Ron Paul: "They're Terrorists Because We're Occupiers".

[jillian]

Yeah. I SEE the Obama Administration as illegitimate and oppressive. That still doesn't give me any right to blow up stuff, nor even the desire to do so.

I hear ya... but the operative part is we don't want to blow up stuff.

please explain it to kevin.

I kinda like Kevin, even though I find myself disagreeing with him frequently on matters of politics.

But I'll say this much. I don't argue that libs want to blow things up and I am not accusing you (or other liberals) of claiming that conservatives do, either.

Right now, my issue with kevin is that he thinks that if we were nice to the terrorists, they wouldn't be terrorists. But Kevin is nothing if not consistent... so I have to give him that much.

 

[Liability]

I hear ya... but the operative part is we don't want to blow up stuff.

please explain it to kevin.

I kinda like Kevin, even though I find myself disagreeing with him frequently on matters of politics.

But I'll say this much. I don't argue that libs want to blow things up and I am not accusing you (or other liberals) of claiming that conservatives do, either.

Right now, my issue with kevin is that he thinks that if we were nice to the terrorists, they wouldn't be terrorists. But Kevin is nothing if not consistent... so I have to give him that much.

If we're nice to terrorists, they will love us so much, they'll kill us last!

 

[jillian]

I kinda like Kevin, even though I find myself disagreeing with him frequently on matters of politics.

But I'll say this much. I don't argue that libs want to blow things up and I am not accusing you (or other liberals) of claiming that conservatives do, either.

Right now, my issue with kevin is that he thinks that if we were nice to the terrorists, they wouldn't be terrorists. But Kevin is nothing if not consistent... so I have to give him that much.

If we're nice to terrorists, they will love us so much, they'll kill us last!

there is no doubt that we've done some stuff that was counterproductive and enabled us to be used as recruiting posters for terrorists. but for the core group, none of it would matter....

i just don't think it should keep us from doing the right thing...even if some people get ticked off.

 

[The Rabbi]

no. that's having a military base there with the consent of the leadership of the country.

Leadership that many see as illegitimate, oppressive, and a puppet for the United States.

I saw the bush administration as illegitimate and oppressive. still didn't give me the right to blow up stuff.

"illegitimate and oppressive"?? Seriously??

 

[The Rabbi]

Why is it that so many of today's "conservatives" fail to understand REAL conservative principles from old schoolers like Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan? From Buchanan's 12/29/09 column titled "A Decade of Self-Delusion".

A Decade of Self-Delusion - HUMAN EVENTS

After Sept. 11, the nation was united behind a president as it had not been since Pearl Harbor. But instead of focusing on the enemies who did this to us, we took Osama bin Laden's bait and plunged into a war in Iraq that bled and divided us, alienated Europe and the Arab world, and destroyed the Republican Party's reputation as the reliable custodian of national security and foreign policy.

The party paid -- with the loss of both houses in 2006 and the presidency in 2008 -- but the nation has not stopped paying.

With nearly 200,000 troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and another 30,000 more on the way, al-Qaida is now in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and North Africa, while the huge U.S. military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq serves as its recruiting poster.

Again, it is not a malevolent fate that has done this to us. We did it to ourselves. We believed all that hubristic blather about our being the "greatest empire since Rome," the "indispensable nation" and "unipolar power" advancing to "benevolent global hegemony" in a series of "cakewalk" wars to "end tyranny in our world."

How is it that so many nominally intelligent people can confuse and conflate the politics of Ron Paul (or Pat Buchanan) with the politics of old school conservatism?

Probably "conservative" doesn't mean much mroe than what anyone wants it to mean.
In the 1950s if you advocated a vigorous foreign policy then you were a Democrat. If you wanted America to pull back you were a Republican. By 1972 "Come home America" was a slogan of the Democratic left.
Buchanan and Paul in foreign policy are part of an old isolationist stream in American thought. Somehow that gets translated into "conservative", although Ronald Reagan would have been horrified.

 

[kwc57]

Why is it that so many of today's "conservatives" fail to understand REAL conservative principles from old schoolers like Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan? From Buchanan's 12/29/09 column titled "A Decade of Self-Delusion".

