Secularists...Hoist By Their Own Petard

[Moonglow]

Have you always romanticized about living under an enlightened despot and the abuses of the Catholic church?

Aha!
Now you've devolved to a straight-forward lie!

True colors coming out?



But....I understand.....others of your ilk to whom I've had to administer similar beating become vulgar.

Carry on.

Just as vulgar as the Popes that bought their way into the position..

PC is the sort of Catholic who thinks Catholics can do no wrong, unless of course they lean left, like her current Pope.

Napoleon had the right idea of how to deal with a defunct religious empire..

Napoleon!

Yet another topic that you know less than nothing about.

He actually reversed the excesses of the French Revolution.

The French Revolution's attempts at dechristianization proved such a failure, and mistake, that Napoleon reversed same, and entered into a concordat with the church in 1801.

He reversed the following:
"April 13, April 13, 1798, was a Friday. But it was springtime inrevolutionary Paris, meaning that under the Directory’s new calendar it was the twenty-forth day of the month of Germinal in the Year Six, and the next day of rest was still six days distant, not two.

Has any reform been more futile?The Government’sarrogant discard of Christianitymeans that weeks have been extended to ten days instead of seven. The revision’s intent is to supplant the papal calendar with a uniform alternative of twelve months of thirty days each, based on the system of ancient Egypt. Bibles themselves were torn up to make paper gun cartridges in the grim days of 1793, and now the biblical week has been guillotined, each month instead divided into three decades of ten days, with the year, with the year beginning at the autumn equinox and five to six holidays added to balance idealism with our solar orbit. Not content with regimenting the calendar, the government has introduced a new metric system for weight and measure.

There are even proposals for a new clock of precisely 100,000 seconds each day.Reason, reason!...The new calendar is the kind of logical idea imposed by clever people that completely ignores habit, emotion, and human nature and thus forecasts the Revolution’s doom.

Your colonial revolution [the American Revolution] was one of political independence. This one in France is about the very order of life. My God, a king guillotined! Thousands sent to slaughter! Wars unleashed on every French border! Atheism enshrined! Church lands seized, debts ignored, estates confiscated, rabbles armed, riots, anarchy, and tyranny!"
From the novel “Napoleon’ Pyramids,” by William Dietrich; one gets the sense of the utter stupidity of the "Cult of Reason."

Yet Napoleon imprisoned the Pope and arrested many cardinals..Along with dissolving the Holy Roman Empire..

 

[Moonglow]

The Enlightenment quest to promote reason as the basis for legitimacy and progress found little to praise in the Church. While the philosophes appreciated the value of religion in promoting moral and social order, the Church itself was condemned for its power and influence. The scandal surrounding the divisive theological movement of Jansenism, exacerbated by the heavy-handed treatment of its followers earlier in the century, furnished one reason for attacking the Church’s authority and its close links with the monarchy. France’s lack of toleration for religious minorities provided another. - See more at: The French Revolution and the Catholic Church | History Today

Yet another attempt to change the subject....
....meaning yet another full out retreat.


Now do you see why you should have stayed in school instead of running off to join the circus?

You're funny,

but looks ain't everything...

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Enlightenment quest to promote reason as the basis for legitimacy and progress found little to praise in the Church. While the philosophes appreciated the value of religion in promoting moral and social order, the Church itself was condemned for its power and influence. The scandal surrounding the divisive theological movement of Jansenism, exacerbated by the heavy-handed treatment of its followers earlier in the century, furnished one reason for attacking the Church’s authority and its close links with the monarchy. France’s lack of toleration for religious minorities provided another. - See more at: The French Revolution and the Catholic Church | History Today

Yet another attempt to change the subject....
....meaning yet another full out retreat.


Now do you see why you should have stayed in school instead of running off to join the circus?

She's using her 'change the subject' deflection now. That is a sure tell she's lost the argument.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Aha!
Now you've devolved to a straight-forward lie!

True colors coming out?



But....I understand.....others of your ilk to whom I've had to administer similar beating become vulgar.

Carry on.

Just as vulgar as the Popes that bought their way into the position..

PC is the sort of Catholic who thinks Catholics can do no wrong, unless of course they lean left, like her current Pope.

Napoleon had the right idea of how to deal with a defunct religious empire..

Napoleon!

Yet another topic that you know less than nothing about.

He actually reversed the excesses of the French Revolution.

The French Revolution's attempts at dechristianization proved such a failure, and mistake, that Napoleon reversed same, and entered into a concordat with the church in 1801.

