RWs, how do we fix our shitty healthcare system?

[Flopper]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

Many consider me to be conservative and, as is, I think our health care system in the USA is fucked up beyond repair. And it was that way even before the ACA fucked it up even worse than it was.

The USA should go to a single payer system IMO. There are other countries that brag about their universal heath care. The USA could make them all look silly.

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending. By phasing out private insurance over a period of years and transferring into to a single payer system, we could see a significant decrease in healthcare costs.

There is little competition between insurance companies and even less cost control. Their claims processing is more expensive than single payer and sucks billions of dollars out the system each year.

Who the hell do you think is funding those subsidies? It isn't the government. The ONLY way the government has the money is by taking it from someone that actually had to do something to earn it. See, the government provides no service nor produces any product that brings in revenue.

Under private insurance, my max out of pocket for any year was $750. I consider that very good and don't need the government fucking it up for the sake of someone else.

By private insurance, do you mean insurance through your employer. I haven't seen any plan available to individuals with a deductible as low as $750.

 

[Papageorgio]

The 1% get elected to Congress, the 1% lobby Congress, do you honestly think they care what the middle class pays for a gallon of milk, or what the middle class pays for healthcare, or how the middle class is the ones burdened with big government? Obamacare hurt the middle class, not the poor, not the rich, the middle class.

Both Republicans and Democrats write laws that favor the rich, because they are the rich.

So how come at the end of 2011, there were 11 million millionaires versus 100 years ago when there were 207 people in the USA that had $1m income/ year.

Why are you so intent to take come from the rich when YOU could spend that time getting rich yourself?
Why are people like you so jealous of the rich when as the above statistics show there has been a 5,3014,010% INCREASE in millionaires!
Think about it. Are you that lazy or stupid that you can't get on your own make a success of your life?

Some 86% of millionaires say they made their own wealth, according to Fidelity’s 2012 Millionaire Outlook Survey. Of these self-made millionaires, 30% told Fidelity that they struggled financially when they were young. But fruitful careers in finance, accounting, or technical industries set them on a different financial path. The good news for you? Even a simple business idea can get you into their club.
10 Things You Didn't Know About Millionaires

I don't begrudge the rich, good for them. I work for a rich guy. I dislike that Congress caters to the rich and spit on the middle class. Congress is supposed to work for everyone, not the rich.

The GOP caters to the rich DUH, dupe.

So do the democrats, they raped the middle class with their healthcare bill. Bend over and take it. I see no difference between Republicans and Democrats. The democrats like yourself just aren't smart enough to see it. Dupe!

Healthy competition hasn't started yet in red states, thanks to Pubs and their insurer cronies. The cost curve is bending down anyway. The dupes missing their old scam plans are brainwashed functional morons.

I live in a blue state and it cost more than in my neighboring red state. The cost is continuing to curve up, the coverage is worse than my policy before ACA. You getting your healthcare for free pretty much makes you a know nothing empty headed dupe. Obama even delayed the mandate for businesses by one year and still required everyone else to get coverage, there by hurting the middle class once again. Dupe!

 

[francoHFW]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

Many consider me to be conservative and, as is, I think our health care system in the USA is fucked up beyond repair. And it was that way even before the ACA fucked it up even worse than it was.

The USA should go to a single payer system IMO. There are other countries that brag about their universal heath care. The USA could make them all look silly.

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending. By phasing out private insurance over a period of years and transferring into to a single payer system, we could see a significant decrease in healthcare costs.

There is little competition between insurance companies and even less cost control. Their claims processing is more expensive than single payer and sucks billions of dollars out the system each year.

Who the hell do you think is funding those subsidies? It isn't the government. The ONLY way the government has the money is by taking it from someone that actually had to do something to earn it. See, the government provides no service nor produces any product that brings in revenue.

Under private insurance, my max out of pocket for any year was $750. I consider that very good and don't need the government fucking it up for the sake of someone else.

