Russia Formally Warns US to Stop Arming Ukraine!

[rightwinger]

Yes, it is and it was. But was it as Russia maintains so far or was it done by Ukraine?

Russia almost certainly won't claim it was by the Ukraine, but Russia's reaction will tell the true story even though it may be delayed by a week or two.

The letter could be the result of the sinking?

Russia claims it was just an “accident”

If it was an accident, why did they pull all their ships 80 miles away?
Were they afraid they would suffer the same “accident”

 

[DarthTrader]

At least everybody is lining up on the understanding that America is invincible and Russia will willingly take the hit that will destroy their country!

The only difference between that and my opinions is that I don't fear the conversation.

Who lines up on America is invincible?

I think in general that America is dumber than shit. They think if they see it on TV then that is reality. Reality is Russia is winning in Ukraine and on the global war for reserve currency and trade.

 

[rightwinger]

Winger, I believe it is all much deeper than that. 2 front wars do not work. I believe we have a choice, Ukraine, or Taiwan, and the USA along with NATO has chosen Taiwan. If we get to involved in Ukraine, China would probably pounce quickly if they do have plans to invade. Wouldn't you if your opponent(s) was tied up elsewhere?

We will not be fighting in either
We have plenty of military materiel to supply both

Taiwan would kick China’s ass

 

[Donald H]

You people are ******* retarded.

A "Flag ship" isn't the pride of your fleet, it's just where you base command and control.

The Russian pride of their fleet are the Borei submarines and the Kirov class Battle Cruisers.

The Borei (and actually the Akula) are some of the deadliest submarines in the world.

The Kirov is the toughest ship afloat. It's not built like a Slava at all. The Slava is a jury-rigged soviet era junker that had most of its weapons outboard.

Kirov has all its weapons internal and with explosion bays designed that if munitions detonate they detonate upward without damaging the hull or superstructure.

Kirov has 10x the armament that Slava has and is 4x the displacement.

A neptune would have tickled a Kirov.

Thanks for at least not running from the discussion. It's useful information but it's not exactly addressing the main question on Russia's possible reaction.

The message from Russia to America?

 

[rightwinger]

Who lines up on America is invincible?

I think in general that America is dumber than shit. They think if they see it on TV then that is reality. Reality is Russia is winning in Ukraine and on the global war for reserve currency and trade.

Baghdad Bob

 

[SC Patriot]

We will not be fighting in either
We have plenty of military materiel to supply both

Taiwan would kick China’s ass

For some reason, I don't believe you have the tactical and military knowledge and experience to make that prediction.

But I may be wrong

 

[TeeDub]

Moskva a Slava class cruiser wasn't "sunk". Stop spreading false lies.

It was apparently hit by one or 2 Neptunes (Soviet anti-ship missiles) which caused fires on the outboard munitions. Which is called damage to the superstructure and happens all the time in naval warfare. Russia or US would just fix the ship and put it back in service.

That being said, Russia knows that NATO is out of munitions and is pressing its advantage in the operational pause to tell them to "quit it".

Russia has a lot more weapons to unleash and we don't know how much a whipping boy they will turn Ukraine into.

Want to see stand-off nuclear tipped cruise missiles in action?

Want to see hypersonics destroy Lviv in a matter of minutes?

I hypothesized some time ago Russia was using and dragging out Ukraine as a whipping boy to lure NATO into bad situations. Because one misstep from Baltics and they are gone. NATO WILL NOT DEFEND THE BALTICS.

That is not a paper tiger you want to try to use in a fight and Russia knows it.

The "pride" of the russkie fleet is on the bottom fool. If you think NATO is out of ammo, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[DarthTrader]

Russia claims it was just an “accident”

If it was an accident, why did they pull all their ships 80 miles away?
Were they afraid they would suffer the same “accident”

Forestal was an accident. And the US changed its operational procedures as well.

Who says their ships are now 80 miles away? Moskva was operating near Snake Island, far away from Odessa where Neptunes are known to be based.

If you look at a map you'd see that Neptunes would have had to have driven overland in open country to the southwest to get a clear shot at Moskva's stated operational zone.

That doesn't mean they didn't, but I think it highly unlikely.

