RightWingers...If Torture Techniques Are Truly Responsible

[editec]

For getting the intelligence that led to the discovery and killing of Osama Bin Laden, then...

a.) What SPECIFIC information was it?

and

2.) WHY wasn't it done 6 or even 4 years ago?

What you people want us to buy is that somehow, some kind of VERY important information was garnered from beating the living snot out of some Muslims that is just NOW baring fruit.

Anyone who would actually believe that should have their head examined.

Can you enlighten the rest of us?

Of course you're right.

The suggestion that information garnered years and years ago was directly responsible for Osama's capture is preposterous.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

For getting the intelligence that led to the discovery and killing of Osama Bin Laden, then...

a.) What SPECIFIC information was it?

and

2.) WHY wasn't it done 6 or even 4 years ago?

What you people want us to buy is that somehow, some kind of VERY important information was garnered from beating the living snot out of some Muslims that is just NOW baring fruit.

Anyone who would actually believe that should have their head examined.

Can you enlighten the rest of us?

No one got tortured. Here, lets look at this here for a second-

As a noun-1tor·ture
noun \ˈtȯr-chər\
Definition of TORTURE
1
a : anguish of body or mind : agony b : something that causes agony or pain
2
: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3
: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument :


And as a verb- 2torture
verb
transitive verb
1
: to cause intense suffering to : torment
2
: to punish or coerce by inflicting excruciating pain

None of that took place. The bad guys were only harshly questioned, and the only thing that the CIA did differently then a local PD was waterboarding.

 

[thereisnospoon]

For getting the intelligence that led to the discovery and killing of Osama Bin Laden, then...

a.) What SPECIFIC information was it?

and

2.) WHY wasn't it done 6 or even 4 years ago?

What you people want us to buy is that somehow, some kind of VERY important information was garnered from beating the living snot out of some Muslims that is just NOW baring fruit.

Anyone who would actually believe that should have their head examined.

Can you enlighten the rest of us?

DOn't know....we weren't there. The result is OBL is shark food. So who cares.
answer to question #2 ....it was. What the hell do you think Obama was bitching about during his campaign....
Marky, this is you engaging in a troll thread. Back to your rock. You are an anti-American creep. Oh....An that would be "bearing" fruit.....Not "baring".....Jeez.

 

[Charles_Main]

The debate on the use of coherced interrogations is over. It was over long ago when Pelosi and Reid dumped all talk of going after Bush and Cheney. They didnt want to look like dumbasses............in fact, Pelosi knew the waterboarding shit was going on and didnt do dick to stop it.

Bin Laden still has his head on if not for the Bush/Cheney policies. Its not even debatable anymore.

America would have a red hot poker up its ass as we speak if the fringe left limpwristers had their way. And the funniest thing..........do these people shine or what when it comes to hipocracy? Its fcukking hysterical...........the level of fcukkedupedness in their thinking. Here a defenseless Bin Laden gets his face blown apart in cold blood and you dont hear shit from the fringe left on here but they are melting down about fcukking waterboarding!!! You cant even make this shit up.............

You say the Debate is over. Yet one of Obama's First acts as President was to ban Water boarding, and the other Methods like sleep Deprivation.

If it is true that those techniques were crucial in finding Bin Laden, and have stopped attacks as we are told. Then Maybe we need to reopen the Debate considering according to MR Obama we will not do it anymore, yet we now have evidence as to it's effectiveness.

On a side note. Why in the HELL did we not interrogate Osama? I know the Answer but I still have to ask.

 

[Jack Fate]

So.... now everyone who dies at America's hands deserves it?

Oh my how the righteous indignation went out the window on 1/20/2009.

It's pretty simple. When you hit someone you just might get hit back. Nature and common sense. I don't know what else to tell ya except being a rigid idealogue will give you headaches. You'll feel much better when you allow critical thinking to take its place.

I have no problem with it... just having a good laugh at the expense of the leftwing whackaloons that pissed and moaned so up until Obama became Pres.

Sorry, I apologize. Glad to meet ya.

 

[Charles_Main]

For getting the intelligence that led to the discovery and killing of Osama Bin Laden, then...

a.) What SPECIFIC information was it?

and

2.) WHY wasn't it done 6 or even 4 years ago?

What you people want us to buy is that somehow, some kind of VERY important information was garnered from beating the living snot out of some Muslims that is just NOW baring fruit.

