Russia issues list of demands it says must be met to lower tensions in Europe

[Ringo]

because Putin is power hungry.

He doesn't want the Ukraine to be NATO. But he's pushing the Ukraine towards NATO. Being a complete fucking bastard has the tendency of doing that.

The aggressor and imperialist always judges others by himself. The hypocrisy and arrogance of the West are boundless.

 

[Ringo]

In Ukrane the only conventional war we can win is total destruction of Ukraine from the distance, American style, without any occupation.

the Donbass militia only could defeat the Bandera Ukraine in 2014... Do you think anyone in Ukraine will seriously fight against the Russian army?

 

[frigidweirdo]

The aggressor and imperialist always judges others by himself. The hypocrisy and arrogance of the West are boundless.

Yes, maybe it is. But then this works both ways.

 

[Silver Cat]

Russia is not stronger than the US or NATO.

MAD has always kept countries at bay. Russia can't go to war with the US, because it'll lose. If it's along side China, it might stand a chance, but China isn't going to go to war with Russia, unless Russia wants to invade Taiwan.

Actually, some Russian experts believe, that they can win a nuclear war against the USA in some specific circumstances:
1. Russia declared an ultimatum as an answer on some extremely provocative American behavior.
2. Russia prepare to the first counter-force strike.
3. The USA consider Russian preparations as bluff and continue the extremely provocative behavior.
4. Russia evacuate cities and prepare ABD.
5. Western wishful-thinking politicians ignore it.
6. Russia attack and destroy at least 90% of American nuclear arsenal.
7. Russian post-attack Coercion to Peace to prevent US retaliation strike.
8. ....
9. PROFIT!!!!

 

[frigidweirdo]

Actually, some Russian experts believe, that they can win a nuclear war against the USA in some specific circumstances:
1. Russia declared an ultimatum as an answer on some extremely provocative American behavior.
2. Russia prepare to the first counter-force strike.
3. The USA consider Russian preparations as bluff and continue the extremely provocative behavior.
4. Russia evacuate cities and prepare ABD.
5. Western wishful-thinking politicians ignore it.
6. Russia attack and destroy at least 90% of American nuclear arsenal.
7. Russian post-attack Coercion to Peace to prevent US retaliation strike.
8. ....
9. PROFIT!!!!

You know the US wouldn't invade a country even half their strength.

Yes, Russia could win, you roll the dice and see what comes. But that's not going to be the basis for a war in most cases, because sometimes you roll two sixes and sometimes two ones.

 

[Siberian]

Russia can do whatever it likes. And others can retaliate against that. Russia isn't going to destroy all of the US's bases abroad because this would mean massive diplomatic issues with loads of countries and cause Russia loads of problems.

Also they'd have to know they were going to win. Otherwise Putin know he's dead at the very least. The US also has nukes and it could wipe out half of Russia just as easily.

we are talking not about reasons to start war but are measuring capacities of both sides.
the same way we may say that the West cannot fight Russia i. e. is too weak and has to give up..

 

[Siberian]

Sure it is. They've been saying that for a long time, and it's not really happening.

I and many others have been saying about recent acceleration of inflation in the West for a long time, for some time it did not happen but is happening now.

the EU will disintegrate for sure, I gave the reason, it was created being flawed, the very economic model is not sustainable.

if you say I am wrong - prove the opposite.

 

[Siberian]

You know the US wouldn't invade a country even half their strength.

Yes, Russia could win, you roll the dice and see what comes. But that's not going to be the basis for a war in most cases, because sometimes you roll two sixes and sometimes two ones.

the US will not invade Russia, the US will make Ukraibe fight Russia, while the US deals with China.
And it is vitally importsnt for the US to destroy China within next 5 years, or Chinese Yuan will substitute Dollar as the World trade and reserve currency and the US will collapse as USSR did, from within.

 

[Siberian]

the Donbass militia only could defeat the Bandera Ukraine in 2014... Do you think anyone in Ukraine will seriously fight against the Russian army?

To militarily defeat is only 1/4 of the problem.
To feed tens of thousands of Ukrainians means to reduce level of life in Russia, and it may not survive political destsbilization in recent hard times.
Putin is very causious and rightly so.

 

[Siberian]

Now the war is the war of attrition, everybody's economic situation is very bad and keeps deteriorating. The one who keeps standing while others fall - wins.

The US will disintegrate by intself if Yuan substitutes Dollar, and it is inevitable before 2030 because China will overcome the US as the World biggest economy in ~ 2027.