You were paying for the poor before, just in the stupidest,cruelest, most humiliating, deadliest way, dupe. Forcing people out of jobs and onto welfare to get Medicaid is IDIOTIC. Your old plan was probably a scam if you got really sick. Now you know how much good care, guaranteed and with annual cap, ACTUALLY COSTS and we can start bringing the cost down. If Pubs and their insurer/Big Health/Pharma cronies stop the sabotage.

 

[healthmyths]

How do we fix our healthcare woes?

Take away the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance (ESHI). ESHI bends the cost curve of health care up. It is a massive boondoggle that needs to go away. Instead of mandating employers provide health insurance like ObamaCare does, we should dis-incentivize it.

You are a hostage to your employer's health plan. It is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. You have ZERO bargaining leverage. In turn, small employers have little to no leverage with the insurance companies. And if one person in a small business runs up large medical bills, the premiums of every employee skyrockets.

In turn, the insurance company is hostage to the medical provider in that geographical area.

This is one seriously screwed up way to run health care, and is yet another example of how tax expenditures distort the living shit out of the free market.

You should be buying your health insurance the same way you buy all your other insurance. You pick up the phone and call ANY insurance provider in the country, and you decide what options you want.

Q: What is the big difference between health insurance and every other kind of insurance?

A: The government is the biggest player in the health insurance market, and it gets to write the rules for its competitors! That's unfair competition staring you right in the face, boys and girls.

The government is not a big player in the auto, life, or home insurance markets. It shouldn't be in the health insurance market, either.

When you are able to pick up the phone and call any insurance company you wish, then you have maximum market leverage. That has been stolen from you by the government, and by the labor unions who want you penned up in a take-it-or-leave-it bullshit situation at your job.

What's more, when you lose or quit your job, or transfer to another company, you lose your health insurance, and you lose the benefits of long term customer discounts. This does not happen to you with all your other insurance.

I agree with your point that employers shouldn't be providing health insurance. It was a bad idea from the get go. By the time employers realized in 1980's, they should not be in the healthcare business, it was too late. Labor unions, competition from other employers, and state laws made it very difficult to drop health insurance.

I'd strongly urge you to read this as I have! Then get back to me about employers' insurance plans.
https://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Files/Downloads/mlr-report-02-15-2013.pdf

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?
If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.

 

[Flopper]

They are free to the poor people that go to them. I agree that they are not a cost effective way to deliver healthcare. Too many people go there for a hangnail or a summer cold.

Exactly. But if more people have access to health insurance (and if more clinics had the common sense to stay open on nights and weekends), there'd be more efficient ways for people to be treated for minor problems.

Urgent care centers in hospitals and clinics are popping up all over the country. The good ones have access to much of the diagnostic capabilities of emergency rooms but have far less overhead because they don't deal with the trauma and life and death emergencies.

One of the major reasons people go to emergency rooms is they can often accomplish more in 3 or 4 hours than your family doctor and associated specialist will accomplish in a month.

In so many clinic environments, a cancer diagnosis or a heart problem can take weeks to diagnosis as the patient waits for appointments with specialists, labs, diagnostic imaging etc and those weeks can be critical to good outcome.

If you are you saying that urgent care centers have cancer specialists and cardiologists on staff you would be wrong.

I'm saying urgent care facilities in hospitals have access to diagnostic facilities not available in doctors offices and can provide faster turnaround. They do treatments and diagnostic testing that's not commonly done in your doctors office such as administering IVs, wound care, diagnostic imaging, EKG', etc. I've found that today, there is very little done in doctor's office other than examination, referrals, ordering of tests done in other facilities, and writing prescriptions. Good urgent care centers in hospitals are or should be a step between your doctor's office and the ER.

I do not know of any urgent care centers that are located IN a hospital. My doctor has an X-ray machine and has to send me to a specialist for diagnostic imaging, EKG etc. The Urgent care center in the same building has to do the same thing. The only advantage I found is the Urgent care center is walk in and wait while I need an appointment to see my Doctor.

There are urgent care centers in some hospital. I've found urgent care centers found commonly in shopping centers are good for a handful of pills, inoculations, advice, and referral to an emergency room.