Anyone who would actually believe that should have their head examined.

Can you enlighten the rest of us?

DOn't know....we weren't there. The result is OBL is shark food. So who cares.
answer to question #2 ....it was. What the hell do you think Obama was bitching about during his campaign....
Marky, this is you engaging in a troll thread. Back to your rock. You are an anti-American creep. Oh....An that would be "bearing" fruit.....Not "baring".....Jeez.

Marc is a raging Hack dude. He knows full well that the Name of the Currier that led us to Obama was obtained through Enhanced Interrogations at CIA Black Sites. He also knows Nobody "got the snot beat out of them"

Furthermore he knows that with out the Ability to Hold these people Indefinitely, and question them Repeatedly. With or With out Enhanced Techniques. That we would not have gotten the info we needed. He is just not willing to admit that If Obama had his way on these issues, that He would not have been able to get Osama.

IMO Not Even Water Boarding is Torture, and the Other methods like Sleep Deprivation, Making them stand for Hours, and Physiological stuff Like making them think we just killed another Detainee for not talking, do not even come close to torture.

On a side note, does anyone else find it funny that People Like Obama and MArc here. Claim to be Against Torture, And think our Enhanced Techniques were torture. Yet they are Perfectly ok with Shooting Osama in Cold blood even though he was unarmed?

Just saying.

 

[HUGGY]

RightWingers...If Torture Techniques Are Truly Responsible

I like how the construction of "the fortress" keeps getting pushed back from 5 years to as long as 7 years by the neo con pundits to conveniently match the time of the waterboarding. I heard this new 7 year tag on the construction from a couple of Bush's advisors on Sunday's morning "news" shows.

WOW!

Sorry chumps...The "fortress" was built 2 years after the waterboarding. No connection.

 

[Jack Fate]

RightWingers...If Torture Techniques Are Truly Responsible

I like how the construction of "the fortress" keeps getting pushed back from 5 years to as long as 7 years by the neo con pundits to conveniently match the time of the waterboarding. I heard this new 7 year tag on the construction from a couple of Bush's advisors on Sunday's morning "news" shows.

WOW!

Sorry chumps...The "fortress" was built 2 years after the waterboarding. No connection.

Then Leon Panetta is a liar and we should have a congressional investigation if the head of the CIA is lying to the American people. Agree?

 

[QUENTIN]

From the CIA:

According to the CIA, regarding the courier who led us to bin Laden:

So despite being waterboarded dozens and dozens of times in a secret prison, neither al-Libbi nor KSM revealed the name of Osama's courier... until, at least 4 years after their waterboarding stopped and they had been transferred back to American custody to be interrogated by the FBI and military interrogators explicitly NOT using harsh interrogation techniques. Then they finally gave up his real name during "normal interrogation" which allowed us in 2009 to find out where he was, this August track him down, and this weekend kill him after he led us to Osama bin Laden.

So during waterboarding? No intel used to get bin Laden.
During regular interrogation? Intel used to get bin Laden.

According to the CIA's own timeline and champion of waterboarding Donald Rumsfeld's own comments.

Can't claim this one as a victory for torture, sorry to burst your bubble.

You clearly do not understand how interrogations work. Even if the Intel given up during water boarding was not directly Related. Which I would dispute. The fact is once you break someone, and get them to give up some info, it becomes many times easier to get further info out of them.

That is interrogation 101 ask any Police Detective worth their salt. They will tell you, get someone to talk once, and you will get more out of them.

Actually, according to Matthew Alexander, the individual who has interrogated more high value detainees than anyone else in the war on terror (personally interrogated more than 300, supervised the interrogation of thousands) and was in charge of interrogations in Iraq for years who personally got the information out of a detainee that led to the highest value target in the GWOT besides bin Laden (Abu Musab al-Zarqawi), waterboarding "ruins an intel source" as it destroys any trust or relationship normal interrogation effectively builds.

That might be why it took 4 years after the waterboarding stopped before we finally got KSM and al-Libbi to give up the information they knew that finally led us to bin Laden. According to the man with more personal experience interrogating Islamist militants in the War on Terror than anyone else, who wrote the book on effective interrogation and has a ridiculous record of success, had we not waterboarded KSM and al-Libbi we likely could have extracted that information and got bin Laden far sooner than we did. He argues persuasively and constantly that torture set us back and is horribly counterproductive.

