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Zone1 Santa and Jesus

rightwinger

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Yeah, you think? So the way they deal with it is to justify by saying CHRISTmas is not REALLY a CHRISTian holiday.

Christmas is the day we celebrate Santa’s Birthday with decorated trees, lights and ugly sweaters
 

Meriweather

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I think He was born in March
Luke 1:26 - In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee call Nazareth to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph...

Ancient Christianity had a tradition that Jesus died on the day he was conceived. In Judaism, the sixth month was/is Adar, which falls within our months of February, March. The traditional dates of the annunciation/crucifixion is March 25.

Birthdays were not commonly noted/celebrated in those days. Once celebrating birthdays did become popular, Christians counted nine months from March 25...December 25.

Luke wrote his Gospel/Acts in Greek. Ancient Greek calendar would have placed the sixth month in December. However, Luke lived in Roman times and their sixth month was August. (August literally means sixth).

Early Christians lived in Roman times, but because of their celebration of the Annunciation being in March, it adds some weight to Luke also using the Jewish calendar.

On the other hand (there is always an 'other hand', Luke's Gospel was written most likely by a non-Palestinian to an audience of largely Gentile Christians.

Interesting side note is the Jewish celebration of Purim is in their sixth month, a celebration where people give gifts to each other and to the poor.
 

Meriweather

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Watch this forum in the next month, like clockwork. Unbelievers crying about Yule, crying about Solstice, crying about trees and stuff most Christians have heard a million times.
Yes. It is like they never heard of cultural diffusion which has been going on since the beginning of mankind. As I recall, cultural diffusion is taught as early as sixth grade history.

People celebrate, they decorate, they enjoy giving/receiving, eating/drinking, and games. No one took over anyone's holiday, they merely added the nicer things in other holidays to their own celebrations.

I like this because our ancestors stretch back to many nations/cultures. While I celebrate Christmas, I like the idea that a Christmas tree was most likely used in their celebration of something else. Ties us all together as family despite differences.
 
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vasuderatorrent

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It must be almost December---here come all the unbelievers telling us we're celebrating our holiday wrong.

It's all so many sour grapes.

Lol The Old Testament specifically defines every holiday. The New Testament only mentions one.

It’s not that holidays are being celebrated wrong. They just aren’t Christian holidays.
 

vasuderatorrent

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Yes. It is like they never heard of cultural diffusion which has been going on since the beginning of mankind. As I recall, cultural diffusion is taught as early as sixth grade history.

People celebrate, they decorate, they enjoy giving/receiving, eating/drinking, and games. No one took over anyone's holiday, they merely added the nicer things in other holidays to their own celebrations.

I like this because our ancestors stretch back to many nations/cultures. While I celebrate Christmas, I like the idea that a Christmas tree was most likely used in their celebration of something else. Ties us all together as family despite differences.

That’s a logical and reasonable way to look at it. You do realize Evangelical Nut jobs firmly believe they have preserved actual Christian traditions and would call your diffusion theory heresy?
 

Meriweather

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That’s a logical and reasonable way to look at it. You do realize Evangelical Nut jobs firmly believe they have preserved actual Christian traditions and would call your diffusion theory heresy?
It would be like a discussion between people who have researched/studied world history from ancient times and people who only remember how Christmas has been in their own generation.

On the other hand, non-believers have their own part to play. In the late 1800s some atheist(s) started the theory that Christians kidnapped/appropriated all the holidays and made them Christian. That was debunked by the 1930s, but every year the debunked appropriation is dug up once more. As it has been over a hundred years since it the false theory was created, and nearly a hundred years since it was debunked, it has become a tradition in its own right. Let's set a date to celebrate! :)
 

buttercup

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Yes. It is like they never heard of cultural diffusion which has been going on since the beginning of mankind. As I recall, cultural diffusion is taught as early as sixth grade history.

People celebrate, they decorate, they enjoy giving/receiving, eating/drinking, and games. No one took over anyone's holiday, they merely added the nicer things in other holidays to their own celebrations.

I like this because our ancestors stretch back to many nations/cultures. While I celebrate Christmas, I like the idea that a Christmas tree was most likely used in their celebration of something else. Ties us all together as family despite differences.

That sounds nice and all, except for the fact that God emphatically states throughout the Bible to not embrace "traditions of men" or pagan traditions. So "adding the nicer things in other holidays to their own celebrations" was flatly unbiblical. And btw, the idea that all people in the world including people with different beliefs are one family is also unbiblical, but that's another topic. I'm sure I'll be called a party pooper for saying these things… So hey, do what you want to do.
 
