Saudi prince: Maybe the Palestinians should’ve taken the deals they were offered

[flacaltenn]

“In the last several decades the Palestinian leadership has missed one opportunity after the other and rejected all the peace proposals it was given. It is about time the Palestinians take the proposals and agree to come to the negotiations table or shut up and stop complaining.”

MBS also made two other points on the Palestinian issue during the meeting:

1. He made clear the Palestinian issue was not a top priority for the Saudi government or Saudi public opinion. MBS said Saudi Arabia “has much more urgent and important issues to deal with” like confronting Iran’s influence in the region.
2. Regardless of all his criticism of the Palestinian leadership, MBS also made clear that in order for Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states to normalize relations with Israel there will have to be significant progress on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

Back to the OP --- New Saudi Prince weighs in the same comment I've been making. The ball is in the Palestinians' court. His exact words are repeated above.

Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon have BIGGER issues right now with Iranian hegemony in the region. And they all have little confidence that the Palestinians can ORGANIZE a nationalist movement that results in a State because (in his words) .... "the Palestinian Leadership has missed one opportunity after another and rejected the peace proposals it was given".. Sound familiar???

Exactly WHO are "the Palestinian leadership" right now? If you can't answer that -- you're not understanding the problem...

 

[Indeependent]

The blockade was the RESULT of their Civil War for control of Gaza. And Hamas rising to power there. Did NOT come with the original deal in a true blockade form. It's not a UNILATERAL blockade either. Egypt has similar policies in place at their border with Gaza and is fighting ISIS and other radical groups in the Sinai..

It wasn't a civil war.

You need to read up.

Egypt has a Gaza blockade, P F Asshat.

And we had a coup in Egypt to make sure that happens.

You’ve never been to the Middle East, Asshat.
Once again, Asshat, why are Gazans sneaking into Egypt to murder Egyptians?

Link?

I always keep links from news stories.
The difference between us is that I read news stories and don’t have my head up my ass.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It wasn't a civil war.

You need to read up.

Egypt has a Gaza blockade, P F Asshat.

And we had a coup in Egypt to make sure that happens.

You’ve never been to the Middle East, Asshat.
Once again, Asshat, why are Gazans sneaking into Egypt to murder Egyptians?

Link?

I always keep links from news stories.
The difference between us is that I read news stories and don’t have my head up my ass.

Nice duck.

 

[Indeependent]

Egypt has a Gaza blockade, P F Asshat.

And we had a coup in Egypt to make sure that happens.

You’ve never been to the Middle East, Asshat.
Once again, Asshat, why are Gazans sneaking into Egypt to murder Egyptians?

Link?

I always keep links from news stories.
The difference between us is that I read news stories and don’t have my head up my ass.

Nice duck.

Just like Egypt and SA are ducking?
Your precious murderers are exposed.

 

[xyz]

Saudi prince: Maybe the Palestinians should've taken the deals they were offered
Ed MorrisseyPosted at 12:01 pm on April 30, 2018
Or maybe they should stop sucking up to Iran. That’s the real subtext of the surprising rhetoric coming from Mohammed bin Salman, the young crown prince of Saudi Arabia who’s rewriting the Middle East script after seizing power in a family feud last year. Barak Ravid reports for Axios that MBS, as he’s colloquially known, told representatives of Jewish groups last month that while Saudi Arabia still wants a just and lasting settlement for the Palestinians, they could have gotten that themselves.

Now, MBS says, it’s time to make a deal or “shut up and stop complaining”:


According to my sources, the Saudi Crown Prince told the Jewish leaders:

“In the last several decades the Palestinian leadership has missed one opportunity after the other and rejected all the peace proposals it was given. It is about time the Palestinians take the proposals and agree to come to the negotiations table or shut up and stop complaining.”

