Right-Wing Challenge: Fair Income Tax For The Top 50% vs Bottom 50%

[struth]

So how do you think the Government should be paid for by society?

If you want no tax you are saying what is wrong with life in Mad Max..

He didn’t say govt shouldn’t tax he said govt shouldn’t tax someone’s success

We can put taxes on consumption, such as on imports, that’s primarily how we did it for most of our existence

 

[Nostra]

He didn’t say govt shouldn’t tax he said govt shouldn’t tax someone’s success

We can put taxes on consumption, such as on imports, that’s primarily how we did it for most of our existence

We didn't have debt until we got the income tax.

Weird.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Edwin,

That immigration attack you did is exactly what they want... They have people in America convinced that Mexicans are bad for US.
People who have been in US since they were a c child are now getting deported without any major conviction. They have gone through the US educational system. Parents of US Citizens are getting deported.
Let me suggest, how about temporary visas given online for seasonal farm workers, they can come and go knowing is easy to get back in next season. This is a win-win for the worker and America.

"They are robbing our Jobs.." mantra is just BS, US Citizens don't pick crops or work in meat plants...

Rubbish.

Silence in the Fields

The U.S. government is allowing farmers to fill thousands of jobs with foreign 'guestworkers.' The conditions are hardly hospitable -- but those who speak out can be sent straight back home.

www.motherjones.com

 

[GWV5903]

Here is the challenge and it is based on next year's budget.

You need to raise about $2.4T in personal income taxes just to be $2.0T short of next year's expenses (Trump's plan) in a way that allows people to also live a life.

How do you raise your $2.4T from income taxes between the two halves of earners? Bottom half and top half.

Today we get 98% from the top 50% as it is circled in red on the chart to the right but as you can see they earn almost all the income and certainly 100% of the discretionary income after you put bare bones living expenses against $23k vs 137k.

What is "fair" to you?

I predict a long line of right-wingers suggesting we take $200B from people making $23K still leaving a $1.6T deficit without regard to how one would live. But maybe they will surprise me with some thoughtful reflection on income tax burdens and living with low means.

GO!

Trump 2026 Budget
$7T in Expenses

$2.4T of Income Tax
$1.7T of Payroll Tax
$0.5T of Corporate Tax
$0.5T of Excise and Tariffs
$5.2T of Revenue

$1.8T Deficit


View attachment 1229675

How does the federal tax system affect low-income households?

taxpolicycenter.org

That you believe the Top 3 to 5 percent is equal to say 45 to 47 percent, blows a hole in your theory, rethink your argument and get back to me…

 

[jc456]

IMHO "fair" is for the higher incomes to pay a higher tax rate and for the low incomes to pay a lower tax rate.

they do that now, what is your issue that you keep going on about? it's called a progressive tax.

 

[kyzr]

what is just and fair about punishing success and stealing from one and giving to another??

True. All of the various tax deductions and government subsidies, aka "corporate welfare", are an unfair advantage to the wealthy, "stealing" from taxpayers.

 

[kyzr]

The core concept of charging people more because they can afford it is sinister as all hell on it’s face. There’s nothing fair, moral or right about that.

Another way to look at "fairness" is that the tax code favors the high incomes with all of the various tax deductions, the capital gains tax loophole, having taxpayer dollars gifted to corporations as "corporate welfare" boosting the wealthy's stock portfolio value. Whining about a tax rate after getting gifted tons of tax loopholes is disgusting.

 

[jc456]

True. All of the various tax deductions and government subsidies, aka "corporate welfare", are an unfair advantage to the wealthy, "stealing" from taxpayers.

Having said what I said in my previous post, this thread is about balancing the burden to the Poor as well. What do the poor actually sacrifice for the country?

 

[BrokeLoser]

Isn’t the “equity” found in the opportunity? Don’t we all have the same opportunity?

Another way to look at "fairness" is that the tax code favors the high incomes with all of the various tax deductions, the capital gains tax loophole

How would the tax code “favor” those who don’t pay anything or pay very little?
Further, if the tax code “favors” the wealthy why/how are they still paying the majority of the tax?

having taxpayer dollars gifted to corporations as "corporate welfare" boosting the wealthy's stock portfolio value.

“Gifted”? Do you really mean investing in job creators?

Whining about a tax rate after getting gifted tons of tax loopholes is disgusting.

Isn’t the ultimate “tax loophole” the one that allows people to make poor life choices and then not contribute? The one that allows people to get paid to run baby factories and or stay home on Tuesday smoking weed while us positive contributors bust our asses to pay their way?
The one that allows non contributors to abuse their body and run up a healthcare tab for others to pay? The one that allows societies most unproductive to use and abuse our emergency and social services?

 

[kyzr]

Having said what I said in my previous post, this thread is about balancing the burden to the Poor as well. What do the poor actually sacrifice for the country?

