Scandinavian countries are not socialist. they're Nordic capitalist

[JakeStarkey]

Those yelling against Nordic economic systems simply reveal a narrow minded, selfish approach that does not understand basics about capitalism, socialism, and eclectic systems based on both.

 

[sakinago]

Calling socialism by another name doesn't make it not socialism, Sport

If you give it another name then you do not have to admit there are countries where socialism is succeeding currently.

Yea, proposing plans that cost 10 trillion more than the amount of money circulating across the globe is a great idea.

America might be ready for democratic socialism. It’s not ready for the bill.

Before you try an ad hominem attack, Vox is about as left leaning as they come...

Non sequitur much?

Just because I can admit something is working in a different country does not mean I want to do it here. Partisanship makes people so damn illogical.

I can admit that the Paleo diet seems to work for people without wanting to do it for myself.

But I am glad to see you chose a source that matches your political leaning

Also I don’t think you know what a non sequitar is. You maybe could’ve claimed a strawman. My point however, and the overall point of this entire thread, is that what Bernie is calling for isn’t what the Nordic countries he points too are. Bernie is a socialist who bashes capitalism, the Nordic countries are capitalist countries.

An example of a non sequitur would be. Jane is happy today, Jane is happy because she won 10 dollars from the lottery. When in reality Jane is happy because she got engaged that day. Not seeing how I made that same mistake.

It might be you that does not know what a Non Sequitur is...

a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.

your conclusion that I supported democratic socialism was a conclusion that did not logically follow from my statement...

It doesn’t follow? Premise 1: Bernie points to Nordic countries as socialism working. Premise 2: They, Nordic countries, are not socialist countries (thread topic). Premise 3: Bernie also calls for plans that will cost 218 trillion dollars over 30 years, 4 times the actual amount of money on the planet. Conclusion: Not a good idea, and Bernie is either a liar using class warfare for his own gain, or a blind ideologue trying to shove his square ideology into a circular hole by any means necassary.

I’d say that follows.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If you give it another name then you do not have to admit there are countries where socialism is succeeding currently.

Yea, proposing plans that cost 10 trillion more than the amount of money circulating across the globe is a great idea.

America might be ready for democratic socialism. It’s not ready for the bill.

Before you try an ad hominem attack, Vox is about as left leaning as they come...

Non sequitur much?

Just because I can admit something is working in a different country does not mean I want to do it here. Partisanship makes people so damn illogical.

I can admit that the Paleo diet seems to work for people without wanting to do it for myself.

But I am glad to see you chose a source that matches your political leaning

Also I don’t think you know what a non sequitar is. You maybe could’ve claimed a strawman. My point however, and the overall point of this entire thread, is that what Bernie is calling for isn’t what the Nordic countries he points too are. Bernie is a socialist who bashes capitalism, the Nordic countries are capitalist countries.

An example of a non sequitur would be. Jane is happy today, Jane is happy because she won 10 dollars from the lottery. When in reality Jane is happy because she got engaged that day. Not seeing how I made that same mistake.

It might be you that does not know what a Non Sequitur is...

a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.

your conclusion that I supported democratic socialism was a conclusion that did not logically follow from my statement...

It doesn’t follow? Premise 1: Bernie points to Nordic countries as socialism working. Premise 2: They, Nordic countries, are not socialist countries (thread topic). Premise 3: Bernie also calls for plans that will cost 218 trillion dollars over 30 years, 4 times the actual amount of money on the planet. Conclusion: Not a good idea, and Bernie is either a liar using class warfare for his own gain, or a blind ideologue trying to shove his square ideology into a circular hole by any means necassary.

I’d say that follows.

Nope, your conclusion that I support democratic socialism does not follow from what I said

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If you give it another name then you do not have to admit there are countries where socialism is succeeding currently.

Yea, proposing plans that cost 10 trillion more than the amount of money circulating across the globe is a great idea.

America might be ready for democratic socialism. It’s not ready for the bill.

Before you try an ad hominem attack, Vox is about as left leaning as they come...

