Revolution!!!

[bigrebnc1775]

"No. Never thought of actual revolution over the current set of circumstances. Why? Because we are always focused on how things are so horrible today that no other time has been so bad. The fact is that this type of thinking is rather bunk. I do believe that we are headed in the complete wrong direction and that many of the problems we face could, indeed bring the country down. I don’t believe that our problems are more insurmountable than the past though. We need change and, quite frankly, change is guaranteed to happen. The question is how much pain it is going to be to get there."

An enlightened view.

Is there no room to argue that the current and projected deficits with a Congress and President who seem determined to increase them in at least the short term, a down graded credit rating, and a national debt that the current generation cannot imagine paying down coupled with a pro-world-government and an anti-American business attitude are all causes for serious alarm?

Is there no room to argue that a continued attitude of oh well, things aren't all THAT bad or we've had bad times before or we've seen it all before could generate apathy or inaction that could eventually make it impossible to reverse?

Once the government can no longer maintain those entitlement programs with the current tax system they will start doing a door to door collection, and when they can no longer achieve the amount of revenue needed people will revolt. Guess what it will not be the tea party people revolting.

 

[there4eyeM]

"Guess what it will not be the tea party people revolting."

Some might say they already are.

 

[Foxfyre]

"Guess what it will not be the tea party people revolting."

Some might say they already are.

Well we are doing our damndest while also doing our damndest to not violate anybody's unalienable rights. What do you think. Is the Tea Party more effective in its good neighbor, non violent approach to a civil uprising (for want of a better word) or are groups like union thugs, the OWS, etc. more effective in bringing about necessary change?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

bigreb is as crazy as Allie and TDM.

Jake likes to violate board rules

 

[there4eyeM]

"Uh, I'll take thugs, Bob!"

Jus' kiddin'!

We don't need another wing of the Republican Party; the Democrats are already more than enough.

 

[Cowman]

America is just like the Colonial British in the sense that we have every desire to crush revolution before it foments.

People who believe our government type stands for revolution are deluding themselves.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We had to arrest TP folks to stop them from disrupting town meetings.

I do agree that the tea party folks are not nearly as intimidating as were the far left during the 1960s and 1970s. The signs with guns and wordings saying "I am not bringing it this time" were risible.

"Guess what it will not be the tea party people revolting."

Some might say they already are.

Well we are doing our damndest while also doing our damndest to not violate anybody's unalienable rights. What do you think. Is the Tea Party more effective in its good neighbor, non violent approach to a civil uprising (for want of a better word) or are groups like union thugs, the OWS, etc. more effective in bringing about necessary change?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

America is just like the Colonial British in the sense that we have every desire to crush revolution before it foments.

People who believe our government type stands for revolution are deluding themselves.

And anyone who thinks our type of government can't give birth to tyranny is very delusional. We have started moving closer and closer every year, with new legislation voted into law in the name of protection.
And yes an elected by the people body of government can create legislation that will make a law abiding citizen a criminal
Just look at the ruling of obamatax and how it was ruled on.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Legislation requires a citizen to obey the law.

 

[sealadaigh]

REVOLUTION!!!! ​

(Disclaimer: This should not now or ever be construed that I am advocating an overthrow of our government. I would just as soon not have black helicopters hovering over the house and I don't want to wind up on the no fly list.)

But for speculation and discussion only:

From time to time in these political conversations, we have one or more members who think we are so completely screwed in this country, the only way out is to scrap the government we have, dust off the Constitution, and start over as it was in the beginning. (Hmmm, that sounds almost Biblical doesn't it?)

Thomas Jefferson is quoted as noting the possibility that such would be necessary from time to time, and the concept is also included in the opening remarks of The Declaration of Independence.:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. . . ."​

What do you think. Deep down where you keep your most heartfelt convictions, fears, and longings, do you harbor such thoughts?

i think america is too diverse and too evenly divided to have a revolution/ i think a civil war would be more likely. the seeds of revolution begins with the seeds of a common cause andd i do not see that happening.

it wouldn't surprise me though, to see the USA break apart like the soviet union and then later reform itself like the EU at some point.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Only if the overriding ideal holding the nation together, the Constitution, is not longer considered worthy enough to hold the citizens in one country.

