Ron Paul: "They're Terrorists Because We're Occupiers".

[Kalam]

One picture is worth a thousand words.

I can hardly imagine the number of words a video must be worth.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XrJFsM0JQw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XrJFsM0JQw[/ame]

 

[Kalam]

Which is funny because "hanifus" in Hebrew means something like flattery to gain advantage.

Fascinating. I can assure you that Abu Hanifah is not connected in any way to this revered practice of Judaism.

And it would come as some surprise I am sure for them to hear they aren't Muslims.

Good luck telling them now.

 

[The Rabbi]

One picture is worth a thousand words.

I can hardly imagine the number of words a video must be worth.

Nice way to deflect from the fact that you have been shown to be a liar. Again.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

Been in the military? If not, you should shut up. But you won't.

 

[CMike]

I don't believe that arab terrorists with rags on their heads should be dictating american foreign policy because the mightest country in the world is scared of them.

 

[gautama]

What conclusion does our enemy come to when they see their enemy's leader behave like a kow-towing stooge ?????

 

[QUENTIN]

If you look at the following proposition:

Dropping bombs or using predator drones to kill terrorists kills more civilians than terrorists, thereby creating more terrorists than it can kill.

And do not come to the conclusion that that's a bad policy, you're an idiot. It's not fighting terrorism that's the problem, it's the manner in which we do it that is not only ineffective but in fact counter-productive.

The amount of genuine ideologically driven whackos out there number in the hundreds, while the amount of people furious at the U.S. over specific policies detrimental to both them and the U.S. number in the millions. If we stop shooting ourselves in the foot by needlessly killing innocent people, we reduce the threat by 90% or more. It's not ******* appeasement, it's common sense. If a policy's negative results far outweight it's positive ones, you change the policy.

Speaking of Abu Hanifah, we've raided the Abu Hanifah mosque numerous times during our occupation of Iraq, destroyed much of it, ruined food gathered for relief for the people forced out of Fallujah, and physically assaulted worshippers literally as they prayed in one of the most holy sights in Islam. It's that kind of behavior that doesn't combat terrorists, just turns more of the moderates we need against us.

Swagger and bravado are not policies, we need to actually think about the people in the countries we're occupying if we ever want to get out and be reasonably safe.

 

[QUENTIN]

Former Marine captain resigns in protest of Afghanistan war

Matthew Hoh, a former Marine captain with combat experience in Iraq, resigned last month from his position with the Foreign Service, where he was the senior U.S. civilian in the Taliban-dominated Southern Afghanistan province of Zabul, because he became convinced that our war in that country will not only inevitably fail, but is fueling the very insurgency we are trying to defeat. Hoh's resignation is remarkable because it entails the sort of career sacrifice in the name of principle that has been so rare over the last decade, but even more so because of the extraordinary four-page letter (.pdf) he wrote explaining his reasoning.

Hoh's letter should be read in its entirety, but I want to highlight one part. He begins by noting that "next fall, the United States' occupation will equal in length the Soviet Union's own physical involvement in Afghanistan," and contends that our unwanted occupation combined with our support for a deeply corrupt government "reminds [him] horribly of our involvement in South Vietnam." He then explains that most of the people we are fighting are not loyal to the Taliban or driven by any other nefarious aim, but instead are driven principally by resistance to the presence of foreign troops in their provinces and villages...

How long are we going to continue to do this? We invade and occupy a country, and then label as "insurgents" or even "terrorists" the people in that country who fight against our invasion and occupation. With the most circular logic imaginable, we then insist that we must remain in order to defeat the "insurgents" and "terrorists" -- largely composed of people whose only cause for fighting is our presence in their country. All the while, we clearly exacerbate the very problem we are allegedly attempting to address -- Terrorism -- by predictably and inevitably increasing anti-American anger and hatred through our occupation, which, no matter the strategy, inevitably entails our killing innocent civilians. Indeed, does Hoh's description of what drives the insurgency -- anger "against the presence of foreign soldiers" -- permit the conclusion that that's all going to be placated with a shift to a kind and gentle counter-insurgency strategy?

