Ryan-Murray committee reaches budget deal

[The Rabbi]

Seems to me the GOP has a pretty clear choice, in can go in one of two directions:

It can grab the country by the throat and try to jerk it several steps to the left all at once, at the clear risk of alienating many voters and losing elections it could otherwise win (the present strategy of the Tea Party wing of the party).

Or it can do the heavy lifting of winning seats, proving itself and its ideas to a wider breadth of the American populace, earning their trust, winning more seats and moving the country to the right via legislation.

Hey, I'm no political strategist -- this stuff is essentially professional wrestling to me -- but I do know that a willingness to do the heavy lifting with focus, patience and humility will most often yield the best long-term results.

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What the hell does that even mean??

You really need me to explain it?

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Yes, go ahead. This will be interesting.

 

[Mac1958]

What the hell does that even mean??

You really need me to explain it?

.

Yes, go ahead. This will be interesting.

Well, I have to admit I think I did a pretty good job the first time. I don't know what I would do to simplify it.

What, precisely, are you not understanding?

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[gipper]

Ryan should resign. He, like that a-hole Boner, should just leave. This budget is a total fiasco. Just kicking it down the road...AGAIN. What a joke our politicians are. They all disgust me.

The GOP should disappear. Then a real alternative party based on the rule of law, individual liberty, limited government, and free market capitalism might rise.

 

[The Rabbi]

You really need me to explain it?

.

Yes, go ahead. This will be interesting.

Well, I have to admit I think I did a pretty good job the first time. I don't know what I would do to simplify it.

What, precisely, are you not understanding?

.

All of it.
First off, does the GOP really have only one of two choices? Couldn't they do both. Or neither. Or some third or fourth thing?
Second, how will the GOP jerk the country to the left? Hasn't the Democrat Party already done that? Why would the GOP jerk the country to the left? How would they even do that if they wanted to?
What do you mean by "doing the heavy lifting"? I assume you mean a steady patient sustained effort to make the case for whatever policies the GOP wants (The "GOP" is made up of individuals, many of whom want different and in many cases incompatible things). Do you think this isn't going on right now? Karl Rove writes a column in the WSJ. Non profit orgs stage meetings and organize protests. The list goes on and on.
So your post was a bunch of cliches and bumper sticker thoughts. I was hoping there was something deeper there.

 

[Mac1958]

Yes, go ahead. This will be interesting.

Well, I have to admit I think I did a pretty good job the first time. I don't know what I would do to simplify it.

What, precisely, are you not understanding?

.

All of it.
First off, does the GOP really have only one of two choices? Couldn't they do both. Or neither. Or some third or fourth thing?
Second, how will the GOP jerk the country to the left? Hasn't the Democrat Party already done that? Why would the GOP jerk the country to the left? How would they even do that if they wanted to?
What do you mean by "doing the heavy lifting"? I assume you mean a steady patient sustained effort to make the case for whatever policies the GOP wants (The "GOP" is made up of individuals, many of whom want different and in many cases incompatible things). Do you think this isn't going on right now? Karl Rove writes a column in the WSJ. Non profit orgs stage meetings and organize protests. The list goes on and on.
So your post was a bunch of cliches and bumper sticker thoughts. I was hoping there was something deeper there.

In order:

Sure, there are shades of gray everywhere. But overall, a party needs to at least have one general direction. Right now, the party is battling itself, and while they may want to deny that, it's pretty clear. The Tea Party wants everything now, the rest of the party sees that just can't be done.

Second, you're absolutely right, shit. I meant "jerk the country to the right". My fault, thanks. Shit. Fixed.

Finally, by "heavy lifting" I mean that our problems are, at their foundation, cultural in nature, not political. This can't be reversed by mere politics; hearts and minds have to be changed. Look at Obamacare: Purely political, passed by one party. Now look how many people are against it, because the Democrats didn't change hearts and minds. That's much tougher and requires more patience than leveraging advantage for temporary political victories.

.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, I have to admit I think I did a pretty good job the first time. I don't know what I would do to simplify it.

What, precisely, are you not understanding?

.

All of it.
First off, does the GOP really have only one of two choices? Couldn't they do both. Or neither. Or some third or fourth thing?
Second, how will the GOP jerk the country to the left? Hasn't the Democrat Party already done that? Why would the GOP jerk the country to the left? How would they even do that if they wanted to?
What do you mean by "doing the heavy lifting"? I assume you mean a steady patient sustained effort to make the case for whatever policies the GOP wants (The "GOP" is made up of individuals, many of whom want different and in many cases incompatible things). Do you think this isn't going on right now? Karl Rove writes a column in the WSJ. Non profit orgs stage meetings and organize protests. The list goes on and on.
So your post was a bunch of cliches and bumper sticker thoughts. I was hoping there was something deeper there.

