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Russia plans to hold several accession referendums in Ukraine

gipper

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If a millionaire news anchor tells me Russia sucks, that means Russia is awesome?
Effectively demonizing Russia to the masses can be difficult in the streaming era. It’s hard to get people to pay attention to your propaganda these days. Even with the fabulous pan-government efforts during Covid-19, the results were not only mixed, but a portion of the populations are now permanently immune to future similar state messaging.

Joe insisted that Germany and other countries sanction Russia gas, a ploy that only raised Russia’s profits, as it did other oil and gas exporters (like the US). In a world of diffuse political parties and diffuse sources of information, US and NATO (apologies for the repetition) saying how helpful all of this is for Germany isn’t working. Germans themselves see and understand the reality of power; they know what the phrase “short end of a stick” means. Certainly the 2.7 million Turks, and other immigrants in the growing German underclass understand it from past experience.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Effectively demonizing Russia to the masses can be difficult in the streaming era. It’s hard to get people to pay attention to your propaganda these days. Even with the fabulous pan-government efforts during Covid-19, the results were not only mixed, but a portion of the populations are now permanently immune to future similar state messaging.

Joe insisted that Germany and other countries sanction Russia gas, a ploy that only raised Russia’s profits, as it did other oil and gas exporters (like the US). In a world of diffuse political parties and diffuse sources of information, US and NATO (apologies for the repetition) saying how helpful all of this is for Germany isn’t working. Germans themselves see and understand the reality of power; they know what the phrase “short end of a stick” means. Certainly the 2.7 million Turks, and other immigrants in the growing German underclass understand it from past experience.

Effectively demonizing Russia to the masses can be difficult in the streaming era.

I know Russia sucks, do you?

US and NATO (apologies for the repetition) saying how helpful all of this is for Germany isn’t working.

How helpful all of what is for Germany?
 

gipper

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Effectively demonizing Russia to the masses can be difficult in the streaming era.

I know Russia sucks, do you?

US and NATO (apologies for the repetition) saying how helpful all of this is for Germany isn’t working.

How helpful all of what is for Germany?
I know you suck and you’re uninformed.

Ron Unz noted that the entire American middle class now hovers on the brink of insolvency,[16]
https://www.unz.com/lromanoff/life-in-a-failed-state-part-1/#footnote_16
but may have oversimplified in blaming the cost of foreign wars. Privatisations, bank bailouts and other factors bear much responsibility here; the middle class safely survived the Vietnam war and dozens of other expensive military adventures. The root cause is the deliberate launching of a class war, the conscious determination to drain and eliminate the middle class as a class. As bizarre as that statement may seem, the facts are everywhere and especially the FED’s policies can be interpreted in no other way. Deregulation, corporate tax changes, the massive deindustrialisation and outsourcing, Greenspan’s “greater worker insecurity”, Volker’s astonishingly vicious recession, the financialisation of the economy, were all carefully and deliberately planned as a coordinated effort, the eventual results of which were entirely predictable from the beginning.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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I know you suck and you’re uninformed.

Ron Unz noted that the entire American middle class now hovers on the brink of insolvency,[16]
Life in a Failed State — Part 1
but may have oversimplified in blaming the cost of foreign wars. Privatisations, bank bailouts and other factors bear much responsibility here; the middle class safely survived the Vietnam war and dozens of other expensive military adventures. The root cause is the deliberate launching of a class war, the conscious determination to drain and eliminate the middle class as a class. As bizarre as that statement may seem, the facts are everywhere and especially the FED’s policies can be interpreted in no other way. Deregulation, corporate tax changes, the massive deindustrialisation and outsourcing, Greenspan’s “greater worker insecurity”, Volker’s astonishingly vicious recession, the financialisation of the economy, were all carefully and deliberately planned as a coordinated effort, the eventual results of which were entirely predictable from the beginning.

Privatisations, bank bailouts and other factors bear much responsibility here

What privatizations?

The bank bailouts (TARP) that were repaid at a huge profit to the Treasury? How did TARP make the middle class insolvent?
 

toomuchtime_

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Your ignorance is truly Trumpian:

Life expectancy of Russian men falls to 58

"The transition to market economies in many post-communist societies of the former Soviet Union and other former eastern bloc countries in Europe has a produced a 'demographic collapse,' a recent report by the United Nations Development Programme has found.

"Among the most serious findings is a four year drop in life expectancy among Russian men since 1980, from 62 years to 58.

"The development programme’s report also noted significant drops in life expectancy in Armenia, Belarus, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania, and Romania.

"The immediate cause of the rising mortality, said the report, is the 'rise in self-destructive behaviour, especially among men.'

"Old problems such as alcoholism have increased; drug misusea relatively new problem in the former communist blochas risen dramatically in recent years.

