Ron Paul: Crimea Secedes. So What?...

[paulitician]

Americans should be very wary of what their Leaders are telling them about those who carried out the Coup in Kiev. Be very careful what you wish for America. In my humble opinion, we should just get our $Billion back and stay out of this.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI_38CaoUbE]Anti-Russians Display Controversial U.S. Confederate Flag In Kiev - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TakeAStepBack]

If they "vote" with Russian guns on their necks, it can't be a legitimate election.

If you 'choose' to give your wallet to the nice man with a gun pressed into your face, you haven't really made a charitable donation, have you?

And this differs from our election process, how exactly?

But that's not really the question. the question is whether or not it is OUR responsibility to police people half way across the world when our own house is falling down around us.

Thats fucked up to the highest level that you dont see a problem with that and seek to excuse it. That's so you tho

That you're not smart enough to comprehend what I'm saying is only second to your content retardant posts.

 

[paulitician]

Government is an illusion. It's like a dragon, or a leprechaun. it's not real in any tangible sense. it's simply a group of individuals who have claimed authority using guns (violence) to exact their will onto a population of otherwise voluntary actors.

Governments are Gangs. They rule by intimidation and force. They're the most powerful organized crime syndicates on Earth.

 

[PredFan]

I don't know or really care about all of this but I have to ask, is Crimea part of the Ukraine, if Crimea becomes part of Russia, does it landlock Ukraine and if Crimea can vote to leave the Ukraine, does that mean Boston can vote to become part of Ireland or southern California vote to become part of Mexico?

I would think yes.

 

[paulitician]

For the Obamabots in particular, i suspect they hate Putin and Russia just because their Dear Leader told them they were supposed to. Their arguments supporting our involvement in this are pretty incoherent and weak. I'm guessing it's more of that 'Because Obama' stuff...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-sdO6pwVHQ]Help Obama Kickstart World War III! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ClosedCaption]

And this differs from our election process, how exactly?

But that's not really the question. the question is whether or not it is OUR responsibility to police people half way across the world when our own house is falling down around us.

Thats fucked up to the highest level that you dont see a problem with that and seek to excuse it. That's so you tho

That you're not smart enough to comprehend what I'm saying is only second to your content retardant posts.

That you cant explain yourself is even funnier...in a sad way.

Comparing guns to your head voting to our elections is bullshit and you know it

 

[Machaut]

Ron Paul: Crimea secedes. So what?

The Germans are in Austria? So what? Now they are 'annexing' Poland? I don't know anyone in Poland - screw it, what could happen?

.........................................................................

I generally like you, Unkotare, but why jump on the "everyone I don't like is Hitler" bandwagon?

The situations are only similar if you ignore the beginning: The Party of Regions was voted in, remained in after multiple elections, and was overthrown by a bunch of foreign-backed thugs. Crimea didn't want to be part of a country where the rule of law is overturned so willy-nilly, so they voted to give the people an option to remain as a part of Ukraine or secede. The new Ukrainian government started making threats about "hurr durr we gon cut off yo gas n yo lights n yo water," so Russia stepped in to help protect the Crimeans. Theirs is a mission of protection; recall that at one point they occupied a Ukrainian village with an essential gas plant sending energy to Crimea, and once they'd checked out the situation and seen that there were no violent thugs rioting in the streets, they withdrew from the village and merely guarded the plant, ensuring that the non-elected Ukrainian regime couldn't intimidate voters by cutting off their utilities. Crimeans had a choice--stay with Ukraine or join Russia--and the majority of the people who wanted to stay with Ukraine foolishly decided to "boycott the referendum," i.e. not vote. The minority that wants to stay with Ukraine has no right to complain when they have willfully avoided expressing their opinion in the official vote, nor does the West have any right to complain about the will of the voting majority of the people of Crimea.

My question exactly. If the people vote to join Russia, who are we to tell them they cannot?

If they "vote" with Russian guns on their necks, it can't be a legitimate election.

If you 'choose' to give your wallet to the nice man with a gun pressed into your face, you haven't really made a charitable donation, have you?

How many voters cast their ballots with Russian soldiers standing right behind them, pointing a rifle at their backs?

 

[Nutz]

Wow, I think some members need a crash course in 20th century history...

