Right did not move at all

[elvis]

Not really. Most economists will tell you deficit numbers would be similar, no matter whose body was filling the Suit. He really started out in the worst of circumstances.

I agree, "they" will. "They" assume you have to spend your way out of a crisis. I'm afraid of the day we all have to pay the piper.

Well it's not really an opinion, it's just the way it is. Your guys would have you believe he went on a massive spending spree, when truthfully most of the deficits were a result of economic and military situations over which he had no control.

I'm against Obama AND Bush. obama is continuing Bush's reckless spending.

 

[elvis]

Ohh come on now we all know that the entire finiancial collapse, the unemployment, etc is ALL Owebama's fault.

It's no one's fault. Glass Steagall should not have been repealed.

And no one pushed for it's repeal?

the republicans pushed for it and Clinton went along with it.

 

[Cuyo]

Not really. Most economists will tell you deficit numbers would be similar, no matter whose body was filling the Suit. He really started out in the worst of circumstances.

Ohh come on now we all know that the entire finiancial collapse, the unemployment, etc is ALL Owebama's fault.

It's no one's fault. Glass Steagall should not have been repealed.

I agree, but a big contributor it was not. Glass Steagall only applied to depository institutions, which held only a very small percentage of the bad debt (I assume that's what you're referring to). The truth is, the government should have expanded what constitutes a "Banking institution" to include "Investment Banks."

The vast majority of the bad debt was held by banks that were never subject to regulation (glass-steagall, FDIC, CRA) to begin with... Not ones that had their regulations changed or lifted.

 

[uscitizen]

I agree, "they" will. "They" assume you have to spend your way out of a crisis. I'm afraid of the day we all have to pay the piper.

Yep Bush and the republicans spent like drunken sailors trying to keep the fall from happening.

that was on Iraq. and i don't like bush either. We haven't had a conservative in office since Clinton.

The pill bill?
The income tax rebates?
TARP?
And much more.

A lot of right wingers say NOW that they do not like Bush. I say NOW that Obama is a third Bush term. That must make me a left wing hack?

 

[Gunny]

so he's Super Carter.

Not really. Most economists will tell you deficit numbers would be similar, no matter whose body was filling the Suit. He really started out in the worst of circumstances.

Ohh come on now we all know that the entire finiancial collapse, the unemployment, etc is ALL Owebama's fault.

For making things worse? Yes.

 

[elvis]

Yep Bush and the republicans spent like drunken sailors trying to keep the fall from happening.

that was on Iraq. and i don't like bush either. We haven't had a conservative in office since Clinton.

The pill bill?
The income tax rebates?
TARP?
And much more.

The banks had to be bailed out. The economy would have crumbled otherwise.

 

[uscitizen]

that was on Iraq. and i don't like bush either. We haven't had a conservative in office since Clinton.

The pill bill?
The income tax rebates?
TARP?
And much more.

The banks had to be bailed out. The economy would have crumbled otherwise.

it will anyway, this just let the finiancial industry bleed us for more.

cover the FDIC amounts and let the rest go. I always heard the big bucks were for taking risks.

Kind of like feeding your children to the lions so they won't eat you.

 

[elvis]

The pill bill?
The income tax rebates?
TARP?
And much more.

The banks had to be bailed out. The economy would have crumbled otherwise.

it will anyway, this just let the finiancial industry bleed us for more.

Assuming you're right, we still had no choice.

 

[Cuyo]

that was on Iraq. and i don't like bush either. We haven't had a conservative in office since Clinton.

The pill bill?
The income tax rebates?
TARP?
And much more.

The banks had to be bailed out. The economy would have crumbled otherwise.

I happen to agree. But for some reason I think you don't feel the same about the stimulus.

I know you already said you don't like Bush - But it was the Bush administration and Republicans that controlled the entire government for 6 of 8 years prior to the collapse, and they did nothing. They are the Hoovers of this generation. By the time they finally resolved to do something about it, faced with nearly unilateral opposition by economists and warnings of imminent collapse... it was too late.

And as much as you hate to hear that spending helps the problem, that's exactly how we got out of the Great Depression. Of course, then it was the war, and we have no big war now, but the deficits during those years were much, much higher as a percentage of GDP than they are today, and we came out stronger, followed by flourishing prosperity for decades.

 

[elvis]

The pill bill?
The income tax rebates?
TARP?
And much more.

The banks had to be bailed out. The economy would have crumbled otherwise.

I happen to agree. But for some reason I think you don't feel the same about the stimulus.

I know you already said you don't like Bush - But it was the Bush administration and Republicans that controlled the entire government for 6 of 8 years prior to the collapse, and they did nothing. They are the Hoovers of this generation. By the time they finally resolved to do something about it... it was too late.

