Robotic takeover : When labour value tends to zero.

[EdwardBaiamonte]

We provide public education, roads, weather warnings and much more...There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to focus some of this productivity towards societies advantage.

100% stupid of course . we provide free public education for societies advantage. What on earth did you think it was for??????????

 

[CultureCitizen]

All corporations care about is productivity. Robots are the perfect tool to get the most out of the hours of work...

I am simply saying that we the people should benefit from this productivity in eliminating hunger and giving everyone their basic needs. I think robots can be a very good thing but we must not allow the pure capitalist bs to drive our society into great poverty.

Well Matthew, so far the options are :

a) provide a minimum income
b) make sure you get a fair amount of land and capital goods to become less independent on corporations.

Frankly option a is a lot simpler ... but I can already hear right wingers screaming : robbery!! theft!!!

 

[Jomama]

I think we could do option B once every 20 years as wealth reverts back to the same hands it started in. Would option A include mandatory work and drug testing?

 

[CultureCitizen]

I think we could do option B once every 20 years as wealth reverts back to the same hands it started in. Would option A include mandatory work and drug testing?

Jomama,
Drug tests, yes, that could work. Work: the problem would be the lack of jobs. Think of what will happen in 10 years. It is likely all vehicles will become self-driving. What jobs will bus and taxi drivers get ? ... yes , they can retool their skills and get a new job. Now think what will happen in 20 or 40 more years. So no , probably no mandatory job... but I am having second thoughts, maybe a social work : helping other countries in distress. That could work.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss what ammendments should be done to the capitalist system in case of an almost complete takeover by AI and robots.
I say almost complete, because there will probably be some job to be done, but just not by the 95% of the population.
Also , when I say tends to zero is because labour will still have a market value, but it will have to be competitive with robots , I will assume a do-anything robot will cost like a compact car : $10,000, will have a lifetime of 10 years and consume abuout 0.25 gge ( gas gallon equivalent per day) and require 25% of its value in maintenance. Adding it up : the market value of labour will be $4.5 per day.

Normally the cyclic model works in the following way:
households provide labour
corporations provide goods and services to other corporations and to households and consume the labour provided by households.

Rules of engagement.
- Engage into discussion assuming this is a plausible scenario even if it will happen 50 or 100 years in the future.
- Imagine different scenarios on what could go wrong or how this situation could be better than our current situation ( e.g. politicians could be replaced ).
- Do not rant on how this scenario is imposible ( if I wanted to hear this , then I would have made a poll, just to know the general opinion on plausibility). Such posts will be ignored.

At least the guys in TestTube News are having my same thoughts. What will happen?

 

[Moonglow]

I am really wondering how robots will reshape the cyclic economic model.
.

dear, a wheel is, in effect, a robot. Now do you understand? I pride myself on making things simple enough for even a liberal to understand.

So you wheel your robotic dildo to your azz...ok...

 

[Moonglow]

We provide public education, roads, weather warnings and much more...There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to focus some of this productivity towards societies advantage.

100% stupid of course . we provide free public education for societies advantage. What on earth did you think it was for??????????

Wrong, public school is to educate to be better producers and performers in the work world..the corporate world also determines what you must learn and what is taught.......

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Well Matthew, so far the options are :

a) provide a minimum income

Or provide the free market so even after farm machinery replaced every job on earth ten times over employment is still at 95%

How insane is it to worry that machines are going to replace people when they have been doing it for 10,000 years and employment is still 95%???

 

[Jomama]

Well Matthew, so far the options are :

a) provide a minimum income

Or provide the free market so even after farm machinery replaced every job on earth ten times over employment is still at 95%

How insane is it to worry that machines are going to replace people when they have been doing it for 10,000 years and employment is still 95%???

100% Stupid and Liberal of course.
Only a stupid liberal would think that machines have been around for 10,000 years.
Only a stupid liberal would be so ignorant on employment metrics to think that we have 95% employment. 5% off full employment?
Only a stupid liberal would be so poor at math as to say; "farm machinery replaced every job on earth ten times over".

Your stupidity and liberal thinking has disqualified you from this forum topic.





.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Well Matthew, so far the options are :

a) provide a minimum income

Or provide the free market so even after farm machinery replaced every job on earth ten times over employment is still at 95%

How insane is it to worry that machines are going to replace people when they have been doing it for 10,000 years and employment is still 95%???

Throughout history you have been right on this point. New jobs always pop up and people always have work. But why not if it becomes possible for us to use the machines to feed our population for a simple small tax to maintain the infrastructure?

 

[CultureCitizen]

Well Matthew, so far the options are :

a) provide a minimum income

Or provide the free market so even after farm machinery replaced every job on earth ten times over employment is still at 95%

How insane is it to worry that machines are going to replace people when they have been doing it for 10,000 years and employment is still 95%???

Throughout history you have been right on this point. New jobs always pop up and people always have work. But why not if it becomes possible for us to use the machines to feed our population for a simple small tax to maintain the infrastructure?

I've discussed this with Special Ed several times, he just seems to keep forgeting our previous discussions.
Yes, it is true, in the long run employments are recovered , but "long run" in the previous case meant 50 years.
For fifty years factory workers had a miserable salary and a miserable life, it was only after that period of time that wages started rising.

