Science Losing the Battle to ID

-Cp

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2004
2,911
362
48
Earth
Science losing war over evolution?
Screening airs evolution versus intelligent design debate
By Alvin Powell
Harvard News Office

This just in from the front lines of the battle between evolution and intelligent design: evolution is losing.

That's the assessment of Randy Olson, a Harvard-trained evolutionary biologist turned filmmaker who explored the debate in a new film, "Flock of Dodos: The Evolution - Intelligent Design Circus," which was screened Monday (Feb. 6) at the Harvard Museum of Natural History.

Featuring Harvard faculty as well as scenes shot within the museum, the 90-minute film strikes a humorous tone as it explores the debate, poking a bit of fun at both intelligent design and the scientific community.

Though Olson is obviously on the side of evolution, he exposes the shortcomings of both sides. He portrays intelligent designers as energetic, likeable people who compensate for their shaky theory's shortcomings through organization, personal appeal, and money. Scientists, on the other hand, squander their factual edge through indifference and poor communication skills.

But Olson said there's something deeper than the surface face-off between those on the front lines. The efforts to teach intelligent design in the schools is backed by media-savvy, well-financed organizations like the Discovery Institute that aren't afraid to hire high-powered public relations firms to advance their cause.

And, though the position of evolution supporters has been upheld by the U.S. courts - most recently last year in the Dover, Penn., case - Olson predicted that the battle isn't over.

"What's going on is not being called 'a culture discussion,' it's being called 'a culture war,'" Olson said in a panel discussion after the screening.

The film is centered on the debate over teaching evolution in the schools of Olson's home state of Kansas and also covers the Dover, Penn., case.

Despite his scientific background, Olson handles intelligent design proponents gently throughout the film, giving them a chance to air their views. He offers some anti-design examples, like the fact that a rabbit's digestive tract is designed such that vegetation breaks down in a portion that comes after the part that absorbs nutrients, forcing rabbits to digest their food twice to get any value from the food. Rabbits do this by eating pellets that they've excreted to pass them through a second time, prompting the film to ask, "Where's the intelligent design in this?"

But rather than offering a detailed explanation of evolution or a point-by-point rebuttal of intelligent design, "Flock of Dodos" probes how it is that, 150 years after Darwin published his theories and 80 years after the Scopes Monkey Trial, a debate over evolution is raging in this country.

Though he concludes that intelligent design is a theory that has stalled at what he calls the "intuition stage," Olson says in "Flock of Dodos" that it still appears to have the upper hand.

The movie includes several shots of the inside of the Harvard Museum of Natural History, most recognizably the whale skeleton hanging from the ceiling, complete with remnant pelvic bones attesting to a time when the whale's ancestors had legs.

The movie also includes several Harvard-trained scientists, as well as faculty members Karel Liem, the Henry Bryant Bigelow Professor of Ichthyology, and James Hanken, professor of biology and director of the Museum of Comparative Zoology.

Olson received his doctorate from Harvard in 1984 and was a professor at the University of New Hampshire from 1988 until 1994, when he left the university shortly after receiving tenure to attend film school at the University of Southern California.

Olson participated in a panel discussion after the film with James McCarthy, Alexander Agassiz Professor of Biological Oceanography, and New York Times science writer Cordelia Dean. The panel was moderated by Douglas Starr, co-director for Boston University's Center for Science and Medical Journalism.

Dean said the debate has remained alive because the scientific community has failed to make the case for evolution to the ordinary person. That is at least partly due to neglect, she said.

"They often see no necessity to do so, and our society as a whole suffers for it," Dean said.

McCarthy said that may be because of the nature of the scientific subculture itself. Scientists are discouraged from drawing too bold conclusions from their research and from not mentioning sometimes multiple caveats on their findings, traits that make it difficult to craft and deliver a clear, persuasive message to the public.

"It's so counter to our training as scientists to give a flip answer or to give an answer without all the caveats," McCarthy said.

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/02.09/13-dodo.html
 
But Olson said there's something deeper than the surface face-off between those on the front lines. The efforts to teach intelligent design in the schools is backed by media-savvy, well-financed organizations like the Discovery Institute that aren't afraid to hire high-powered public relations firms to advance their cause...

Dean said the debate has remained alive because the scientific community has failed to make the case for evolution to the ordinary person. That is at least partly due to neglect, she said.

Yeah, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that most Americans believe in God, and at the very least, want to give Him credit for evolution. :rolleyes:
 
mom4 said:
Yeah, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that most Americans believe in God, and at the very least, want to give Him Credit[/B] for evolution. :rolleyes:

no way is god a guy......only a woman would go to all this trouble
 
manu1959 said:
no way is god a guy......only a woman would go to all this trouble
You know what's so ironic is that I believe god is a woman. There's a joke behind my reason, but I don believe that...

But yeah, I think it's sad ID is getting any support.
 
Maybe they should teach "intelligent design" along with science in the schools. Every once in a while the teacher could interrupt the science and state, "Of course many people around the world believe a great variety of gods had a hand in creation". Nothing more is needed. Then get back to science. If the teacher says it at least once a week that should be enough.
 
Nuc said:
Maybe they should teach "intelligent design" along with science in the schools. Every once in a while the teacher could interrupt the science and state, "Of course many people around the world believe a great variety of gods had a hand in creation". Nothing more is needed. Then get back to science. If the teacher says it at least once a week that should be enough.

