Saudi Arabian Woman to be lashed for Unchaperoned Court Appearance

[toomuchtime_]

A Saudi Arabian woman, Sawsan Salim, has been sentenced to 300 lashings and one and a half years in prison for filing harassment complaints about government officials and appearing in court in the northern Qasim region without a male guardian present. In 2007, Salim filed 118 harassment complaints against local officials, who allegedly mistreated her when she appeared in their offices unchaperoned, according to Business Week. Salim appeared without a male guardian because her husband, her sole male family member, was in prison at the time. She initially approached a local court in 2004, when she sought help to release her husband from prison.

The legal guardianship system in Saudi Arabia requires that women, both minors and adults, must be accompanied by a male guardian outside the home. If women wish to conduct themselves in public business, work, or to drive, they must obtain permission from or be accompanied by their male guardian, who may be her husband, father, brother, or even a minor son, according to Human Rights Watch. The Saudi Arabian government promised in June 2009 to follow United Nations suggestions to remove this restrictive system, but has not made this change.

Feminist Wire Daily Newsbriefs: U.S. and Global News Coverage

 

[mdn2000]

Too bad all the great members of this board who are so intelligent on so many aspects of the Middle East are completely silent on this thread. Maybe that just goes to show that members such as Mac69 and Kalem can only "cut and paste" and when confronted with facts they have no intelligent thought or common sense in which to add to a thread.

What is sad is Saudi Arabia is the biggest advocate of a Palestinian state for Arabs and this is part of what such a state will be.

Whats sad is this is what all Americans support through ignorance or indifference.

Saudi Arabia is pure Sunni, we got anybody on these boards calling themselves Sunni, Kalem comes to mind and whats the other one, Sunni/woman or is it Sunni man or something like that.

All those who have not posted a response here silently support the tyranny of Saudi Arabia, for those who stand silent in the face of tyranny are in fact silently supporting tyranny.

I made that up, its relevant and factual.

 

[sparky]

All those who have not posted a response here silently support the tyranny of Saudi Arabia, for those who stand silent in the face of tyranny are in fact silently supporting tyranny.

righto, we really like the way they keep their women in line.....

btw~ Is Hillary due to visit soon?

~S~

 

[P F Tinmore]

Too bad all the great members of this board who are so intelligent on so many aspects of the Middle East are completely silent on this thread. Maybe that just goes to show that members such as Mac69 and Kalem can only "cut and paste" and when confronted with facts they have no intelligent thought or common sense in which to add to a thread.

What is sad is Saudi Arabia is the biggest advocate of a Palestinian state for Arabs and this is part of what such a state will be.

Whats sad is this is what all Americans support through ignorance or indifference.

Saudi Arabia is pure Sunni, we got anybody on these boards calling themselves Sunni, Kalem comes to mind and whats the other one, Sunni/woman or is it Sunni man or something like that.

All those who have not posted a response here silently support the tyranny of Saudi Arabia, for those who stand silent in the face of tyranny are in fact silently supporting tyranny.

I made that up, its relevant and factual.

All those who have not posted a response here silently support the tyranny of Saudi Arabia, for those who stand silent in the face of tyranny are in fact silently supporting tyranny.

Amen

Silence is approval and we should not allow something like this go without public outcry. There are woman's right groups throughout the region. Even in Afghanistan.

I have posted many times promoting women in the region. They included Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Jordan. These are some of my most recent.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...olutionaries-on-international-womens-day.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...men-in-charge-in-west-banks-key-district.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/106027-a-palestinian-woman.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/106203-another-palestinian-woman.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/99114-i-remained-silent.html

I don't think any country can reach its full potential without the strong, active participation of women.

 

[JW Frogen]

Sorry, but I for one am sick of the Middle East.

If you did not have black goo we need, I would let you wallow in your self suicidial pain.

 

[mdn2000]

Sorry, but I for one am sick of the Middle East.

If you did not have black goo we need, I would let you wallow in your self suicidial pain.