So , if it boils down to it , it is better to have a minimum income and social / public works than to have a whole population living in missery, just because the market can't provide decent jobs.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Well Matthew, so far the options are :

a) provide a minimum income

Or provide the free market so even after farm machinery replaced every job on earth ten times over employment is still at 95%

How insane is it to worry that machines are going to replace people when they have been doing it for 10,000 years and employment is still 95%???

Throughout history you have been right on this point. New jobs always pop up and people always have work. But why not if it becomes possible for us to use the machines to feed our population for a simple small tax to maintain the infrastructure?

I've discussed this with Special Ed several times, he just seems to keep forgeting our previous discussions.
Yes, it is true, in the long run employments are recovered , but "long run" in the previous case meant 50 years.
For fifty years factory workers had a miserable salary and a miserable life, it was only after that period of time that wages started rising.

So , if it boils down to it , it is better to have a minimum income and social / public works than to have a whole population living in missery, just because the market can't provide decent jobs.

Krugman had a review in NYTIMES over weekend of a new book about how no new big inventions are coming in the near future( let alone creep's robots) they way they came 1870-1920. He is right so why not move this thread to Sci Fi. Its not economics. Sorry to rock your world once again.

Interestingly in what liberals call "Robber Baron" period there was some wage stagnation caused by almost unlimited immigration. Liberals lack the brains to see that now the problem is 20 million liberal illegals and other liberal policies that drive our corporations off shore.

Move this liberal lunacy to Sci Fi page!!.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

But why not if it becomes possible for us to use the machines to feed our population for a simple small tax to maintain the infrastructure?

no idea what you are trying to ask?????????

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. But why not if it becomes possible for us to use the machines to feed our population

dear, farm machines have gotten better and better and do feed our population so that percent who are farmers in the USA has dropped from 95% to 1% yet employment is still 95%. The computer has recently replaced secretaries and photographers and many others almost completely but still employment is 95% and that is with the 20 million liberal illegals, highest liberal corporate taxes in world, liberal unions, and liberal war on our families and schools. Do you see the pattern?

 

[CultureCitizen]

Well Matthew, so far the options are :

a) provide a minimum income

Or provide the free market so even after farm machinery replaced every job on earth ten times over employment is still at 95%

How insane is it to worry that machines are going to replace people when they have been doing it for 10,000 years and employment is still 95%???

Throughout history you have been right on this point. New jobs always pop up and people always have work. But why not if it becomes possible for us to use the machines to feed our population for a simple small tax to maintain the infrastructure?

I've discussed this with Special Ed several times, he just seems to keep forgeting our previous discussions.
Yes, it is true, in the long run employments are recovered , but "long run" in the previous case meant 50 years.
For fifty years factory workers had a miserable salary and a miserable life, it was only after that period of time that wages started rising.

So , if it boils down to it , it is better to have a minimum income and social / public works than to have a whole population living in missery, just because the market can't provide decent jobs.

Krugman had a review in NYTIMES over weekend of a new book about how no new big inventions are coming in the near future( let alone creep's robots) they way they came 1870-1920. He is right so why not move this thread to Sci Fi. Its not economics. Sorry to rock your world once again.

Interestingly in what liberals call "Robber Baron" period there was some wage stagnation caused by almost unlimited immigration. Liberals lack the brains to see that now the problem is 20 million liberal illegals and other liberal policies that drive our corporations off shore.

Move this liberal lunacy to Sci Fi page!!.

The fact that something is science fiction in the present doesn't mean it will not become a reallity in the future.
The submarine, the aircrafts and moon voyages were all science fiction by the time Jules Verne wrote about them.
Now they belong to the past.

The WEF thinks this is also a trend
Robots May Replace More Than 5 Million Human Jobs By 2020 Says WEF

Robots May Replace More Than 5 Million Human Jobs By 2020 Says WEF

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Robots May Replace More Than 5 Million Human Jobs By 2020 Says WEF

dear, machines replace 10's of millions all the time. The PC replaced more than that and the mobile phone more than that. You're talking about nothing.

5 million jobs in a world of 3.5 billion jobs????? Trivia because you cant talk about economics!!

 

[Jomama]

A Robot Is Coming to Steal Your Job
7.1 million jobs could be lost to automation and automatons over the next five years -- and only 2 millions jobs created to replace them.

A Robot Is Coming to Steal Your Job -- The Motley Fool

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

A Robot Is Coming to Steal Your Job
7.1 million jobs could be lost to automation and automatons over the next five years -- and only 2 millions jobs created to replace them.

A Robot Is Coming to Steal Your Job -- The Motley Fool

stupid article since:
1) 7 million is trivial in a world of 4 billion
2) new machines like the wheel hammer saw nail electricity farm equipment etc replaced all the jobs on earth 100 times over and still employment is 95%
3) as machines replace people our incomes go up, not down!

 

[Wyatt earp]

A Robot Is Coming to Steal Your Job
7.1 million jobs could be lost to automation and automatons over the next five years -- and only 2 millions jobs created to replace them.

A Robot Is Coming to Steal Your Job -- The Motley Fool

stupid article since:
1) 7 million is trivial in a world of 4 billion
2) new machines like the wheel hammer saw nail electricity farm equipment etc replaced all the jobs on earth 100 times over and still employment is 95%
3) as machines replace people our incomes go up, not down!

They are talking American jobs....

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

They are talking American jobs....

not actually:
"Over the next five years, warns the report, global employment will not rise, but rather fall by 0.5%. 7.1 million jobs will be lost globally because of changes in technology".