For getting the intelligence that led to the discovery and killing of Osama Bin Laden, then...

a.) What SPECIFIC information was it?

and

2.) WHY wasn't it done 6 or even 4 years ago?

What you people want us to buy is that somehow, some kind of VERY important information was garnered from beating the living snot out of some Muslims that is just NOW baring fruit.

Anyone who would actually believe that should have their head examined.

Can you enlighten the rest of us?

No one got tortured. Here, lets look at this here for a second-

As a noun-1tor·ture
noun \ˈtȯr-chər\
Definition of TORTURE
1
a : anguish of body or mind : agony b : something that causes agony or pain
2
: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3
: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument :


And as a verb- 2torture
verb
transitive verb
1
: to cause intense suffering to : torment
2
: to punish or coerce by inflicting excruciating pain

None of that took place. The bad guys were only harshly questioned, and the only thing that the CIA did differently then a local PD was waterboarding.

Definitions are very helpful. Here's the definition of waterboarding:

Waterboarding | Define Waterboarding at Dictionary.com

— n
a form of torture in which the victim is immobilized and has water poured on his or her face, producing a severe gag reflex, to simulate drowning

RightWingers...If Torture Techniques Are Truly Responsible

I like how the construction of "the fortress" keeps getting pushed back from 5 years to as long as 7 years by the neo con pundits to conveniently match the time of the waterboarding. I heard this new 7 year tag on the construction from a couple of Bush's advisors on Sunday's morning "news" shows.

WOW!

Sorry chumps...The "fortress" was built 2 years after the waterboarding. No connection.

Then Leon Panetta is a liar and we should have a congressional investigation if the head of the CIA is lying to the American people. Agree?

No, Leon Panetta just never said what torture apologists are now desperate to spin as his comments.

He first said the information came from several sources and when pushed on waterboarding admitted that KSM and al-Libbi had been waterboarded, as we all know, in 2003. But they didn't give up the name of the courier until more than 4 years after the waterboarding stopped under what Donald Rumsfeld who was directly overseeing their interrogation (and who is a big proponent of waterboarding) made explicitly clear was not waterboarding or torture/enhanced interrogation but "normal interrogation techniques."

Nice try.

I wonder if this false meme will last as long in these circles as the one about Saddam having WMD and direct ties to 9/11.

 

[Wicked Jester]

From the CIA:



So despite being waterboarded dozens and dozens of times in a secret prison, neither al-Libbi nor KSM revealed the name of Osama's courier... until, at least 4 years after their waterboarding stopped and they had been transferred back to American custody to be interrogated by the FBI and military interrogators explicitly NOT using harsh interrogation techniques. Then they finally gave up his real name during "normal interrogation" which allowed us in 2009 to find out where he was, this August track him down, and this weekend kill him after he led us to Osama bin Laden.

So during waterboarding? No intel used to get bin Laden.
During regular interrogation? Intel used to get bin Laden.

According to the CIA's own timeline and champion of waterboarding Donald Rumsfeld's own comments.

Can't claim this one as a victory for torture, sorry to burst your bubble.

You clearly do not understand how interrogations work. Even if the Intel given up during water boarding was not directly Related. Which I would dispute. The fact is once you break someone, and get them to give up some info, it becomes many times easier to get further info out of them.

That is interrogation 101 ask any Police Detective worth their salt. They will tell you, get someone to talk once, and you will get more out of them.

Actually, according to Matthew Alexander, the individual who has interrogated more high value detainees than anyone else in the war on terror (personally interrogated more than 300, supervised the interrogation of thousands) and was in charge of interrogations in Iraq for years who personally got the information out of a detainee that led to the highest value target in the GWOT besides bin Laden (Abu Musab al-Zarqawi), waterboarding "ruins an intel source" as it destroys any trust or relationship normal interrogation effectively builds.

That might be why it took 4 years after the waterboarding stopped before we finally got KSM and al-Libbi to give up the information they knew that finally led us to bin Laden. According to the man with more personal experience interrogating Islamist militants in the War on Terror than anyone else, who wrote the book on effective interrogation and has a ridiculous record of success, had we not waterboarded KSM and al-Libbi we likely could have extracted that information and got bin Laden far sooner than we did. He argues persuasively and constantly that torture set us back and is horribly counterproductive.



