Romney at Bain: Big gains, some busts

[buckeye45_73]

Creating Jobs Wasn't Romney's Job

So, why is he touting his success at Bain to give him "cred" as a Presidential candidate?

Was Bain a profitable company while he was there?

It probably was.

The purpose of the government is not to turn a profit, though.

Truer words have never been spoken, but dont forget, government people HATE profit and people relying on themselves or God, it threatens the governemt and why all communist countries are forced athiest and forced to take what the government gives them.

It's to provide needed services to the people they can't provide for themselves.

This I doubt, the role of govenment is simple, protect the citizens(keyword citizens!!!!!) (military, police) and to organize the country so that people have a chance to make something of themselves (ie capitalism)

Today on Chris Matthews show, Major Garrett was talking about the interviews the Obama folks did with people who worked for Bain Companies that were raided and looted. He said there's stuff there about suicides and ruined lives that were so incendiary even the Obama folks couldn't put them on TV.

Come on Chris Matthews is an arrogant blowhard, who thinks he's so smart, but in reality he's an idiot and useless one at that (see my play on words about a useful idiot)
Bain is Willie Horton Riding in on a Swiftboat.

So are the democrats with bain back to supporting Willie Horton?

 

[candycorn]

Please provide a list of those companies acquired by Bain that the owner did not want to sell.

The point is, there was something wrong with those companies and those most intimately involved with them were running away from the failure.

Bain did not acquire healthy, growing companies. They acquired failing, shrinking companies and tried to keep them alive.

What's missed in all of this, however, is that Romney was running Bain which was itself a company doing things that the average guy cannot grasp. Obama is running the USA which is an organization doing things that the average guy cannot grasp.

Romney was a success. Obama is a failure. That is the lesson to be learned here.

I think it would define on how you define success and failure.

If I were an AmPad employee who was forced to knuckle under and take a lower wage with no benefits, and I ended up losing my job eventually, anyway, I would call Romney's management of my company a failure.

If I were a GM employee whose plant was about to be closed down, but it stayed open because President Obama bit the bullet and arranged the bailout package, I'd call that a success.

I think the question was motivation. Romney's goal at Bain was not to create jobs, unlike what he's claiming now. It was to maximize profit for Bain's investors, even if that meant that employees, stockholders and lenders were left holding the bag.

So Bain made a huge profit on AmPad, but the folks who were stuck holding the paper on AmPad's 400 million in debt they ran up under Bain's management, not so much.

And this is the problem with Romney. I'm sure if I were a millionaire, Romney would be an awesome president. He'd rig the game in my favor every time.

But for the vast majority of us who are working stiffs trying to balance a checkbook with an underwater mortgage, meh, not so much.

What underhanded, devious device did Bain use to force the Sale of AmPad by Meade?

AmPad filed bankruptcy in 2000. Bain divested AmPad in 1996.

AmPad was a paper based company. Paper based companies are in trouble right now world wide.

There's this thingy called the the whole world inter web or something like that... You can probably Gargle it.

Most companies are trying to go paperless. Any company that makes paper designed to go into envelopes, envelopes or devices to handle mail are in trouble. Check you portfolios, kids. Don't buy these stocks at home.

One of the things that can be perceived as underhanded and devious comes from the Planet Money podcast itself on the topic:

Ampad moved its hanging-folder manufacturing operation out of Marion, Indiana, to a plant in another state.

By now, Ampad had pads and folders to put them in. Next on the list: an envelope company.

Bain went back to the bank and borrowed a couple hundred million dollars. Most of the money went to buy the envelope company, but about $70 million went to pay Bain and its investors.

Not long after that, Ampad went public. Bain used the money from the IPO to pay off a chunk of debt. In 1996, American Pad and Paper had its best year.

In 1997, Ampad made another purchase: A printer-paper company called Shade Allied.

The company made continuous-form printer paper, for dot-matrix printers — that old kind of computer paper, with the little holes running down the side.

That purchase didn't turn out so well. And Ampad started having other troubles.

Asian companies came on the scene with cheaper products. The price of pulp jumped. Ampad's revenues started to fall. And they have to keep paying interest on all that debt.

In 2000 — four years after the IPO— Ampad declared bankruptcy. Stockholders were wiped out (including Bain, which still owned about a third of the company). Lenders got back a fraction of what they were owed.

"You can't continue to leverage companies up," says Russell Gard. "At some point, there's going to be a breaking point."

Clearly, the story doesn't always end this way. If it did, the banks wouldn't keep lending private equity companies like Bain massive amounts of money.

And Ampad itself? The pad company?

You can still get an Ampad pad today. The company is now being run by another private equity firm. A firm that saw an undervalued company, and bought it at a good price.