"The report Transition 1999 stated that suicide rates have climbed steeply too, by 60%in Russia, 80%in Lithuania, and 95%in Latvia since 1989."
Irrelevant to my point that the other former soviet states were more successful than Russia in achieving democracy and market based economies. Today, the Russian economy lags behind most of the other former soviet states.
 

AlexanderPK

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Irrelevant to my point that the other former soviet states were more successful than Russia in achieving democracy and market based economies. Today, the Russian economy lags behind most of the other former soviet states.
That's why all of them work in Russia as guest workers, right?
 

toomuchtime_

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3ea946a9-794d-4ebd-96c1-af244c3de499

"The background and implications of the 2014 far-right coup in Kiev, which overthrew the pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych, is critical for understanding the current Ukraine-Russia war.

"This coup was openly supported by US and European imperialism and implemented primarily by far-right shock troops such as the Right Sector and the neo-Nazi Svoboda Party.

"It represented the temporary culmination of long-standing efforts by US imperialism to install a puppet regime on the borders of Russia and brought the world a major step closer to a war between the largest nuclear powers, the US and Russia.

"Ukraine has since been systematically built up as a launching pad for a NATO war against Russia."

The 2014 coup in Ukraine
Your point being that you are not the only idiot who posts such nonsense. The fact remains that the US and EU expressed their hope that Ukraine would be able to remain an independent democracy and nothing else, but Russia invaded Ukraine to try to prevent this.
 

toomuchtime_

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That's why all of them work in Russia as guest workers, right?
No, but that's why so many Russians are emigrating to western countries.
 

AlexanderPK

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No, but that's why so many Russians are emigrating to western countries.
How can a real Russian live with the perverts that you are? There was a time, maybe, under Yeltsin, when people out of desperation that reigned then fled the country in search of a better life but nowadays many of them are looking for ways to get back home.
 

georgephillip

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Another idiot like yourself makes false claims about what happened. First, the government was not overthrown; Yanukovych was voted out of office by the parliament, and new elections were held in a few months and Poroshenko was elected president. Second, there are no facts to support your claim that the US did anymore than express a preference for Ukraine to begin to join the EU.
"The second landmark item of evidence that it had been a coup and nothing at all democratic or a ‘revolution’, was the 26 February 2014 phone-conversation between the EU’s Foreign Minister Catherine Ashton and her agent in Ukraine investigating whether the overthrow had been a revolution or instead a coup; he was Estonia’s Foreign Minister, Urmas Paet, and he told her that he found that it had been a coup, and that 'somebody from the new coalition' had engineered it — but he didn’t know whom that 'somebody' was.

How and why the U.S. Government Perpetrated the 2014 Coup in Ukraine

"Both Ashton and Paet were shocked at this finding, but they proceeded immediately to ignore that matter, and to discuss only the prospects for Europe’s investors in Ukraine, to be able to get their money back — their obsession was Ukraine’s corruption.

"Ashton told Paet that she had herself told the Maidan demonstrators, 'you need to find ways in which you can establish a process that will have anti-corruption at its heart.'

"So, though the EU was unhappy that this had been a coup, they were far more concerned to protect their investors.

"In any case, the EU clearly wasn’t behind Ukraine’s coup.

"Equally clearly, they didn’t much care whether it was a coup or instead what the U.S. Government said, a ‘revolution’."
 

toomuchtime_

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How can a real Russian live with the perverts that you are? There was a time, maybe, under Yeltsin, when people out of desperation that reigned then fled the country in search of a better life but nowadays many of them are looking for ways to get back home.
Russians have been emigrating from Russia in record number for years now and most of those who have chosen to go back are those who emigrated to Israel and then learned their business interests were in jeopardy.

Now, of course, Russians are leaving in huge numbers to escape Putin's insanity.
 

toomuchtime_

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"The second landmark item of evidence that it had been a coup and nothing at all democratic or a ‘revolution’, was the 26 February 2014 phone-conversation between the EU’s Foreign Minister Catherine Ashton and her agent in Ukraine investigating whether the overthrow had been a revolution or instead a coup; he was Estonia’s Foreign Minister, Urmas Paet, and he told her that he found that it had been a coup, and that 'somebody from the new coalition' had engineered it — but he didn’t know whom that 'somebody' was.

How and why the U.S. Government Perpetrated the 2014 Coup in Ukraine

"Both Ashton and Paet were shocked at this finding, but they proceeded immediately to ignore that matter, and to discuss only the prospects for Europe’s investors in Ukraine, to be able to get their money back — their obsession was Ukraine’s corruption.

"Ashton told Paet that she had herself told the Maidan demonstrators, 'you need to find ways in which you can establish a process that will have anti-corruption at its heart.'