Non sequitur much?

Just because I can admit something is working in a different country does not mean I want to do it here. Partisanship makes people so damn illogical.

I can admit that the Paleo diet seems to work for people without wanting to do it for myself.

But I am glad to see you chose a source that matches your political leaning

Oh god...again the people calling for socialism are the ones who don’t even know what socialism is. You can’t point to a pelican flying and say “see told you pigs could fly.” Nordic countries are capatilistic countries. Capatalistic countries with bigger SOCIAL PROGRAMS, and higher taxes. The US also has big social programs, both are not SOCIALIST countries. By YOUR metric of what constitutes a socialist country, every single country with a social welfare program would be a socialist country. Which would be almost every single country in the world with the exception of MAYBE dumpster fire governments like Somalia.

Even in the one example in Norway where they nationalized the oil industry, the government is not to get involved with how the business is run. They are just shareholders of the still very much profit seeking oil industry, they just want a piece of the action.

It is not my metric, it is the metric used daily by the far right people to scare people into voting for them.

By your metric, even Venezuela is not a socialist country as they have a global capitalist market system and most of their enterprises are privately-owned and profit seeking.

It is your metric, what other evidence are you pointing too outside of the fact that they have bigger social programs? And yes Venezuela fits into the socialism box, because they took control of and RAN entire INDUSTRIES they deemed “necessary” like oil, media, healthcare, banks, and pretty much any of the big dogs in Venezuela. Nordic countries do not take over and RUN entire industries. The closest example is Norway with its oil, it’s still not run by the government, government is just a shareholder. Venezuela is pretty damn close to what Bernie calls for. Venezuela also states that they are a socialistic country, the Nordic countries do not. Cuba is just a stronger example of a socialistic country, closer to the communist spectrum.

Actually, my metric is that there are no true socialist countries in the world today. But going by the metric being used in political discussions around the country and the rhetoric by our elected officials, the Nordic countries do indeed qualify as "socialist" since Greece is often pointed to as a socialist country.

 

[sakinago]

Yea, proposing plans that cost 10 trillion more than the amount of money circulating across the globe is a great idea.

America might be ready for democratic socialism. It’s not ready for the bill.

Before you try an ad hominem attack, Vox is about as left leaning as they come...

Non sequitur much?

Just because I can admit something is working in a different country does not mean I want to do it here. Partisanship makes people so damn illogical.

I can admit that the Paleo diet seems to work for people without wanting to do it for myself.

But I am glad to see you chose a source that matches your political leaning

Oh god...again the people calling for socialism are the ones who don’t even know what socialism is. You can’t point to a pelican flying and say “see told you pigs could fly.” Nordic countries are capatilistic countries. Capatalistic countries with bigger SOCIAL PROGRAMS, and higher taxes. The US also has big social programs, both are not SOCIALIST countries. By YOUR metric of what constitutes a socialist country, every single country with a social welfare program would be a socialist country. Which would be almost every single country in the world with the exception of MAYBE dumpster fire governments like Somalia.

Even in the one example in Norway where they nationalized the oil industry, the government is not to get involved with how the business is run. They are just shareholders of the still very much profit seeking oil industry, they just want a piece of the action.

It is not my metric, it is the metric used daily by the far right people to scare people into voting for them.

By your metric, even Venezuela is not a socialist country as they have a global capitalist market system and most of their enterprises are privately-owned and profit seeking.

It is your metric, what other evidence are you pointing too outside of the fact that they have bigger social programs? And yes Venezuela fits into the socialism box, because they took control of and RAN entire INDUSTRIES they deemed “necessary” like oil, media, healthcare, banks, and pretty much any of the big dogs in Venezuela. Nordic countries do not take over and RUN entire industries. The closest example is Norway with its oil, it’s still not run by the government, government is just a shareholder. Venezuela is pretty damn close to what Bernie calls for. Venezuela also states that they are a socialistic country, the Nordic countries do not. Cuba is just a stronger example of a socialistic country, closer to the communist spectrum.