 

[g5000]

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?

I am. Not banned, though. It should be up to the employer what benefits they choose to give to their employees.

If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. I said take away the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. The money an employer is spending on employee insurance is employee income, and right now it is exempt from income tax. It shouldn't be.

It is government interference in the free market, and it is massively distorting the market as a result, bending the cost curve up. It is government wealth redistribution and behavior modification.

Taking away the tax exemption will dis-incentivize employers from sponsoring health insurance, which should be the goal.

 

[Conservative65]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

Many consider me to be conservative and, as is, I think our health care system in the USA is fucked up beyond repair. And it was that way even before the ACA fucked it up even worse than it was.

The USA should go to a single payer system IMO. There are other countries that brag about their universal heath care. The USA could make them all look silly.

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending. By phasing out private insurance over a period of years and transferring into to a single payer system, we could see a significant decrease in healthcare costs.

There is little competition between insurance companies and even less cost control. Their claims processing is more expensive than single payer and sucks billions of dollars out the system each year.

Who the hell do you think is funding those subsidies? It isn't the government. The ONLY way the government has the money is by taking it from someone that actually had to do something to earn it. See, the government provides no service nor produces any product that brings in revenue.

Under private insurance, my max out of pocket for any year was $750. I consider that very good and don't need the government fucking it up for the sake of someone else.

You were paying for the poor before, just in the stupidest,cruelest, most humiliating, deadliest way, dupe. Forcing people out of jobs and onto welfare to get Medicaid is IDIOTIC. Your old plan was probably a scam if you got really sick. Now you know how much good care, guaranteed and with annual cap, ACTUALLY COSTS and we can start bringing the cost down. If Pubs and their insurer/Big Health/Pharma cronies stop the sabotage.

Forcing someone that earns what they have to fund something for someone that doesn't earn it is IDIOTIC.

Typical Democrat retard making claims about something someone has for which they know nothing about. I can make the statement about my healthcare before your home boy was President from experience. It paid every time.

Your BOY lied about healthcare and what people could keep if they liked it yet you want us to believe what he says is true. Only an idiot would believe him.

I don't have a problem putting out what needs to be put out and Obamacare is one of those things.

 

[francoHFW]

Many consider me to be conservative and, as is, I think our health care system in the USA is fucked up beyond repair. And it was that way even before the ACA fucked it up even worse than it was.

The USA should go to a single payer system IMO. There are other countries that brag about their universal heath care. The USA could make them all look silly.

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending. By phasing out private insurance over a period of years and transferring into to a single payer system, we could see a significant decrease in healthcare costs.

There is little competition between insurance companies and even less cost control. Their claims processing is more expensive than single payer and sucks billions of dollars out the system each year.

Who the hell do you think is funding those subsidies? It isn't the government. The ONLY way the government has the money is by taking it from someone that actually had to do something to earn it. See, the government provides no service nor produces any product that brings in revenue.

Under private insurance, my max out of pocket for any year was $750. I consider that very good and don't need the government fucking it up for the sake of someone else.

You were paying for the poor before, just in the stupidest,cruelest, most humiliating, deadliest way, dupe. Forcing people out of jobs and onto welfare to get Medicaid is IDIOTIC. Your old plan was probably a scam if you got really sick. Now you know how much good care, guaranteed and with annual cap, ACTUALLY COSTS and we can start bringing the cost down. If Pubs and their insurer/Big Health/Pharma cronies stop the sabotage.

Forcing someone that earns what they have to fund something for someone that doesn't earn it is IDIOTIC.

Typical Democrat retard making claims about something someone has for which they know nothing about. I can make the statement about my healthcare before your home boy was President from experience. It paid every time.

Your BOY lied about healthcare and what people could keep if they liked it yet you want us to believe what he says is true. Only an idiot would believe him.

I don't have a problem putting out what needs to be put out and Obamacare is one of those things.

Well then we'll cut your taxes to nothing, angry white dupe. lol

 

[Conservative65]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

Many consider me to be conservative and, as is, I think our health care system in the USA is fucked up beyond repair. And it was that way even before the ACA fucked it up even worse than it was.