In order:

Sure, there are shades of gray everywhere. But overall, a party needs to at least have one general direction. Right now, the party is battling itself, and while they may want to deny that, it's pretty clear. The Tea Party wants everything now, the rest of the party sees that just can't be done.

Second, you're absolutely right, shit. I meant "jerk the country to the right". My fault, thanks. Shit. Fixed.

Finally, by "heavy lifting" I mean that our problems are, at their foundation, cultural in nature, not political. This can't be reversed by mere politics; hearts and minds have to be changed. Look at Obamacare: Purely political, passed by one party. Now look how many people are against it, because the Democrats didn't change hearts and minds. That's much tougher and requires more patience than leveraging advantage for temporary political victories.

.

In a two party system like ours, each party consists of many different factions. In a parliamentary system they would be separate poltiical parties. So the GOP, and to a less degree the Dems, are really several parties. Currently they are duking it out. The Tea Party is not new. It is the old Reagan Republicans who want small government, lower taxes, more freedom. The establishment is not new either. It is the old Nixon/Rockefeller Republicans of Big Business and Big Government. It is a healthy debate and one that needs to happen. We wont get a single message from the GOP for a while. If ever. We just need to see which side will be better at selling its message to the American public. I believe the TP people have better ideas and solutions and will win. The other side's strategy is basically "the Dems control the WH and the Senate so the best we can do is look good to the media."

 

[JakeStarkey]

The TeaPs have not the $$$ or the message or the form to win.

When Boehner and Ryan said "no" on Tuesday, the only matter now that is important is the vote later today.

If the bill fails in the House, the TeaPs will continue to influence GOP policy.

If not, the TeaPs and the old Reaganites have lost out to the future.

 

[gipper]

The TeaPs have not the $$$ or the message or the form to win.

When Boehner and Ryan said "no" on Tuesday, the only matter now that is important is the vote later today.

If the bill fails in the House, the TeaPs will continue to influence GOP policy.

If not, the TeaPs and the old Reaganites have lost out to the future.

I suspect you have that exactly wrong.

The TPers and conservatives/libertarians have all the more reason to leave the R party entirely.

We can only hope this is the death knell for a corrupt and deceitful political party.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, as the GOP will revive with the corrupt TeaPs and libertarians expelled from it.

House Debates Budget Agreement C-SPAN | Capitol Hill, The White House and National PoliticsW

Where are the paid far right reactionary shills? They have been told to stay out of these threads, drying to dry them up.

 

[Listening]

No one in his right mind worries about what the far right reactionaries think.

Ryan is for it, you are not, which tells you, Helena, who the mainstream GOP will support in the primaries. Not your candidates.

Oh no,

They seemed to pay a lot of attention when they shut down the government.

You are a relic. Why don't you just change your affiliation and be done with it.

Because the mainstream GOP is the party's majority, you are in the small minority, and we are not going to let the tail wag the dog.

Tis what tis.

They already figured out that they could.

It's just a shame more members of congress don't have balls you need a microscope to find.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh no,

They seemed to pay a lot of attention when they shut down the government.

You are a relic. Why don't you just change your affiliation and be done with it.

Because the mainstream GOP is the party's majority, you are in the small minority, and we are not going to let the tail wag the dog.

Tis what tis.

They already figured out that they could.

It's just a shame more members of congress don't have balls you need a microscope to find.

That did not make sense. The little balls group will lose today.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

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The Tea Partiers are treading on dangerous ground here. The public sees cooperation, not capitulation. They see reasoned negotiation, not winners & losers. I sense another cocoon forming, and I have to wonder if the GOP is once again going to see fewer electoral victories than they could because of the demands for purity by its most energized group.

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Every time there is cooperation like this, the big losers are the American taxpayers.

And if you think that getting more republicans elected will be any big improvement, I will ask you to remember what happened to spending the last time republicans controlled the whole show.

Seems to me the GOP has a pretty clear choice, in can go in one of two directions:

It can grab the country by the throat and try to jerk it several steps to the right all at once, at the clear risk of alienating many voters and losing elections it could otherwise win (the present strategy of the Tea Party wing of the party).

Or it can do the heavy lifting of winning seats, proving itself and its ideas to a wider breadth of the American populace, earning their trust, winning more seats and moving the country to the right via legislation.

That's the story the republican congresscritters tell us every time they sell out.

They held all the cards for six years under Bush and spent even crazier than did Bill Clinton.

They have sold their goodwill in order to end the sequester and get their precious military spending back on track.

Hey, I'm no political strategist -- this stuff is essentially professional wrestling to me -- but I do know that a willingness to do the heavy lifting with focus, patience and humility will most often yield the best long-term results.

.

A very apropos metaphor.