I don't see that happening anytime soon.

REVOLUTION!!!! ​

(Disclaimer: This should not now or ever be construed that I am advocating an overthrow of our government. I would just as soon not have black helicopters hovering over the house and I don't want to wind up on the no fly list.)

But for speculation and discussion only:

From time to time in these political conversations, we have one or more members who think we are so completely screwed in this country, the only way out is to scrap the government we have, dust off the Constitution, and start over as it was in the beginning. (Hmmm, that sounds almost Biblical doesn't it?)

Thomas Jefferson is quoted as noting the possibility that such would be necessary from time to time, and the concept is also included in the opening remarks of The Declaration of Independence.:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. . . ."​

What do you think. Deep down where you keep your most heartfelt convictions, fears, and longings, do you harbor such thoughts?

i think america is too diverse and too evenly divided to have a revolution/ i think a civil war would be more likely. the seeds of revolution begins with the seeds of a common cause andd i do not see that happening.

it wouldn't surprise me though, to see the USA break apart like the soviet union and then later reform itself like the EU at some point.

 

[IGetItAlready]

"I used to trust the media to me the truth
Tell us the truth
But now I see the payoffs every I look
Who can you trust when everyone's a crook"
-Geoff Tate-Singer, song writer, (g)od

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNdOsL4Xe7Q]Queensryche - Revolution Calling - YouTube[/ame]

Can you hear it calling children?

 

[catzmeow]

What do you think. Deep down where you keep your most heartfelt convictions, fears, and longings, do you harbor such thoughts?

NO. Never.

 

[saveliberty]

Legislation requires a citizen to obey the law.

...and a politican to fight tyranny.

 

[Foxfyre]

REVOLUTION!!!! ​

(Disclaimer: This should not now or ever be construed that I am advocating an overthrow of our government. I would just as soon not have black helicopters hovering over the house and I don't want to wind up on the no fly list.)

But for speculation and discussion only:

From time to time in these political conversations, we have one or more members who think we are so completely screwed in this country, the only way out is to scrap the government we have, dust off the Constitution, and start over as it was in the beginning. (Hmmm, that sounds almost Biblical doesn't it?)

Thomas Jefferson is quoted as noting the possibility that such would be necessary from time to time, and the concept is also included in the opening remarks of The Declaration of Independence.:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. . . ."​

What do you think. Deep down where you keep your most heartfelt convictions, fears, and longings, do you harbor such thoughts?

i think america is too diverse and too evenly divided to have a revolution/ i think a civil war would be more likely. the seeds of revolution begins with the seeds of a common cause andd i do not see that happening.

it wouldn't surprise me though, to see the USA break apart like the soviet union and then later reform itself like the EU at some point.

Yes, that could very well eventually happen if we continue to not educate our young people coming up in the real history of their country, teach them the concepts the Founders used to write the Constitution, and continue to look to other nations as the way things should be rather than celebrate American exceptionalism.

Those thinking 'revolution' are rarely advocating any form of violence. But I think they know that if we continue to look to government as our savior and the fountain of all resources, we will lose our American exceptionalism and all the freedoms that it has afforded us.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Foxfyre, please define your concept of American exceptionalism. For me only, it is found in the American people when they live up to the ideals of the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. When we don't, I have found we are not really different than any other people anywhere.

 

[Foxfyre]

American exceptionalism is the concept that humankind are born with rights given by God, not government. Government cannot confer rights, but can only deny them to people. America is unique among all nations on Earth and that have ever existed in a concept of a government given authority by the people and charged to recognize and protect unalienable rights and then leave the people alone to govern themselves.

It produced the most free, most productive, most innovative, most creative, most generous people on Earth.

In every other nation, the government assigns the rights the people will have and can just as easily revoke them.

Some Americans seem hell bent on giving our government that same authority and thereby destroying American exceptionalism. In my opinion we are very close to that happening. We already have a government that is no longer limited to what the Constitution allows but is limited only by what the Constitutional expressly forbids.