Relatedly, Hoh points out the transparent fallacy of the claim that we will reduce -- rather than worsen -- the problem of Terrorism by occupying Muslim countries with a massive military presence:

Hoh's observations are entirely consistent with David Rohde's account of his seven-month hostage ordeal with the Taliban: namely, the longer we occupy Afghanistan, the more people we kill and imprison without charges, the greater the central fuel of terrorism -- anti-American hatred -- rises, not only in Afghanistan but across the Muslim world. As the Pentagon's own commissioned Report from 2004 concluded:

Negative attitudes and the conditions that create them are the underlying sources of threats to America's national security . . . Direct American intervention in the Muslim world has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for Islamic radicals.

Hoh told The Washington Post's Karen DeYoung that he's "not some peacenik, pot-smoking hippie who wants everyone to be in love" and that he believes "there are plenty of dudes who need to be killed," adding: "I was never more happy than when our Iraq team whacked a bunch of guys." Plainly, there's nothing ideological about his conclusions; they're just the by-product of an honest assessment, based on first-hand experiences, of how our ongoing occupation of that country is worsening the very problem we're allegedly there to solve.

...

The rest of the article can be read here and the Captain's letter is really worth reading for insight into our occupation, impact, and exactly why it's in both American and Afghan interest for us to stop fighting terrorism with military occupation.

 

[Liability]

once again LIEability neg reps b/c he can't debate. how sad

Obviously another lie from blooper.

I neg repped your ass because what you said was so petty, dishonest and stupid.

Now stop all that crying and get back to making merely stupid posts.

 

[blu]

once again LIEability neg reps b/c he can't debate. how sad

Obviously another lie from blooper.

I neg repped your ass because what you said was so petty, dishonest and stupid.

Now stop all that crying and get back to making merely stupid posts.

maybe you can enlighten me as to what was dishonest in the post since the rest of the rant is subjective.

 

[jillian]

On some level it sounds credible that just by occupying a country we are creating a 'resistance', or terrorists.
Seems like we could use that somehow, to hasten our departure.
Aren't we looking for them to take the responsibility of running their own country?
I fhtey could just get organized enough to be an "opposition' istead of "terrorists", we could hand the country over to them.

While I agree that we should not have gone into Iraq and occupide it in the first place, to be fair, we weren't occupying any middle east country prior to 9/11.

Ron Paul, as usual is either naive or intensely ignorant.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

On some level it sounds credible that just by occupying a country we are creating a 'resistance', or terrorists.
Seems like we could use that somehow, to hasten our departure.
Aren't we looking for them to take the responsibility of running their own country?
I fhtey could just get organized enough to be an "opposition' istead of "terrorists", we could hand the country over to them.

While I agree that we should not have gone into Iraq and occupide it in the first place, to be fair, we weren't occupying any middle east country prior to 9/11.

Ron Paul, as usual is either naive or intensely ignorant.

We weren't in Saudi Arabia?

 

[Liability]

"And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs."

John F'n Lurch Kerry to Bob Schieffer on CBS's Face the Nation, 12/4/2005.

 

[jillian]

We weren't in Saudi Arabia?

OCCUPYING... he said OCCUPYING.

nice try, though.

You know, when i studied mid-east politics, my favorite professor used to tell us that jihadis would be the biggest problem of the 21st century. that was BEFORE bin sultan. Jihadis don't give a rats behind if we're nice to them.