"So, though the EU was unhappy that this had been a coup, they were far more concerned to protect their investors.

"In any case, the EU clearly wasn’t behind Ukraine’s coup.

"Equally clearly, they didn’t much care whether it was a coup or instead what the U.S. Government said, a ‘revolution’."
Again, you are ignoring the facts and quoting another idiot like yourself. There clearly was no coup and there is no evidence the US or EU did anything more than to express their preference for Ukraine to remain an independent democracy.
 

georgephillip

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The protesters were angry. First they were angry because

" The protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption, the influence of oligarchs,[85] abuse of power, and violation of human rights in Ukraine.[86] Transparency International named Yanukovych as the top example of corruption in the world.[87] The violent dispersal of protesters on 30 November caused further anger.[5"
What percentage of Ukrainians were protesting in 2014?
Is that number larger than the percentage who elected Yanukovych in 2010?
Many Ukrainians did NOT want to sacrifice their standards of living and natural resources in order to obtain an IMF loan; they preferred the terms Putin was offering.
 

georgephillip

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Even if you believe the US installed Poroshenko in 2014, it's moot. Zelensky defeated Poroshenko in 2019 in a landslide. Observers said it was a fair and competitive election, and most of the claims of impropriety were leveled at Poroshenko, not at Zelensky.

Zelensky was elected by Ukrainians. The Trump administration did not interfere in that election, and the dems were not in a position to. Meaning Zelensky is not a US puppet- if anything, he defeated the US puppet.
There's nothing moot about an illegal coup that installed a succession of US/NATO/IMF puppets in Ukraine; Zelensky is simply the most recent example.

Although US propaganda would have you believe Zelensky is a cross between Winston Churchill and Mother Teresa, in reality he's another corrupt politician serving an even more venal billionaire named Ihor Kholomoisky whom the US state department banned from entering the US in 2021 due to his "significant corruption."

How corrupt is Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky? | MR Online

"Zelensky capitalized on widespread public anger at corruption, but his 2019 campaign was dogged by doubts over his anti-graft bona fides given his connection to Kholomoisky.

"In the heat of the campaign, an ally of incumbent Petro Poroshenko, Volodymyr Ariev, published a chart on Facebook purporting to show that Zelensky and his television production partners were beneficiaries of a web of offshore firms, which they had set up beginning in 2012, that allegedly received $41 million in funds from Kholomoisky’s Privatbank."
 

georgephillip

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As always with you, bullshit. There are simply no facts to support your bullshit support for Yanukovych. He left because he knew he couldn't win.
It's a fact that Svoboda thugs and the newly formed Right Sector militia led by Dmytro Yarosh rejected the 21 February 2014 agreement negotiated by the French, German, and Polish foreign ministers under which Yanukovych and opposition political leaders agreed to hold new elections later that year.

Right Sector refused to disarm and led the march on Parliament that forced Yanukovych to flee for his life.

How the U.S. Has Empowered and Armed 'Neo-Nazis' in Ukraine - IDN-InDepthNews | Analysis That Matters

"Since 1991, Ukrainian elections had swung back and forth between leaders like President Viktor Yanukovych, who was from Donetsk and had close ties with Russia, and Western-backed leaders like President Yushchenko, who was elected in 2005 after the 'Orange Revolution' that followed a disputed election.

"Ukraine’s endemic corruption-tainted every government, and rapid public disillusionment with whichever leader and the party won power led to a see-saw between Western- and Russian-aligned factions."
 

georgephillip

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Irrelevant to my point that the other former soviet states were more successful than Russia in achieving democracy and market based economies. Today, the Russian economy lags behind most of the other former soviet states.
"The development programme’s report also noted significant drops in life expectancy in Armenia, Belarus, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania, and Romania. The immediate cause of the rising mortality, said the report, is the 'rise in self-destructive behaviour, especially among men.'

"Old problems such as alcoholism have increased; drug misusea relatively new problem in the former communist blochas risen dramatically in recent years. The report Transition 1999 stated that suicide rates have climbed steeply too, by 60%in Russia, 80%in Lithuania, and 95%in Latvia since 1989."

Life expectancy of Russian men falls to 58
 

AlexanderPK

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Russians have been emigrating from Russia in record number for years now and most of those who have chosen to go back are those who emigrated to Israel and then learned their business interests were in jeopardy.

Now, of course, Russians are leaving in huge numbers to escape Putin's insanity.
Those numbers are around a 100 thou of Navalny trash we don't need here anyway. You've got to remember also that 2 plus million of Americans fled to Canada to avoid conscription during the Vietnam war and more than 8 million of uks escaped the country for the similar reason. So I wouldn't flash that argument if I were you, it's not in your favor.
 

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