Actually, my metric is that there are no true socialist countries in the world today. But going by the metric being used in political discussions around the country and the rhetoric by our elected officials, the Nordic countries do indeed qualify as "socialist" since Greece is often pointed to as a socialist country.

And rhetoric can be faulty, that’s the whole point of this thread. Glad you finally caught up. Bernie’s rhetoric is the equivalent to pointing to a pelican and saying “I told you pigs could fly”. You believed Bernie when he said pigs could fly. The point of this thread is “that’s not a pig.” Examples of pigs are Venezuela and Cuba. Bernie points to the pelican, and says let’s implement plans that cost more money than is currently circulating the globe, it’ll work.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And rhetoric can be faulty, that’s the whole point of this thread. Glad you finally caught up. Bernie’s rhetoric is the equivalent to pointing to a pelican and saying “I told you pigs could fly”. You believed Bernie when he said pigs could fly. The point of this thread is “that’s not a pig.” Examples of pigs are Venezuela and Cuba. Bernie points to the pelican, and says let’s implement plans that cost more money than is currently circulating the globe, it’ll work.

I am confused as to where you get the idea that I believed Bernie. What in my post gave you that idea? Or did you just pull it out of your ass so you would have something to bash me over the head with?

 

[sakinago]

Yea, proposing plans that cost 10 trillion more than the amount of money circulating across the globe is a great idea.

America might be ready for democratic socialism. It’s not ready for the bill.

Before you try an ad hominem attack, Vox is about as left leaning as they come...

Non sequitur much?

Just because I can admit something is working in a different country does not mean I want to do it here. Partisanship makes people so damn illogical.

I can admit that the Paleo diet seems to work for people without wanting to do it for myself.

But I am glad to see you chose a source that matches your political leaning

Also I don’t think you know what a non sequitar is. You maybe could’ve claimed a strawman. My point however, and the overall point of this entire thread, is that what Bernie is calling for isn’t what the Nordic countries he points too are. Bernie is a socialist who bashes capitalism, the Nordic countries are capitalist countries.

An example of a non sequitur would be. Jane is happy today, Jane is happy because she won 10 dollars from the lottery. When in reality Jane is happy because she got engaged that day. Not seeing how I made that same mistake.

It might be you that does not know what a Non Sequitur is...

a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.

your conclusion that I supported democratic socialism was a conclusion that did not logically follow from my statement...

It doesn’t follow? Premise 1: Bernie points to Nordic countries as socialism working. Premise 2: They, Nordic countries, are not socialist countries (thread topic). Premise 3: Bernie also calls for plans that will cost 218 trillion dollars over 30 years, 4 times the actual amount of money on the planet. Conclusion: Not a good idea, and Bernie is either a liar using class warfare for his own gain, or a blind ideologue trying to shove his square ideology into a circular hole by any means necassary.

I’d say that follows.

Nope, your conclusion that I support democratic socialism does not follow from what I said

No your conclusion was, see socialism can work, and no one wants to admit it. If your full, poorly implied conclusion was, socialism can work but I don’t agree with democratic socialism...A. I don’t see why you would post what you posted, B. That would be a very weak argument for a strawman since I misrepresented your very very poorly implied point/conclusion. C. My whole point has been Nordic countries are not socialist countries...sooo

 

[JakeStarkey]

GG does not believe Bernie.

Sakinago, please stay with real facts.

 

[sakinago]

And rhetoric can be faulty, that’s the whole point of this thread. Glad you finally caught up. Bernie’s rhetoric is the equivalent to pointing to a pelican and saying “I told you pigs could fly”. You believed Bernie when he said pigs could fly. The point of this thread is “that’s not a pig.” Examples of pigs are Venezuela and Cuba. Bernie points to the pelican, and says let’s implement plans that cost more money than is currently circulating the globe, it’ll work.

I am confused as to where you get the idea that I believed Bernie. What in my post gave you that idea? Or did you just pull it out of your ass so you would have something to bash me over the head with?