And as I recall, we opened Bin Sultan AFB during Gulf I

In 1979, fifty-two American citizens were taken hostage by Islamic terrorists who took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran, Iran.
Between 1982-1991, ten Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon.
In 1983, a Hezbollah suicide bomber attacked the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, killing 63 people.
Later that year, another suicide bomber attacked the U.S. marine barracks in Beirut, killing 241 U.S. marines and injuring over 100 more.
Terrorists also bombed the U.S. Embassy annex in Kuwait in 1983, killing six and injuring over 80 others.
In 1984, there was another suicide bombing of the U.S. Embassy compound in Beirut, killing 24 people.
Later that year, Hezbollah hijacked Kuwait Airways flight 221, and killed two American officials from the U.S. Agency for International Development when their demands to release the 17 terrorists who had bombed the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait were not met.
In 1985, Hezbollah hijacked TWA flight 847, first to Lebanon and then to Algiers, where they held the passengers hostage for 17 days. Again, they demanded the release of the terrorists who had bombed the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait, and shot a U.S. Navy diver when their demands were not met.
Later that year, the PLO hijacked the Achille Lauro, an Italian cruise ship, and killed an American tourist when their demands for the release of PLO terrorists were not met.
In 1986, TWA flight 840 was bombed just before landing in Athens, Greece, killing four people who were sucked out of the hole caused by the explosion.
In 1988, Pan Am flight 103 from London to NY was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing 259 passengers and 11 people on the ground.

Chronology of Islamic Terrorism Against the U.S. « Government is Not Your Daddy

Note: I stopped before the first gulf war.

you want to go on with your argument?

 

[dan22]

Ron Paul is 100% right

 

[dan22]

I don't think you understand what he said!
We need to understand what causes people to attack us!!!

 

[Liability]

once again LIEability neg reps b/c he can't debate. how sad

Obviously another lie from blooper.

I neg repped your ass because what you said was so petty, dishonest and stupid.

Now stop all that crying and get back to making merely stupid posts.

maybe you can enlighten me as to what was dishonest in the post since the rest of the rant is subjective.

Well, because you are an imbecile, nobody else would know which of your ******* typically dishonest posts I was referring to at the time I gave you your neg rep.

So, let's go to your typically dishonest post itself in all it's glory, starting with a comment by The T!

Actually? That isn't correct. The Right encourages Liberty.

tell that to atheists, gays/lesbians/transvestites, weed smokers, muslims, protestors, anti-war groups, public schools, colleges, people who speak out against the military, anyone who criticizes bush, people standing in free speech zones, those locked away without representation due to the patriot act, those who were served letters and can't tell their family due to the PA, those who had their house searched when they weren't home due to the PA, those who have had their phone calls & internet comm spied on and recorded without reason or warrant (every american), etc, etc, etc

2000-2008 has shown that the gop and what is now considered "the right" hates liberty and will get usa citizens & the world to bend to their well now matter how many liberties are stripped away or people have to die in the process.

You -- in your idiotic and dishonest "response" -- were arguing that the RIGHT opposes freedom for atheists. Totally untrue.

You also stupidly, ignorantly and dishonestly claimed that the RIGHT opposes freedom for:
gays/lesbians/transvestites, = untrue.

weed smokers, = untrue.

muslims, = untrue.

protestors, = untrue.

anti-war groups, = untrue.

public schools, = untrue (and rather mindless at that).

colleges, = untrue.

people who speak out against the military,= untrue.

anyone who criticizes bush, = untrue.

people standing in free speech zones, = untrue.

those locke d away without representation due to the patriot act, = untrue in SOME respects, but actually right in some respects, although your knee-jerk Pavlovian reaction to PATRIOT Act is causing you to misuse it in this context.

those who were served letters and can't tell their family due to the PA, = not just simply untrue but totally untrue. There is NOBODY that applies to. The secrecy provision of the law doesn't even apply to those to whom the letters are directed, you idiot.

those who had their house searched when they weren't home due to the PA,= untrue and utterly nonsensical.

those who have had their phone calls & internet comm spied on and recorded without reason or warrant (every american), = untrue. And p[aranoid stupid-ass delusion at that.

etc, etc, etc = untrue. One cannot have the "et" in et cetera if there is no real first instance. And there isn't in that faux litany of yours.

Thus, as I CORRECTLY noted, you lied.

 

[jillian]

I don't think you understand what he said!
We need to understand what causes people to attack us!!!

I understood exactly what he said.

I merely proved that his statement was based on a fallacy.

And if you REALLY want to know why we were attacked, you need to actually address that fallacy.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

We weren't in Saudi Arabia?

OCCUPYING... he said OCCUPYING.

nice try, though.