In my opinion, revolution is necessary to fully restore the intent of the Constitution and American exceptionalism.

 

[Montrovant]

American exceptionalism is the concept that humankind are born with rights given by God, not government. Government cannot confer rights, but can only deny them to people. America is unique among all nations on Earth and that have ever existed in a concept of a government given authority by the people and charged to recognize and protect unalienable rights and then leave the people alone to govern themselves.

It produced the most free, most productive, most innovative, most creative, most generous people on Earth.

In every other nation, the government assigns the rights the people will have and can just as easily revoke them.

Some Americans seem hell bent on giving our government that same authority and thereby destroying American exceptionalism. In my opinion we are very close to that happening. We already have a government that is no longer limited to what the Constitution allows but is limited only by what the Constitutional expressly forbids.

In my opinion, revolution is necessary to fully restore the intent of the Constitution and American exceptionalism.

Isn't that, to an extent, just a matter of semantics, though? There's no reason our government can't restrict or remove rights, if the people back it. We can always put new amendments into the constitution, and if the people and politicians all agreed to it, we could revoke almost any right currently granted. Free speech, freedom to assemble, bearing arms.....could not an amendment be added removing these rights? I'm not saying it's even vaguely likely, just that it seems our system was set up so that the possibility is there without having to completely change.

As far as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.....those can be somewhat vague and have never been absolute. And the government has always retained the right to take them away from you depending on circumstance (i.e. criminals).

So, if our rights are god-given and unalienable, then other governments do not grant those same rights, they simply claim the ability to restrict or remove them. Our system is different in saying the rights come from god, perhaps (although wouldn't a theocracy say the same thing? ), but in practical terms just how much difference does that make?

 

[Foxfyre]

American exceptionalism is the concept that humankind are born with rights given by God, not government. Government cannot confer rights, but can only deny them to people. America is unique among all nations on Earth and that have ever existed in a concept of a government given authority by the people and charged to recognize and protect unalienable rights and then leave the people alone to govern themselves.

It produced the most free, most productive, most innovative, most creative, most generous people on Earth.

In every other nation, the government assigns the rights the people will have and can just as easily revoke them.

Some Americans seem hell bent on giving our government that same authority and thereby destroying American exceptionalism. In my opinion we are very close to that happening. We already have a government that is no longer limited to what the Constitution allows but is limited only by what the Constitutional expressly forbids.

In my opinion, revolution is necessary to fully restore the intent of the Constitution and American exceptionalism.

Isn't that, to an extent, just a matter of semantics, though? There's no reason our government can't restrict or remove rights, if the people back it. We can always put new amendments into the constitution, and if the people and politicians all agreed to it, we could revoke almost any right currently granted. Free speech, freedom to assemble, bearing arms.....could not an amendment be added removing these rights? I'm not saying it's even vaguely likely, just that it seems our system was set up so that the possibility is there without having to completely change.

As far as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.....those can be somewhat vague and have never been absolute. And the government has always retained the right to take them away from you depending on circumstance (i.e. criminals).

So, if our rights are god-given and unalienable, then other governments do not grant those same rights, they simply claim the ability to restrict or remove them. Our system is different in saying the rights come from god, perhaps (although wouldn't a theocracy say the same thing? ), but in practical terms just how much difference does that make?

No it is not a matter of semantics. The Founders set up the Constitution so that government could not take away our rights. Of course we can relinquish or give up our rights, but it has to be by amendment. The federal government cannot amend the Constitution without consent of the people.

The problem comes, however, in politicians who interpret the Constitution as limited only by what the Constitution expressly forbids. This is 180 opposite of the Founders intent that the Federal government can do only that which the Constitution allows.

A revolution, if it is to restore American exceptionalism, will correct that wrong interpretation.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Foxfyre, your wrong impressions concern the amendment process and the role of SCOTUS in Article III.

There will be no revolution along the lines you desire. The population is younger, darker, looking forward to the remainder of the century not back to the last one, and the wonders of their world.