Rolling Stone Exposes Bain and Romney...

[bripat9643]

It's "legitimte" if it helps the business, dummy.

Wrong. Even expenses that don't help the company are legitimate. If it's legal, it's "legitimate." That's the only definition of the term that makes any sense.

If it harms the business, and this was almost certainly the case here where it became impossible for these companies to keep their doors open and meet their obligations to meet Bain's profiteering demands, it wasn't legitimate.

The fact it was legal is immaterial to the fact it was 1) Wrong and 2) Bad business.

What you want is for the government to decide months or years after they occured that certain actions aren't legitimate because some scumbag politician doesn't like the results. That's called an "ex-post facto" law, and the Constitution specifically disallows it. You're value judgements about what private corporations should or not do are not law.

 

[bripat9643]

You can't even follow the subject of this discussion. The expenses we are discussing are the ones Bain incurred acquiring companies and listed on its 1040 form.

The moronic claim that the banks created the financial panic is a separate discussion.

You have a link to that Bain 1040?

Joe is the one making claims about what Bain put on its 1040. Ask him.

 

[JoeB131]

It's "legitimte" if it helps the business, dummy.

Wrong. Even expenses that don't help the company are legitimate. If it's legal, it's "legitimate." That's the only definition of the term that makes any sense.

If it harms the business, and this was almost certainly the case here where it became impossible for these companies to keep their doors open and meet their obligations to meet Bain's profiteering demands, it wasn't legitimate.

The fact it was legal is immaterial to the fact it was 1) Wrong and 2) Bad business.

What you want is for the government to decide months or years after they occured that certain actions aren't legitimate because some scumbag politician doesn't like the results. That's called an "ex-post facto" law, and the Constitution specifically disallows it. You're value judgements about what private corporations should or not do are not law.

NO, but they ought to be.

Frankly, here's the problem. We've capitalized gain and we've socialized loss.

Romney's failures probably far outweigh his gains... but someone else got left holding the bag for the failures... while he sailed off into the sunset (and teh Cayman Islands) with the gains.

 

[Toro]

If I hate someone, they probably did something fairly fucked up...

Destroying my country, the country I served for 11 years with honor and distinction, yeah, that's pretty fucked up.

Now, hey, I'm fair guy, and frankly, I totally get people make mistakes. But then they should atone for them.

What has Wall Street done to atone?

THey fucked it up, they got their bailouts on the backs of the rest of us, they took their bonuses, and now they are sitting on fat piles of cash until after the election on the hope they can help Obama lose.

You aren't a fair guy.

I'm an exceptionally fair guy. I tell you up front what I think. You know exactly where you stand with me, and I give you a fair chance to plead your case.

It's just when you are standing in the middle of a burned down economy with a can of gasoline and a book of matches, your "not my fault, not my fault" excuse making just doesn't fly.

When Wall Street starts making it up to the rest of us, then I'll be in a more forgiving mood. Right now, I'm not.

Stereotyping people based class or religion is the antithesis of fair (not to mention thinking it is perfectly reasonable for laid off workers to beat their ex-bosses or threaten their kids). You demonstrate clearly in your post, as you have repeatedly, that you pre-judge people and condemn individuals based on guilt by association. That's a pretty warped interpretation of "fairness."

 

[JoeB131]

All Toro posts; "Waaaaaaaaaah, you Hate me! I'm not even going to try to address your valid complaints!"

 

[JoeB131]

Stereotyping people based class or religion is the antithesis of fair (not to mention thinking it is perfectly reasonable for laid off workers to beat their ex-bosses or threaten their kids). You demonstrate clearly in your post, as you have repeatedly, that you pre-judge people and condemn individuals based on guilt by association. That's a pretty warped interpretation of "fairness."

Nope, it just says your group isn't doing enough to police its own...

WHACK!

 

[Toro]

All Toro posts; "Waaaaaaaaaah, you Hate me! I'm not even going to try to address your valid complaints!"

There are valid complaints. I linked to an NPR interview by the authors of The Real Romney giving those complaints. A hack piece by an angry lying shill with an agenda is not. Nor is "Firing the top 1000 Wall Street executives and putting them in re-education camps" or whatever tripe you puked out.

 

[kaz]

Stereotyping people based class or religion is the antithesis of fair (not to mention thinking it is perfectly reasonable for laid off workers to beat their ex-bosses or threaten their kids). You demonstrate clearly in your post, as you have repeatedly, that you pre-judge people and condemn individuals based on guilt by association. That's a pretty warped interpretation of "fairness."

Nope, it just says your group isn't doing enough to police its own...

WHACK!