MBS also made two other points on the Palestinian issue during the meeting:

1. He made clear the Palestinian issue was not a top priority for the Saudi government or Saudi public opinion. MBS said Saudi Arabia “has much more urgent and important issues to deal with” like confronting Iran’s influence in the region.
2. Regardless of all his criticism of the Palestinian leadership, MBS also made clear that in order for Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states to normalize relations with Israel there will have to be significant progress on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

Under MBS’ leadership since taking effective power in June 2017, Saudi Arabia has aligned itself far more with the West. Decrees from the royal palace are now allowing women to drive and to dress in something other than black abayas and niqabs while in public. MBS has opened cinemas in Saudi Arabia for the first time in decades. He’s either cleaning up corruption or purging dissidents and hardliners, but either way MBS is making sure that he directs public policy for Saudi Arabia for the next several decades, and directs it to come closer to the West.

The main intention of all this appears to be an effort to isolate Iran, which has become an existential threat to Sunni power in the region. Our invasion and then abandonment of Iraq didn’t help in that effort, which is why even the previous crown prince took a distinctly cool approach to Barack Obama at the end of his presidency. MBS knows that he’ll have to modernize in order to make Western nations comfortable with any partnership for the region, and that the glut on oil markets means that the Saudis can’t simply use energy as leverage any more.

Unfortunately for the Palestinians, they’ve been playing footsie with Tehran more than Riyadh, and now they’re going to pay for it. Choosing sides has consequences, and with the stakes as high as they are now, the Saudis see the Palestinians as dispensable. They’d rather ally openly with Israel to keep Iran at bay, and the best way to do that is for the Palestinians to take a deal and get on with their lives.

Unfortunately again for the Palestinians, they still can’t decide what they want, or even how to discuss it:

A powerful but rarely convened assembly that calls itself the Palestinian “supreme authority” meets for the first time in 22 years on Monday, but boycotts and rifts suggest it will struggle to achieve its stated goal of unity against Israel and the United States.

President Mahmoud Abbas is expected to use the four-day Palestinian National Council (PNC) meeting to renew his legitimacy and to install loyalists in powerful positions to begin shaping his legacy.

Abbas has billed the meeting of the Palestinian National Council (PNC), the de facto parliament of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, as a chance to establish a united front against Israel and the United States, after President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

The hardline Islamists in Hamas and Islamic Jihad, both of which are aligned with Iran, have boycotted the event, ostensibly because its West Bank location puts them at risk of arrest by Israel. But Reuters notes that three factions of the PLO are also boycotting, in part because they believe Abbas hasn’t been open enough to working with IJ or Hamas. The event is seen as an anachronism by other Palestinians, a desperate attempt by Abbas to emphasize his legitimacy as the Palestinian Authority leader while being largely ignored by all sides.

The Saudis have had enough. Perhaps Abbas should take MBS’ advice and cut a deal while he still can.

That's a good way to piss off most of the Arab world and perform a heavy licking on Drumpf's butt for more weapons.

 

[member]

Saudi prince: Maybe the Palestinians should've taken the deals they were offered
Ed MorrisseyPosted at 12:01 pm on April 30, 2018
Or maybe they should stop sucking up to Iran. That’s the real subtext of the surprising rhetoric coming from Mohammed bin Salman, the young crown prince of Saudi Arabia who’s rewriting the Middle East script after seizing power in a family feud last year. Barak Ravid reports for Axios that MBS, as he’s colloquially known, told representatives of Jewish groups last month that while Saudi Arabia still wants a just and lasting settlement for the Palestinians, they could have gotten that themselves.

Now, MBS says, it’s time to make a deal or “shut up and stop complaining”:


According to my sources, the Saudi Crown Prince told the Jewish leaders:

“In the last several decades the Palestinian leadership has missed one opportunity after the other and rejected all the peace proposals it was given. It is about time the Palestinians take the proposals and agree to come to the negotiations table or shut up and stop complaining.”