The USA should go to a single payer system IMO. There are other countries that brag about their universal heath care. The USA could make them all look silly.

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending. By phasing out private insurance over a period of years and transferring into to a single payer system, we could see a significant decrease in healthcare costs.

There is little competition between insurance companies and even less cost control. Their claims processing is more expensive than single payer and sucks billions of dollars out the system each year.

Who the hell do you think is funding those subsidies? It isn't the government. The ONLY way the government has the money is by taking it from someone that actually had to do something to earn it. See, the government provides no service nor produces any product that brings in revenue.

Under private insurance, my max out of pocket for any year was $750. I consider that very good and don't need the government fucking it up for the sake of someone else.

By private insurance, do you mean insurance through your employer. I haven't seen any plan available to individuals with a deductible as low as $750.

I said max out of pocket not deductible. The deductible is higher. My employer pays the difference between the max and the deductible for the employees. What interesting is that my premiums costs me nothing. They are paid on my behalf by my employer because I am a valuable employee. It's private because my employer is a privately owned business.

 

[Conservative65]

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending. By phasing out private insurance over a period of years and transferring into to a single payer system, we could see a significant decrease in healthcare costs.

There is little competition between insurance companies and even less cost control. Their claims processing is more expensive than single payer and sucks billions of dollars out the system each year.

Who the hell do you think is funding those subsidies? It isn't the government. The ONLY way the government has the money is by taking it from someone that actually had to do something to earn it. See, the government provides no service nor produces any product that brings in revenue.

Under private insurance, my max out of pocket for any year was $750. I consider that very good and don't need the government fucking it up for the sake of someone else.

You were paying for the poor before, just in the stupidest,cruelest, most humiliating, deadliest way, dupe. Forcing people out of jobs and onto welfare to get Medicaid is IDIOTIC. Your old plan was probably a scam if you got really sick. Now you know how much good care, guaranteed and with annual cap, ACTUALLY COSTS and we can start bringing the cost down. If Pubs and their insurer/Big Health/Pharma cronies stop the sabotage.

Forcing someone that earns what they have to fund something for someone that doesn't earn it is IDIOTIC.

Typical Democrat retard making claims about something someone has for which they know nothing about. I can make the statement about my healthcare before your home boy was President from experience. It paid every time.

Your BOY lied about healthcare and what people could keep if they liked it yet you want us to believe what he says is true. Only an idiot would believe him.

I don't have a problem putting out what needs to be put out and Obamacare is one of those things.

Well then we'll cut your taxes to nothing, angry white dupe. lol

If you cut out all the stupid social welfare and redistribution of wealth programs you idiot Liberals have put in place, my taxes would go down to where they should be by nothing more than government getting out of things it shouldn't be a part of.

 

[healthmyths]

Many consider me to be conservative and, as is, I think our health care system in the USA is fucked up beyond repair. And it was that way even before the ACA fucked it up even worse than it was.

The USA should go to a single payer system IMO. There are other countries that brag about their universal heath care. The USA could make them all look silly.

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending. By phasing out private insurance over a period of years and transferring into to a single payer system, we could see a significant decrease in healthcare costs.

There is little competition between insurance companies and even less cost control. Their claims processing is more expensive than single payer and sucks billions of dollars out the system each year.

Who the hell do you think is funding those subsidies? It isn't the government. The ONLY way the government has the money is by taking it from someone that actually had to do something to earn it. See, the government provides no service nor produces any product that brings in revenue.

Under private insurance, my max out of pocket for any year was $750. I consider that very good and don't need the government fucking it up for the sake of someone else.

You were paying for the poor before, just in the stupidest,cruelest, most humiliating, deadliest way, dupe. Forcing people out of jobs and onto welfare to get Medicaid is IDIOTIC. Your old plan was probably a scam if you got really sick. Now you know how much good care, guaranteed and with annual cap, ACTUALLY COSTS and we can start bringing the cost down. If Pubs and their insurer/Big Health/Pharma cronies stop the sabotage.