I understand this sentiment, it is trying to hear of the endless tyranny especially when it is the USA's foreign policy to appease every dictator.

I think Pres. Wilson was a bit naive especially in light of the culture in the Middle East

 

[Marc39]

Too bad all the great members of this board who are so intelligent on so many aspects of the Middle East are completely silent on this thread. Maybe that just goes to show that members such as Mac69 and Kalem can only "cut and paste" and when confronted with facts they have no intelligent thought or common sense in which to add to a thread.

What is sad is Saudi Arabia is the biggest advocate of a Palestinian state for Arabs and this is part of what such a state will be.

Whats sad is this is what all Americans support through ignorance or indifference.

Saudi Arabia is pure Sunni, we got anybody on these boards calling themselves Sunni, Kalem comes to mind and whats the other one, Sunni/woman or is it Sunni man or something like that.

All those who have not posted a response here silently support the tyranny of Saudi Arabia, for those who stand silent in the face of tyranny are in fact silently supporting tyranny.

I made that up, its relevant and factual.

Er, Palestinians already have a state: Jordan.

 

[Kalam]

Too bad all the great members of this board who are so intelligent on so many aspects of the Middle East are completely silent on this thread. Maybe that just goes to show that members such as Mac69 and Kalem can only "cut and paste" and when confronted with facts they have no intelligent thought or common sense in which to add to a thread.

Don't make me laugh. You, my delusional fellow, are the very embodiment of hubris.

 

[Kalam]

The legal guardianship system in Saudi Arabia requires that women, both minors and adults, must be accompanied by a male guardian outside the home. If women wish to conduct themselves in public business, work, or to drive, they must obtain permission from or be accompanied by their male guardian, who may be her husband, father, brother, or even a minor son, according to Human Rights Watch.

Bid'ah. Guardians are only required for periods of extended travel, and only then when the woman is traveling in a dangerous area. If her security isn't threatened, the words of the Messenger (SAWS) demonstrate that traveling great distances alone is permissible for a Muslim woman:

"The day is near when a young woman will travel from al-Hira (a city in Iraq) to the Sacred House with no husband accompanying her. She will fear none but Allah." - Sahih Bukhari​

This interpretation is in line with that of Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi. This aspect of the Saudi legal code is un-Islamic, as are many others.

 

[Marc39]

The legal guardianship system in Saudi Arabia requires that women, both minors and adults, must be accompanied by a male guardian outside the home. If women wish to conduct themselves in public business, work, or to drive, they must obtain permission from or be accompanied by their male guardian, who may be her husband, father, brother, or even a minor son, according to Human Rights Watch.

Bid'ah. Guardians are only required for periods of extended travel, and only then when the woman is traveling in a dangerous area. If her security isn't threatened, the words of the Messenger (SAWS) demonstrate that traveling great distances alone is permissible for a Muslim woman:

"The day is near when a young woman will travel from al-Hira (a city in Iraq) to the Sacred House with no husband accompanying her. She will fear none but Allah." - Sahih Bukhari​

This interpretation is in line with that of Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi. This aspect of the Saudi legal code is un-Islamic, as are many others.

Islam subjugates women and Islamic law views women as domestic animals who may be beaten.

Saudi women are legally prohibited from driving cars.

Women comprise merely 5% of the workforce in Saudi Arabia, the lowest level in the world.

Many Saudi homes have separate entrances for men and women.

Until recently, Saudi women were porhibited from entering hotels without a guardian.

Nearly 30% of Saudi women are illiterate, an astonishing figure.

 

[Kalam]

Islam subjugates women and Islamic law views women as domestic animals who may be beaten.

The status of women in Islamic law is superior to that of women in Jewish law. Women in Islam are not property to be sold and inherited as they are in scriptural Judaism; accordingly, there were no great Jewish female leaders in Biblical times. One of the most famous Biblical narrations with a female protagonist, the story of Ruth, underscores the importance of complete submission to the whims of men required by the Jewish religion. Where in early Judaism do we find righteous women debating issues with prophets, leading armies, fighting alongside prophets in battle, and providing religious instruction to the community of believers? Nowhere, because Judaism had to depart from its scriptural teachings to embrace the same elevation of the female spirit inherent in God's religion. The departure of deviant sects from original teachings does nothing to diminish the importance of those teachings.