MBS also made two other points on the Palestinian issue during the meeting:

1. He made clear the Palestinian issue was not a top priority for the Saudi government or Saudi public opinion. MBS said Saudi Arabia “has much more urgent and important issues to deal with” like confronting Iran’s influence in the region.
2. Regardless of all his criticism of the Palestinian leadership, MBS also made clear that in order for Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states to normalize relations with Israel there will have to be significant progress on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

Under MBS’ leadership since taking effective power in June 2017, Saudi Arabia has aligned itself far more with the West. Decrees from the royal palace are now allowing women to drive and to dress in something other than black abayas and niqabs while in public. MBS has opened cinemas in Saudi Arabia for the first time in decades. He’s either cleaning up corruption or purging dissidents and hardliners, but either way MBS is making sure that he directs public policy for Saudi Arabia for the next several decades, and directs it to come closer to the West.

The main intention of all this appears to be an effort to isolate Iran, which has become an existential threat to Sunni power in the region. Our invasion and then abandonment of Iraq didn’t help in that effort, which is why even the previous crown prince took a distinctly cool approach to Barack Obama at the end of his presidency. MBS knows that he’ll have to modernize in order to make Western nations comfortable with any partnership for the region, and that the glut on oil markets means that the Saudis can’t simply use energy as leverage any more.

Unfortunately for the Palestinians, they’ve been playing footsie with Tehran more than Riyadh, and now they’re going to pay for it. Choosing sides has consequences, and with the stakes as high as they are now, the Saudis see the Palestinians as dispensable. They’d rather ally openly with Israel to keep Iran at bay, and the best way to do that is for the Palestinians to take a deal and get on with their lives.

Unfortunately again for the Palestinians, they still can’t decide what they want, or even how to discuss it:

A powerful but rarely convened assembly that calls itself the Palestinian “supreme authority” meets for the first time in 22 years on Monday, but boycotts and rifts suggest it will struggle to achieve its stated goal of unity against Israel and the United States.

President Mahmoud Abbas is expected to use the four-day Palestinian National Council (PNC) meeting to renew his legitimacy and to install loyalists in powerful positions to begin shaping his legacy.

Abbas has billed the meeting of the Palestinian National Council (PNC), the de facto parliament of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, as a chance to establish a united front against Israel and the United States, after President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

The hardline Islamists in Hamas and Islamic Jihad, both of which are aligned with Iran, have boycotted the event, ostensibly because its West Bank location puts them at risk of arrest by Israel. But Reuters notes that three factions of the PLO are also boycotting, in part because they believe Abbas hasn’t been open enough to working with IJ or Hamas. The event is seen as an anachronism by other Palestinians, a desperate attempt by Abbas to emphasize his legitimacy as the Palestinian Authority leader while being largely ignored by all sides.

The Saudis have had enough. Perhaps Abbas should take MBS’ advice and cut a deal while he still can.

“In the last several decades the Palestinian leadership has missed one opportunity after the other and rejected all the peace proposals it was given. It is about time the Palestinians take the proposals and agree to come to the negotiations table or shut up and stop complaining.”

cool - plus, Saudi arabia [and Prince] stepped out into the sunlight long enough from their cave-palace to......leave the 7th century and come into the 21st century allowing "some women folk" to lift their face-drapes, and let them drive.....

wooooo-weeeeee. hot dog ! ......

 

[Billo_Really]

They HAD a functioning govt with cooperation from Israel just 10 or so years ago. With building their own security forces and instituting their own justice system. Got so damn GOOD that Israel GAVE them Gaza. Purged every Jew and every gefilte fish out of there and PROMISED to arrange for air and sea ports.

Next election -- the Palis have an open war in the streets KILLING each other over control of Gaza. Not ISRAEL destroying their govt. So maybe THEY can't do this. And the key to getting a sovereign state is to have the ARAB neighbors and Israel put one in Trust for them until they get their act together.

That's why the Arab neighbors are taking a whole new angle on this in past couple years. and THAT is what the OP is about.

