Robotic takeover : When labour value tends to zero.

[Freemason9]

This is exactly what I would like to discuss. Goods will still be scarce , so we will still need trade and markets. And yet , with little labour supply households will have little bargaining power. Even worse, there will be no need to produce those consumer goods.
One possible solution would be wealth re distribution through taxation, increasing the importance of corporate taxes, relative to the importance of individual income taxes.

With unlimited extremely cheap and highly skilled labor why would goods be scarce?

And the hope that humans would "explore arts, humanities, culture, science, and other liberal arts" is unlikely. Having the majority of the people being unable to contribute meaningfully to society would most likely produce a decadent culture to a degree not seen before.

Goods would be cheaper ( the labour costs would be minimum ) but there would be a small amount of jobs.
This situation is not completely unlikely : it happened during the begining of the industrial revolution . It took nearly 50 years for the market to correct the problem.
Will the market be able to correct this new situation or is a different kind of solution required ?

Cheaper is the opposite of scarce.

So how does that change effect your scenario?

I'm not sure: agriculture is already automated in a 99% . Does that mean everyone has food ? Unfortunately not, but this is changing for good rapidly.

I also think about how China has affected the US sure, goods (from China) are cheap, but how good is that when you have no employment and income.

I am thinking one should avoid getting crammed in cities and get hold of some land.

The flip side of this issue is sustainability and the damage being done to the enviroment through industrial agriculture. I live in the American midwest, and the impact farming has had on the environment is shocking (polluted groundwater, elimination of trees, surface water contamination, and topsoil destruction). I'm fairly certain that the agricultural industry will be in a crisis state within decades. You would be amazed at how much--and how many--chemicals are required to grow field corn and soybeans, and that's what most midwestern farmers want to grow. It's easy, and it's subsidized!









There is more than enough food produced to feed everyone on the planet twice over. The sad reality is that billions of tons of food are wasted due to human greed, incompetence, corruption, and hatred.

 

[Unkotare]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss what ammendments should be done to the capitalist system in case of an almost complete takeover by AI and robots.
I say almost complete, because there will probably be some job to be done, but just not by the 95% of the population.
Also , when I say tends to zero is because labour will still have a market value, but it will have to be competitive with robots , I will assume a do-anything robot will cost like a compact car : $10,000, will have a lifetime of 10 years and consume abuout 0.25 gge ( gas gallon equivalent per day) and require 25% of its value in maintenance. Adding it up : the market value of labour will be $4.5 per day.

Normally the cyclic model works in the following way:
households provide labour
corporations provide goods and services to other corporations and to households and consume the labour provided by households.

Rules of engagement.
- Engage into discussion assuming this is a plausible scenario even if it will happen 50 or 100 years in the future.
- Imagine different scenarios on what could go wrong or how this situation could be better than our current situation ( e.g. politicians could be replaced ).
- Do not rant on how this scenario is imposible ( if I wanted to hear this , then I would have made a poll, just to know the general opinion on plausibility). Such posts will be ignored.

I think the world could be a much better place if we eliminate work. Why do we have to work? There will always be ceo's vps directors managers it guys and a few manual labor types but the workers will be there to supervisor the robots. We will be paper pushers not grunts.

It would be silly not to use a technicalogical advancement because you're worried about the workers.

We didn't worry about dish washers being out of work when we invented the dishwasher. Or we didn't worry about blacks when we invented the cotton gin. Lol

No dirty jobs on the starship enterprise, right?

Did the people on star trek get a paycheck? I suppose when they went home they had bank accounts.

Star trek depicts post-scarcity , the energy we produce in the whole planet is peanuts compared to the energy required to take a ship to Alpha Centauri .

It would be a happy coincidence that we reached automation and post-scarcity at the same time, but I don't think that will happen.

With cheap highly skilled labor all problems become more solvable.

Nuclear power plants, OTECs, SPSs, all more practical is the labor costs drops by 95%.

I would be surprised if post work did NOT lead in short order to POst scarcity.

Yes , problems would become more solvable.
With cheap labor goods and services would drop their costs to roughly by half.

The only problem is with little or no jobs , how would households get any income at all ?

It does remind me the fact that so many jobs have been lost to offshoring , sure goods are cheaper , but how good is that if you can't get a job or you can just get a very low paying job?

