Russia plans to hold several accession referendums in Ukraine

[alexa]

Those numbers are around a 100 thou of Navalny trash we don't need here anyway. You've got to remember also that 2 plus million of Americans fled to Canada to avoid conscription during the Vietnam war and more than 8 million of uks escaped the country for the similar reason. So I wouldn't flash that argument if I were you, it's not in your favor.

This is a seriously wrong piece of propaganda. The UK did not fight in the Vietnam war.

 

[AlexanderPK]

This is a seriously wrong piece of propaganda. The UK did not fight in the Vietnam war.

The Uks are Hohols, Ukes, Ukrs or you may, if so wish to, call them Ukrainians that left their motherland since 24th of February.

 

[toomuchtime_]

What percentage of Ukrainians were protesting in 2014?
Is that number larger than the percentage who elected Yanukovych in 2010?
Many Ukrainians did NOT want to sacrifice their standards of living and natural resources in order to obtain an IMF loan; they preferred the terms Putin was offering.

You continue to invent statistics to suit your purposes.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It's a fact that Svoboda thugs and the newly formed Right Sector militia led by Dmytro Yarosh rejected the 21 February 2014 agreement negotiated by the French, German, and Polish foreign ministers under which Yanukovych and opposition political leaders agreed to hold new elections later that year.

Right Sector refused to disarm and led the march on Parliament that forced Yanukovych to flee for his life.

How the U.S. Has Empowered and Armed 'Neo-Nazis' in Ukraine - IDN-InDepthNews | Analysis That Matters

"Since 1991, Ukrainian elections had swung back and forth between leaders like President Viktor Yanukovych, who was from Donetsk and had close ties with Russia, and Western-backed leaders like President Yushchenko, who was elected in 2005 after the 'Orange Revolution' that followed a disputed election.

"Ukraine’s endemic corruption-tainted every government, and rapid public disillusionment with whichever leader and the party won power led to a see-saw between Western- and Russian-aligned factions."

Again, there is no basis in fact for claiming Yanukovych fled to save his life rather than just leaving because he lacked support to run in the new elections.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Those numbers are around a 100 thou of Navalny trash we don't need here anyway. You've got to remember also that 2 plus million of Americans fled to Canada to avoid conscription during the Vietnam war and more than 8 million of uks escaped the country for the similar reason. So I wouldn't flash that argument if I were you, it's not in your favor.

Increasingly large numbers of Russians have been emigrating to western nations for years before this war because they want the freedom and economic opportunities they West offers and that Russia cannot.

The fundamental difference between liberal democracies, which you claim to hate, and authoritarian governments like Russia is that in liberal democracies individuals have rights but in authoritarian governments like Russia, the people have collective rights but not individual rights. In simpler terms, in the West, the state exists to serve the needs of the people, but in authoritarian governments like Russia the people exist to serve the state. Self interest would determine that most people are better served by living in a liberal democracy.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Increasingly large numbers of Russians have been emigrating to western nations for years before this war because they want the freedom and economic opportunities they West offers and that Russia cannot.

The fundamental difference between liberal democracies, which you claim to hate, and authoritarian governments like Russia is that in liberal democracies individuals have rights but in authoritarian governments like Russia, the people have collective rights but not individual rights. In simpler terms, in the West, the state exists to serve the needs of the people, but in authoritarian governments like Russia the people exist to serve the state. Self interest would determine that most people are better served by living in a liberal democracy.

When I hear "liberal" it makes me wanna retch.

 

[georgephillip]

You continue to invent statistics to suit your purposes.

Then why don't you provide any specific examples?

2010 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia

"Presidential elections were held in Ukraine on 17 January 2010.

"As no candidate received a majority of the vote, a run-off election was held between Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko and opposition leader Viktor Yanukovych on 7 February.

"On 14 February Yanukovych was declared President-elect and winner with 48.95% of the popular vote."

Almost 12.5 million voters preferred the corrupt Yanukovych to the equally venal Tymoshenko.

Many of the majority rejected the "investor friendly" conditionalities of the IMF and backed maintaining close economic ties with their neighbor Russia:

"Breaking off negotiations with the IMF was tantamount to escaping the hegemony not just of international capital intent on imposing a neo-liberal regime, but of the Western imperialist powers, especially the U.S., and hence the NATO.

"In other words, NATO and the IMF were not seen as distinct organisations, each working in its own sphere of operation, with its own objective; but organisations with similar and overlapping objectives.