Regardless, I'd contend that 2 neptunes did hit Moskva. Ukraine is well armed. It's not a Vietnam or Iraq.

But that doesn't change the fact that the Slava has superstructure problems. Their missile tubes are exposed on the outside for **** sake. It's just another poorly thought out Soviet era junk.

Being used as a command ship is irrelevant. I think the Kirov would be better, but operationally, the Kirov is a carrier destroyer, and it needs to stay within sight of the US carrier fleet.

And, yes, a single slavo of Zirkons from Kirov would destroy an entire US Carrier battle group. So you can bet your ass that's what those BCs are doing out there. Playing interference.

 

[Donald H]

Who lines up on America is invincible?

I think in general that America is dumber than shit. They think if they see it on TV then that is reality. Reality is Russia is winning in Ukraine and on the global war for reserve currency and trade.

I hear you but I'm not fully informed enough to know for sure which side is winning.

 

[justoffal]

Russia Formally Warns US to Stop Arming Ukraine - News From Antiwar.com

Russia sent a formal diplomatic note to the US

news.antiwar.com

At this late date in the current war, does this even make sense from an American's POV? Does this serve to telegraph the real situation when all the propaganda effort is ignored?

Or is this Russia's answering to the sinking of their Missile Cruiser flag ship?
If so then it's coming sooner than I would have expected!

Can everybody accept that this is not good news and now it's critical on how America receives it. (not Biden) It's above his pay grade this time.

Am I reading too much into this article?

I've been expecting this all day.
Ukraine simply does not have the technology to make a sophisticated strike like that.
As soon as I heard about it I was pretty much 100% sure this had been done by Americans, American techs and American boots on the ground. I'm pretty sure Russia knows that too.

 

[SC Patriot]

Forestal was an accident. And the US changed its operational procedures as well.

Who says their ships are now 80 miles away? Moskva was operating near Snake Island, far away from Odessa where Neptunes are known to be based.

If you look at a map you'd see that Neptunes would have had to have driven overland in open country to the southwest to get a clear shot at Moskva's stated operational zone.

That doesn't mean they didn't, but I think it highly unlikely.

Regardless, I'd contend that 2 neptunes did hit Moskva. Ukraine is well armed. It's not a Vietnam or Iraq.

But that doesn't change the fact that the Slava has superstructure problems. Their missile tubes are exposed on the outside for **** sake. It's just another poorly thought out Soviet era junk.

Being used as a command ship is irrelevant. I think the Kirov would be better, but operationally, the Kirov is a carrier destroyer, and it needs to stay within sight of the US carrier fleet.

And, yes, a single slavo of Zirkons from Kirov would destroy an entire US Carrier battle group. So you can bet your ass that's what those BCs are doing out there. Playing interference.

wow. you seem to know a lot more than the Pentagon.

I am impressed.

 

[rightwinger]

Russia Formally Warns US to Stop Arming Ukraine!​

The US is conducting a proxy war
Just like the Soviets did in supplying N Korea and N Vietnam with weapons to fight us with

Payback is a *****

 

[Donald H]

Russia claims it was just an “accident”

If it was an accident, why did they pull all their ships 80 miles away?
Were they afraid they would suffer the same “accident”

Good point if it's actually true that they pulled all the ships further off shore?
Now you're at least becoming involved in the discussion.

And in fact there is a large amount of involvement on this thread already.

I think it's shaken some people awake!

 

[justoffal]

Forestal was an accident. And the US changed its operational procedures as well.

Who says their ships are now 80 miles away? Moskva was operating near Snake Island, far away from Odessa where Neptunes are known to be based.

If you look at a map you'd see that Neptunes would have had to have driven overland in open country to the southwest to get a clear shot at Moskva's stated operational zone.

That doesn't mean they didn't, but I think it highly unlikely.

Regardless, I'd contend that 2 neptunes did hit Moskva. Ukraine is well armed. It's not a Vietnam or Iraq.

But that doesn't change the fact that the Slava has superstructure problems. Their missile tubes are exposed on the outside for **** sake. It's just another poorly thought out Soviet era junk.

Being used as a command ship is irrelevant. I think the Kirov would be better, but operationally, the Kirov is a carrier destroyer, and it needs to stay within sight of the US carrier fleet.