The bottom half of incomes sacrifices wealth and prosperity compared to the upper half of incomes, they lose buying power to inflation since they don't get home or stock portfolio wealth creation.
I feel sorry for you being envious or jealous of the low income families struggling to survive.

We can beat up the welfare cheats and the Medicaid scammers, but the working poor needs financial help.

 

[jc456]

Having said what I said in my previous post, this thread is about balancing the burden to the Poor as well. What do the poor actually sacrifice for the country?

And why do democrats give the poor a break?
They give Illegals a break,
they give criminals a break,
the only break they don't give a damn about is the hard working middle class, who the democrats shit on daily!!!

 

[jc456]

The bottom half of incomes sacrifices wealth and prosperity compared to the upper half of incomes

how is it they sacrifice wealth exactly? Explain this nonsense to us.

Are you suggesting lazy is a sacrifice?

 

[kyzr]

Isn’t the “equity” found in the opportunity? Don’t we all have the same opportunity?

No we don't. That's why we have "trust fund babies".

How would the tax code “favor” those who don’t pay anything or pay very little?
Further, if the tax code “favors” the wealthy why/how are they still paying the majority of the tax?

The tax code favors the wealthy, even though they pay the majority of the tax, because of the many tax deductions that lower their tax bill. Deducting home mortgage interest, local and state taxes, business expenses, capital gains, investment losses, college loans, and then have their stock portfolios boosted by "subsidies", which is taxpayer cash gifted to corporations, aka "corporate welfare".

“Gifted”? Do you really mean investing in job creators?

No I mean "gifted". An investment would be buying shares of stock held in a Sovereign Fund for the benefit of all taxpayers instead of a few shareholders and politicians who use insider information to get rich.

Isn’t the ultimate “tax loophole” the one that allows people to make poor life choices and then not contribute? The one that allows people to get paid to run baby factories and or stay home on Tuesday smoking weed while us positive contributors bust our asses to pay their way?
The one that allows non contributors to abuse their body and run up a healthcare tab for others to pay? The one that allows societies most unproductive to use and abuse our emergency and social services?

We can agree that welfare needs to be cut, or at the very least limited to a 2-year lifetime limit like Clinton had it.
I also want Medicaid limited or sent down to the states to deal with.

 

[kyzr]

how is it they sacrifice wealth exactly? Explain this nonsense to us.
Are you suggesting lazy is a sacrifice?

Lazy is Welfare, something for nothing, charity. We're not discussing them.
We're discussing those who are not privileged, no college, no support structure, no financial backing to start a business, just working at low skill low pay jobs. Never getting ahead, but working every day. Barely surviving, maybe with food stamps.
Not lazy, just not as fortunate as you.

 

[BothWings]

Flat Tax for EVERYONE or bugger-off.

Russia has it. I'm all for it.

 

[kyzr]

Russia has it. I'm all for it.

I could be for if if there are no tax deductions...none.

 

[citygator]

That you believe the Top 3 to 5 percent is equal to say 45 to 47 percent, blows a hole in your theory, rethink your argument and get back to me…

You make no sense. Do the math.

 

[BrokeLoser]

No we don't. That's why we have "trust fund babies".

Nobody has time to care about or talk about the .0002%
We all have the same opportunity.

The tax code favors the wealthy, even though they pay the majority of the tax, because of the many tax deductions that lower their tax bill. Deducting home mortgage interest, local and state taxes, business expenses, capital gains, investment losses, college loans, and then have their stock portfolios boosted by "subsidies", which is taxpayer cash gifted to corporations, aka "corporate welfare".

The tax code encourages folks to make good life decisions, decisions that keep the nation on the right trajectory. Again, how do you imagine tax code benefiting those who don’t pay tax?

No I mean "gifted". An investment would be buying shares of stock held in a Sovereign Fund for the benefit of all taxpayers instead of a few shareholders and politicians who use insider information to get rich.

There is no gifting…Even the “gifts” from the Kenyan were paid back…those were loans. Subsidies to job creators are public investments.

We can agree that welfare needs to be cut, or at the very least limited to a 2-year lifetime limit like Clinton had it.
I also want Medicaid limited or sent down to the states to deal with.

Maybe we should fight for that and the return of all Mexico’s people before calling to penalize our best citizens?

 

[Delldude]

Lazy is Welfare, something for nothing, charity. We're not discussing them.
We're discussing those who are not privileged, no college, no support structure, no financial backing to start a business, just working at low skill low pay jobs. Never getting ahead, but working every day. Barely surviving, maybe with food stamps.
Not lazy, just not as fortunate as you.

Many have chosen that lifestyle aided and abetted by the government.

 

[progressive hunter]

True. All of the various tax deductions and government subsidies, aka "corporate welfare", are an unfair advantage to the wealthy, "stealing" from taxpayers.

they apply to all of us,,

just because they chose to work harder isnt reason to punish them,,