Ron Paul: "They're Terrorists Because We're Occupiers".

[The Rabbi]

Ghook's response (via rep comment) to the video I posted of Jews and other supporters of Israel celebrating the genocide of Palestinians in the streets of New York:

You are a worthless sand N#gger! I hope more of your Palestinian brothers perish in their self-destructive to die in the name of a child molester, assassin and mass murder!

Thank you for your invaluable contribution to the discussion.

Assuming he actually wrote that (and let's not forget your history of lying on this board) what does that have to do with this discussion? Or any??
And i strongly suspect you are not a worthless sand ******.

 

[Kalam]

Assuming he actually wrote that (and let's not forget your history of lying on this board) what does that have to do with this discussion? Or any??

Ghook seemed eager to start a discussion with me, so I thought that I'd provide him with an opportunity to do so. If you care, ask him yourself. He won't deny writing it.

And i strongly suspect you are not a worthless sand ******.

I may be worthless, but I happen to not be an Arab.

 

[The Rabbi]

Assuming he actually wrote that (and let's not forget your history of lying on this board) what does that have to do with this discussion? Or any??

Ghook seemed eager to start a discussion with me, so I thought that I'd provide him with an opportunity to do so. If you care, ask him yourself. He won't deny writing it.

And i strongly suspect you are not a worthless sand ******.

I may be worthless, but I happen to not be an Arab.

Could the two of you go rent a room somewhere?

I figured you weren't an Arab. Probably a kafkaz.

 

[QUENTIN]

there is no doubt that we've done some stuff that was counterproductive and enabled us to be used as recruiting posters for terrorists. but for the core group, none of it would matter....

i just don't think it should keep us from doing the right thing...even if some people get ticked off.

It's not about being nice to terrorists. It's about not being horrendous to the people who aren't terrorists. I'm not sure if people are being intentionally obtuse or just ignoring the quite unsubtle difference intentionally so they can continue to support the way we're ineffectively fighting terrorism.

The "core group" people like Osama and the most hardened and radical Islamic jihadists would be largely unswayed by a change in policy. They are legitimately insane. They are to Islam as the Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity in terms of their radicalism. But they're also a tiny, tiny fraction we wouldn't have to worry about that much if we weren't going around recruiting the rest of the Muslim World to their side for them. The 9/11 hijackers obviously weren't religious radicals, they were kids easily convinced to pick up arms against America because of the effects they'd seen of American occupation. Because when we bomb an "al Qaeda base" that turns out to be a factory producing malaria medicine for half a nation ravaged by malaria or try to bomb one radical's house and don't get him, but instead kill 78 civilians, we may not hear much about it but it's all over the news in the ME and the outrage that results is entirely legitimate and rational.

Killing civilians is always wrong, but that's true whether they do it or we do. Doing the right thing would be not implementing policies that are entirely ineffective at stopping the rise of and threat from terrorism and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, as our military response to the War on Terror has done. If we did not occupy the middle east, did not prop up dictatorships because we want to exploit their resources, did not drop bombs on civilians, then we'd have a couple hundred more tightly connected radicals that would be easy enough to combat strategically and defend against instead of the massive and increasing threat from terrorism we face. Everyone who has actually studied the subject understands this, the only people who disagree are those who disagree for strict ideological reasons and care more about projecting some childish sense of "toughness" (or just garden variety racists who think Muslims or Arabs are sub-human) than they do about actually protecting Americans from terrorism.

 

[Kalam]

I figured you weren't an Arab.

How so?

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

How is he wrong? Being occupiers certainly isn't helping things. In fact it's only making things much much worse. For example,this current President made a decision to bomb Yemen a week ago and look at what happened in response. They tried to attack us by way of the Christmas Bomber. How can so many people in this country really believe that we can go all over the world bombing & occupying but then not expect any retaliation? That just seems so bizarre and perplexing to me. They are going to retaliate and Americans should expect nothing less. What if it was your wife,mother,or child slaughtered in one of those bombings? Wouldn't you want to retaliate? Every bomb dropped has a consequence. That's just the reality.