Wage share - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So hopefully in the future the people who struggle either have no children or one. Nothing wrong with the population shrinking, especially when we're consuming all our resources now.

What would be bad about the population being cut in half?

Depends on which half YOU would be in.

 

[sealybobo]

I think the world could be a much better place if we eliminate work. Why do we have to work? There will always be ceo's vps directors managers it guys and a few manual labor types but the workers will be there to supervisor the robots. We will be paper pushers not grunts.

It would be silly not to use a technicalogical advancement because you're worried about the workers.

We didn't worry about dish washers being out of work when we invented the dishwasher. Or we didn't worry about blacks when we invented the cotton gin. Lol

No dirty jobs on the starship enterprise, right?

Did the people on star trek get a paycheck? I suppose when they went home they had bank accounts.

Star trek depicts post-scarcity , the energy we produce in the whole planet is peanuts compared to the energy required to take a ship to Alpha Centauri .

It would be a happy coincidence that we reached automation and post-scarcity at the same time, but I don't think that will happen.

With cheap highly skilled labor all problems become more solvable.

Nuclear power plants, OTECs, SPSs, all more practical is the labor costs drops by 95%.

I would be surprised if post work did NOT lead in short order to POst scarcity.

Yes , problems would become more solvable.
With cheap labor goods and services would drop their costs to roughly by half.

The only problem is with little or no jobs , how would households get any income at all ?

It does remind me the fact that so many jobs have been lost to offshoring , sure goods are cheaper , but how good is that if you can't get a job or you can just get a very low paying job?

Wage share - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So hopefully in the future the people who struggle either have no children or one. Nothing wrong with the population shrinking, especially when we're consuming all our resources now.

What would be bad about the population being cut in half?

Depends on which half YOU would be in.

I'm not having any kids so I would be part of the solution, not part of the problem. I know you don't think humans are overpopulating the planet but you are wrong. Not the first time you've been wrong. Fish. LOL.

 

[Unkotare]

Star trek depicts post-scarcity , the energy we produce in the whole planet is peanuts compared to the energy required to take a ship to Alpha Centauri .

It would be a happy coincidence that we reached automation and post-scarcity at the same time, but I don't think that will happen.

With cheap highly skilled labor all problems become more solvable.

Nuclear power plants, OTECs, SPSs, all more practical is the labor costs drops by 95%.

I would be surprised if post work did NOT lead in short order to POst scarcity.

Yes , problems would become more solvable.
With cheap labor goods and services would drop their costs to roughly by half.

The only problem is with little or no jobs , how would households get any income at all ?

It does remind me the fact that so many jobs have been lost to offshoring , sure goods are cheaper , but how good is that if you can't get a job or you can just get a very low paying job?

Wage share - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So hopefully in the future the people who struggle either have no children or one. Nothing wrong with the population shrinking, especially when we're consuming all our resources now.

What would be bad about the population being cut in half?

Depends on which half YOU would be in.

I'm not having any kids so I would be part of the solution, not part of the problem. I know you don't think humans are overpopulating the planet but you are wrong. Not the first time you've been wrong. Fish. LOL.

If you think the population is too large, lead by example. Of course you won't, fish.

 

[sealybobo]

With cheap highly skilled labor all problems become more solvable.

Nuclear power plants, OTECs, SPSs, all more practical is the labor costs drops by 95%.

I would be surprised if post work did NOT lead in short order to POst scarcity.

Yes , problems would become more solvable.
With cheap labor goods and services would drop their costs to roughly by half.

The only problem is with little or no jobs , how would households get any income at all ?

It does remind me the fact that so many jobs have been lost to offshoring , sure goods are cheaper , but how good is that if you can't get a job or you can just get a very low paying job?

Wage share - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So hopefully in the future the people who struggle either have no children or one. Nothing wrong with the population shrinking, especially when we're consuming all our resources now.

What would be bad about the population being cut in half?

Depends on which half YOU would be in.

I'm not having any kids so I would be part of the solution, not part of the problem. I know you don't think humans are overpopulating the planet but you are wrong. Not the first time you've been wrong. Fish. LOL.

If you think the population is too large, lead by example. Of course you won't, fish.

I already told you I'm not having any kids so I am leading by example. You know who was a hypocrite when it comes to this?


Meathead. He ended up having Joey. I won't be having any Joey's.

Happy Thanksgiving Fish.