How Mitt Romney's Firm Tried

Not saying it is; not saying it isn't. However, when you load a company up with more debt and use that loading-up process to pay yourself back; that probably won't play in Peoria.

Dunkin Donuts went through the same thing and is now heavy in debt.

 

[candycorn]

Bain lost $100 million on CST, moron. Your claims are blatant lies.

How many would have "made it" if they hadn't been there? We don't know.

What happens when Bain takes over was explained by Planet Money a few weeks ago. Basically they instantly take on more debt to pay themselves back for buying controlling interest and then attempt to rehab the company.

What of course isn't understood or, much less, admitted is that the situation for Bain is always "heads they win, tails they don't lose". I would imagine most venture capitalists worth that way.

If you were to look into the Duncan Donuts balance sheet you would see what Bain Does. I hope they "make it" but their debt looks insurmountable. Maybe not. They did start selling their coffee in super markets which was a good move. This may be a Bain save.

You really have no idea what you're talking about; do you?

 

[candycorn]

Tony Soprano Explains Bain Capital

It's an uncharitable look but essentially correct if you accept a book's rough draft and outline as the entire text. The business model is designed to make sure Bain makes and the partners make it big. Nothing more, nothing less. Collateral damage/benefit is just a byproduct of the venture.

But while we're piling on Bain, would it be any different if you took out a loan from a local bank or one of the big 4 banks? Or any other group of investors?

At some point, you have to hold the corporate managers accountable; do you not?

The politics of it is that Romeny's assertions that these were white knight ventures is as incorrect as the video's assertion is uncharitable.

So does that mean all the democrats at/or supporting bain are in the maffia business too?

Huh?

The characterization was uncharitable but essentially right insofar as the bankroller is going to get paid either way regardless and when the investment is no longer useful to them, adios. Not exactly unique characteristic to the private equity (thanks Toro) firms but not exactly something that most Americans--in my opinion--look for in a President.

 

[JoeB131]

Bain lost $100 million on CST, moron. Your claims are blatant lies.

So if Bain lost 100 Million on a company, doesn't that kind of disqualify Romney from being a "genius"?

No.

Warren Buffett has lost lots of money on investments also. It happens with investing.

Warren's not running for President...

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I'd put Romney's record at Bain up against Obama's record on anything, any day, all day.

 

[candycorn]

I'd put Romney's record at Bain up against Obama's record on anything, any day, all day.

So should we use Tax money to invest in borderline businesses that may or may not make a ROI?

That is the model you're endorsing.

I hear the comeback already and the typical "Yeah But" response. Just answer the question; should we adopt the Bain capital model on the Federal level?

 

[The T]

I'd put Romney's record at Bain up against Obama's record on anything, any day, all day.

^Yep.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I'd put Romney's record at Bain up against Obama's record on anything, any day, all day.

So should we use Tax money to invest in borderline businesses that may or may not make a ROI?

That is the model you're endorsing.

I hear the comeback already and the typical "Yeah But" response. Just answer the question; should we adopt the Bain capital model on the Federal level?

Go ahead and break down the Bain model for me, chief. Are you supporting democrats that support Bain?

 

[JoeB131]

Was Bain a profitable company while he was there?

It probably was.

The purpose of the government is not to turn a profit, though.

Truer words have never been spoken, but dont forget, government people HATE profit and people relying on themselves or God, it threatens the governemt and why all communist countries are forced athiest and forced to take what the government gives them.

It's to provide needed services to the people they can't provide for themselves.

This I doubt, the role of govenment is simple, protect the citizens(keyword citizens!!!!!) (military, police) and to organize the country so that people have a chance to make something of themselves (ie capitalism)

Today on Chris Matthews show, Major Garrett was talking about the interviews the Obama folks did with people who worked for Bain Companies that were raided and looted. He said there's stuff there about suicides and ruined lives that were so incendiary even the Obama folks couldn't put them on TV.

Come on Chris Matthews is an arrogant blowhard, who thinks he's so smart, but in reality he's an idiot and useless one at that (see my play on words about a useful idiot)
Bain is Willie Horton Riding in on a Swiftboat.

So are the democrats with bain back to supporting Willie Horton?

Um. No. Obviously, you missed the WH reference completely. It was something that made a candidate look bad that didn't play well with ordinary folks.

The rest of your comments are kind of crazy talk, so let's look at them for a good laugh.

Truer words have never been spoken, but dont forget, government people HATE profit and people relying on themselves or God, it threatens the governemt and why all communist countries are forced athiest and forced to take what the government gives them.