He reversed the following:
"April 13, April 13, 1798, was a Friday. But it was springtime inrevolutionary Paris, meaning that under the Directory’s new calendar it was the twenty-forth day of the month of Germinal in the Year Six, and the next day of rest was still six days distant, not two.

Has any reform been more futile?The Government’sarrogant discard of Christianitymeans that weeks have been extended to ten days instead of seven. The revision’s intent is to supplant the papal calendar with a uniform alternative of twelve months of thirty days each, based on the system of ancient Egypt. Bibles themselves were torn up to make paper gun cartridges in the grim days of 1793, and now the biblical week has been guillotined, each month instead divided into three decades of ten days, with the year, with the year beginning at the autumn equinox and five to six holidays added to balance idealism with our solar orbit. Not content with regimenting the calendar, the government has introduced a new metric system for weight and measure.

There are even proposals for a new clock of precisely 100,000 seconds each day.Reason, reason!...The new calendar is the kind of logical idea imposed by clever people that completely ignores habit, emotion, and human nature and thus forecasts the Revolution’s doom.

Your colonial revolution [the American Revolution] was one of political independence. This one in France is about the very order of life. My God, a king guillotined! Thousands sent to slaughter! Wars unleashed on every French border! Atheism enshrined! Church lands seized, debts ignored, estates confiscated, rabbles armed, riots, anarchy, and tyranny!"
From the novel “Napoleon’ Pyramids,” by William Dietrich; one gets the sense of the utter stupidity of the "Cult of Reason."

Yet Napoleon imprisoned the Pope and arrested many cardinals..Along with dissolving the Holy Roman Empire..

Ever notice that the more wrong she is, the more frantically she fights?

She's that monkey with his hand stuck in the jar who won't let go of the banana.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"The French Revolution was viewed as anti-Christian in general and anti-Catholic in particular. Joseph de Maistre, resident in Lausanne, declared in 1797, "There is a satanic quality to the French Revolution that distinguishes it from everything we have ever seen or are likely to see in the future." "A Laboratory of Liberty: The Transformation of Political Culture in Republican Switzerland, 1750-1848 (Studies in Central European Histories)" By Marc Lerner, p. 83-84
From " Joseph de Maistre: Considerations on France (Cambridge Texts in the History of Political Thought)"
byJoseph de MaistreandRichard A. Lebrun





Written in 1797...."There is a satanic quality to the French Revolution that distinguishes it from everything we have ever seen or are likely to see in the future."

Maistre could not have imagined the scions of the French Revolution....the Soviet communists, nor Mao.....

 

[Moonglow]

"The French Revolution was viewed as anti-Christian in general and anti-Catholic in particular. Joseph de Maistre, resident in Lausanne, declared in 1797, "There is a satanic quality to the French Revolution that distinguishes it from everything we have ever seen or are likely to see in the future." "A Laboratory of Liberty: The Transformation of Political Culture in Republican Switzerland, 1750-1848 (Studies in Central European Histories)" By Marc Lerner, p. 83-84
From " Joseph de Maistre: Considerations on France (Cambridge Texts in the History of Political Thought)"
byJoseph de MaistreandRichard A. Lebrun





Written in 1797...."There is a satanic quality to the French Revolution that distinguishes it from everything we have ever seen or are likely to see in the future."

Maistre could not have imagined the scions of the French Revolution....the Soviet communists, nor Mao.....

The Catholic church should not have been so abusive, or a required tithe collector....Nor should they have hated other sects of Christianity....to the point of exterminating them...

 

[PoliticalChic]

"The French Revolution was viewed as anti-Christian in general and anti-Catholic in particular. Joseph de Maistre, resident in Lausanne, declared in 1797, "There is a satanic quality to the French Revolution that distinguishes it from everything we have ever seen or are likely to see in the future." "A Laboratory of Liberty: The Transformation of Political Culture in Republican Switzerland, 1750-1848 (Studies in Central European Histories)" By Marc Lerner, p. 83-84
From " Joseph de Maistre: Considerations on France (Cambridge Texts in the History of Political Thought)"
byJoseph de MaistreandRichard A. Lebrun





Written in 1797...."There is a satanic quality to the French Revolution that distinguishes it from everything we have ever seen or are likely to see in the future."

Maistre could not have imagined the scions of the French Revolution....the Soviet communists, nor Mao.....

The Catholic church should not have been so abusive, or a required tithe collector....Nor should they have hated other sects of Christianity....to the point of exterminating them...