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vasuderatorrent

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That sounds nice and all, except for the fact that God emphatically states throughout the Bible to not embrace "traditions of men" or pagan traditions. So "adding the nicer things in other holidays to their own celebrations" was flatly unbiblical. And btw, the idea that all people in the world including people with different beliefs are one family is also unbiblical, but that's another topic. I'm sure I'll be called a party pooper for saying these things… So hey, do what you want to do.

Judaism and Christianity are just cultural influences. They aren’t the be all and end all of every day living. Nobody takes that stuff seriously. They just think they take it seriously. It’s fun to watch.
 

Meriweather

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That sounds nice and all, except for the fact that God emphatically states throughout the Bible to not embrace "traditions of men" or pagan traditions. So "adding the nicer things in other holidays to their own celebrations" is flatly unbiblical. And btw, the idea that all people in the world including people with different views are one family is also unbiblical, but that's another topic. I'm sure I'll be called a party pooper for saying these things… So hey, do what you want to do.
Jesus' shortest parable was about yeast working its way through the dough. The comparison was The Kingdom working its way through the world.

We also have the Letter to the Corinthians instructing missionaries to eat what was put in front of them.

The warnings about the traditions of man had to do with finding loopholes. For example, the Commandment was to take care of one's parents. The loophole was, "Unless you are giving that money to the Temple."

Honoring God with lips, with the heart being far from it can work in both directions. One can say they are honoring God by not observing Christmas at all on account of the traditions of men, but is that honor lessened or exhibited by putting up a Christmas? Could the celebrations and decorations be highlighting the honor we give the birth of Christ? Depends on each individual and each Christmas.
 

shimon

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Santa is just an anagram for SATAN who gets his Claws( Claus) into you.. The heat from the fireplace doesn’t bother him and beware of strangers bearing gifts and thieving from G-d by knowing when you are good or bad... But hey the truth is always right in front of you hidden in plain sight to bad so many are blind to it...Yup old Saint Nick was short for the devil to as that name is associated with him as well..
 

zaangalewa

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Santa is an American creation based on an old story. Coca Cola was first to make the most popular image of Santa Claus

That's wrong.

in America.

This I also doubt about.

Christians remember the story of the Birth of Jesus. Both are not mutually unacceptable. It's all for fun

No. The birth of Jesus the Christ is not "for fun" - and also not the birth of any other child [of god] today.

and celebration. We all need to lighten up.

Originally, kids were taught that if they didn't act like decent human beings, they would be punished at Christmas.

What a nonsense. I guess our children here in Germany had been always damned impatient - that's why they got and get their presents in the evening of the 24th of December (what's by the way also the Jewish begin of the 25th of December) - before the grown ups went often a long way through a harsh winter night to the next midnight mass.


They would receive a 'lump of coal.'

This seems to have to do with industrialization as far as I am able to see in the moment. ¿Ebenezer Scrooge?


In America that tradition as morphed into a day of family celebration,

Or nothing has "morphed" and the most citizens of the USA celebrate Christmas at Christmas. Nearly the same Christmas as last Christmas - but nevertheless never the same Christmas. Panta rei.

winter pent up energy and the giving of presents thanks to abundance,

Hmm ... perhaps it's not a bad time to remember this words of Jesus now:

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

a free market and a general belief that Christmas should be held as a sacred human experience. Long Live Santa Claus!!

He lives long. He's 1752 years old now - but also always a little childish.

 
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zaangalewa

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Santa is just an anagram for SATAN who gets his Claws( Claus) into you.. The heat from the fireplace doesn’t bother him and beware of strangers bearing gifts and thieving from G-d by knowing when you are good or bad... But hey the truth is always right in front of you hidden in plain sight to bad so many are blind to it...Yup old Saint Nick was short for the devil to as that name is associated with him as well..

Interesting method to try to produce hate on Jews in this context, Satana. Nevertheless: Vade retro!
 

zaangalewa

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Judaism and Christianity are just cultural influences. They aren’t the be all and end all of every day living. Nobody takes that stuff seriously. They just think they take it seriously. It’s fun to watch.

The key word is "monotheism" - and the other key word I think about now is "arrogant anti-philosopher".

.
 

DudleySmith

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Luke 1:26 - In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee call Nazareth to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph...

Ancient Christianity had a tradition that Jesus died on the day he was conceived. In Judaism, the sixth month was/is Adar, which falls within our months of February, March. The traditional dates of the annunciation/crucifixion is March 25.

Birthdays were not commonly noted/celebrated in those days. Once celebrating birthdays did become popular, Christians counted nine months from March 25...December 25.