Funny, you whine and whine to Toro then say "he's" whining. Silence on the subject would have worked better for you

 

[Toro]

Stereotyping people based class or religion is the antithesis of fair (not to mention thinking it is perfectly reasonable for laid off workers to beat their ex-bosses or threaten their kids). You demonstrate clearly in your post, as you have repeatedly, that you pre-judge people and condemn individuals based on guilt by association. That's a pretty warped interpretation of "fairness."

Nope, it just says your group isn't doing enough to police its own...

WHACK!

I think there should be better regulation on Wall Street. But unlike you, I don't walk around in a Fog of Hate, condemning everyone and everything that upsets me.

 

[JoeB131]

All Toro posts; "Waaaaaaaaaah, you Hate me! I'm not even going to try to address your valid complaints!"

There are valid complaints. I linked to an NPR interview by the authors of The Real Romney giving those complaints. A hack piece by an angry lying shill with an agenda is not. Nor is "Firing the top 1000 Wall Street executives and putting them in re-education camps" or whatever tripe you puked out.

I don't want to re-educat them.

I want them thrown in big boy jail with a oversexed cell mate and a jar of vasoline.

And just because I'm fair, I'm including the vasoline....

 

[skookerasbil]

A great article on how Mitt Romney really made his money. Screwing working folks and leaving others with the bill.

And this is where we get to the hypocrisy at the heart of Mitt Romney. Everyone knows that he is fantastically rich, having scored great success, the legend goes, as a "turnaround specialist," a shrewd financial operator who revived moribund companies as a high-priced consultant for a storied Wall Street private equity firm. But what most voters don't know is the way Mitt Romney actually made his fortune: by borrowing vast sums of money that other people were forced to pay back. This is the plain, stark reality that has somehow eluded America's top political journalists for two consecutive presidential campaigns: Mitt Romney is one of the greatest and most irresponsible debt creators of all time. In the past few decades, in fact, Romney has piled more debt onto more unsuspecting companies, written more gigantic checks that other people have to cover, than perhaps all but a handful of people on planet Earth.



Read more: Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital | Politics News | Rolling Stone

politically irrelevant s0n...............you still dont get it. The equivilent of The Weekly Standard putting out a story on Obama not attending Columbia University


Politically null

 

[JoeB131]

Stereotyping people based class or religion is the antithesis of fair (not to mention thinking it is perfectly reasonable for laid off workers to beat their ex-bosses or threaten their kids). You demonstrate clearly in your post, as you have repeatedly, that you pre-judge people and condemn individuals based on guilt by association. That's a pretty warped interpretation of "fairness."

Nope, it just says your group isn't doing enough to police its own...

WHACK!

I think there should be better regulation on Wall Street. But unlike you, I don't walk around in a Fog of Hate, condemning everyone and everything that upsets me.

No, what's needed is REAL PUNISHMENT. Not better regulation.

If they know really bad things are going to happen to them, they'll clean up their behavior.

When we bail out their companies, make sure they get their bonuses, none of them go to jail, and they finance a Weird Mormon Robot to hijack the country so they can do it all over again, they clearly haven't learned a lesson.

 

[Toro]

Nope, it just says your group isn't doing enough to police its own...

WHACK!

I think there should be better regulation on Wall Street. But unlike you, I don't walk around in a Fog of Hate, condemning everyone and everything that upsets me.

No, what's needed is REAL PUNISHMENT. Not better regulation.

If they know really bad things are going to happen to them, they'll clean up their behavior.

When we bail out their companies, make sure they get their bonuses, none of them go to jail, and they finance a Weird Mormon Robot to hijack the country so they can do it all over again, they clearly haven't learned a lesson.

People who committed crimes should be punished for their crimes. But it's not a crime to lose money, nor is it a crime to lose your job. But you want to set up Kangaroo Courts of those you've already deemed guilty by association in a show trial to satisfy your lust for vengeance. This is America, not communist Russia or China.

What rabid haters like yourself fail to realize is that most people who work in finance were hurt too. But instead, wandering around in a Fog of Hate, you dream up wild conspiracy theories to rationalize your hatred.

 

[JoeB131]

People who committed crimes should be punished for their crimes. But it's not a crime to lose money, nor is it a crime to lose your job. But you want to set up Kangaroo Courts of those you've already deemed guilty by association in a show trial to satisfy your lust for vengeance. This is America, not communist Russia or China.

What rabid haters like yourself fail to realize is that most people who work in finance were hurt too. But instead, wandering around in a Fog of Hate, you dream up wild conspiracy theories to rationalize your hatred.

"wwwwwaaaaaah, why do you hate me for messing up everyone's life."

You guys caused the problem. if you were the only guys who got hurt, it wouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately, everyone got hurt by your greed and your recklessness.

In an ideal world, you'd be laying low...