And as much as you hate to hear that spending helps the problem, that's exactly how we got out of the Great Depression. Of course, then it was the war, and we have no big war now, but the deficits during those years were much, much higher as a percentage of GDP than they are today, and we came out stronger, followed by flourishing prosperity for decades.

I think the war got us out of the Depression, not spending. Hoover increased taxes during economic turmoil, which many on the Left are saying obama should do in the name of fairness. Now, he hasn't done that yet, so we'll see.
how long do you see these stimulus packages taking to work? and when the bill comes, what level of inflation will we have? The Phillips Curve was turned on its ear once already.

 

[uscitizen]

One thing all the experts have not yet figured out.
It is a different world now and many of the old economic theories/rules are no longer valid.

 

[Cuyo]

The banks had to be bailed out. The economy would have crumbled otherwise.

I happen to agree. But for some reason I think you don't feel the same about the stimulus.

I know you already said you don't like Bush - But it was the Bush administration and Republicans that controlled the entire government for 6 of 8 years prior to the collapse, and they did nothing. They are the Hoovers of this generation. By the time they finally resolved to do something about it... it was too late.

And as much as you hate to hear that spending helps the problem, that's exactly how we got out of the Great Depression. Of course, then it was the war, and we have no big war now, but the deficits during those years were much, much higher as a percentage of GDP than they are today, and we came out stronger, followed by flourishing prosperity for decades.

I think the war got us out of the Depression, not spending. Hoover increased taxes during economic turmoil, which many on the Left are saying obama should do in the name of fairness. Now, he hasn't done that yet, so we'll see.
how long do you see these stimulus packages taking to work? and when the bill comes, what level of inflation will we have? The Phillips Curve was turned on its ear once already.

Things improved, sluggishly and slowly, but improved, during the early New Deal era. Of course the war spending eclipsed New Deal spending, and unemployment was virtually nonexistent once WWII was underway. You're correct that Hoover tried to balance the budget, which was foolish, but he had no other speculum through which to look at the situation. Keynes' thesis was in its infancy, and the world had never seen economic woes such as these in modern history.

Suggesting Obama raise taxes now are much different than the calls then. It's not to provide economic relief, but rather to alleviate a skyrocketing deficit amid recklessly low tax rates. You hear it trumpeted over and over that raising taxes on the rich will hurt the economy, but out there in the wild where the professionals talk about it, the suggestion is not only rare, but practically nonexistent.

I think the stimulus was a fumble, while well-intentioned. It didn't put people to work quickly enough, and like most economists will tell you, it was much too small.

edit: Also, I just re-read the thread and I didn't really see you claim Obama was some kind of far-left radical. Where do you think he is on the spectrum? I find such accusations to be nothing short of absurd. He has been Mr. Compromise from the get-go.

 

[elvis]

I happen to agree. But for some reason I think you don't feel the same about the stimulus.

I know you already said you don't like Bush - But it was the Bush administration and Republicans that controlled the entire government for 6 of 8 years prior to the collapse, and they did nothing. They are the Hoovers of this generation. By the time they finally resolved to do something about it... it was too late.

And as much as you hate to hear that spending helps the problem, that's exactly how we got out of the Great Depression. Of course, then it was the war, and we have no big war now, but the deficits during those years were much, much higher as a percentage of GDP than they are today, and we came out stronger, followed by flourishing prosperity for decades.

I think the war got us out of the Depression, not spending. Hoover increased taxes during economic turmoil, which many on the Left are saying obama should do in the name of fairness. Now, he hasn't done that yet, so we'll see.
how long do you see these stimulus packages taking to work? and when the bill comes, what level of inflation will we have? The Phillips Curve was turned on its ear once already.

Things improved, sluggishly and slowly, but improved, during the early New Deal era. Of course the war spending eclipsed New Deal spending, and unemployment was virtually nonexistent once WWII was underway. You're correct that Hoover tried to balance the budget, which was foolish, but he had no other speculum through which to look at the situation. Keynes' thesis was in its infancy, and the world had never seen economic woes such as these in modern history.

Suggesting Obama raise taxes now are much different than the calls then. It's not to provide economic relief, but rather to alleviate a skyrocketing deficit amid recklessly low tax rates. You hear it trumpeted over and over that raising taxes on the rich will hurt the economy, but out there in the wild where the professionals talk about it, the suggestion is not only rare, but practically nonexistent.

I think the stimulus was a fumble, while well-intentioned. It didn't put people to work quickly enough, and like most economists will tell you, it was much too small.

edit: Also, I just re-read the thread and I didn't really see you claim Obama was some kind of far-left radical. Where do you think he is on the spectrum? I find such accusations to be nothing short of absurd. He has been Mr. Compromise from the get-go.

interesting. be back tomorrow.