Definitions are very helpful. Here's the definition of waterboarding:

Waterboarding | Define Waterboarding at Dictionary.com

— n
a form of torture in which the victim is immobilized and has water poured on his or her face, producing a severe gag reflex, to simulate drowning

RightWingers...If Torture Techniques Are Truly Responsible

I like how the construction of "the fortress" keeps getting pushed back from 5 years to as long as 7 years by the neo con pundits to conveniently match the time of the waterboarding. I heard this new 7 year tag on the construction from a couple of Bush's advisors on Sunday's morning "news" shows.

WOW!

Sorry chumps...The "fortress" was built 2 years after the waterboarding. No connection.

Then Leon Panetta is a liar and we should have a congressional investigation if the head of the CIA is lying to the American people. Agree?

No, Leon Panetta just never said what torture apologists are now desperate to spin as his comments.

He first said the information came from several sources and when pushed on waterboarding admitted that KSM and al-Libbi had been waterboarded, as we all know, in 2003. But they didn't give up the name of the courier until more than 4 years after the waterboarding stopped under what Donald Rumsfeld who was directly overseeing their interrogation (and who is a big proponent of waterboarding) made explicitly clear was not waterboarding or torture/enhanced interrogation but "normal interrogation techniques."

Nice try.

I wonder if this false meme will last as long in these circles as the one about Saddam having WMD and direct ties to 9/11.

So, where is your proof that waterboarding didn't work?

You've offered up nothing to prove that it didn't work.

Panetta said that it provided info, no matter how you try to spin it.

Fact is, and this comes from two who would know, Hayden in particular the other day, that waterboarding led to the fact that bin Laden was reduced to using couriers to communicate. That then led to the main couriers nickname, that eventually led to his name and then his cell phone. That then led to tracking him directly to bin Laden. So, yes, it was waterboarding that got the ball rolling.

Man, you lib's are spinning your asses off, and miserably failing.....Just admit Obama and the rest of your loony liberal hero's were wrong yet again on ANOTHER damn issue.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It's pretty simple. When you hit someone you just might get hit back. Nature and common sense. I don't know what else to tell ya except being a rigid idealogue will give you headaches. You'll feel much better when you allow critical thinking to take its place.

I have no problem with it... just having a good laugh at the expense of the leftwing whackaloons that pissed and moaned so up until Obama became Pres.

Sorry, I apologize. Glad to meet ya.

No prob... I have no issue with what the admin did... NONE.

 

[DiamondDave]

Waterboarding = torture.

Reading your racist mantra and inane rhetoric = torture

 

[Shadow]

Now, let's recap:

Enhanced interrogation..... BAD.
Assaisination.... GOOD.

So, I guess its all gravy as long as we kill them in the process.

I disagree. I doubt they really even care that much about Enchanced interrogation techniques unless it can be used against the previous admin. If Oblah blah decided tomorrow to waterboard a detainee they would be all for it in a heartbeat. The lefts total lack of integrity has been on full display lately...to say the least.

 

[Jack Fate]

From the CIA:



So despite being waterboarded dozens and dozens of times in a secret prison, neither al-Libbi nor KSM revealed the name of Osama's courier... until, at least 4 years after their waterboarding stopped and they had been transferred back to American custody to be interrogated by the FBI and military interrogators explicitly NOT using harsh interrogation techniques. Then they finally gave up his real name during "normal interrogation" which allowed us in 2009 to find out where he was, this August track him down, and this weekend kill him after he led us to Osama bin Laden.

So during waterboarding? No intel used to get bin Laden.
During regular interrogation? Intel used to get bin Laden.

According to the CIA's own timeline and champion of waterboarding Donald Rumsfeld's own comments.

Can't claim this one as a victory for torture, sorry to burst your bubble.

You clearly do not understand how interrogations work. Even if the Intel given up during water boarding was not directly Related. Which I would dispute. The fact is once you break someone, and get them to give up some info, it becomes many times easier to get further info out of them.

That is interrogation 101 ask any Police Detective worth their salt. They will tell you, get someone to talk once, and you will get more out of them.

Actually, according to Matthew Alexander, the individual who has interrogated more high value detainees than anyone else in the war on terror (personally interrogated more than 300, supervised the interrogation of thousands) and was in charge of interrogations in Iraq for years who personally got the information out of a detainee that led to the highest value target in the GWOT besides bin Laden (Abu Musab al-Zarqawi), waterboarding "ruins an intel source" as it destroys any trust or relationship normal interrogation effectively builds.