Luke wrote his Gospel/Acts in Greek. Ancient Greek calendar would have placed the sixth month in December. However, Luke lived in Roman times and their sixth month was August. (August literally means sixth).

Early Christians lived in Roman times, but because of their celebration of the Annunciation being in March, it adds some weight to Luke also using the Jewish calendar.

On the other hand (there is always an 'other hand', Luke's Gospel was written most likely by a non-Palestinian to an audience of largely Gentile Christians.

Interesting side note is the Jewish celebration of Purim is in their sixth month, a celebration where people give gifts to each other and to the poor.
That would cause a conflict with Easter, it would seem, as his crucification was close to March as well, wasn't it? Maybe he was crucified on his birthday, a symbolic choice? The actual date is unknown, so it's okay to pick one, and replacing a pagan festival with a Christian one is fine. Not a criticism or argument, just an observation.
 

DudleySmith

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Santa is just an anagram for SATAN who gets his Claws( Claus) into you.. The heat from the fireplace doesn’t bother him and beware of strangers bearing gifts and thieving from G-d by knowing when you are good or bad... But hey the truth is always right in front of you hidden in plain sight to bad so many are blind to it...Yup old Saint Nick was short for the devil to as that name is associated with him as well..

lol yet more evidence few Jews are actually smart. Hilarious stuff.

Santa comes from Saint.
 

JoeB131

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You know, I really don't see what problem a lot of Christians have with Santa Claus. As long as they know what Christmas is truly about, isn't Jesus and Santa both about giving, loving, and caring onto others? Sure when kids get older they'll learn that Santa is really just a spirit not actually a person, but still I say let kids be kids as I don't see anything wrong with it personally.

Hopefully, when kids get older, they'll realize Jesus isn't real either and get rid of Bronze Age superstitions...

Santa is an American creation based on an old story. Coca Cola was first to make the most popular image of Santa Claus in America. Christians remember the story of the Birth of Jesus. Both are not mutually unacceptable. It's all for fun and celebration. We all need to lighten up.

Not really. Santa started in the 19th Century when Americans wanted a Christmas Spirit that was distinct from the British "Father Christmas". So they picked "Sinter Klaas", the Dutch version of St. Nicholas because New York was originally a Dutch colony. It spread to the rest of the country.

Originally, kids were taught that if they didn't act like decent human beings, they would be punished at Christmas. They would receive a 'lump of coal.' In America that tradition as morphed into a day of family celebration, winter pent up energy and the giving of presents thanks to abundance, a free market and a general belief that Christmas should be held as a sacred human experience. Long Live Santa Claus!!

Actually, Santa is just one of many Christmas spirits around the world. In England, it was "Father Christmas", and in Russia, it is Ded Moroz (Grandfather Frost), Germany it is Kris Kringle. In Latin countries, it is Papa Noel.


Santa is becoming the standardized version now because of the dominance of American culture around the world. So you get weird shit like Santa Claus in Japan where nobody is actually Christian.
 

JoeB131

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I think He was born in March, actually. At any rate, Christmas is FAR from my favorite holiday. My two faves, by far, are Thanksgiving and the 4th of July. I feel like I don't *need* Christmas and Easter as holidays, because I carry those celebrations with me every day.

Yup, you hate Gays and Mexicans, just like Jesus did. Praise Jesus.
 

JoeB131

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It would be like a discussion between people who have researched/studied world history from ancient times and people who only remember how Christmas has been in their own generation.

On the other hand, non-believers have their own part to play. In the late 1800s some atheist(s) started the theory that Christians kidnapped/appropriated all the holidays and made them Christian. That was debunked by the 1930s, but every year the debunked appropriation is dug up once more. As it has been over a hundred years since it the false theory was created, and nearly a hundred years since it was debunked, it has become a tradition in its own right. Let's set a date to celebrate!

Except that ancient people DID celebrate the Winter Solstice, with celebrations such as Saturnalia, Yule, etc. The same with Easter and Halloween. Because, hey, those Pagans might give up their gods if you threaten to kill them like Jesus wanted, but dammit, they still want the Solstice off!

I think we need to bring back Michaelmas.
 

JoeB131

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Santa is just an anagram for SATAN who gets his Claws( Claus) into you.. The heat from the fireplace doesn’t bother him and beware of strangers bearing gifts and thieving from G-d by knowing when you are good or bad... But hey the truth is always right in front of you hidden in plain sight to bad so many are blind to it...Yup old Saint Nick was short for the devil to as that name is associated with him as well..

Actually, Saint Nicholas was a real person, and the reason why Santa wears red is because originally, he was a Catholic Cardinal.
 

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