You know, when i studied mid-east politics, my favorite professor used to tell us that jihadis would be the biggest problem of the 21st century. that was BEFORE bin sultan. Jihadis don't give a rats behind if we're nice to them.

And as I recall, we opened Bin Sultan AFB during Gulf I

In 1979, fifty-two American citizens were taken hostage by Islamic terrorists who took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran, Iran.
Between 1982-1991, ten Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon.
In 1983, a Hezbollah suicide bomber attacked the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, killing 63 people.
Later that year, another suicide bomber attacked the U.S. marine barracks in Beirut, killing 241 U.S. marines and injuring over 100 more.
Terrorists also bombed the U.S. Embassy annex in Kuwait in 1983, killing six and injuring over 80 others.
In 1984, there was another suicide bombing of the U.S. Embassy compound in Beirut, killing 24 people.
Later that year, Hezbollah hijacked Kuwait Airways flight 221, and killed two American officials from the U.S. Agency for International Development when their demands to release the 17 terrorists who had bombed the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait were not met.
In 1985, Hezbollah hijacked TWA flight 847, first to Lebanon and then to Algiers, where they held the passengers hostage for 17 days. Again, they demanded the release of the terrorists who had bombed the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait, and shot a U.S. Navy diver when their demands were not met.
Later that year, the PLO hijacked the Achille Lauro, an Italian cruise ship, and killed an American tourist when their demands for the release of PLO terrorists were not met.
In 1986, TWA flight 840 was bombed just before landing in Athens, Greece, killing four people who were sucked out of the hole caused by the explosion.
In 1988, Pan Am flight 103 from London to NY was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing 259 passengers and 11 people on the ground.

Chronology of Islamic Terrorism Against the U.S. « Government is Not Your Daddy

Note: I stopped before the first gulf war.

you want to go on with your argument?

What do you call it when our military is in a nation? I'd say that's occupation.

 

[Liability]

We weren't in Saudi Arabia?

OCCUPYING... he said OCCUPYING.

nice try, though.

You know, when i studied mid-east politics, my favorite professor used to tell us that jihadis would be the biggest problem of the 21st century. that was BEFORE bin sultan. Jihadis don't give a rats behind if we're nice to them.

And as I recall, we opened Bin Sultan AFB during Gulf I

In 1979, fifty-two American citizens were taken hostage by Islamic terrorists who took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran, Iran.
Between 1982-1991, ten Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon.
In 1983, a Hezbollah suicide bomber attacked the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, killing 63 people.
Later that year, another suicide bomber attacked the U.S. marine barracks in Beirut, killing 241 U.S. marines and injuring over 100 more.
Terrorists also bombed the U.S. Embassy annex in Kuwait in 1983, killing six and injuring over 80 others.
In 1984, there was another suicide bombing of the U.S. Embassy compound in Beirut, killing 24 people.
Later that year, Hezbollah hijacked Kuwait Airways flight 221, and killed two American officials from the U.S. Agency for International Development when their demands to release the 17 terrorists who had bombed the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait were not met.
In 1985, Hezbollah hijacked TWA flight 847, first to Lebanon and then to Algiers, where they held the passengers hostage for 17 days. Again, they demanded the release of the terrorists who had bombed the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait, and shot a U.S. Navy diver when their demands were not met.
Later that year, the PLO hijacked the Achille Lauro, an Italian cruise ship, and killed an American tourist when their demands for the release of PLO terrorists were not met.
In 1986, TWA flight 840 was bombed just before landing in Athens, Greece, killing four people who were sucked out of the hole caused by the explosion.
In 1988, Pan Am flight 103 from London to NY was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing 259 passengers and 11 people on the ground.

Chronology of Islamic Terrorism Against the U.S. « Government is Not Your Daddy

Note: I stopped before the first gulf war.

you want to go on with your argument?

What do you call it when our military is in a nation? I'd say that's occupation.

And you'd be mistaken.

****. Even the liberoidal bible, Wiki, makes the distinction plain enough:

Belligerent military occupation occurs when the control and authority over a territory passes to a hostile army.

Military occupation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mere presence is not the same thing as control and authority over a territory.

The latter may require the former, however.