Forcing someone that earns what they have to fund something for someone that doesn't earn it is IDIOTIC.

Typical Democrat retard making claims about something someone has for which they know nothing about. I can make the statement about my healthcare before your home boy was President from experience. It paid every time.

Your BOY lied about healthcare and what people could keep if they liked it yet you want us to believe what he says is true. Only an idiot would believe him.

I don't have a problem putting out what needs to be put out and Obamacare is one of those things.

What do you mean by "I don't have a problem putting out what needs to be put out and Obamacare is one of those things."?

 

[healthmyths]

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?

I am. Not banned, though. It should be up to the employer what benefits they choose to give to their employees.

If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. I said take away the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. The money an employer is spending on employee insurance is employee income, and right now it is exempt from income tax. It shouldn't be.

It is government interference in the free market, and it is massively distorting the market as a result, bending the cost curve up. It is government wealth redistribution and behavior modification.

Taking away the tax exemption will dis-incentivize employers from sponsoring health insurance, which should be the goal.

Well that's what Trump is after to give the employees their OWN tax deductible health insurance, which is fine with me!
From Trump's health plan...Healthcare Reform

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.
Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?
As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance.
We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

 

[francoHFW]

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?

I am. Not banned, though. It should be up to the employer what benefits they choose to give to their employees.

If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. I said take away the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. The money an employer is spending on employee insurance is employee income, and right now it is exempt from income tax. It shouldn't be.

It is government interference in the free market, and it is massively distorting the market as a result, bending the cost curve up. It is government wealth redistribution and behavior modification.

Taking away the tax exemption will dis-incentivize employers from sponsoring health insurance, which should be the goal.

Well that's what Trump is after to give the employees their OWN tax deductible health insurance, which is fine with me!
From Trump's health plan...Healthcare Reform

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.
Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?
As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance.
We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

We already did- It's called Obamacare.

 

[g5000]

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?

I am. Not banned, though. It should be up to the employer what benefits they choose to give to their employees.

If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. I said take away the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. The money an employer is spending on employee insurance is employee income, and right now it is exempt from income tax. It shouldn't be.

It is government interference in the free market, and it is massively distorting the market as a result, bending the cost curve up. It is government wealth redistribution and behavior modification.

Taking away the tax exemption will dis-incentivize employers from sponsoring health insurance, which should be the goal.

Well that's what Trump is after to give the employees their OWN tax deductible health insurance, which is fine with me!
From Trump's health plan...Healthcare Reform

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.
Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?
As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance.
We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

I am opposed to all tax exemptions. They are federal subsidies and need to go away, period. There should be NO tax exemptions for employers or employees. They are theft from other people's pockets.

 

[TooTall]

Exactly. But if more people have access to health insurance (and if more clinics had the common sense to stay open on nights and weekends), there'd be more efficient ways for people to be treated for minor problems.

Urgent care centers in hospitals and clinics are popping up all over the country. The good ones have access to much of the diagnostic capabilities of emergency rooms but have far less overhead because they don't deal with the trauma and life and death emergencies.

One of the major reasons people go to emergency rooms is they can often accomplish more in 3 or 4 hours than your family doctor and associated specialist will accomplish in a month.

In so many clinic environments, a cancer diagnosis or a heart problem can take weeks to diagnosis as the patient waits for appointments with specialists, labs, diagnostic imaging etc and those weeks can be critical to good outcome.

If you are you saying that urgent care centers have cancer specialists and cardiologists on staff you would be wrong.

I'm saying urgent care facilities in hospitals have access to diagnostic facilities not available in doctors offices and can provide faster turnaround. They do treatments and diagnostic testing that's not commonly done in your doctors office such as administering IVs, wound care, diagnostic imaging, EKG', etc. I've found that today, there is very little done in doctor's office other than examination, referrals, ordering of tests done in other facilities, and writing prescriptions. Good urgent care centers in hospitals are or should be a step between your doctor's office and the ER.