The EU is a dead alive and immediately after ECB starts discussing if to hyke the interest rate or bury Euro - lethal fight over printing money and subsidies will tear the EU apart.
And it will be Germany who leaves, by the way, beggars will stay till the very end, printing more and more money and accelerating inflation (ECB is controled by Eurobeggars now, not Germany) . I. e. Germany will try to avoid hyperinflation via restablishment of Deutsche Mark.

So, Russian macroeconomic and financial situation is excellent. Except that 70% of consumer goods are imported. So, cutting foreign trade can really hurt. But it will not happen because Russian energy means too much.

So, Russia wins if just waits sitting on the river bank and waiting when water brings corpces of its enemies.

The US must hurry up to destroy China, but first has to tie Russia's hands with war with Ukraine and with a conflict with Europe.

For Russia to avoid war now means to win in 5 years without doing anything. This is why Putin has been not responding to all 7 years long Ukrainian provocations. And why the US is trying to encourage Ukraine to attack Donbass now.

everything is simple.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I and many others have been saying about recent acceleration of inflation in the West for a long time, for some time it did not happen but is happening now.

the EU will disintegrate for sure, I gave the reason, it was created being flawed, the very economic model is not sustainable.

if you say I am wrong - prove the opposite.

Aren't all countries created flawed? Do other countries not have poor areas that bring down the rich areas?

The economic model of any country is going to struggle. That doesn't mean it'll fail.

 

[Siberian]

Aren't all countries created flawed? Do other countries not have poor areas that bring down the rich areas?

The economic model of any country is going to struggle. That doesn't mean it'll fail.

no, a country has unified taxes, social system, the same interest rate.

the EU has not.

A German company pays 2% on a loan, a Greek one - 10%.
Production moves to Germany.

A german salary, pension, social benefits are 4 times higher than in Bulgaria - educated and skilled Bulgarian labor moves to Germany leaving expenditures to educate it and sustain pencions behind, in Bulgaria.

Taxes incomes are not redistributed evenly, so a Bulgarian worker producing a car in Germany does not create wealth for Bulgaria or Greece.


Northern Europe destroys production of Southern and Eastern Europe, but does not share, wealth, it just gives credits to Southern and Eastern Europe to temporarily create impression that joining the EU was benefitial for them.

It cannot last long, this system is already failing.

The EU is doomed to disintegrate.

 

[Siberian]

and the most funny thing is, as usual, Ukraine, which destroyed its industry for sake of European dream even without any compensation.

When president Yanukovich postponed signing of Euroassociation treaty he was removed by a Nazi coup organized by the EU and US.

But brainless Ukrainians do not understand a thing and keep wanting to be robbed...

For ecample, Esay, do you still want to be a EU member?

 

[Silver Cat]

You know the US wouldn't invade a country even half their strength.

Yes, Russia could win, you roll the dice and see what comes. But that's not going to be the basis for a war in most cases, because sometimes you roll two sixes and sometimes two ones.

Yes, it is a basis for war only in really endangering situations: "You roll the dice and have a chance to win, or you do nothing, and lose for sure". Looks like, the Russians consider the situation exactly in that way.

 

[frigidweirdo]

no, a country has unified taxes, social system, the same interest rate.

the EU has not.

A German company pays 2% on a loan, a Greek one - 10%.
Production moves to Germany.

A german salary, pension, social benefits are 4 times higher than in Bulgaria - educated and skilled Bulgarian labor moves to Germany leaving expenditures to educate it and sustain pencions behind, in Bulgaria.

Taxes incomes are not redistributed evenly, so a Bulgarian worker producing a car in Germany does not create wealth for Bulgaria or Greece.


Northern Europe destroys production of Southern and Eastern Europe, but does not share, wealth, it just gives credits to Southern and Eastern Europe to temporarily create impression that joining the EU was benefitial for them.

It cannot last long, this system is already failing.

The EU is doomed to disintegrate.

Are you saying the US has unified taxes? It does not. Each state chooses their tax rates.

Companies move to different states all the time because they get good deals from the local government.

The US is doomed to disintegrate, and has been doomed since 1776. According to you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes, it is a basis for war only in really endangering situations: "You roll the dice and have a chance to win, or you do nothing, and lose for sure". Looks like, the Russians consider the situation exactly in that way.

Rolling the dice isn't enough reason to go to war these days. Because you could lose everything.

 

[Silver Cat]

Rolling the dice isn't enough reason to go to war these days. Because you could lose everything.