It was not the Church that was responsible for over a half million deaths that resulted from the French Revolution....
...it was the birth of totalitarian governance.
Napoleon was the first modern dictator...

1. The French Revolution, under Robespierre interpreted violence as the ‘language’ that explained to the masses the ideals of the revolution. “If the spring of popular government in times of peace is virtue, the springs of popular government in revolution are at once virtue and terror….Terror is nothing other than justice.” Robespierre speech, February 5, 1794.

a. “For the first time in history terror became an official government policy, with the stated aim to use violence in order to achieve a higher political goal. Unlike the later meaning of 'terrorists' as people who use violence against a government, the terrorists of the French Revolution were the government. The Terror was legal, having been voted for by the Convention.” http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5829848/Robespierre-and-the-terror-Marisa.html

b. Sorel and every other advocate of the left, learned and understood this message.

c. Bolsheviks claimed descent: “Historians of the French Revolution, which the Russians saw as a model for their own…” http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpress...b2w4&chunk.id=d0e44&toc.depth=1&brand=ucpress


And, of course, the 32nd President of the United States was the facilitator of international communism.

 

[NYcarbineer]

"The French Revolution was viewed as anti-Christian in general and anti-Catholic in particular. Joseph de Maistre, resident in Lausanne, declared in 1797, "There is a satanic quality to the French Revolution that distinguishes it from everything we have ever seen or are likely to see in the future." "A Laboratory of Liberty: The Transformation of Political Culture in Republican Switzerland, 1750-1848 (Studies in Central European Histories)" By Marc Lerner, p. 83-84
From " Joseph de Maistre: Considerations on France (Cambridge Texts in the History of Political Thought)"
byJoseph de MaistreandRichard A. Lebrun





Written in 1797...."There is a satanic quality to the French Revolution that distinguishes it from everything we have ever seen or are likely to see in the future."

Maistre could not have imagined the scions of the French Revolution....the Soviet communists, nor Mao.....

The Catholic church should not have been so abusive, or a required tithe collector....Nor should they have hated other sects of Christianity....to the point of exterminating them...

It was not the Church that was responsible for over a half million deaths that resulted from the French Revolution....
...it was the birth of totalitarian governance.
Napoleon was the first modern dictator...

1. The French Revolution, under Robespierre interpreted violence as the ‘language’ that explained to the masses the ideals of the revolution. “If the spring of popular government in times of peace is virtue, the springs of popular government in revolution are at once virtue and terror….Terror is nothing other than justice.” Robespierre speech, February 5, 1794.

a. “For the first time in history terror became an official government policy, with the stated aim to use violence in order to achieve a higher political goal. Unlike the later meaning of 'terrorists' as people who use violence against a government, the terrorists of the French Revolution were the government. The Terror was legal, having been voted for by the Convention.” http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5829848/Robespierre-and-the-terror-Marisa.html

b. Sorel and every other advocate of the left, learned and understood this message.

c. Bolsheviks claimed descent: “Historians of the French Revolution, which the Russians saw as a model for their own…” Bolshevik Festivals, 1917–1920


And, of course, the 32nd President of the United States was the facilitator of international communism.

And on and on it goes.

Most of the deaths she's referring to, btw, were in wars involving France and other European nations.

 

[Dot Com]

Jefferson:

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.



Seneca the Younger:

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.




church was separate from the state (Mt. 22:21; 1Cor. 5:12, 13 1 Pet. 2:13, 14



Albert Einstein:

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

And Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist running for president in the 2016 election....

You are deliberately using the most radical anti-religious founder as the mainstream opinion of early America and it is utterly amazing how only Democrats are too stupid to understand why that is wrong.

ummm.....he wrote the virginia religious freedom statute there guy

 

[there4eyeM]

"The Lion Monument (German: Löwendenkmal), or the Lion of Lucerne, is a rock relief in Lucerne,Switzerland, designed by Bertel Thorvaldsen and hewn in 1820–21 by Lukas Ahorn. It commemorates the Swiss Guards who were massacred in 1792 during the French Revolution, when revolutionaries stormed the Tuileries Palace in Paris."

Sorry, but this one is just too good not to comment on for 'Senseless', a.k.a. Polythick.
Note that this is a memorial to Swiss mercenary troops (foreign to France, right?) that were there to protect traitors (French Royalists who had communicated and plotted with foreign powers, understood?) from justice. We could as well say the French 'massacred' Germans in WWI and WWII and add that to the casualties of the revolution.