If you think we have no dog in the fight, look up appeasement and Hitler. If you think global events have no bearing on US politics, European politics or our way of life, re-examine the cold war. For those of you who didn't hit puberty until the year 2000, ask your elders.

The US is not canada...we can't sit back and watch as significant nations handle worldly social and economic issues. Now more than ever, we have to be diligent considering the way of life we appreciate and the fact that we live in a global economy. We can't ride the coattails of another nation (like canada) or depend on the UN, the EU or NATO to take action. We can't allow this aggression to happen because it will ultimately erupt into a much bigger European conflict....probably led by the Germans, given their history of war, death and attempted genocide.

We are the major player in the world - and considering the blood lust and power mongering of Europe coupled with the failure of the EU economy - events like Crimea can only serve as a breeding ground for a major conflict. Imagine a Europe where there is an oil shortage, where the balance of trade is skewed...

The US must be involved or Europe will degrade into a war zone, ultimately dragging the US into their hate, war and pestilence. Given history, do you really want to trust Europe to handle this issue?

 

[Nutz]

The situations are only similar if you ignore the beginning: The Party of Regions was voted in, remained in after multiple elections, and was overthrown by a bunch of foreign-backed thugs. Crimea didn't want to be part of a country where the rule of law is overturned so willy-nilly, so they voted to give the people an option to remain as a part of Ukraine or secede. The new Ukrainian government started making threats about "hurr durr we gon cut off yo gas n yo lights n yo water," so Russia stepped in to help protect the Crimeans. Theirs is a mission of protection; recall that at one point they occupied a Ukrainian village with an essential gas plant sending energy to Crimea, and once they'd checked out the situation and seen that there were no violent thugs rioting in the streets, they withdrew from the village and merely guarded the plant, ensuring that the non-elected Ukrainian regime couldn't intimidate voters by cutting off their utilities. Crimeans had a choice--stay with Ukraine or join Russia--and the majority of the people who wanted to stay with Ukraine foolishly decided to "boycott the referendum," i.e. not vote. The minority that wants to stay with Ukraine has no right to complain when they have willfully avoided expressing their opinion in the official vote, nor does the West have any right to complain about the will of the voting majority of the people of Crimea.

And is that the only version of the truth or would there be an opposing view?

 

[paulitician]

Wow, I think some members need a crash course in 20th century history...

If you think we have no dog in the fight, look up appeasement and Hitler. If you think global events have no bearing on US politics, European politics or our way of life, re-examine the cold war. For those of you who didn't hit puberty until the year 2000, ask your elders.

The US is not canada...we can't sit back and watch as significant nations handle worldly social and economic issues. Now more than ever, we have to be diligent considering the way of life we appreciate and the fact that we live in a global economy. We can't ride the coattails of another nation (like canada) or depend on the UN, the EU or NATO to take action. We can't allow this aggression to happen because it will ultimately erupt into a much bigger European conflict....probably led by the Germans, given their history of war, death and attempted genocide.

We are the major player in the world - and considering the blood lust and power mongering of Europe coupled with the failure of the EU economy - events like Crimea can only serve as a breeding ground for a major conflict. Imagine a Europe where there is an oil shortage, where the balance of trade is skewed...

The US must be involved or Europe will degrade into a war zone, ultimately dragging the US into their hate, war and pestilence. Given history, do you really want to trust Europe to handle this issue?

Ah, the old 'He's a Hitler' argument. That argument is pretty sad and outdated. Less people are buying that Bullshite these days. Anyone who disagrees with the U.S. and Great Britain must be a 'Hitler.' I'm done with that charade. I think many others are too.

 

[GHook93]

Where Paul fails is that he ultimately comes off as siding with a Russian imperialistic move. Instead he should state that both sides are losers, as it is in Syria or in Kosovo. On one hand you have the Nationalist NAZI types (who we are supporting) and on the other the anti-American communist types. We want both to lose, so why should we care about the outcome.

Same in Syria. You have the Al Qaeda rebels who we are boneheadedly supporting on on side and the Iran backed dictator in AAASSSad. Neither are our friend, both are our enemy. We should root for both sides to lose and therefore stay out.

Same in Libya and Iraq!

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Thats fucked up to the highest level that you dont see a problem with that and seek to excuse it. That's so you tho

That you're not smart enough to comprehend what I'm saying is only second to your content retardant posts.