I do not know of any urgent care centers that are located IN a hospital. My doctor has an X-ray machine and has to send me to a specialist for diagnostic imaging, EKG etc. The Urgent care center in the same building has to do the same thing. The only advantage I found is the Urgent care center is walk in and wait while I need an appointment to see my Doctor.

There are urgent care centers in some hospital. I've found urgent care centers found commonly in shopping centers are good for a handful of pills, inoculations, advice, and referral to an emergency room.

I can only speak for the state of Georgia where there are 492 FREE healthcare clinics and a lot of Urgent Care centers, as you say, in shopping centers, etc. I found NO urgent care centers in Hospitals, but like I said, that is only in Georgia.

 

[Flopper]

How do we fix our healthcare woes?

Take away the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance (ESHI). ESHI bends the cost curve of health care up. It is a massive boondoggle that needs to go away. Instead of mandating employers provide health insurance like ObamaCare does, we should dis-incentivize it.

You are a hostage to your employer's health plan. It is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. You have ZERO bargaining leverage. In turn, small employers have little to no leverage with the insurance companies. And if one person in a small business runs up large medical bills, the premiums of every employee skyrockets.

In turn, the insurance company is hostage to the medical provider in that geographical area.

This is one seriously screwed up way to run health care, and is yet another example of how tax expenditures distort the living shit out of the free market.

You should be buying your health insurance the same way you buy all your other insurance. You pick up the phone and call ANY insurance provider in the country, and you decide what options you want.

Q: What is the big difference between health insurance and every other kind of insurance?

A: The government is the biggest player in the health insurance market, and it gets to write the rules for its competitors! That's unfair competition staring you right in the face, boys and girls.

The government is not a big player in the auto, life, or home insurance markets. It shouldn't be in the health insurance market, either.

When you are able to pick up the phone and call any insurance company you wish, then you have maximum market leverage. That has been stolen from you by the government, and by the labor unions who want you penned up in a take-it-or-leave-it bullshit situation at your job.

What's more, when you lose or quit your job, or transfer to another company, you lose your health insurance, and you lose the benefits of long term customer discounts. This does not happen to you with all your other insurance.

I agree with your point that employers shouldn't be providing health insurance. It was a bad idea from the get go. By the time employers realized in 1980's, they should not be in the healthcare business, it was too late. Labor unions, competition from other employers, and state laws made it very difficult to drop health insurance.

I'd strongly urge you to read this as I have! Then get back to me about employers' insurance plans.
https://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Files/Downloads/mlr-report-02-15-2013.pdf

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?
If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.
View attachment 66379

Before Obamacare, a lot of people could not get insurance except through an employer and if you wanted to start your own business or retire early preexisting conditions were a problem. Also, it was almost impossible to compare individual policies. Today the plans are pretty standard and insurance is available to everyone. It's just a matter of picking the deductible, copay, out of pocket max, and the plan that includes your healthcare providers.

Insurance is usually cheaper through an employer than the exchanges but that's because, the employer is often paying part of the cost and employer plans keep younger healthier customers away from exchanges which drive up the costs on the exchanges.

I don't see the need for employer sponsored plans. Every time you change employers you have to start on a new plan which means a new deductible to meet and you often have very limited choices. When the employer changes the plans, you are often stuck with whatever he chooses to offer.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

Read his lips! Obama fixed and you are to never question the will of your master ever again. Let us not forget that he is still your superior until 2016.

 

[Flopper]

Urgent care centers in hospitals and clinics are popping up all over the country. The good ones have access to much of the diagnostic capabilities of emergency rooms but have far less overhead because they don't deal with the trauma and life and death emergencies.

One of the major reasons people go to emergency rooms is they can often accomplish more in 3 or 4 hours than your family doctor and associated specialist will accomplish in a month.

In so many clinic environments, a cancer diagnosis or a heart problem can take weeks to diagnosis as the patient waits for appointments with specialists, labs, diagnostic imaging etc and those weeks can be critical to good outcome.

If you are you saying that urgent care centers have cancer specialists and cardiologists on staff you would be wrong.