A Decade of Self-Delusion - HUMAN EVENTS

After Sept. 11, the nation was united behind a president as it had not been since Pearl Harbor. But instead of focusing on the enemies who did this to us, we took Osama bin Laden's bait and plunged into a war in Iraq that bled and divided us, alienated Europe and the Arab world, and destroyed the Republican Party's reputation as the reliable custodian of national security and foreign policy.

The party paid -- with the loss of both houses in 2006 and the presidency in 2008 -- but the nation has not stopped paying.

With nearly 200,000 troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and another 30,000 more on the way, al-Qaida is now in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and North Africa, while the huge U.S. military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq serves as its recruiting poster.

Again, it is not a malevolent fate that has done this to us. We did it to ourselves. We believed all that hubristic blather about our being the "greatest empire since Rome," the "indispensable nation" and "unipolar power" advancing to "benevolent global hegemony" in a series of "cakewalk" wars to "end tyranny in our world."

How is it that so many nominally intelligent people can confuse and conflate the politics of Ron Paul (or Pat Buchanan) with the politics of old school conservatism?

How is it that so many people who call themselves conservatives today have no idea, concept or understanding of what an old school conservative is? They wouldn't know a real consevative if one came up and bit them on the ass. They all still think George Bush and his cadre of associates were great conservatives.

 

[kwc57]

Why is it that so many of today's "conservatives" fail to understand REAL conservative principles from old schoolers like Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan? From Buchanan's 12/29/09 column titled "A Decade of Self-Delusion".

A Decade of Self-Delusion - HUMAN EVENTS

After Sept. 11, the nation was united behind a president as it had not been since Pearl Harbor. But instead of focusing on the enemies who did this to us, we took Osama bin Laden's bait and plunged into a war in Iraq that bled and divided us, alienated Europe and the Arab world, and destroyed the Republican Party's reputation as the reliable custodian of national security and foreign policy.

The party paid -- with the loss of both houses in 2006 and the presidency in 2008 -- but the nation has not stopped paying.

With nearly 200,000 troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and another 30,000 more on the way, al-Qaida is now in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and North Africa, while the huge U.S. military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq serves as its recruiting poster.

Again, it is not a malevolent fate that has done this to us. We did it to ourselves. We believed all that hubristic blather about our being the "greatest empire since Rome," the "indispensable nation" and "unipolar power" advancing to "benevolent global hegemony" in a series of "cakewalk" wars to "end tyranny in our world."

How is it that so many nominally intelligent people can confuse and conflate the politics of Ron Paul (or Pat Buchanan) with the politics of old school conservatism?

Probably "conservative" doesn't mean much mroe than what anyone wants it to mean.
In the 1950s if you advocated a vigorous foreign policy then you were a Democrat. If you wanted America to pull back you were a Republican. By 1972 "Come home America" was a slogan of the Democratic left.
Buchanan and Paul in foreign policy are part of an old isolationist stream in American thought. Somehow that gets translated into "conservative", although Ronald Reagan would have been horrified.

You're a good case in point. Calling Buchanan and Paul "isolationist" rather than non-interventionist is like calling tea partiers "tea-baggers". There is a difference in both cases except to those who want to detract and deride.

 

[The Rabbi]

How is it that so many nominally intelligent people can confuse and conflate the politics of Ron Paul (or Pat Buchanan) with the politics of old school conservatism?

Probably "conservative" doesn't mean much mroe than what anyone wants it to mean.
In the 1950s if you advocated a vigorous foreign policy then you were a Democrat. If you wanted America to pull back you were a Republican. By 1972 "Come home America" was a slogan of the Democratic left.
Buchanan and Paul in foreign policy are part of an old isolationist stream in American thought. Somehow that gets translated into "conservative", although Ronald Reagan would have been horrified.

You're a good case in point. Calling Buchanan and Paul "isolationist" rather than non-interventionist is like calling tea partiers "tea-baggers". There is a difference in both cases except to those who want to detract and deride.

Maybe you'd care to highlight the difference. I can't wait.