Saudi women are legally prohibited from driving cars.

Women comprise merely 5% of the workforce in Saudi Arabia, the lowest level in the world.

Many Saudi homes have separate entrances for men and women.

Until recently, Saudi women were porhibited from entering hotels without a guardian.

Nearly 30% of Saudi women are illiterate, an astonishing figure.

Bid'ah. Wahhabism is deviance from Islam.

 

[Marc39]

Islam subjugates women and Islamic law views women as domestic animals who may be beaten.

The status of women in Islamic law is superior to that of women in Jewish law.

Absolute nonsense. Islam advocates beating women. Islam advocates treating women like domestic animals. Islamic countries tolerate honor killings. Islam advocates treating women like second class citizens.

Judaism does not subjugate women. In Israel, women have full freedoms, human rights and civil liberties denied Muslimas in Islamoic countries. In fact, Muslimas have the same rights as Jewish women in Israel.

If you are ashamed of Islam, convert, but, don't lie about it.

 

[Kalam]

Absolute nonsense. Islam advocates beating women. Islam advocates treating women like domestic animals... Islam advocates treating women like second class citizens.

Incorrect. Women are warriors, leaders, scholars, and equals to men in the eyes of Allah (SWT).

And the believers, men and women, are friends one of another. They enjoin good and forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. - 9:71​

Islamic countries tolerate honor killings.

Honor killings are acts of disbelief and murder.

Judaism does not subjugate women. In Israel, women have full freedoms, human rights and civil liberties denied Muslimas in Islamoic countries.

Israeli law is not representative of pure biblical law, just as the legal systems in "Muslim" countries are not properly rooted in Islam.

If you are ashamed of Islam, convert, but, don't lie about it.

If I found it necessary to lie about my beliefs, I wouldn't hold them in the first place.

 

[mdn2000]

Too bad all the great members of this board who are so intelligent on so many aspects of the Middle East are completely silent on this thread. Maybe that just goes to show that members such as Mac69 and Kalem can only "cut and paste" and when confronted with facts they have no intelligent thought or common sense in which to add to a thread.

What is sad is Saudi Arabia is the biggest advocate of a Palestinian state for Arabs and this is part of what such a state will be.

Whats sad is this is what all Americans support through ignorance or indifference.

Saudi Arabia is pure Sunni, we got anybody on these boards calling themselves Sunni, Kalem comes to mind and whats the other one, Sunni/woman or is it Sunni man or something like that.

All those who have not posted a response here silently support the tyranny of Saudi Arabia, for those who stand silent in the face of tyranny are in fact silently supporting tyranny.

I made that up, its relevant and factual.

Er, Palestinians already have a state: Jordan.

Mouth69, your comment is in the wrong thread. Moron.

 

[mdn2000]

Too bad all the great members of this board who are so intelligent on so many aspects of the Middle East are completely silent on this thread. Maybe that just goes to show that members such as Mac69 and Kalem can only "cut and paste" and when confronted with facts they have no intelligent thought or common sense in which to add to a thread.

Don't make me laugh. You, my delusional fellow, are the very embodiment of hubris.

Klaem (the sound I make clearing flem from my throat) Dont make me hold my breath while you look up your response on Wikipedia. Emotion over-rode thought for Klaem hence we see no Wikipedia cut/paste.

 

[mdn2000]

Kalam (Klaem)

Incorrect. Women are warriors, leaders, scholars, and equals to men in the eyes of Allah (SWT).

And the believers, men and women, are friends one of another. They enjoin good and forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. - 9:71

This is why I can attack Klaem so easily and prove Klaem's points moot, all klaem can do is cut/paste the Koran from wikipedia (if klaem disagrees I can go back to a post of Klaem where Klaem cut/pasted wikipedia and left "wikipedia" at the end of the cut/paste).