The principles to which the origins of the French Revolution aspired were not only the same as those of the American freedom struggle, it is where those principles came from. Look at Montaigne for a very early example with natural lines to the 'founders'. For historical reasons that our hysterical 'PolChnik' refuses to acknowledge, the progression in France to a true republic took time and blood. Blood and time also played in the U.S., it must be noted, and the Civil War is but one, though immense, example.

One thing she shares with many other posters on USM is the immediate categorization of anything and anyone not conforming to her 'interpretation' of reality as 'liberal', 'Nazi', 'fascist', loathsome, impure and unnatural. Absolutism in its pure form. Absolutists are responsible for more suffering than any other identifiable political phylum.

 

[NYcarbineer]

"The French Revolution was viewed as anti-Christian in general and anti-Catholic in particular. Joseph de Maistre, resident in Lausanne, declared in 1797, "There is a satanic quality to the French Revolution that distinguishes it from everything we have ever seen or are likely to see in the future." .

See, now that is classic PC fallacious reasoning at work.

Somebody named Joseph de Maistre declared the French Revolution 'satanic', and that's it,

from that point on every outrageous conclusion about the French Revolution and atheism, or secularism, or humanism, or liberalism that you wish to attach all becomes real and true, because it has the imprimatur of

Joe de Maistre.

too funny

 

[NYcarbineer]

"The Lion Monument (German: Löwendenkmal), or the Lion of Lucerne, is a rock relief in Lucerne,Switzerland, designed by Bertel Thorvaldsen and hewn in 1820–21 by Lukas Ahorn. It commemorates the Swiss Guards who were massacred in 1792 during the French Revolution, when revolutionaries stormed the Tuileries Palace in Paris."

Sorry, but this one is just too good not to comment on for 'Senseless', a.k.a. Polythick.
Note that this is a memorial to Swiss mercenary troops (foreign to France, right?) that were there to protect traitors (French Royalists who had communicated and plotted with foreign powers, understood?) from justice. We could as well say the French 'massacred' Germans in WWI and WWII and add that to the casualties of the revolution.

The principles to which the origins of the French Revolution aspired were not only the same as those of the American freedom struggle, it is where those principles came from. Look at Montaigne for a very early example with natural lines to the 'founders'. For historical reasons that our hysterical 'PolChnik' refuses to acknowledge, the progression in France to a true republic took time and blood. Blood and time also played in the U.S., it must be noted, and the Civil War is but one, though immense, example.

One thing she shares with many other posters on USM is the immediate categorization of anything and anyone not conforming to her 'interpretation' of reality as 'liberal', 'Nazi', 'fascist', loathsome, impure and unnatural. Absolutism in its pure form. Absolutists are responsible for more suffering than any other identifiable political phylum.

They think Godwin's law is a good thing.

 

[there4eyeM]

They certainly are in compliance.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"The Lion Monument (German: Löwendenkmal), or the Lion of Lucerne, is a rock relief in Lucerne,Switzerland, designed by Bertel Thorvaldsen and hewn in 1820–21 by Lukas Ahorn. It commemorates the Swiss Guards who were massacred in 1792 during the French Revolution, when revolutionaries stormed the Tuileries Palace in Paris."

Sorry, but this one is just too good not to comment on for 'Senseless', a.k.a. Polythick.
Note that this is a memorial to Swiss mercenary troops (foreign to France, right?) that were there to protect traitors (French Royalists who had communicated and plotted with foreign powers, understood?) from justice. We could as well say the French 'massacred' Germans in WWI and WWII and add that to the casualties of the revolution.

The principles to which the origins of the French Revolution aspired were not only the same as those of the American freedom struggle, it is where those principles came from. Look at Montaigne for a very early example with natural lines to the 'founders'. For historical reasons that our hysterical 'PolChnik' refuses to acknowledge, the progression in France to a true republic took time and blood. Blood and time also played in the U.S., it must be noted, and the Civil War is but one, though immense, example.

One thing she shares with many other posters on USM is the immediate categorization of anything and anyone not conforming to her 'interpretation' of reality as 'liberal', 'Nazi', 'fascist', loathsome, impure and unnatural. Absolutism in its pure form. Absolutists are responsible for more suffering than any other identifiable political phylum.

Well....let's see if you're educable....

You say this:

"One thing she shares with many other posters on USM is the immediate categorization of anything and anyone not conforming to her 'interpretation' of reality as 'liberal', 'Nazi', 'fascist', loathsome, impure and unnatural. Absolutism in its pure form. Absolutists are responsible for more suffering than any other identifiable political phylum."