That you cant explain yourself is even funnier...in a sad way.

Comparing guns to your head voting to our elections is bullshit and you know it

So, your contention here is that russians actually showed up in Crimea and put guns to each voters head? Is that what you're going with?

 

[Unkotare]

My question exactly. If the people vote to join Russia, who are we to tell them they cannot?

If they "vote" with Russian guns on their necks, it can't be a legitimate election.

If you 'choose' to give your wallet to the nice man with a gun pressed into your face, you haven't really made a charitable donation, have you?

And this differs from our election process, how exactly? .

The gun on the neck part. Come on, you can get some of these answers on your own.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Where Paul fails is that he ultimately comes off as siding with a Russian imperialistic move.

nonsense.

 

[paulitician]

Where Paul fails is that he ultimately comes off as siding with a Russian imperialistic move. Instead he should state that both sides are losers, as it is in Syria or in Kosovo. On one hand you have the Nationalist NAZI types (who we are supporting) and on the other the anti-American communist types. We want both to lose, so why should we care about the outcome.

Same in Syria. You have the Al Qaeda rebels who we are boneheadedly supporting on on side and the Iran backed dictator in AAASSSad. Neither are our friend, both are our enemy. We should root for both sides to lose and therefore stay out.

Same in Libya and Iraq!

I agree with your take for the most part. Well said.

 

[Unkotare]

But that's not really the question. the question is whether or not it is OUR responsibility to police people half way across the world when our own house is falling down around us.

The Germans are in Austria? So what? Now they are 'annexing' Poland? I don't know anyone in Poland - screw it, what could happen?


.................................................. .......................

 

[TakeAStepBack]

If they "vote" with Russian guns on their necks, it can't be a legitimate election.

If you 'choose' to give your wallet to the nice man with a gun pressed into your face, you haven't really made a charitable donation, have you?

And this differs from our election process, how exactly? .

The gun on the neck part. Come on, you can get some of these answers on your own.

So you and ClosedCaption are going for the literal gun to the head train car?

 

[Unkotare]

So, your contention here is that russians actually showed up in Crimea and put guns to each voters head? Is that what you're going with?

Don't follow the news much, do ya?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Ron Paul: Crimea secedes. So what?

The Germans are in Austria? So what? Now they are 'annexing' Poland? I don't know anyone in Poland - screw it, what could happen?

.........................................................................

I generally like you, Unkotare, but why jump on the "everyone I don't like is Hitler" bandwagon?

The situations are only similar if you ignore the beginning: The Party of Regions was voted in, remained in after multiple elections, and was overthrown by a bunch of foreign-backed thugs. Crimea didn't want to be part of a country where the rule of law is overturned so willy-nilly, so they voted to give the people an option to remain as a part of Ukraine or secede. The new Ukrainian government started making threats about "hurr durr we gon cut off yo gas n yo lights n yo water," so Russia stepped in to help protect the Crimeans. Theirs is a mission of protection; recall that at one point they occupied a Ukrainian village with an essential gas plant sending energy to Crimea, and once they'd checked out the situation and seen that there were no violent thugs rioting in the streets, they withdrew from the village and merely guarded the plant, ensuring that the non-elected Ukrainian regime couldn't intimidate voters by cutting off their utilities. Crimeans had a choice--stay with Ukraine or join Russia--and the majority of the people who wanted to stay with Ukraine foolishly decided to "boycott the referendum," i.e. not vote. The minority that wants to stay with Ukraine has no right to complain when they have willfully avoided expressing their opinion in the official vote, nor does the West have any right to complain about the will of the voting majority of the people of Crimea.

My question exactly. If the people vote to join Russia, who are we to tell them they cannot?

If they "vote" with Russian guns on their necks, it can't be a legitimate election.

If you 'choose' to give your wallet to the nice man with a gun pressed into your face, you haven't really made a charitable donation, have you?

How many voters cast their ballots with Russian soldiers standing right behind them, pointing a rifle at their backs?

According to CC and Unkatore, all of them.

 

[bendog]

My question exactly. If the people vote to join Russia, who are we to tell them they cannot?

IF, say in ten years, "the people" in New Mexico vote to become part of Mexico, I'm sure you'll say ... who cares.