I find it amusing- and totally predictable- that the OP didn't even realize that and just predicted the sky was falling because of 'taxes'!you can't give people a will do to more.
I would imagine it would be testing the viability of a basic living stipend. I'm not sure how much can be determined with such a small scale test, but maybe those who are running the program are hoping the residents will use it to help improve their lives, which in the end could be good for the economy.
long ago i found much value in the "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach him to fish, he eats for life" mantra and it's so very true. give people what they need their desire to do it themselves will go down.
It may not work at all, but since it's apparently being funded privately, I don't think it's a big deal if the people involved want to try.
Residents of California set to get monthly $500 stipend
- Thread starter MindWars
- Start date
As do I, which is why I desire the release of their raw data. In fact that would be a requirement of my participation. But, it is an interesting experiment if done correctly. Time will tell if they do it right.
jknowgood
Diamond Member
Nothing, someone said Alaska does the same I just said how it is paid for.
tyroneweaver
Diamond Member
Is this the same state that took 400,000 acres of farmland out of production over some creature called a snail darter
JimBowie1958
Old Fogey
- Sep 25, 2011
- 63,590
- 16,895
- 2,220
This is not how a Universal Income is supposed to work, but leave it to Kalipornica to **** it all up.
JimBowie1958
Old Fogey
- Sep 25, 2011
- 63,590
- 16,895
- 2,220
I dont think that even covers the average nose candy allotment.
gallantwarrior
Gold Member
It is considered that the citizens of Alaska own the resources of the state, i.e: oil, in this case. The APFD is that portion of oil dividends that belong to each individual, minus the state's portion for administering the Fund and a specified amount designated to secure the corpus of the fund. Unfortunately, the last couple of years, our legislature has decided that they need that money more than the owners (citizens), or at least they know better how to spend the dividend monies, and have begun stealing it from the citizen/owners in order to expend those funds on government projects...lots and lots of stupid, wasteful, government programs.
gallantwarrior
Gold Member
The APFD is not some dumb-assed social experiment. Also, each and every Alaskan resident is eligible, regardless of age or income status. Generally, if you qualify as a resident of the state for a minimum of one year, you are probably qualified to receive your portion of the Dividend. As might be expected, there is a huge amount of cheating and lying involved, sadly.
Intolerant
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2012
- 4,947
- 1,856
- 2,085
They may be well intentioned, but they are truly ignorant. No better way to destroy an individual than to take away their ambition and motivation to live a productive life. They will be a fine example to their children in how to succeed and thrive.
MarathonMike
Diamond Member
They must be already getting assistance otherwise they would not be able to live in Cali. I assumed (maybe wrongly) the experiment is to see what poor people do when presented with a bonus of 500 a month for 18 months. What do they do with this new wealth? Invest it? Save it? Pay off debts? Blow it?
I would imagine it would be testing the viability of a basic living stipend. I'm not sure how much can be determined with such a small scale test, but maybe those who are running the program are hoping the residents will use it to help improve their lives, which in the end could be good for the economy.
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
- 113,046
- 53,553
- 2,290
Venezuela has a Universal Basic Income...sadly, it is zero dollars..... as Tucker Carlson points out, socialism is so great they can't even get toilet paper there...
Shame.....Alaska has been doing it for years for all of their residents.
No wonder all of the kids raised in Alaska have no ambition....
Remodeling Maidiac
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #33
Free money will result in higher prices for everything because it will devalue wages & currency
georgephillip
Diamond Member
Basic Income could be paid for with QE going to productive citizens instead of Wall Street parasites (like Trump)
Ellen Brown: “How to Fund a Universal Basic Income Without Increasing Taxes or Inflation” | Basic Income News
"Writing for Common Dreams, Ellen Brown makes a case for how Universal Basic Income can be achieved without increasing Taxes or Inflation.
"At first glance, most will consider this not to be possible, but Ellen argues that through quantitative easing, in which money flows directly into the real economy instead of being put into banks, the opposite may turn out to be true.
"In line with her reasoning, the author quotes Nobel prize-winning economist, Joseph Stiglitz:
"'When the government spends more and invests in the economy, that money circulates, and recirculates again and again. So not only does it create jobs once: the investment creates jobs multiple times.'"
Done properly, UBI could give all citizens, regardless of how many jobs they want to work, enough money to survive without have to resort to food stamps, General Relief or any other form of welfare currently in use.
EverCurious
Gold Member
You folks who think that the Alaska PFD (Permanent Fund Dividend) is a form of universal basic income are educated by propaganda and too lazy to look up what it is...