Read carefully, and you may realize what a dunce you are:

1. Although attributed to Rousseau, it was Diderot who gave the model for totalitarianism of reason: “We must reason about all things,” and anyone who ‘refuses to seek out the truth’ thereby renounces his human nature and “should be treated by the rest of his species as a wild beast.” So, once ‘truth’ is determined, anyone who doesn’t accept it was “either insane or wicked and morally evil.” It is not the individual who has the “ right to decide about the nature of right and wrong,” but only “the human race,” expressed as the general will. Himmelfarb, “The Roads to Modernity,” p. 167-68

Did you get that?

Disagree....and the consequence is death. Such is the view of every totalitarian regime.
Hence.....the appropriate appellations....'liberal', 'Nazi', 'fascist', loathsome, impure and unnatural.

 

[there4eyeM]

Ahh...
is that your statement of renunciation or absolutism?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ahh...
is that your statement of renunciation or absolutism?

Did you get that?

Disagree....and the consequence is death. Such is the view of every totalitarian regime.
Hence.....the appropriate appellations....'liberal', 'Nazi', 'fascist', loathsome, impure and unnatural.


Why would you pretend to ignore that?

 

[there4eyeM]

I get that you are a joke on yourself. Did you not understand the post you seem to be responding to? You and your brethren are the absolutists.
Absolutists of all feather are anathema to liberty of thought. Right, left, up, down, azure, Bolshevik, monarchist, Ayatollah, religious fundamentalist....

 

[PoliticalChic]

I get that you are a joke on yourself. Did you not understand the post you seem to be responding to? You and your brethren are the absolutists.
Absolutists of all feather are anathema to liberty of thought. Right, left, up, down, azure, Bolshevik, monarchist, Ayatollah, religious fundamentalist....

Why would you pretend to ignore that?

That was rhetorical.

One would do their best to turn a blind eye to facts that obliterate their closely held worldview.

Disagree....and the consequence is death. Such is the view of every totalitarian regime.
Hence.....the appropriate appellations....'liberal', 'Nazi', 'fascist', loathsome, impure and unnatural.




Liberal, Progressive, socialist, Nazi, fascist, communist....
Which of these ideologies are defenders of religious, political, and economic freedom, and recognize the individual as the most important element of society?


That's right....none of them.

Hence.....the appropriate appellations....'liberal', 'Nazi', 'fascist', loathsome, impure and unnatural.

 

[there4eyeM]

Word salad.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

all of which is irrelevant, idiota. and therein lies your fail.

but i think it's cute that you can't distinguish between a cut and paste queen and someone who's told you the status of the law.

what people said over 200 years ago is lovely....but ultimately not relevant.

Is that why you idiots quote a fucking letter by Thomas Jefferson like it is a Supreme Court ruling?

Actually you’re the idiot, because what’s being quoted is a Supreme Court ruling.

In case you missed it:

“[T]he First Amendment's language, properly interpreted, had erected a wall of separation between Church and State.”

Illinois ex rel. McCollum v. Board of Education of School District

Jefferson wrote a letter in the 1940s?

Are you retarded?

At most they used the letter(erroneously) to justify their position, and that means nothing when it comes to the lawful authority of the letter itself.

Yes, they are retarded.......that much is abundantly clear.

But, let's just get clear on this one.

1. A left-wing diploma mill product makes claims about what the founders wanted.....
2. She get's her ass handed to her over her claim (that she tries to back up by making up stuff about what other people say).
3. She calls on her moron boyfriend C_Clayton_Jones to bail her out.
4. He shows up and starts using SCOTUS Decisions From 1947 to support these claims about the founders.

Dispute the connection and all you hear is that it is irrelevant and the right won't acknowledged case law.

Which was never the case. Nobody on this thread said that case law did not apply.

But somehow this is supposed to support the moronic idea "wanted religious nutters as far away from government as possible".

It's comical and, at the same time, sad.

Now, I suggest you go back and read through the post....

What you'll find is that Jillihag, the self-proclaimed legal expert, can't make an argument to save her worthless life. She rarely posts more than two lines and, almost invariably, her little turds contain two or three words from her 100 word vocabulary....nutter, wingnut, troll.

I proved that the Founders chose securalism but in typical PC fashion, you chose to ignore it.

What can be shown is that the Founders chose not to provide federal support to any one religion.

How that translates into secularism.....best of luck.

The post you quoted still stands.

Jillihag does not make arguments.

Now, if you want to quote a post of mine where I say they somehow chose religion...and then wrote the first amendment...I'd be very curious.