That "functioning government with the cooperation of Israel" was the corrupt Fatah government that stood by and said nothing while the Israelis erected over 300 roadblocks and checkpoints on land Israel DOES NOT OWN! The restrictions in the West Bank are unacceptable. That's why the Pals voted for Hamas in a fair and democratic election. Israel didn't like the results, because the Pals wouldn't vote for Israel's *****. The only reason Israel doesn't like Hamas, is because they refuse to be Israel's *****. Soon after the election in 2006, Israel began the blockade to punish Gazans for voting for Hamas.

As for leaving Gaza, if you "effectively control" 80% of what comes in to and out of an area, you haven't left. That still satisfies the definition of an occupation. Furthermore, if you're "arranging for air and sea ports", how can you have left? Does Canada "arrange" for the airport at JFK in New York? Air and seaports in Gaza, have nothing to do with Israel and Israel has nothing to say or "arrange" in regards to them.

As far as not destroying the Hamas government, what do you think the blockade is doing? What do you think Israel launching raids into Gaza to kill members of Hamas is doing?

There is nothing to negotiate and no deals to make. Israel is in violation of international and the only option on the table is for Israel to unilaterally end the occupation. And YOU need to stop defending all the inhuman acts of aggression Israel constantly makes on a daily basis in these occupied territories.

 

[Billo_Really]

What do you mean by end the occupation?
When Israel offered 98% of the land the Palestinians demanded they turned it down. How can they end the occupation better than that!?

You can't offer what you don't have. That's not Israeli land. A home owner does not occupy his own home. He owns it. Israel needs to end the occupation by getting the **** off land that isn't theirs.

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel offered them almost everything they asked for and they refused. Subject is closed

There is nothing for Israel to offer; they just need to leave. Subject is not closed.

 

[Billo_Really]

They don’t want 98 percent; they want 100 percent, “ Right of Return” which could in time make the Israelis the minority,and demanding they have control over a possible highway between Gaza and the W. Bank which is on Israeli territory , PLUS release of Palestinian prisoners. They are deliberately making demands they know Israel Is not going to agree to .

They have a right to 100% of the land that is not Israels. As far as the road between Gaza and the WB, why don't the Israeli's make it a "toll road" and allow constant access. That would be incoming revenue, which is a good thing.

The Palestinian prisoners are in administrative detention, which is a war crime. They need to release all political prisoners and stop beating children under 12 that are in custody.

Populations under occupation cannot make demands on the occupier.

And finally, in regards to potential Jewish minority, don't blame the Pals because they **** more than you do!

 

[Billo_Really]

Obviously, "innocent" is another word you don't understand.

You can only use lethal force when your own life is threatened or the threat is imminent. Standing there throwing a rock, or burning a tire, or yelling at your wailing Iron Curtain, are not threats to your life. Standing there with a big media badge on them, is not a threat to your life.

Maybe you should re-access your bullshit notion of "innocence"?

 

[Billo_Really]

So you wanted to tell us you don't know what the word, strawman, means?

You're posing an argument we are not arguing. Whether or not I am a bigot, is not the issue. Even you thinking I am, is not the issue. So how is that NOT a strawman?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Obviously, "innocent" is another word you don't understand.

You can only use lethal force when your own life is threatened or the threat is imminent. Standing there throwing a rock, or burning a tire, or yelling at your wailing Iron Curtain, are not threats to your life. Standing there with a big media badge on them, is not a threat to your life.

Maybe you should re-access your bullshit notion of "innocence"?

You continue to set new standards for stupidity. A soldier can view an attack on his country as an attack on himself, and that means he can use deadly force whenever necessary to protect his country, in this case, to protect the fence that protects Israeli civilians from being attacked by Palestinian terrorists.

 

[toomuchtime_]

So you wanted to tell us you don't know what the word, strawman, means?

You're posing an argument we are not arguing. Whether or not I am a bigot, is not the issue. Even you thinking I am, is not the issue. So how is that NOT a strawman?