Btw,shame on Stein for accusing Dr. Paul of being Anti-Semitic. He was losing the argument so he had to stoop and start hurling "Racism" accusations at him. Isn't that what Liberals do all the time? Stein can no longer call himself a real Conservative in my opinion. He simply resorted to using shallow Liberal race-baiting tactics and that is unforgivable. Shame Shame Mr. Stein.

What if it was your wife,mother,or child slaughtered in one of those bombings? Wouldn't you want to retaliate? Every bomb dropped has a consequence. That's just the reality.

But, but, but, but 9/11/2001 was different, waaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!




Some people just will never get it! It was incredible how thoroughly livid people in the US were over the WTC incident, and the loss of lives there. And looking back further, I remember a certain picture of a fireman carrying a child from the Murrah Building in OK City....

but some of the same sorts looking at pictures of dead Iraqi children all but went nuts with the thrill of it...

How do people not get that all these people everywhere care as much for their families, their dead and maimed as we care for ours!

 

[skookerasbil]

You know........every time I start thining about taking a closer look at Ron Paul, he goes and says something completly absurd like this......................

I love his domestic vision but in terms of foreign policy, he's beyond gone!!!

 

[kwc57]

Maybe you'd care to highlight the difference. I can't wait.

If you honestly don't know the difference, perhaps a political message board isn't the best place for you to hang out.

Translation: I really don't know either but one is good and the other is bad.

No, the translation is that if you don't know the differnce between an apple and an orange, nothing I could tell you about the difference between isolationism and non-intervention would sink in. I'd like to believe you are smarter than that, but so far things aren't looking too promising for you.

 

[kwc57]

You know........every time I start thining about taking a closer look at Ron Paul, he goes and says something completly absurd like this......................

I love his domestic vision but in terms of foreign policy, he's beyond gone!!!

Really? So you prefer neo-conservatism over traditional conservatism?

 

[The Rabbi]

If you honestly don't know the difference, perhaps a political message board isn't the best place for you to hang out.

Translation: I really don't know either but one is good and the other is bad.

No, the translation is that if you don't know the differnce between an apple and an orange, nothing I could tell you about the difference between isolationism and non-intervention would sink in. I'd like to believe you are smarter than that, but so far things aren't looking too promising for you.

Translation: I have to say SOMETHING to avoid looking like an ignorant dipshit.

Look, if you can't explain and/or defend your position then just drop it. No one will blame you.

 

[Liability]

Right now, my issue with kevin is that he thinks that if we were nice to the terrorists, they wouldn't be terrorists. But Kevin is nothing if not consistent... so I have to give him that much.

If we're nice to terrorists, they will love us so much, they'll kill us last!

there is no doubt that we've done some stuff that was counterproductive and enabled us to be used as recruiting posters for terrorists. but for the core group, none of it would matter....

i just don't think it should keep us from doing the right thing...even if some people get ticked off.

I am pretty sure you are right: it is a practical certainty that we have done some stuff to piss off certain segments of the Islamic world. Oh well. And it is just as certain that some of the shit we have done DOES get put to use as fodder for their recruiting propaganda.

I also agree that no matter what we do or refrain from doing, the core group of hyper-militant Islamists will not alter their opinion of us nor their actions towards us.

And of COURSE we should try always to do the right thing. We should, to the best of our capacity to grasp all the intriciate interwoven issues, always make the effort to do the right thing for the right reason. The trick is to know what the right thing is in such cases. It is not always clear.

In the end, though, I think it's pretty obvious that the idiots who have been at war with the West since LONG before 9/11/2001 will continue to try to wage war against us and they are certainly hoping to bring that war fully "home" to us. Since we know their desire, it is incredible folly not to proactively attempt to shut them down.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Translation: I really don't know either but one is good and the other is bad.

No, the translation is that if you don't know the differnce between an apple and an orange, nothing I could tell you about the difference between isolationism and non-intervention would sink in. I'd like to believe you are smarter than that, but so far things aren't looking too promising for you.

Translation: I have to say SOMETHING to avoid looking like an ignorant dipshit.

Look, if you can't explain and/or defend your position then just drop it. No one will blame you.

I'll say it on a level that even YOU can understand...