 

[Toro]

So the deduction of interest expense is "corporate welfare"? Never mind that NOT taking money from someone is not how I would define "welfare"; interest expense is a legitimate business expense, and is far from welfare (notwithstanding the "unbiased" way the article refers to its use for "looting" its targets). Let's not forget that the deduction for interest expense costs the government not one cent in lost revenue. Why? Because the entity on the other side of the transaction (bondholders or banks) have taxable interest income, and they then pay the tax. This is the way most business deductions work; one side considers it expense and gets a deduction, the other side considers it income and it is taxed. This avoids both sides being taxed for the same transaction. This effectively taxes (on an aggregate basis) only the actual wealth created by the parties. You might as well just characterize it as the private equity firm getting the banks to pay the taxes for them; why consider it as a loophole to be closed?

The mortgage deduction has no relation to the deduction of interest as a business expense; in that case you are giving a deduction for someone to make a purchase for personal use, and those are rarely deductible. Personal interest deductions for everything but mortgage debt were eliminated in the 80's. So the quote from the article "exploiting a tax deduction specifically designed for mortgage holders" is not only wrong, it shows how little the author understands about (or perhaps how dishonest he is willing to be about) the tax system.

Joe will not respond to this because you just proved that he and his source are both a couple of numskulls.

Actually the Author was pretty clear on how Bain exploited this loophole... and destroyed companies...

But like I said, let's have Romney release his tax returns, I'm sure he can show us all that the author is totally wrong... I mean, it's not like he's hiding anything, right?

Deduction of interest expense is not a loophole. This description shows why Taibbi is a lying hack.

And tax returns wouldn't corroborate any of this.

 

[JoeB131]

Deduction of interest expense is not a loophole. This description shows why Taibbi is a lying hack.

And tax returns wouldn't corroborate any of this.

Guy, enough. I'm sure you think what you do is really important and really right, but the rest of us have had enough of working ourselves to death to finance your greed.

 

[Toro]

People who committed crimes should be punished for their crimes. But it's not a crime to lose money, nor is it a crime to lose your job. But you want to set up Kangaroo Courts of those you've already deemed guilty by association in a show trial to satisfy your lust for vengeance. This is America, not communist Russia or China.

What rabid haters like yourself fail to realize is that most people who work in finance were hurt too. But instead, wandering around in a Fog of Hate, you dream up wild conspiracy theories to rationalize your hatred.

"wwwwwaaaaaah, why do you hate me for messing up everyone's life."

You guys caused the problem. if you were the only guys who got hurt, it wouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately, everyone got hurt by your greed and your recklessness.

In an ideal world, you'd be laying low...

^^^^^^^^^^
Bigot's a-hatin'!

"Kill all dem *******! Dey's all guilty!"

 

[Barb]

a great article on how mitt romney really made his money. Screwing working folks and leaving others with the bill.

and this is where we get to the hypocrisy at the heart of mitt romney. Everyone knows that he is fantastically rich, having scored great success, the legend goes, as a "turnaround specialist," a shrewd financial operator who revived moribund companies as a high-priced consultant for a storied wall street private equity firm. But what most voters don't know is the way mitt romney actually made his fortune: By borrowing vast sums of money that other people were forced to pay back. this is the plain, stark reality that has somehow eluded america's top political journalists for two consecutive presidential campaigns: mitt romney is one of the greatest and most irresponsible debt creators of all time. In the past few decades, in fact, romney has piled more debt onto more unsuspecting companies, written more gigantic checks that other people have to cover, than perhaps all but a handful of people on planet earth.



read more: greed and debt: The true story of mitt romney and bain capital | politics news | rolling stone

other peoples money.

 

[paulitician]

Rolling Stone has become so lame and predictable. Who reads it anymore? We get it, it's Rah Rah Rah!! for the Democrats. It's so old & stale now.

 

[JoeB131]

People who committed crimes should be punished for their crimes. But it's not a crime to lose money, nor is it a crime to lose your job. But you want to set up Kangaroo Courts of those you've already deemed guilty by association in a show trial to satisfy your lust for vengeance. This is America, not communist Russia or China.

What rabid haters like yourself fail to realize is that most people who work in finance were hurt too. But instead, wandering around in a Fog of Hate, you dream up wild conspiracy theories to rationalize your hatred.

"wwwwwaaaaaah, why do you hate me for messing up everyone's life."

You guys caused the problem. if you were the only guys who got hurt, it wouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately, everyone got hurt by your greed and your recklessness.

In an ideal world, you'd be laying low...

^^^^^^^^^^
Bigot's a-hatin'!

"Kill all dem *******! Dey's all guilty!"

So how many of your fellows have you turned in to the SEC for their criminality?

Or did you all shut up faster than the Mafia... nobody saw nuthin'