That might be why it took 4 years after the waterboarding stopped before we finally got KSM and al-Libbi to give up the information they knew that finally led us to bin Laden. According to the man with more personal experience interrogating Islamist militants in the War on Terror than anyone else, who wrote the book on effective interrogation and has a ridiculous record of success, had we not waterboarded KSM and al-Libbi we likely could have extracted that information and got bin Laden far sooner than we did. He argues persuasively and constantly that torture set us back and is horribly counterproductive.



Definitions are very helpful. Here's the definition of waterboarding:

Waterboarding | Define Waterboarding at Dictionary.com

— n
a form of torture in which the victim is immobilized and has water poured on his or her face, producing a severe gag reflex, to simulate drowning

RightWingers...If Torture Techniques Are Truly Responsible

I like how the construction of "the fortress" keeps getting pushed back from 5 years to as long as 7 years by the neo con pundits to conveniently match the time of the waterboarding. I heard this new 7 year tag on the construction from a couple of Bush's advisors on Sunday's morning "news" shows.

WOW!

Sorry chumps...The "fortress" was built 2 years after the waterboarding. No connection.

Then Leon Panetta is a liar and we should have a congressional investigation if the head of the CIA is lying to the American people. Agree?

No, Leon Panetta just never said what torture apologists are now desperate to spin as his comments.

He first said the information came from several sources and when pushed on waterboarding admitted that KSM and al-Libbi had been waterboarded, as we all know, in 2003. But they didn't give up the name of the courier until more than 4 years after the waterboarding stopped under what Donald Rumsfeld who was directly overseeing their interrogation (and who is a big proponent of waterboarding) made explicitly clear was not waterboarding or torture/enhanced interrogation but "normal interrogation techniques."

Nice try.

I wonder if this false meme will last as long in these circles as the one about Saddam having WMD and direct ties to 9/11.

You're not gonna paint me with your brush. Waterboarding is not "torture" no matter how many times you say it and I am not a a "torture apologist". I am an American who cares about American lives and I don't give a dirty donut about how we obtain that info from a muslim murderer who has absolutely no regard for any American. Your freedoms that you cherish are under attack and all you can do is bit the hand that protects you. Sick. Far sicker than any "torture apologists".

 

[MarcATL]

Bush pussied around, talked a lot of trashed and generally botched up the entire thing almost beyond repair.

Obama came in, recognizing what needed to be done, and got it done.

And now....Bin Laden is dead.

Bottom line.

 

[R.D.]

Bush pussied around, talked a lot of trashed and generally botched up the entire thing almost beyond repair.

Obama came in, recognizing what needed to be done, and got it done.

And now....Bin Laden is dead.

Bottom line.

OK

Then why the thread? You could have just as easily posted a "I need to further kiss O's ass" thread and people would have still come.

 

[Shadow]

Obama got lucky. If GWB had not of had the foresight to put in place the policies and tools required to get the job done. Oblah blah wouldn't be "spiking that football" right about now.

 

[R.D.]

Obama got lucky. If GWB had not of had the foresight to put in place the policies and tools required to get the job done. Oblah blah wouldn't be "spiking that football" right about now.

I'll give Obama more credit than that. He did good. He used the information gathered and had the right people advising him and he made the right call.

That he talks out of both side of his mouth and liberals want to believe what he says instead of what the fact show to be is what amazes me.

 

[DiamondDave]

Bush pussied around, talked a lot of trashed and generally botched up the entire thing almost beyond repair.

Obama came in, recognizing what needed to be done, and got it done.

And now....Bin Laden is dead.

Bottom line.

And there is that inane rhetoric I spoke of... call the ACLU... I'm being tortured

 

[Shadow]

Obama got lucky. If GWB had not of had the foresight to put in place the policies and tools required to get the job done. Oblah blah wouldn't be "spiking that football" right about now.

I'll give Obama more credit than that. He did good. He used the information gathered and had the right people advising him and he made the right call.

That he talks out of both side of his mouth and liberals want to believe what he says instead of what the fact show to be is what amazes me.

I have no problem giving him credit for making a good call...but that's about all he gets. The fact that this ass is still going to go after the CIA interrogators via Holder...tells me just what a low life hypocrite he really is (not that I didn't already know that though).

Although...I'm sure the dipshit will get Holder to drop the charges...just as soon as he finds it politically beneficial for himself to do so...and not a moment before.