Isolation: We're not doing ANYTHING, even if there's benefits...
Non-intervention: We only do what's necessary and to our vital interest. We don't get involved in everyone's affairs.

 

[Liability]

Leadership that many see as illegitimate, oppressive, and a puppet for the United States.

I saw the bush administration as illegitimate and oppressive. still didn't give me the right to blow up stuff.

"illegitimate and oppressive"?? Seriously??

Lotsa libs saw the Bush Administration as "illegitimate" since he DID, as we all know, "steal" the election from owlgore.

As for "oppresive," I suspect that translates into "NOT AS FULLY AND UNCONDITIONALLY SUPPORT OF NEAR ANARCHICAL 'LIBERTY' AS WE LEFTISTS INSIST THE WORLD OUGHT TO BE!"

 

[Liability]

No, the translation is that if you don't know the differnce between an apple and an orange, nothing I could tell you about the difference between isolationism and non-intervention would sink in. I'd like to believe you are smarter than that, but so far things aren't looking too promising for you.

Translation: I have to say SOMETHING to avoid looking like an ignorant dipshit.

Look, if you can't explain and/or defend your position then just drop it. No one will blame you.

I'll say it on a level that even YOU can understand...

Isolation: We're not doing ANYTHING, even if there's benefits...
Non-intervention: We only do what's necessary and to our vital interest. We don't get involved in everyone's affairs.

And I'll ask YOU an obvious question or two:

ARE those "THE" actual defintions OR are they merely the way YOU autocratically define them?

 

[jillian]

Our president would Mirandize them and give them counsel.

No. Our president wouldn't. Law enforcement would -- and should. It's not only the people we like who get those things.

They're terrorists because we're not Muslim. We don't cover our women from head to toe and we don't stone them if another guy touches them.

There is that segment of the population for whom that is true.

They would hate us even if no American soldier ever set foot on Muslim soil. We could leave the middle east today, sever all ties with Israel and they would still want us dead.

For some that is absolutely true. And what Ron Paul isn't saying.. and his followers won't acknowledge is that THAT is what they believe... that if we left Israel to its own devices, regardless of benefit to ourselves, then suddenly the terrorists would be our buddies.

My feeling is that there are things we do wrong (e.g. abu ghraib; waterboarding; invading Iraq) and things we do right. But we shouldn't stop doing the right things because it makes someone cranky.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The terms are generally used that way by professionals. Look up the definitions.

 

[Liability]

The terms are generally used that way by professionals. Look up the definitions.

"The terms are generally used that way by professionals." Sure.

Uh huh.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Our president would Mirandize them and give them counsel.

No. Our president wouldn't. Law enforcement would -- and should. It's not only the people we like who get those things.

They're terrorists because we're not Muslim. We don't cover our women from head to toe and we don't stone them if another guy touches them.

There is that segment of the population for whom that is true.

They would hate us even if no American soldier ever set foot on Muslim soil. We could leave the middle east today, sever all ties with Israel and they would still want us dead.

For some that is absolutely true. And what Ron Paul isn't saying.. and his followers won't acknowledge is that THAT is what they believe... that if we left Israel to its own devices, regardless of benefit to ourselves, then suddenly the terrorists would be our buddies.

My feeling is that there are things we do wrong (e.g. abu ghraib; waterboarding; invading Iraq) and things we do right. But we shouldn't stop doing the right things because it makes someone cranky.

We don't think terrorists would be our buddies if we "left Israel to its own devices." We think if we treated everyone equally, Muslims and Israel included, then there would be less terrorists. We don't think we should be giving financial or military aid to Israel, as it allows them to retain their own corruption and inefficiency, but nor do we think we should be sending financial or military aid to the Palestinians or any other muslims.

 

[blu]

The terms are generally used that way by professionals. Look up the definitions.

"The terms are generally used that way by professionals." Sure.

Uh huh.

your stupidity always brings me a smile.

 

[Liability]

The terms are generally used that way by professionals. Look up the definitions.

"The terms are generally used that way by professionals." Sure.

Uh huh.

your stupidity always brings me a smile.

Since you are a ******* imbecile, you cannot even identify stupidity.

Nobody cares what makes you smile, blooper.