One passage taken from thousands of passages is meaningless, regardless of the Koran, or the Hadith's (which Klaem completely igonores until challenged), regardless of wiki/koran cut/paste Klaem never or knows nothing of how Islam is practised nor does Klaem know the culture.

Klaem has stated that Klaem purposely does not read any historical books as they are all "coloring books written with western bias", Klaem even states this about writers from the eastern bloc or Russia.

Mouth69 is the Jew's bigot, Klaem is Islam's bigot.

Try and step in the middle of two bigots by presenting fact and watch the attack, you wont see fact, just sad attacks.

 

[Marc39]

Too bad all the great members of this board who are so intelligent on so many aspects of the Middle East are completely silent on this thread. Maybe that just goes to show that members such as Mac69 and Kalem can only "cut and paste" and when confronted with facts they have no intelligent thought or common sense in which to add to a thread.

What is sad is Saudi Arabia is the biggest advocate of a Palestinian state for Arabs and this is part of what such a state will be.

Whats sad is this is what all Americans support through ignorance or indifference.

Saudi Arabia is pure Sunni, we got anybody on these boards calling themselves Sunni, Kalem comes to mind and whats the other one, Sunni/woman or is it Sunni man or something like that.

All those who have not posted a response here silently support the tyranny of Saudi Arabia, for those who stand silent in the face of tyranny are in fact silently supporting tyranny.

I made that up, its relevant and factual.

Er, Palestinians already have a state: Jordan.

Mouth69, your comment is in the wrong thread. Moron.

Except, you know nothing about Middle East affairs, thus, your remark is meaningless.

 

[Kalam]

This is why I can attack Klaem so easily and prove Klaem's points moot, all klaem can do is cut/paste the Koran from wikipedia

Here's an image of my "Wikipedia" Qur'an with the cited passage circled:

(if klaem disagrees I can go back to a post of Klaem where Klaem cut/pasted wikipedia and left "wikipedia" at the end of the cut/paste).

I pasted information about the basics of Sunni canon in an attempt to educate you, buttwipe. I provided a link for you at the end of my post and you started menstruating all over the place because it was from Wikipedia.

One passage taken from thousands of passages is meaningless, regardless of the Koran,

The Qur'an is God's word. Claiming that any part of it is "meaningless" suggests ignorance of the highest degree, although that doesn't appear to be anything new in your case.

or the Hadith's (which Klaem completely igonores until challenged),

I post a hadith from Bukhari's collection in this thread, you blithering idiot.

Your inability to recognize ahadith cannot be blamed on me. Educate yourself, or you'll be doomed to showing everyone what a fool you are each time you click "submit reply."

regardless of wiki/koran cut/paste Klaem never or knows nothing of how Islam is practised nor does Klaem know the culture.

Right, because praying every day, reciting scripture, studying jurisprudence, and familiarizing myself with the sunnah of the Prophet (SAWS) clearly does not qualify as "practicing Islam." Perhaps I'd be forced to take your allegations more seriously if you were possessed an iota of knowledge concerning the religion, but you have made it abundantly clear that this isn't the case.

Klaem has stated that Klaem purposely does not read any historical books as they are all "coloring books written with western bias", Klaem even states this about writers from the eastern bloc or Russia.

Actually, I suggested that most of your library probably consists of "coloring books", given the intellectual caliber of your ramblings here. I stand by that statement. Kafir source are largely unnecessary for understanding Islamic history; they're all based on Islamic sources (with which I'm already familiar) or the useless travel accounts of 19th-century orientalists.

Mouth69 is the Jew's bigot, Klaem is Islam's bigot.

Try and step in the middle of two bigots by presenting fact and watch the attack, you wont see fact, just sad attacks.

Please, present "fact." This is something that I've never seen you do.

 

[Kalam]

Er, Palestinians already have a state: Jordan.

Mouth69, your comment is in the wrong thread. Moron.