"The U.S., peeved at Yanukovych’s temerity at turning to Russia instead of the IMF, decided to restrict further 'damage', and he was overthrown in a U.S.-sponsored coup which was carried out with the assistance of the Nazi elements in Ukraine that had been in the forefront of anti-Yanukovych demonstrations in the run up to the coup."

The IMF connection with the Ukraine crisis | MR Online

THE security concerns of Russia arising from Ukraine’s intentions of joining NATO have been widely discussed in the media. But the IMF’s link with Ukraine which is a parallel issue has scarcely received much attention.

mronline.org

 

[georgephillip]

Again, there is no basis in fact for claiming Yanukovych fled to save his life rather than just leaving because he lacked support to run in the new elections.

"On 21 February, an agreement between President Yanukovych and the leaders of the parliamentary opposition was signed that called for the formation of an interim unity government, constitutional reforms and early elections.[32]

"The following day, police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city.[33]

"That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office by 328 to 0 (72.8% of the parliament's 450 members).[34][35][36][32]"

Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia

 

[toomuchtime_]

Then why don't you provide any specific examples?

2010 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia

"Presidential elections were held in Ukraine on 17 January 2010.

"As no candidate received a majority of the vote, a run-off election was held between Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko and opposition leader Viktor Yanukovych on 7 February.

"On 14 February Yanukovych was declared President-elect and winner with 48.95% of the popular vote."

Almost 12.5 million voters preferred the corrupt Yanukovych to the equally venal Tymoshenko.

Many of the majority rejected the "investor friendly" conditionalities of the IMF and backed maintaining close economic ties with their neighbor Russia:

"Breaking off negotiations with the IMF was tantamount to escaping the hegemony not just of international capital intent on imposing a neo-liberal regime, but of the Western imperialist powers, especially the U.S., and hence the NATO.

"In other words, NATO and the IMF were not seen as distinct organisations, each working in its own sphere of operation, with its own objective; but organisations with similar and overlapping objectives.

"The U.S., peeved at Yanukovych’s temerity at turning to Russia instead of the IMF, decided to restrict further 'damage', and he was overthrown in a U.S.-sponsored coup which was carried out with the assistance of the Nazi elements in Ukraine that had been in the forefront of anti-Yanukovych demonstrations in the run up to the coup."

The IMF connection with the Ukraine crisis | MR Online

THE security concerns of Russia arising from Ukraine’s intentions of joining NATO have been widely discussed in the media. But the IMF’s link with Ukraine which is a parallel issue has scarcely received much attention.

mronline.org

More irrelevant bullshit. By 2014, the parliament was overwhelmingly supported joining the EU and polls showed the public did also, and Yanukovych was recognized around the world as one of the most corrupt leaders in the world. However, none of this was Putin's business and attempts to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine by arguing about how they handle their internal political affairs only serves to discredit anything the Russian government says in the rest of the world.

 

[toomuchtime_]

"On 21 February, an agreement between President Yanukovych and the leaders of the parliamentary opposition was signed that called for the formation of an interim unity government, constitutional reforms and early elections.[32]

"The following day, police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city.[33]

"That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office by 328 to 0 (72.8% of the parliament's 450 members).[34][35][36][32]"

Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia

Again you have failed to produce any evidence that Yanukovych was in danger of being assassinated. He simply recognized that he had no political future in Ukraine so he moved to Russia.

 

[georgephillip]

By 2014, the parliament was overwhelmingly supported joining the EU and polls showed the public did also,

Prove it.

 

[alexa]

Prove it.

This is not proof just memory. The West of Ukraine did but the East did not.

 

[georgephillip]

This is not proof just memory. The West of Ukraine did but the East did not.

It's tempting to see two countries in Ukraine?

2010 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's tempting to see two countries in Ukraine?

How many countries in Russia?

 

[alexa]

It's tempting to see two countries in Ukraine?

2010 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia

I have been surprised that has not come up in discussions.

 

[georgephillip]

I have been surprised that has not come up in discussions.

Some believe the Berlin Wall has moved to the Dnipro River?

Dnieper River Illustrations, Royalty-Free Vector Graphics & Clip Art - iStock

 

[Litwin]

West

 

[Litwin]

Some believe the Berlin Wall has moved to the Dnipro River?

you mean some Ivans ?


say Chechnya is Cool , you slave dream on

 

[Litwin]

Ukrainians

 

[Ringo]

Voice of America @GolosAmeriki
September 29
"Vladimir Zelensky on pseudo-referendums: they are insignificant and do not change reality ."

That's for sure, only the cocaine line changes reality.