Yeah, that would be a bit better than what we have now. You could also add a single lesson on the holes in the theory. You don't have to teach all the alternatives in that lesson, just a lesson detailing the scientific criticism for evolution and spontaneous creation.
 
rtwngAvngr said:
Why don't you examine this with an open mind? Do you have proof there's no god. Could you share it?
The existance of God can neither be proven nor disproven, which is why the question of his existance has no place in science. I've made this point numerous times so far, I'm beginning to think some people just can't read.
 
Nuc said:
Maybe they should teach "intelligent design" along with science in the schools. Every once in a while the teacher could interrupt the science and state, "Of course many people around the world believe a great variety of gods had a hand in creation". Nothing more is needed. Then get back to science. If the teacher says it at least once a week that should be enough.
Actually, this is about all that some proponents of ID want to do.
 
mom4 said:
Actually, this is about all that some proponents of ID want to do.

"All" they want to do is teach non-science in a science class and warp our children's understanding of science, which will inevitably contribute to our fall as a superpower.

Not to mention the fact that any competent person can see that ID is merely religion in disguise, and teaching religion in public schools is forbidden by the Constitution.
 
SpidermanTuba said:
teaching religion in public schools is forbidden by the Constitution.

hey dude link me up to that section of the constitution

hey wow check this a state run state funded university in the bastion of liberal berkeley teach religion at a public schooll....http://ls.berkeley.edu/ugis/religiousstudies/

yet more lies from the lsu man

oh my god it gets worse ...the largest public university in loseranna teaches religion and is funded by state tax dollars .......Located at the largest public university in Louisiana, the Religious Studies curriculum at LSU ...... http://www.artsci.lsu.edu/phil/RSHome.html

:asshole:
 
Science deals with matters of fact, and or observations about the world. On that basis alone it does not stand to reason that we should teach about ID or Creationism of any type in ANY science class room. The entire nature of creation is speculative at the very least, and is best left to debates between theologians and individual families passing on the beliefs of their choosing. At the same time though, we would be gravely mistaken to start teaching our children that evolution is merely a theory. I do not care what you believe in, with regards to the origins of humans, but evolution on some scale is a FACT of the world that we live in. Without evolution, we would not be fighting with an increasing resistance to antibiotics by bacteria. We would not have to reinvent our pesticides every few years to combat the pesticide resistant insects.

Evolutionary theory needs to be understood by the public, and I don't care if you pretext the unit with a, "Evolutionary Theory explains many principles about the modern world, and is therefore considered a crucial component to understanding biological mechanisms. That given, many people have their own beliefs regarding the origins of life, and evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life on Earth. It is however a FACT of biology and science, and is therefore taught in science classes."

Most people are completely foiled by the idea that Evolution sets in stone the origins of life on earth. It DOES NOT. EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINS OF LIFE ON EARTH. Instead it says, at some point life appeared, and then evolution kicked in place. It is entirely possible that God, Allah, The Flying Monster, The Pink Elephant, created evolution as a mechanism for advancing life, as a test to our faith. Be that as it may, it is crucial that everyone understand the importance of this concept.
 
The pivotal question in the debate between ID and atheistic evolution is: Is it science? Atheistic evolutionists will answer with a resounding “No!” While ID proponents respond, “Of course it is.” Thus it behooves us to investigate the definition of “science.”

The American Heritage dictionary defines science as:
sci•ence (s ns)
n.
1.
a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.


The NAS states that "cience is a particular way of knowing about the world … [whose] explanations are limited to those based on observations that can be substantiated by other scientists" and is a "quest for understanding" to find "better explanations for the causes of natural phenomena". But it goes on to state that "the job of science is to provide plausible natural explanations for natural phenomena."
(Science and Creationism A view from the National Academy of Sciences, 2nd edition, National Academy Press, 1999)

ID proponents are puzzled by the arbitrary inclusion of the phrase "natural explanations." Why must this be a part of the definition? In fact, it is only in recent decades that it was deemed necessary. Throughout the history of science, scientists were free to arrive at whatever conclusions the data indicated. But now, we must arbitrarily outlaw one possible explanation BEFORE any data are even collected.

AEs urge the acceptance of the idea that ID is not observable or falsifiable. However this is not true. The data for both ID and Evolution are the same. It is merely the conclusions which differ. Therefore, ID and Evolution are equally observable. ID does have the ability to be falsified, whenever “future investigations… uncover natural laws which better explain the observed data.”

There are at least three areas in which ID can offer an explanation, where AEs are stymied: “the information contained in the genetic code”, “the origin of the first cell and replicating DNA system,” and “irreducibly complex structures.” http://acs.ucsd.edu/~idea/nasreview.htm

Scientists like Melvin Morse have found themselves the objects of scorn in the scientific community, even though they are not themselves believers in “God.” Morse investigated the nature of the near-death experience, taking care to include every physical or psychological explanation for it. His extensive work was ridiculed, not for its methodology, but for its conclusions. Morse states, “I admit that the older I get, the more important the spiritual dimension of this is to me. But I’m deliberately holding back from dealing with it. Because I know that, once I cross that line, I am no longer a scientist.” So Morse despairs of ever finding an explanation for near-death experiences. (“Spirited Away,” Randall Sullivan, published in Rolling Stone and reprinted in Reader’s Digest, Feb 2006, p.165) But why is he no longer a scientist?

Even ardent evolutionists like Richard Lewontin admit that supernatural explanations seem to be the most logical in some areas. But he refuses to submit to this, not because of investigation, data, or observation, but solely because of his personal philosophy.

‘We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.’ http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i3/admission.asp

It is obvious that the inclusion of the phrase “natural explanations” is a stumbling block to true science, stymieing investigation, and stifling debate, and that the reason for this inclusion is subjective and arbitrary, not “scientific.”
 

Forum List

Back
Top