I'm saying urgent care facilities in hospitals have access to diagnostic facilities not available in doctors offices and can provide faster turnaround. They do treatments and diagnostic testing that's not commonly done in your doctors office such as administering IVs, wound care, diagnostic imaging, EKG', etc. I've found that today, there is very little done in doctor's office other than examination, referrals, ordering of tests done in other facilities, and writing prescriptions. Good urgent care centers in hospitals are or should be a step between your doctor's office and the ER.

I do not know of any urgent care centers that are located IN a hospital. My doctor has an X-ray machine and has to send me to a specialist for diagnostic imaging, EKG etc. The Urgent care center in the same building has to do the same thing. The only advantage I found is the Urgent care center is walk in and wait while I need an appointment to see my Doctor.

There are urgent care centers in some hospital. I've found urgent care centers found commonly in shopping centers are good for a handful of pills, inoculations, advice, and referral to an emergency room.

I can only speak for the state of Georgia where there are 492 FREE healthcare clinics and a lot of Urgent Care centers, as you say, in shopping centers, etc. I found NO urgent care centers in Hospitals, but like I said, that is only in Georgia.

I'm in the Seattle area. About half the hospitals have urgent care centers.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

How do we fix our healthcare woes?

Take away the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance (ESHI). ESHI bends the cost curve of health care up. It is a massive boondoggle that needs to go away. Instead of mandating employers provide health insurance like ObamaCare does, we should dis-incentivize it.

You are a hostage to your employer's health plan. It is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. You have ZERO bargaining leverage. In turn, small employers have little to no leverage with the insurance companies. And if one person in a small business runs up large medical bills, the premiums of every employee skyrockets.

In turn, the insurance company is hostage to the medical provider in that geographical area.

This is one seriously screwed up way to run health care, and is yet another example of how tax expenditures distort the living shit out of the free market.

You should be buying your health insurance the same way you buy all your other insurance. You pick up the phone and call ANY insurance provider in the country, and you decide what options you want.

Q: What is the big difference between health insurance and every other kind of insurance?

A: The government is the biggest player in the health insurance market, and it gets to write the rules for its competitors! That's unfair competition staring you right in the face, boys and girls.

The government is not a big player in the auto, life, or home insurance markets. It shouldn't be in the health insurance market, either.

When you are able to pick up the phone and call any insurance company you wish, then you have maximum market leverage. That has been stolen from you by the government, and by the labor unions who want you penned up in a take-it-or-leave-it bullshit situation at your job.

What's more, when you lose or quit your job, or transfer to another company, you lose your health insurance, and you lose the benefits of long term customer discounts. This does not happen to you with all your other insurance.

I agree with your point that employers shouldn't be providing health insurance. It was a bad idea from the get go. By the time employers realized in 1980's, they should not be in the healthcare business, it was too late. Labor unions, competition from other employers, and state laws made it very difficult to drop health insurance.

I'd strongly urge you to read this as I have! Then get back to me about employers' insurance plans.
https://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Files/Downloads/mlr-report-02-15-2013.pdf

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?
If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.
View attachment 66379

Before Obamacare, a lot of people could not get insurance except through an employer and if you wanted to start your own business or retire early preexisting conditions were a problem. Also, it was almost impossible to compare individual policies. Today the plans are pretty standard and insurance is available to everyone. It's just a matter of picking the deductible, copay, out of pocket max, and the plan that includes your healthcare providers.

Insurance is usually cheaper through an employer than the exchanges but that's because, the employer is often paying part of the cost and employer plans keep younger healthier customers away from exchanges which drive up the costs on the exchanges.

I don't see the need for employer sponsored plans. Every time you change employers you have to start on a new plan which means a new deductible to meet and you often have very limited choices. When the employer changes the plans, you are often stuck with whatever he chooses to offer.

I kind of like it how it was before when I didn't have to buy any of their shitty policies.

 

[9aces]

Let them be stupid enough to have Obamacare applied to businesses.

Or haven't you noticed EVERY politician has run from enforcing that.