Again, your initial post was something like “calling Nordic countries something other than socialist countries is what people do who don’t want to admit socialism works.” Bernie is the one who often points to the Nordic countries, that’s painfully obvious. I don’t know how else I am supposed to assume that you don’t agree with Bernie from your initial post.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

No your conclusion was, see socialism can work, and no one wants to admit it. If your full, poorly implied conclusion was, socialism can work but I don’t agree with democratic socialism...A. I don’t see why you would post what you posted, B. That would be a very weak argument for a strawman since I misrepresented your very very poorly implied point/conclusion. C. My whole point has been Nordic countries are not socialist countries...sooo

Once again, based upon how the term socialism is applied in this country today, they are indeed socialist countries. Greece is pointed to on almost a daily basis as a socialist country that failed, but Greece is no more socialist than the Nordic countries.

If you go back to the post I replied to 'Calling socialism by another name doesn't make it not socialism, Sport" you will see what I am referring to. That it does not fit the strict definition is rather irrelevant taking into account this is a political discussion board.

Going by the strict definition, there are no socialist countries in the world today, not even your two examples.

 

[Muhammed]

They rely on a system known as Nordic capitalism (or the Nordic model). You can favor their method if you want, but at least take the time to learn about the system you're trying to evangelize.

Calling socialism by another name doesn't make it not socialism, Sport

They simply are not socialist countries, period.

They are liberal democracies with market economies.

In socialist countries the means of production and distribution of goods is controlled by the state.

In which country in the world today are means of production and distribution of goods controlled totally by the state?

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

 

[sakinago]

GG does not believe Bernie.

Sakinago, please stay with real facts.

They rely on a system known as Nordic capitalism (or the Nordic model). You can favor their method if you want, but at least take the time to learn about the system you're trying to evangelize.

Calling socialism by another name doesn't make it not socialism, Sport

If you give it another name then you do not have to admit there are countries where socialism is succeeding currently.

How am I supposed to arrive to the conclusion that GG doesn’t believe Bernie? Bernie who points to Nordic countries as examples of socialist countries??? There is no reasonable explanation to why I should come to the conclusion that GG doesn’t like Bernie.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

They rely on a system known as Nordic capitalism (or the Nordic model). You can favor their method if you want, but at least take the time to learn about the system you're trying to evangelize.

Calling socialism by another name doesn't make it not socialism, Sport

They simply are not socialist countries, period.

They are liberal democracies with market economies.

In socialist countries the means of production and distribution of goods is controlled by the state.

In which country in the world today are means of production and distribution of goods controlled totally by the state?

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Now, that might be a good example. Though I thought they were Communist, not Socialist.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

GG does not believe Bernie.

Sakinago, please stay with real facts.

They rely on a system known as Nordic capitalism (or the Nordic model). You can favor their method if you want, but at least take the time to learn about the system you're trying to evangelize.

Calling socialism by another name doesn't make it not socialism, Sport

If you give it another name then you do not have to admit there are countries where socialism is succeeding currently.

How am I supposed to arrive to the conclusion that GG doesn’t believe Bernie? Bernie who points to Nordic countries as examples of socialist countries??? There is no reasonable explanation to why I should come to the conclusion that GG doesn’t like Bernie.

The Nordic countries are given as examples of socialist countries along with many European nations on a daily basis by our elected leaders, including Trump. So, by this logic Trump believes Bernie also.

 

[sakinago]

No your conclusion was, see socialism can work, and no one wants to admit it. If your full, poorly implied conclusion was, socialism can work but I don’t agree with democratic socialism...A. I don’t see why you would post what you posted, B. That would be a very weak argument for a strawman since I misrepresented your very very poorly implied point/conclusion. C. My whole point has been Nordic countries are not socialist countries...sooo

Once again, based upon how the term socialism is applied in this country today, they are indeed socialist countries. Greece is pointed to on almost a daily basis as a socialist country that failed, but Greece is no more socialist than the Nordic countries.