Again, I always find this amusing. If I find the biggest strain on my own self-reliance, it isn't the government, it's employers essentially trying to cheat me at every oppurtunity by using every recession as an excuse to roll back wages and benefits, which never seem to "trickled down" back to working Joe's like me when things "recover".

As for God, I always say, let me toss you off the top of the Sears Tower, and I'll totally convert to your religion if God catches you.

This I doubt, the role of govenment is simple, protect the citizens(keyword citizens!!!!!) (military, police) and to organize the country so that people have a chance to make something of themselves (ie capitalism)

No, not really. In fact, the constitution spends quite a lot of time defining legal rights and determining where government should regulate commerce.

Again, if you want to see the world divided into winners and losers, this is a great world view. I tend to be more humane.

Come on Chris Matthews is an arrogant blowhard, who thinks he's so smart, but in reality he's an idiot and useless one at that (see my play on words about a useful idiot)

Did you miss the part where I stated this was Major Garrett's story, not Matthews. actually, I'm not surprised by this, I think this whole Bain thing is going to be devastating for Romney, just judging by the way he's acting like a scalded cat.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I'd put Romney's record at Bain up against Obama's record on anything, any day, all day.

So should we use Tax money to invest in borderline businesses that may or may not make a ROI?

That is the model you're endorsing.

I hear the comeback already and the typical "Yeah But" response. Just answer the question; should we adopt the Bain capital model on the Federal level?

Private equity firms are not run as if there's an endless supply of money... the U.S. Government has been... no investor wins on every investment... the key is to pick more winners than losers. And of course, when you can trot out the printing presses, that's when you end up with a gazillion dollars lost on pie-in-the sky shit like Solyndra, etc.

I'll take the Bain model any day.

 

[peach174]

I'd put Romney's record at Bain up against Obama's record on anything, any day, all day.

So should we use Tax money to invest in borderline businesses that may or may not make a ROI?

That is the model you're endorsing.

I hear the comeback already and the typical "Yeah But" response. Just answer the question; should we adopt the Bain capital model on the Federal level?

Find a quote or speech where Romany ever said he will use taxpayer money for bailouts.
He is against bailouts.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Solyndra, Solar Power, etc. would have never survived the early stages of due diligence in the private markets and thus would have been passed on by a Bain. Obama however, knowing he can just spend your money, didn't have to worry about the pixie dust and unicorn farts factors of these investments.

 

[The T]

I'd put Romney's record at Bain up against Obama's record on anything, any day, all day.

So should we use Tax money to invest in borderline businesses that may or may not make a ROI?

That is the model you're endorsing.

I hear the comeback already and the typical "Yeah But" response. Just answer the question; should we adopt the Bain capital model on the Federal level?

Find a quote or speech where Romany ever said he will use taxpayer money for bailouts.
He is against bailouts.

Bain Capital is a private solution...but that and Romney are under attack. So Candy just wants to paint a false picture.

 

[buckeye45_73]

It probably was.

The purpose of the government is not to turn a profit, though.

Truer words have never been spoken, but dont forget, government people HATE profit and people relying on themselves or God, it threatens the governemt and why all communist countries are forced athiest and forced to take what the government gives them.

It's to provide needed services to the people they can't provide for themselves.

This I doubt, the role of govenment is simple, protect the citizens(keyword citizens!!!!!) (military, police) and to organize the country so that people have a chance to make something of themselves (ie capitalism)

Today on Chris Matthews show, Major Garrett was talking about the interviews the Obama folks did with people who worked for Bain Companies that were raided and looted. He said there's stuff there about suicides and ruined lives that were so incendiary even the Obama folks couldn't put them on TV.

Come on Chris Matthews is an arrogant blowhard, who thinks he's so smart, but in reality he's an idiot and useless one at that (see my play on words about a useful idiot)
Bain is Willie Horton Riding in on a Swiftboat.

So are the democrats with bain back to supporting Willie Horton?

Um. No. Obviously, you missed the WH reference completely. It was something that made a candidate look bad that didn't play well with ordinary folks.

The rest of your comments are kind of crazy talk, so let's look at them for a good laugh.




Again, I always find this amusing. If I find the biggest strain on my own self-reliance, it isn't the government, it's employers essentially trying to cheat me at every oppurtunity by using every recession as an excuse to roll back wages and benefits, which never seem to "trickled down" back to working Joe's like me when things "recover".


as for the wages, yeah in a recession when you dont make money, it's hard to give out wages, have you ever run a business or known anyone that has? If you want more money, get promoted, I have to do that too, it sucks, but you cant flip burgers your entire life and expect to get rich. Those kinds of jobs are for teenagers, they're not "real" jobs. I dont know of anyone in a company that expects to get a huge increase in their pay staying at the same job. I dont even think the governement offers that. I had my 401 k stopped at my employer, but guess what after a year they reinstated it, sounds like you're working for the wrong company, not every businessman is good or bad and same with any walk of life. If your company sucks that bad, look to jump ship, freedom is wonderful you can apply other places, people do it all the time, kinda like sports free agency, us working class folk can do that too.

