world country would have to be very unstable to allow a president to become a dictator by fiat.

Newsflash: We do not have a stable government.

Were you not following this circus of an election?

 

[WheelieAddict]

It's simply not a serious scenario in the United States.

Conjecture.

No one is going to unilaterally cancel our checks and balances and become dictator.

Conjecture

The United States is probably the least likely place this could happen.

Conjecture

It can't happen here, amiright?

You still haven't explained how third world countries have a more robust system than the United States

You are trying to meander by baiting me into irrelevant side conversations.

To get you to shut up - The vast majority of this worlds 196 recognized government have at least three branches of government and a constitution. Perhaps you should be explaining how the United States has a more robust system....

No you need to explain how third world countries have a more robust system as you claimed that first. You don't get to demand explanations when you don't explain your stupid claims first.

 

[Onyx]

No you need to explain how third world countries have a more robust system as you claimed that first.

Yep, because that has zero relevance to the OP, and therefore we must get into a long debate over this one irrelevant semantical detail.......... Okay, whatever. I will take your bait.

The Republic of China, a third world country, has five branches of government and an elaborate system of checks and balances. Despite this, they have mini coups within their government every year. Actually it was the dictator Chiang Kai Shek that instituted those five branches of government.

You don't get to demand explanations when you don't explain your stupid claims first.

Oh, really? What the fuck are you going to do about it?

 

[JoeMoma]

No you need to explain how third world countries have a more robust system as you claimed that first.

Yep, because that has 0% relevance to the subject of the OP, and therefore we must get into a long debate over this one irrelevant semantical detail? Okay, whatever. I will take your bait.

The Republic of China, a third world country, has five branches of government and an elaborate system of checks and balances. Yet they have mini coups within their government every year.

You don't get to demand explanations when you don't explain your stupid claims first.

Oh, really? What the fuck are you going to do about it?

Hey, we have been going easy on you because this thread is in the CDZ forum. It needs to be moved to the rubber room, because that is where an American president would end up if he tried to become a dictator by fiat as you suggest. This thread is a waste of time because you are clearly living in a fantasy land.

 

[IsaacNewton]

I expect to get some naive comments from this sites dumbass population (all of you), but here goes nothing.

Realistically, what do you believe would happen if either Trump/Clinton declared that they were dissolving the US congress several months into their administration, and that they would establish a transitional committee to govern the country during their reorganization of congress?

Before you laugh it off, consider that this type of thing happens regularly in the third world. What I have never seen are the people that do it immediately fail in their attempt, no matter how much support or precedent there is for the ruling government.

This is your typical dictator scenario, in case that was not already obvious

The only way for any government official anywhere in the world to be successful with a coup is if most of the military backs them. Otherwise it is meaningless and almost always these derps don't attempt such a thing unless the military is also corrupt and the would be dictator promises them riches and power if they back him.

In the US this would not happen 98% of the time. However, if Trump were to win and the Republicans retained control of both houses then we DO have a problem. Even though the Republicans don't really like him they would see their last opportunity to make radical changes to the government and the Constitution. This scenario is possible. Though they also would have to have the backing of most of the military.

The people wouldn't stand for it for a second though. The streets would be wall to wall people from coast to coast.

 

[OldLady]

It would be all over the news. The news pundits would have a field day explaining that the president does not have such power. If the president continues to declar for the dissolution of congress, congress is likely to declare the president unstable and impeach the president for not upholding the oath to protect the constitution, The VP will take over as president.

Okay, you are not grasping the concept.

What makes you believe the president is going to accept impeachment? Were you not listening? The president just dissolved the government.

Onyx, what we are trying to tell you is that he can wave a magic wand and SAY whatever he wants, but if no one LISTENS, he's going to be the one in a padded cell toot sweet.

 

[Onyx]

Onyx, what we are trying to tell you is that he can wave a magic wand and SAY whatever he wants, but if no one LISTENS, he's going to be the one in a padded cell toot sweet.

The crux of my argument is that people would be complacent, the military would continue following orders, and our countries "checks and balances" would definitely not stop someone from ruling by fiat. In case you were unaware, all state power derives at least in part from fiat.

It is not a crime to declare that the congress is dissolved, so he/she could not be jailed. Are you telling me that if Donald Trump declared that congress was a cesspool of corruption and incompetence (in line with his narrative), and that he was dissolving and reorganizing congress, that there would not be tens of millions cheering his name and a military-industrial complex obeying his every order?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I expect to get some naive comments from this sites dumbass population (all of you), but here goes nothing.
Realistically, what do you believe would happen if either Trump/Clinton declared that they were dissolving the US congress several months into their administration, and that they would establish a transitional committee to govern the country during their reorganization of congress?

Nothing. This cannot happen; any declaration to that effect is meaningless.

 

[Onyx]

The only way for any government official anywhere in the world to be successful with a coup is if most of the military backs them. Otherwise it is meaningless and almost always these derps don't attempt such a thing unless the military is also corrupt and the would be dictator promises them riches and power if they back him.

The commander in chief has the legal power to reorganize the military and put backing generals into power.

The US military-industrial complex is one of the most corrupt institutions in the world, dare I say the most corrupt institution in the entire world.

The people wouldn't stand for it for a second though. The streets would be wall to wall people from coast to coast.

This sounds good and all, but you need to distinguish reality from fantasy.

A lot of people would be pissed, but I do not really expect anyone to do shit until a great deal of time passes.

 

[Onyx]

Nothing. This cannot happen; any declaration to that effect is meaningless.

If you believe this scenario is not plausible, then you must be living up in Carebear Castle.