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You say the word fish much too much. Makes me think that's what people called you when you wrestled IF you ever wrestled. But I'm thinking you did because that's a term used in the wrestling world. I don't think a non wrestler would remember to use that term. LOL. Were you a fish? What weight class did you wrestle? I only wrestled 3 years and by my senior year I was all state and got a scholarship to go to college. No fish ever did that.

 

[Unkotare]

Fish said there ARE too many people in the world, but fish won't do the one useful thing he could do to instantly change that to a degree.

 

[Unkotare]

There are fish at the college level as well, even in D1. It's relative, fish.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I say almost complete, because there will probably be some job to be done, but just not by the 95% of the population.
.

of course thats a stupid stupid stupid illiterate liberal thought. There would be no work for robots to do if 95% of the people could not afford to buy what the robots produced.

 

[CultureCitizen]

I say almost complete, because there will probably be some job to be done, but just not by the 95% of the population.
.

of course thats a stupid stupid stupid illiterate liberal thought. There would be no work for robots to do if 95% of the people could not afford to buy what the robots produced.

Not necesarily Ed,
It could happen that that 5% decided to go on a shopping spree : multiple houses , airplanes , space craft , water craft , new organs, gene therapy ... and they would mostly trade between themselves.
Why care about the 95% . If they didn't get any valuable assets before the AI era, well pity.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I say almost complete, because there will probably be some job to be done, but just not by the 95% of the population.
.

of course thats a stupid stupid stupid illiterate liberal thought. There would be no work for robots to do if 95% of the people could not afford to buy what the robots produced.

Not necesarily Ed,
It could happen that that 5% decided to go on a shopping spree : multiple houses , airplanes , space craft , water craft , new organs, gene therapy ... and they would mostly trade between themselves.
Why care about the 95% . If they didn't get any valuable assets before the AI era, well pity.

100% stupid and liberal as always, technology has already replaced all the jobs on earth 56 times and nothing like your totally idiotic sci fi has happened.

when the tractor plow harvester etc replaced 95% the human race who were farmers idiots like you could not imagine what the 95% would do for a living. Get it now? Feel stupid??

 

[AdvancingTime]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss what ammendments should be done to the capitalist system in case of an almost complete takeover by AI and robots.
I say almost complete, because there will probably be some job to be done, but just not by the 95% of the population.
Also , when I say tends to zero is because labour will still have a market value, but it will have to be competitive with robots , I will assume a do-anything robot will cost like a compact car : $10,000, will have a lifetime of 10 years and consume abuout 0.25 gge ( gas gallon equivalent per day) and require 25% of its value in maintenance. Adding it up : the market value of labour will be $4.5 per day.

Normally the cyclic model works in the following way:
households provide labour
corporations provide goods and services to other corporations and to households and consume the labour provided by households.

Rules of engagement.
- Engage into discussion assuming this is a plausible scenario even if it will happen 50 or 100 years in the future.
- Imagine different scenarios on what could go wrong or how this situation could be better than our current situation ( e.g. politicians could be replaced ).
- Do not rant on how this scenario is imposible ( if I wanted to hear this , then I would have made a poll, just to know the general opinion on plausibility). Such posts will be ignored.

OK...here are the rules

No Terminators allowed
No Robot sex
Players in the NFL will be tested to see if they are Robots

Robot sex might be one of the creepiest alternatives that come to my mind ... and that's not the future .
Really ... no, that's not a woman , it's a doll .

Wicked RealDoll - RealDoll - The World's Finest Love Doll

Dear sir, I appreciate both your post and the question you put forth. Whether you wish an answer or simply want to provoke thought about how robots will impact both our culture and our future in either case i salute your effort. Robots are a subject that I have written several articles about in the past, Below is an introduction to one of those, and at the end of that article are links to several others. This is indeed a subject we cannot sidestep. Best of luck to you.

We should all try to be grownups and face the fact that robots have uses other than moving things around the factory floor. Sex-bots could make our human spouses obsolete, someone had to say it. Robots are being looked at to fulfill a variety of needs, some of these uses are less distasteful than the killing machines the military seeks.

The integration of robots into our culture will bring about massive changes in society and could cause many people to totally rethink how the define the term "relationship". The article below titled, "Sex-bots Could Make Spouse Obsolete" explores some of the ramifications and advancements being made in related industries.