Looks like, that the Russians consider possible militarisation of Ukraine as an existential treat. So, they prefer to start a war against Ukraine (or whole NATO) and have good chances to win it, than allow the USA prepare for a war on the American terms.
So, there are list of scenarios from the safest to most risky:
1. NATO fulfil terms of NATO-Russia Pact obligation and withdraw forces from the Eastern Europe - 99% chances of peace, win-win situation.
2. A war against Ukraine on Russian terms (NATO countries are really neutral) - 95% Russia wins in few weeks without significant losses but lost money and time on rebuilding of Ukraine.
3. A limited nuclear war in Europe (the USA neutral) - 90% Russia wins, but then get stuck in the European mess for a long time, and can't make money in Pacific region.
4. A nuclear war against the USA on Russian terms, the USA consider Russian preparations to the attack as 'bluff' and 'a mere psychological war' - 70% Russia wins without significant losses, 25% - Russia wins with significant, but acceptable losses.
5. The USA continues militarisation of Ukraine and the Eastern Europe, NATO attack Russia on American terms - 100% there will be significant (tens of millions) Russia's losses, chances to win 50/50 even with a significant help from SOC countries.

The fifth option is totally unacceptable for the Russians, the first one - most acceptable for the Russians, but looks like not acceptable for some NATO leaders. All other options are on the table.

 

[ESay]

Looks like, that the Russians consider possible militarisation of Ukraine as an existential treat. So, they prefer to start a war against Ukraine (or whole NATO) and have good chances to win it, than allow the USA prepare for a war on the American terms.
So, there are list of scenarios from the safest to most risky:
1. NATO fulfil terms of NATO-Russia Pact obligation and withdraw forces from the Eastern Europe - 99% chances of peace, win-win situation.
2. A war against Ukraine on Russian terms (NATO countries are really neutral) - 95% Russia wins in few weeks without significant losses but lost money and time on rebuilding of Ukraine.
3. A limited nuclear war in Europe (the USA neutral) - 90% Russia wins, but then get stuck in the European mess for a long time, and can't make money in Pacific region.
4. A nuclear war against the USA on Russian terms, the USA consider Russian preparations to the attack as 'bluff' and 'a mere psychological war' - 70% Russia wins without significant losses, 25% - Russia wins with significant, but acceptable losses.
5. The USA continues militarisation of Ukraine and the Eastern Europe, NATO attack Russia on American terms - 100% there will be significant (tens of millions) Russia's losses, chances to win 50/50 even with a significant help from SOC countries.

The fifth option is totally unacceptable for the Russians, the first one - most acceptable for the Russians, but looks like not acceptable for some NATO leaders. All other options are on the table.

There won't be any nuclear war, no matter how you push your nonsense based on stories of your propaganda. So, label your 3-5 points as that and stop talking bullshit. Win-win solution.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Looks like, that the Russians consider possible militarisation of Ukraine as an existential treat. So, they prefer to start a war against Ukraine (or whole NATO) and have good chances to win it, than allow the USA prepare for a war on the American terms.
So, there are list of scenarios from the safest to most risky:
1. NATO fulfil terms of NATO-Russia Pact obligation and withdraw forces from the Eastern Europe - 99% chances of peace, win-win situation.
2. A war against Ukraine on Russian terms (NATO countries are really neutral) - 95% Russia wins in few weeks without significant losses but lost money and time on rebuilding of Ukraine.
3. A limited nuclear war in Europe (the USA neutral) - 90% Russia wins, but then get stuck in the European mess for a long time, and can't make money in Pacific region.
4. A nuclear war against the USA on Russian terms, the USA consider Russian preparations to the attack as 'bluff' and 'a mere psychological war' - 70% Russia wins without significant losses, 25% - Russia wins with significant, but acceptable losses.
5. The USA continues militarisation of Ukraine and the Eastern Europe, NATO attack Russia on American terms - 100% there will be significant (tens of millions) Russia's losses, chances to win 50/50 even with a significant help from SOC countries.

The fifth option is totally unacceptable for the Russians, the first one - most acceptable for the Russians, but looks like not acceptable for some NATO leaders. All other options are on the table.

Or looks like Putin knows he got away with stealing the Crimea, and thinks he can do it again. He needs a distraction from the coronavirus.... he can make one.

 

[Silver Cat]

There won't be any nuclear war, no matter how you push your nonsense based on stories of your propaganda. So, label your 3-5 points as that and stop talking bullshit. Win-win solution.

There can be two different interpretations:
1) There will be no nuclear war because nobody will provocate a nuclear state;
2) The nuclear war is unthinkable, therefore other states (nuclear and non-nuclear) may be however provocative.