Tell me, are rival professional wrestlers really the enemies that they portray themselves to be, before the bright arena lights and cameras?

 

[Mac1958]

Hey, I'm no political strategist -- this stuff is essentially professional wrestling to me -- but I do know that a willingness to do the heavy lifting with focus, patience and humility will most often yield the best long-term results..

A very apropos metaphor.

Tell me, are rival professional wrestlers really the enemies that they portray themselves to be, before the bright arena lights and cameras?

Yeah, one helluva question. Surely they all know that "the other guys" are just as full of shit as they are, and I can't help but wonder if they giggle like schoolgirls behind the scenes as they compare notes on how they take us for a ride so regularly.

My point is that the GOP can't do much of anything unless they get elected, and that just finding a way to squeak out victories is nothing more than temporary. Our culture is rotting, hearts & minds need to be changed, and I don't see either party doing it.

.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Hey, I'm no political strategist -- this stuff is essentially professional wrestling to me -- but I do know that a willingness to do the heavy lifting with focus, patience and humility will most often yield the best long-term results..

A very apropos metaphor.

Tell me, are rival professional wrestlers really the enemies that they portray themselves to be, before the bright arena lights and cameras?

Yeah, one helluva question. Surely they all know that "the other guys" are just as full of shit as they are, and I can't help but wonder if they giggle like schoolgirls behind the scenes as they compare notes on how they take us for a ride so regularly.

My point is that the GOP can't do much of anything unless they get elected, and that just finding a way to squeak out victories is nothing more than temporary. Our culture is rotting, hearts & minds need to be changed, and I don't see either party doing it.

.

But they could do something.

For once, the status quo is actually a better deal than the deal.

The super-duper skimpy cuts in the budget don't kick in until the out years, which means the will never take place, and it would take the emergency spending from a California earthquake or a hurricane Sandy to wipe out that timid spending reduction.

We are being scammed like mad.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am just thrilled Boehner reined in the TeaPs.

OK the bill passed. Time to primary the TeaPs next year so we can have a sane GOP.

 

[Listening]

I am just thrilled Boehner reined in the TeaPs.

OK the bill passed. Time to primary the TeaPs next year so we can have a sane GOP.

Go for it.

We Conservatives crushed the moderates in my state the last couple of go-arounds and it's only going in one direction. If any of our congresspeople voted with Boner, they'll catch it when the come home.

Primary all you like Fakey.....you probably don't even know who your local reps are.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

I am just thrilled Boehner reined in the TeaPs.

OK the bill passed. Time to primary the TeaPs next year so we can have a sane GOP.

Go for it.

We Conservatives crushed the moderates in my state the last couple of go-arounds and it's only going in one direction. If any of our congresspeople voted with Boner, they'll catch it when the come home.

Primary all you like Fakey.....you probably don't even know who your local reps are.

If he's from Utah, as he claims, then it's a near certainty that they are some of the few principled conservative republicans in congress.

Let's not count Orrin Hatch in that number.

 

[Listening]

I am just thrilled Boehner reined in the TeaPs.

OK the bill passed. Time to primary the TeaPs next year so we can have a sane GOP.

Go for it.

We Conservatives crushed the moderates in my state the last couple of go-arounds and it's only going in one direction. If any of our congresspeople voted with Boner, they'll catch it when the come home.

Primary all you like Fakey.....you probably don't even know who your local reps are.

If he's from Utah, as he claims, then it's a near certainty that they are some of the few principled conservative republicans in congress.

Let's not count Orrin Hatch in that number.

He thinks he'll somehow get Huntsman in there.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am just thrilled Boehner reined in the TeaPs.

OK the bill passed. Time to primary the TeaPs next year so we can have a sane GOP.

Go for it.

We Conservatives crushed the moderates in my state the last couple of go-arounds and it's only going in one direction. If any of our congresspeople voted with Boner, they'll catch it when the come home.

Primary all you like Fakey.....you probably don't even know who your local reps are.

There will be some TeaP victories, I imagine, but the 33 TeaPs will be reduced to 11 in the House.

Helena, I know both senators and the four reps, personally.

I am done with the political threads for a long, long time.

End game has finally arrived.

 

[Listening]

I am just thrilled Boehner reined in the TeaPs.

OK the bill passed. Time to primary the TeaPs next year so we can have a sane GOP.

Go for it.

We Conservatives crushed the moderates in my state the last couple of go-arounds and it's only going in one direction. If any of our congresspeople voted with Boner, they'll catch it when the come home.

Primary all you like Fakey.....you probably don't even know who your local reps are.

There will be some TeaP victories, I imagine, but the 33 TeaPs will be reduced to 11 in the House.

Helena, I know both senators and the four reps, personally.

I am done with the political threads for a long, long time.

End game has finally arrived.

So what ?

They probably hate to see you coming.