As for God, I always say, let me toss you off the top of the Sears Tower, and I'll totally convert to your religion if God catches you.
Ok so you've never heard of free will, of course not, socialist dont like people doing things for themselves. Look God isnt going to save you if you do something stupid, he could, but then we'd have alot more idiots on Earth, so he lets people do stuff and if they believe in him and ask him, he might just help them out, but not if they do something stupid like that.


So you think people just evolved from nothing and space was once as tiny as an atom and then exploded just for fun and people developed from apes, yet we have apes and people, yet nothing in between, evolution just stopped?

This I doubt, the role of govenment is simple, protect the citizens(keyword citizens!!!!!) (military, police) and to organize the country so that people have a chance to make something of themselves (ie capitalism)

No, not really. In fact, the constitution spends quite a lot of time defining legal rights and determining where government should regulate commerce.

Again, if you want to see the world divided into winners and losers, this is a great world view. I tend to be more humane.

Humane....kinda like the Kamir Rouge, Stalin, Castro, Chavez (I still love how he bans American money and pretty much any economic developement or modern lifestyle, yet his daughter is on a webcam tossing it around, while 98% of the country is starving)
Yeah like I said it does allow for some structure (ie regulation, ect) but you're a commiet that wants everyone to be a loser (sorry I have yet to see a communist country show middle class and poor people with remotely the lifestyle of the USA)
You realiize that big business is helped by big governement, correct? Do you know how? (ie hint it's harder to make it with lots of regulation)
SDo you realize all the tiny, stupid and useless regulations

Come on Chris Matthews is an arrogant blowhard, who thinks he's so smart, but in reality he's an idiot and useless one at that (see my play on words about a useful idiot)

Did you miss the part where I stated this was Major Garrett's story, not Matthews. actually, I'm not surprised by this, I think this whole Bain thing is going to be devastating for Romney, just judging by the way he's acting like a scalded cat.

OOh it was Maor Garrett on Chris Mathews' show and I'm sure old Chris really "challenged" it, didnt he? MSNBC is nothing but class. I mean NBC news blows up cars to falsify safety records, and they doctor tapes to make someone seem like a racist...yeah it's from a credible source

 

[Toro]

So if Bain lost 100 Million on a company, doesn't that kind of disqualify Romney from being a "genius"?

No.

Warren Buffett has lost lots of money on investments also. It happens with investing.

Warren's not running for President...

Since when did being a genius become a qualification for becoming President?

 

[blackhawk]

Did the companies that Bain invested in while Romney was there create more jobs than say Solyndra and the other green energy companies the government has sunk money into under Obama?

 

[The T]

Did the companies that Bain invested in while Romney was there create more jobs than say Solyndra and the other green energy companies the government has sunk money into under Obama?

Obama and Statist policies have destroyed more business than EVER created. And besides? it isn't government's function to create jobs...only to create and maintain conditions that keep commerce flowing and the economy strong.

They wish to however not see it and maintain thier failure for interest of control over the people.

 

[code1211]

Creating Jobs Wasn't Romney's Job

So, why is he touting his success at Bain to give him "cred" as a Presidential candidate?

Was Bain a profitable company while he was there?

It probably was.

The purpose of the government is not to turn a profit, though.

It's to provide needed services to the people they can't provide for themselves.

Today on Chris Matthews show, Major Garrett was talking about the interviews the Obama folks did with people who worked for Bain Companies that were raided and looted. He said there's stuff there about suicides and ruined lives that were so incendiary even the Obama folks couldn't put them on TV.

Bain is Willie Horton Riding in on a Swiftboat.

Again, which of the companies acquired by Bain were successful at the time of acquisition?

If they were successful, why were they sold by the ownership?

 

[code1211]

Tony Soprano Explains Bain Capital

It's an uncharitable look but essentially correct if you accept a book's rough draft and outline as the entire text. The business model is designed to make sure Bain makes and the partners make it big. Nothing more, nothing less. Collateral damage/benefit is just a byproduct of the venture.

But while we're piling on Bain, would it be any different if you took out a loan from a local bank or one of the big 4 banks? Or any other group of investors?

At some point, you have to hold the corporate managers accountable; do you not?

The politics of it is that Romeny's assertions that these were white knight ventures is as incorrect as the video's assertion is uncharitable.

Has he said these were white knight ventures?