Advancing Time: Sex-bots Could Make Spouse Obsolete

 

[Iceweasel]

We should all try to be grownups and face the fact that robots have uses other than moving things around the factory floor. Sex-bots could make our human spouses obsolete, someone had to say it. Robots are being looked at to fulfill a variety of needs, some of these uses are less distasteful than the killing machines the military seeks.

The integration of robots into our culture will bring about massive changes in society and could cause many people to totally rethink how the define the term "relationship". The article below titled, "Sex-bots Could Make Spouse Obsolete" explores some of the ramifications and advancements being made in related industries.

Advancing Time: Sex-bots Could Make Spouse Obsolete

So you may eventually get laid yet, is that what you're saying?

 

[Moonglow]

We should all try to be grownups and face the fact that robots have uses other than moving things around the factory floor. Sex-bots could make our human spouses obsolete, someone had to say it. Robots are being looked at to fulfill a variety of needs, some of these uses are less distasteful than the killing machines the military seeks.

The integration of robots into our culture will bring about massive changes in society and could cause many people to totally rethink how the define the term "relationship". The article below titled, "Sex-bots Could Make Spouse Obsolete" explores some of the ramifications and advancements being made in related industries.

Advancing Time: Sex-bots Could Make Spouse Obsolete

So you may eventually get laid yet, is that what you're saying?

He wishes the wheel had never been invented...It took jobs away from human hauling...

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

He wishes the wheel had never been invented...It took jobs away from human hauling...

I suppose a robot resembles a human more than a wheel so a liberal will get confused but it will be 1000 years before the robot replaces as many jobs as the wheel and when it does it will be a good thing just like the wheel was and is.

Its way too complicated for a liberal to understand but what happens is that humans then earn the money that the robot would have earned if it was human. This is how the wheel raised our pay rather than lowered it.

 

[Moonglow]

He wishes the wheel had never been invented...It took jobs away from human hauling...

I suppose a robot resembles a human more than a wheel so a liberal will get confused but it will be 1000 years before the robot replaces as many jobs as the wheel and when it does it will be a good thing just like the wheel was and is.

Its way too complicated for a liberal to understand but what happens is that humans then earn the money that the robot would have earned if it was human. This is how the wheel raised our pay rather than lowered it.

So you are a robotic writer?? We can tell...

 

[CultureCitizen]

He wishes the wheel had never been invented...It took jobs away from human hauling...

I suppose a robot resembles a human more than a wheel so a liberal will get confused but it will be 1000 years before the robot replaces as many jobs as the wheel and when it does it will be a good thing just like the wheel was and is.

Its way too complicated for a liberal to understand but what happens is that humans then earn the money that the robot would have earned if it was human. This is how the wheel raised our pay rather than lowered it.

I am really wondering how robots will reshape the cyclic economic model.
The classic setting is that households provide labour, while corporations provide goods and services using capital and land.
Some corporations might be replaced with robots and arguably households with access to land and capital could become some sort of separated closed cycle to some extent. The question is how will this end. Personally, I am planning to trade my appartment for a house and a patch of land, it will probably give me more leverage.

 

[Unkotare]

 

[Wyatt earp]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss what ammendments should be done to the capitalist system in case of an almost complete takeover by AI and robots.
I say almost complete, because there will probably be some job to be done, but just not by the 95% of the population.
Also , when I say tends to zero is because labour will still have a market value, but it will have to be competitive with robots , I will assume a do-anything robot will cost like a compact car : $10,000, will have a lifetime of 10 years and consume abuout 0.25 gge ( gas gallon equivalent per day) and require 25% of its value in maintenance. Adding it up : the market value of labour will be $4.5 per day.

Normally the cyclic model works in the following way:
households provide labour
corporations provide goods and services to other corporations and to households and consume the labour provided by households.

Rules of engagement.
- Engage into discussion assuming this is a plausible scenario even if it will happen 50 or 100 years in the future.
- Imagine different scenarios on what could go wrong or how this situation could be better than our current situation ( e.g. politicians could be replaced ).
- Do not rant on how this scenario is imposible ( if I wanted to hear this , then I would have made a poll, just to know the general opinion on plausibility). Such posts will be ignored.

I think the world could be a much better place if we eliminate work. Why do we have to work? There will always be ceo's vps directors managers it guys and a few manual labor types but the workers will be there to supervisor the robots. We will be paper pushers not grunts.