Except, you know nothing about Middle East affairs, thus, your remark is meaningless.

All of the verbal diarrhea excreted by mdn2000 is meaningless.

 

[mdn2000]

This is why I can attack Klaem so easily and prove Klaem's points moot, all klaem can do is cut/paste the Koran from wikipedia

Here's an image of my "Wikipedia" Qur'an with the cited passage circled:

(if klaem disagrees I can go back to a post of Klaem where Klaem cut/pasted wikipedia and left "wikipedia" at the end of the cut/paste).

I pasted information about the basics of Sunni canon in an attempt to educate you, buttwipe. I provided a link for you at the end of my post and you started menstruating all over the place because it was from Wikipedia.


The Qur'an is God's word. Claiming that any part of it is "meaningless" suggests ignorance of the highest degree, although that doesn't appear to be anything new in your case.


I post a hadith from Bukhari's collection in this thread, you blithering idiot.

Your inability to recognize ahadith cannot be blamed on me. Educate yourself, or you'll be doomed to showing everyone what a fool you are each time you click "submit reply."


Right, because praying every day, reciting scripture, studying jurisprudence, and familiarizing myself with the sunnah of the Prophet (SAWS) clearly does not qualify as "practicing Islam." Perhaps I'd be forced to take your allegations more seriously if you were possessed an iota of knowledge concerning the religion, but you have made it abundantly clear that this isn't the case.

Klaem has stated that Klaem purposely does not read any historical books as they are all "coloring books written with western bias", Klaem even states this about writers from the eastern bloc or Russia.

Actually, I suggested that most of your library probably consists of "coloring books", given the intellectual caliber of your ramblings here. I stand by that statement. Kafir source are largely unnecessary for understanding Islamic history; they're all based on Islamic sources (with which I'm already familiar) or the useless travel accounts of 19th-century orientalists.

Mouth69 is the Jew's bigot, Klaem is Islam's bigot.

Try and step in the middle of two bigots by presenting fact and watch the attack, you wont see fact, just sad attacks.

Please, present "fact." This is something that I've never seen you do.

Klaem, glad to see you pay attention, as far as your wikipedia use, you did not state correctly what you cut and pasted from wiki pedia and it was referenced but to me that dont matter, and yes I admit I do not read the Hadith's, for that matter I did not even read your post, its not that I did not see it was a Hadith its that I know enough of your education and what you post to know that what you post is not worth reading.

The Hadith and the Koran have no significance in regards to the topics being discussed. klaem can cite and quote, cut and paste, none of it matters, what matters is how people interpet the Koran and how they behave, that is the disconnect.

Kalem, you have stated all western works are biased, nothing more than comic books
Yet its the Western works, its the westerners, (to include eastern writers who Kalem states are western, even writers from the old soviet union) who write history, its westerners who write great works that speak of the culture and the people of the Middle East.

Kalem can quote the Koran, Kalem can pray five times a day while bouncing his head off a rock from the holy land (moslems must touch thier head to sacred earth while praying), Kalem can do all that but that does not educate kalem on the culture and how the people live and practice the religion.

Kalem dismisses everything from everyone if they are not on his side, that is bigoted, a bigot may see some truth but a bigot does not know the truth.

Bigotry is a human trait, more pronounced in some than others, Kalem is not immune to bigotry, I have seen much Bigotry in Kalem, to dismiss all western works as biased, to call scholars tourists, to call foriegn diplomats living for years in the middle east a mere visitor is bigotry.

Kalem has posted many examples of bigotry, its as simple as that. This does not mean Kalem is 100% wrong, its obvious the guy studies his religion, but outside the confines of Kalem's world is an entire world that behaves much differently and interpets the same material in a much different way,

I get sick and tired of all the cut and pasting going on in these threads, it shows a lack of critical thinking, a lack of true understanding, a lack of learning.

I see both sides doing this.

Kalem to be a truely educated person on his faith and how its practiced in the world needs to quit being a bigot and read books written by biased western writers