The issue is if you were not a bigot, the fact that there were some people already living in Palestine when many of the Jews arrived would not seem significant.

 

[Billo_Really]

You continue to set new standards for stupidity. A soldier can view an attack on his country as an attack on himself, and that means he can use deadly force whenever necessary to protect his country, in this case, to protect the fence that protects Israeli civilians from being attacked by Palestinian terrorists.

Throwing a rock is not an attack on your country, or your life. For someone who holds such extremist views as yourself, maybe better off living in the Weimar Republic?

BTW, its not a fence, you moron, it's a concrete wall.

 

[Billo_Really]

The issue is if you were not a bigot, the fact that there were some people already living in Palestine when many of the Jews arrived would not seem significant.

More than just some. They were the majority land owners when Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun, drove out 750,000 indigenous residents. And it is the decedents of these indigenous residents that are demanding a right to return.

And that "right to return", is central to any peace agreement. If the Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?

 

[Sixties Fan]

You continue to set new standards for stupidity. A soldier can view an attack on his country as an attack on himself, and that means he can use deadly force whenever necessary to protect his country, in this case, to protect the fence that protects Israeli civilians from being attacked by Palestinian terrorists.

Throwing a rock is not an attack on your country, or your life. For someone who holds such extremist views as yourself, maybe better off living in the Weimar Republic?

BTW, its not a fence, you moron, it's a concrete wall.

Black smoke rises from tires burned by Gaza protesters at the border with Israel, with Israeli soldiers seen in the foreground, Friday, April 13, 2018. (AP Photo/Ariel Schalit)


WHERE is that concrete wall ????

Now try to discuss the protests in the proper thread and leave this one for what it was intended for.

Saudi Prince, not the only one, thinks that the Palestinian leaders should have accepted any of the deals they were offered.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You continue to set new standards for stupidity. A soldier can view an attack on his country as an attack on himself, and that means he can use deadly force whenever necessary to protect his country, in this case, to protect the fence that protects Israeli civilians from being attacked by Palestinian terrorists.

Throwing a rock is not an attack on your country, or your life. For someone who holds such extremist views as yourself, maybe better off living in the Weimar Republic?

BTW, its not a fence, you moron, it's a concrete wall.

First it is a fence, and again you show you have no idea what you are arguing about. Second, attacking the fence is an attack on Israel because the fence prevents Palestinian terrorists from attacking Israeli civilians.

 

[Billo_Really]

First it is a fence, and again you show you have no idea what you are arguing about. Second, attacking the fence is an attack on Israel because the fence prevents Palestinian terrorists from attacking Israeli civilians.

This doesn't look like a fence to me.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The issue is if you were not a bigot, the fact that there were some people already living in Palestine when many of the Jews arrived would not seem significant.

More than just some. They were the majority land owners when Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun, drove out 750,000 indigenous residents. And it is the decedents of these indigenous residents that are demanding a right to return.

And that "right to return", is central to any peace agreement. If the Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?

lol Now you feel the need to make up more lies to try to cover up your bigotry. Your complaint was that there were Arabs there when the European Jews arrived in the early 20th, but realizing you had revealed your extreme bigotry, not you jump ahead fifty years to deflect attention from it.

No one knows how many of the Arabs were driven out or how many left of their own accord or how many fled because they were in the path of the invading Arab armies and were caught in a crossfire, but after UN resolution 194 passed, Israel opened an agency to accept applications from Arabs who had left and now wanted to return, and while the Arabs wailed loudly about being refugees, not one of them filed an application because to do so, would be to recognize the authority of the Israeli government and that would get them labeled as collaborators and get them killed. It was a tragedy for the Arabs, but one they brought on themselves, because they were as xenophobic as you seem to be and like you, the though of a Jew living next door to them drove them to violence and then to disaster. Israel kept the office to accept applications to return from the refugees open into the mid 1970's but while the Arabs wailed and moaned about wanting to return, not one of them filed an application to do so.