If you go back to the post I replied to 'Calling socialism by another name doesn't make it not socialism, Sport" you will see what I am referring to. That it does not fit the strict definition is rather irrelevant taking into account this is a political discussion board.

Going by the strict definition, there are no socialist countries in the world today, not even your two examples.

There are, it’s when government takes over and controls entire industries, like venezuela and Cuba.The strict socialism you’re referring too is just communism. It doesn’t mean every industry, people can be cobblers with privately owned business. It’s just the industries government deems necessary. Socialism is a country that says “we need to take over the railroads, banks, energy, whatever.” Having programs like single payer healthcare is not socialism, that’s just a social program. Having a socialized system would be having every aspect of the medical industry run by government, hospitals, R and D, etc.

 

[sakinago]

GG does not believe Bernie.

Sakinago, please stay with real facts.

They rely on a system known as Nordic capitalism (or the Nordic model). You can favor their method if you want, but at least take the time to learn about the system you're trying to evangelize.

Calling socialism by another name doesn't make it not socialism, Sport

If you give it another name then you do not have to admit there are countries where socialism is succeeding currently.

How am I supposed to arrive to the conclusion that GG doesn’t believe Bernie? Bernie who points to Nordic countries as examples of socialist countries??? There is no reasonable explanation to why I should come to the conclusion that GG doesn’t like Bernie.

The Nordic countries are given as examples of socialist countries along with many European nations on a daily basis by our elected leaders, including Trump. So, by this logic Trump believes Bernie also.

They’re both idiots, and both ran for president...

 

[JakeStarkey]

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

What makes it’s not socialism, is the fact that all but one of those countries is ranked higher in economic freedom than the US is.

Only Denmark is

List of countries by economic freedom - Wikipedia

 

[sakinago]

GG does not believe Bernie.

Sakinago, please stay with real facts.

They rely on a system known as Nordic capitalism (or the Nordic model). You can favor their method if you want, but at least take the time to learn about the system you're trying to evangelize.

Calling socialism by another name doesn't make it not socialism, Sport

If you give it another name then you do not have to admit there are countries where socialism is succeeding currently.

How am I supposed to arrive to the conclusion that GG doesn’t believe Bernie? Bernie who points to Nordic countries as examples of socialist countries??? There is no reasonable explanation to why I should come to the conclusion that GG doesn’t like Bernie.

The Nordic countries are given as examples of socialist countries along with many European nations on a daily basis by our elected leaders, including Trump. So, by this logic Trump believes Bernie also.

Let me re-phrase. Ones an idiot who got elected because the left took off their gloves a long time ago, and the candidates on the right would just stand in the corner with their hands up while the fans would get angry why they aren’t punching back. Until trump came and would punch back. He just kind of sticks his arms out straight and spins in circles in the ring until he hits something.

The other is a guy who knows he can play off the youth who put themselves into massive debt from the universities. Universities that are mainly just ridiculously expensive degree mills that aren’t worth it in a lot of cases, that prey on kids who don’t really know what they want, or what to do. These are the same universities that we, as a society, have encouraged them to go to. They get out of school, get hit with student loan bills, and say something smells fishy here, this isn’t right. Enter Bernie Sanders Stage left: who says the system is rigged against you (it kind of is, but not the way he claims) and we’re gonna pay for your student loans. That’s extremely enticing, especially for someone who just got endoctrinated by all their humanities professors, who got duped even harder than most by universities, and now work for the very same unseen oppressors.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

1. How Sweden created a model economy
   sweden.se/.../how-sweden-created-a-model-economy
   Sweden’s economy was sometimes dismissed as ‘socialist’, but now it is held up as an example of capitalism done right. How does Sweden do it?
   
   
2. The Economy Of Sweden - WorldAtlas.com
   www.worldatlas.com/.../the-economy-of-sweden.html
   Sweden has a developed export-oriented economy heavily dependent on timber, hydropower, and iron ore.

A country of mostly white Christians the size of New Jersey with less population than Brooklyn and Queens is your model?