And, yes, a single slavo of Zirkons from Kirov would destroy an entire US Carrier battle group. So you can bet your ass that's what those BCs are doing out there. Playing interference.

NATO did it...the rational for it was probably that the ship was in international waters not Russian territorial Waters. The fact that it was the flagship is a message. Putin must be getting a little too close to the Democrats playground. I knew this was coming today because as soon as I heard about it I knew that it was NATO that did it.

 

[DarthTrader]

We can go toe-to-toe with why the Russians are having problems with their soviet legacy. The biggest problem is that most of it is not updated.

I've been expecting this all day.
Ukraine simply does not have the technology to make a sophisticated strike like that.
Soon as I heard about it I was pretty much 100% sure this had been done by Americans, American techs and American boots on the ground. I'm pretty sure Russia knows that too.

If that's the case, Russia may do something equally concerning. They know the US will not risk nuclear escalation.

Russia has the complete advantage at the nuclear level. Unlike the US, Russia has spent 50 years building bunkers, hardened industry and power plants, massive stock piles of everything imagineable. And there's a lot of good "bunker hunters" who break into these bunkers on youtube that show you just how massive and well supplied with new equipment these bunkers are.

Russia - religiously speaking - wants a nuclear war.

Russian orthodox believes that the end times will be brought about by man's actions, not by God. I won't get into their apocalyptic views but the Russian Orthodox Church is as bad as Iranians in some ways.

 

[DarthTrader]

Good point if it's actually true that they pulled all the ships further off shore?
Now you're at least becoming involved in the discussion.

And in fact there is a large amount of involvement on this thread already.

I think it's shaken some people awake!

He makes a valid point, but not a valid argument. Because US completely changed its operation zones in Vietnam after the Forestall fire which was DEFINITELY an accidental discharge of munitions.

It usually happens because when you get burned, you start to question everything, and make adjustments to all other carelessness.

But - I don't doubt that there was possibly a strike on Moskva, but I doubt the nature of the strike. Neptunes are highly vulnerable systems and they are well exposed to Russian attack.

 

[DarthTrader]

NATO did it...the rational for it was probably that the ship was in international waters not Russian territorial Waters. The fact that it was the flagship is a message. Putin must be getting a little too close to the Democrats playground. I knew this was coming today because as soon as I heard about it I knew that it was NATO that did it.

Russia has a lot of clandestine options as well.

Expect a Neptune torpedo up your carrier's ass in the Pacific.

The world would be told it was an accidental munitions discharge that blew the carrier in half and sank her in about 30 minutes.

But....who would ever know? Would the US want to accuse Russia of actually attacking a US carrier? What would come of it? More ***** sanctions?

 

[Donald H]

I've been expecting this all day.
Ukraine simply does not have the technology to make a sophisticated strike like that.
Soon as I heard about it I was pretty much 100% sure this had been done by Americans, American techs and American boots on the ground. I'm pretty sure Russia knows that too.

You're facing up to the situation and that's much more productive then the spamming and denial.

I hear you on what you suspect is the truth but my position is that I just don't know yet.

But thanks for the acknowledgment of the letter that could be as we suspect is the possible reason.

 

[Kondor3]

Russia Formally Warns US to Stop Arming Ukraine - News From Antiwar.com

Russia sent a formal diplomatic note to the US

news.antiwar.com

At this late date in the current war, does this even make sense from an American's POV? Does this serve to telegraph the real situation when all the propaganda effort is ignored?

Or is this Russia's answering to the sinking of their Missile Cruiser flag ship?
If so then it's coming sooner than I would have expected!

Can everybody accept that this is not good news and now it's critical on how America receives it. (not Biden) It's above his pay grade this time.

Am I reading too much into this article?

Phukk the goddamned mongoloid sons-of-bitches... ignore the little wanker... full-court press...

 

[rightwinger]

For some reason, I don't believe you have the tactical and military knowledge and experience to make that prediction.

But I may be wrong

I worked for DoD for 40 years

I am aware of the difficulty of launching an amphibious assault from 90 miles away
See that ship yesterday?
China would lose many, many more