It would be silly not to use a technicalogical advancement because you're worried about the workers.

We didn't worry about dish washers being out of work when we invented the dishwasher. Or we didn't worry about blacks when we invented the cotton gin. Lol

No dirty jobs on the starship enterprise, right?

Did the people on star trek get a paycheck? I suppose when they went home they had bank accounts.

Star trek depicts post-scarcity , the energy we produce in the whole planet is peanuts compared to the energy required to take a ship to Alpha Centauri .

It would be a happy coincidence that we reached automation and post-scarcity at the same time, but I don't think that will happen.

With cheap highly skilled labor all problems become more solvable.

Nuclear power plants, OTECs, SPSs, all more practical is the labor costs drops by 95%.

I would be surprised if post work did NOT lead in short order to POst scarcity.

Yes , problems would become more solvable.
With cheap labor goods and services would drop their costs to roughly by half.

The only problem is with little or no jobs , how would households get any income at all ?

It does remind me the fact that so many jobs have been lost to offshoring , sure goods are cheaper , but how good is that if you can't get a job or you can just get a very low paying job?

Wage share - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So hopefully in the future the people who struggle either have no children or one. Nothing wrong with the population shrinking, especially when we're consuming all our resources now.

What would be bad about the population being cut in half?

I don't get why you vote democrat then.

They always want to save lives and have people live longer like seat belts, helmets for motorcycles, raise taxes to try to keep people from smoking etc..etc...

Well they do kill thousands upon thousands of baby's a year, so you may have a point.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss what ammendments should be done to the capitalist system in case of an almost complete takeover by AI and robots.
I say almost complete, because there will probably be some job to be done, but just not by the 95% of the population.
Also , when I say tends to zero is because labour will still have a market value, but it will have to be competitive with robots , I will assume a do-anything robot will cost like a compact car : $10,000, will have a lifetime of 10 years and consume abuout 0.25 gge ( gas gallon equivalent per day) and require 25% of its value in maintenance. Adding it up : the market value of labour will be $4.5 per day.

Normally the cyclic model works in the following way:
households provide labour
corporations provide goods and services to other corporations and to households and consume the labour provided by households.

Rules of engagement.
- Engage into discussion assuming this is a plausible scenario even if it will happen 50 or 100 years in the future.
- Imagine different scenarios on what could go wrong or how this situation could be better than our current situation ( e.g. politicians could be replaced ).
- Do not rant on how this scenario is imposible ( if I wanted to hear this , then I would have made a poll, just to know the general opinion on plausibility). Such posts will be ignored.

OK...here are the rules

No Terminators allowed
No Robot sex
Players in the NFL will be tested to see if they are Robots

Robot sex might be one of the creepiest alternatives that come to my mind ... and that's not the future .
Really ... no, that's not a woman , it's a doll .

Wicked RealDoll - RealDoll - The World's Finest Love Doll

Dear sir, I appreciate both your post and the question you put forth. Whether you wish an answer or simply want to provoke thought about how robots will impact both our culture and our future in either case i salute your effort. Robots are a subject that I have written several articles about in the past, Below is an introduction to one of those, and at the end of that article are links to several others. This is indeed a subject we cannot sidestep. Best of luck to you.

We should all try to be grownups and face the fact that robots have uses other than moving things around the factory floor. Sex-bots could make our human spouses obsolete, someone had to say it. Robots are being looked at to fulfill a variety of needs, some of these uses are less distasteful than the killing machines the military seeks.

The integration of robots into our culture will bring about massive changes in society and could cause many people to totally rethink how the define the term "relationship". The article below titled, "Sex-bots Could Make Spouse Obsolete" explores some of the ramifications and advancements being made in related industries.

Advancing Time: Sex-bots Could Make Spouse Obsolete

That could be a posibility , but it will probably be the last role the robots will take. That would take some very serious breakthrough in AI and emotion simulation to mimic the correct emotional reaction in physical terms.
On top of that the robots would have to surpass the uncanny valley which seems to be the biggest obstacle.

Uncanny valley
"used in reference to the phenomenon whereby a computer-generated figure or humanoid robot bearing a near-identical resemblance to a human being arouses a sense of unease or revulsion in the person viewing it."

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I am really wondering how robots will reshape the cyclic economic model.
.

dear, a wheel is, in effect, a robot. Now do you understand? I pride myself on making things simple enough for even a liberal to understand.