 

[jillian]

You're a good case in point. Calling Buchanan and Paul "isolationist" rather than non-interventionist is like calling tea partiers "tea-baggers". There is a difference in both cases except to those who want to detract and deride.

or maybe calling isolationists "non-interventionist" just tries to put a more acceptable face on something that isn't.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Isolationists seek to pull the U.S. out of foreign affairs all together. Non-interventionists want to be diplomatic with other nations, trade with other nations, but not treat other nations as our inferiors and assume that we can do whatever we want around the world.

 

[manu1959]

Hey, Ron Paul:

IF what you say has any truth to it, then,

why were they terrorists before we responded to their acts by allegedly "occupying" any of "their" lands?



I like some of the things Dr. Paul has to say. But sometimes he says such massively stupid shit that taking him seriously is impossible.

his point is.....if we did not have military bases in dubai...uae...sa etc etc etc.....and were not sticking our military nose in every situation around the world.....then in all likeleyhood there would have been no reason to attck the evil empire as we would have no presence outside our own borders....

 

[The Rabbi]

Isolationists seek to pull the U.S. out of foreign affairs all together. Non-interventionists want to be diplomatic with other nations, trade with other nations, but not treat other nations as our inferiors and assume that we can do whatever we want around the world.

No doubt you would be in sympathy with the fellow who penned this line:

Less care for internationalism and more concern for national prosperity."

 

[The Rabbi]

Isolationists seek to pull the U.S. out of foreign affairs all together. Non-interventionists want to be diplomatic with other nations, trade with other nations, but not treat other nations as our inferiors and assume that we can do whatever we want around the world.

That sounds like the goals of Obama.....

 

[Kalam]

One picture is worth a thousand words.

I can hardly imagine the number of words a video must be worth.

Nice way to deflect from the fact that you have been shown to be a liar. Again.

I lied about religion playing no role in labor riots? Do elaborate.

And don't forget to remind everyone that you're a scholar of Islam.

 

[kwc57]

Probably "conservative" doesn't mean much mroe than what anyone wants it to mean.
In the 1950s if you advocated a vigorous foreign policy then you were a Democrat. If you wanted America to pull back you were a Republican. By 1972 "Come home America" was a slogan of the Democratic left.
Buchanan and Paul in foreign policy are part of an old isolationist stream in American thought. Somehow that gets translated into "conservative", although Ronald Reagan would have been horrified.

You're a good case in point. Calling Buchanan and Paul "isolationist" rather than non-interventionist is like calling tea partiers "tea-baggers". There is a difference in both cases except to those who want to detract and deride.

Maybe you'd care to highlight the difference. I can't wait.

If you honestly don't know the difference, perhaps a political message board isn't the best place for you to hang out.

 

[The Rabbi]

I can hardly imagine the number of words a video must be worth.

Nice way to deflect from the fact that you have been shown to be a liar. Again.

I lied about religion playing no role in labor riots? Do elaborate.

Your statement was that religion was incidental to Muslim rioting. From the pic obviously that was a lie.
Are you going to lie about your statement, or about the pic?

And don't forget to remind everyone that you're a scholar of Islam.

I can remind everyone that you are not.

 

[The Rabbi]

You're a good case in point. Calling Buchanan and Paul "isolationist" rather than non-interventionist is like calling tea partiers "tea-baggers". There is a difference in both cases except to those who want to detract and deride.

Maybe you'd care to highlight the difference. I can't wait.

If you honestly don't know the difference, perhaps a political message board isn't the best place for you to hang out.

Translation: I really don't know either but one is good and the other is bad.

 

[Kalam]

Your statement was that religion was incidental to Muslim rioting.

Oh? Why don't you quote my statement?

I can remind everyone that you are not.

Nor do I pretend to be.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Isolationists seek to pull the U.S. out of foreign affairs all together. Non-interventionists want to be diplomatic with other nations, trade with other nations, but not treat other nations as our inferiors and assume that we can do whatever we want around the world.

That sounds like the goals of Obama.....

Yeah, right. Obama's as much of an interventionist as Bush was.

 

[Kalam]

Ghook's response (via rep comment) to the video I posted of Jews and other supporters of Israel celebrating the genocide of Palestinians in the streets of New York:

You are a worthless sand N#gger! I hope more of your Palestinian brothers perish in their self-destructive to die in the name of a child molester, assassin and mass murder!

Thank you for your invaluable contribution to the discussion.