We Alaskan's in general do not trust the government because we were abused and mistreated by the US government at large for over a century when we were a territory, thus when it came time for us to become a state we decided, unlike other states, we the people, not the government, owned the land; to include all its natural resources. For example, on state owned land, like Hatcher's Pass, if you find gold small scale prospecting it's yours free and clear - other states govs would say it belongs to them and is thus subject to seizure and taxation. Alaska doesn't like taxes - note we have zero state tax (and we've never have had one), we also limit state-wide that 7% is the absolute max that a city can charge in muni sales tax, there are also many places that have zero property tax. As a whole, over the entire state we pay in $1.32 billion in all taxes (that includes everything from local muni sales tax to local gas tax,) which is roughly $1.8K per person - we get that essentially "refunded" to us by the PFD which allots "we Alaskan's" 25% of oil revenue. The payout varies dependent on the price of oil, how much the oil companies take out on leased fields, etc. but in general every year 11% of the annual profits are sent out to Alaskan's; the lowest amount paid to individual Alaskan's was $300, the highest $3,300.
Of course, Alaskan's are now facing the sad reality of what happens when you trust the government - and the gov is now throwing us out of our own ******* PFD - wanting to change the constitution no less - just so they can get their greedy, filthy, fingers into money we Alaskan's PFD (formed to set aside money for our grandchildren, and great-grandchildren's, and great-great-grandchildren's, etc. future) The bastards have taken over OUR PFD and actively steal from the savings account for their personal interests.
NEVER trust the government folks, NEVER. They will stab you in the back the very second they face any kind of hardship - aka cutting their spending. They are deal breakers and untrustworthy at heart. NEVER give them more money, no matter what they say they're going to use it for - they are wasting it and squandering it guaranteed 100%. NEVER entrust them to care for your money (savings/investments/etc) they will steal it the moment times get rough, the second their budgets get tight...
We Alaskan's in general do not trust the government because we were abused and mistreated by the US government at large for over a century when we were a territory, thus when it came time for us to become a state we decided, unlike other states, we the people, not the government, owned the land; to include all its natural resources. For example, on state owned land, like Hatcher's Pass, if you find gold small scale prospecting it's yours free and clear - other states govs would say it belongs to them and is thus subject to seizure and taxation. Alaska doesn't like taxes - note we have zero state tax (and we've never have had one), we also limit state-wide that 7% is the absolute max that a city can charge in muni sales tax, there are also many places that have zero property tax. As a whole, over the entire state we pay in $1.32 billion in all taxes (that includes everything from local muni sales tax to local gas tax,) which is roughly $1.8K per person - we get that essentially "refunded" to us by the PFD which allots "we Alaskan's" 25% of oil revenue. The payout varies dependent on the price of oil, how much the oil companies take out on leased fields, etc. but in general every year 11% of the annual profits are sent out to Alaskan's; the lowest amount paid to individual Alaskan's was $300, the highest $3,300.
Of course, Alaskan's are now facing the sad reality of what happens when you trust the government - and the gov is now throwing us out of our own ******* PFD - wanting to change the constitution no less - just so they can get their greedy, filthy, fingers into money we Alaskan's PFD (formed to set aside money for our grandchildren, and great-grandchildren's, and great-great-grandchildren's, etc. future) The bastards have taken over OUR PFD and actively steal from the savings account for their personal interests.
NEVER trust the government folks, NEVER. They will stab you in the back the very second they face any kind of hardship - aka cutting their spending. They are deal breakers and untrustworthy at heart. NEVER give them more money, no matter what they say they're going to use it for - they are wasting it and squandering it guaranteed 100%. NEVER entrust them to care for your money (savings/investments/etc) they will steal it the moment times get rough, the second their budgets get tight...
Last edited:
Montrovant
Fuzzy bears!
Didn't the Fund start 20 years or so after Alaska became a state?
The PDF isn't a basic income stipend, but it is 'free' money provided to all residents. I think that was the comparison being made.
EverCurious
Gold Member
Didn't the Fund start 20 years or so after Alaska became a state?
The PDF isn't a basic income stipend, but it is 'free' money provided to all residents. I think that was the comparison being made.
Yes and no, it started when they found oil on state land in 1965 - that was about 10 years after we became a state, but our statehood was denied for decades and decades because of ******* partisan politics.
The PFD was intended to be a savings and investment account of Alaskan's. It's like saying that the annual, taxable, returns on a 401k are "universal basic income" [or "welfare" because we all know where this "test" is actually going don't we?]
EverCurious
Gold Member
Nothing new, it's literally an 18th century idea... Was tried in the uhm 70s, Canada I believe (Fair warning, my memory is seriously on the fritz since vacation here, sorry) The results were meh and never really studied at the conclusion of the test - basically the test just died, along with the entire idea, until fairly recently; maybe the late 90s when Europe picked up the idea again and started to run with it. I hear Sweden has ... four (maybe it was seven) pilot tests for it going since uhm 2014 maybe.
gallantwarrior
Gold Member
DING-DING-DING!!! You hit that on the head, EC! Our legislature is a big bunch of thieves, liars, and cheats, aka: politicians. And a BIG difference between the APFD and this CA social experiment is where the money comes from. The APFD represents each resident's share of an income source. The CA experiment (at this time) relies on charity. One assumes that if deemed "successful", the CA experiment will then become dependent on government funding.
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