Rescuing Ty Cobb....

[PoliticalChic]

....from the internet....or from Oliver Stone, Comedy Central, or government school...or from Liberalism in general.


Of course it's easy to accept the gossip, the slanders: one simply sits and nods, absorbs the repetitions.....but that's indoctrination....so very many have been trained to allow others to do their thinking for them.

It's what allows the dominant political group to pass off lies about opponents.



"..... Cobb has been portrayed as a virtual psychotic in articles, books, and films, including Ron Shelton’s 1994 feature starring Tommy Lee Jones and Ken Burns’s epic, 18-hour documentary, Baseball, in which Cobb plays the villain to Jackie Robinson’s hero.

There’s only one problem: this venomous character is predominantly fictional." A Wronged Man



There is a lesson here that goes well beyond the destruction of a single individual's reputation, and extends to the way far too many of us get our information.
Best is to remember the insightful words of the finest President of the last 100 years:

"Trust, but verify."







1. Case in point.....Ty Cobb, "....one of the greatest baseball players of all time and king of the so-called Deadball Era. He played in the major leagues—mostly for the Detroit Tigers but a bit for the Philadelphia Athletics—from 1905 to 1928, and was the first player ever voted into the Hall of Fame.

His lifetime batting average of .366 is amazing, and has never been equaled." Who Was Ty Cobb? The History We Know That’s Wrong


a. "In 1936 Cobb received the most votes of any player on the inauguralBaseball Hall of Fame ballot, .... In 1999,editorsatThe Sporting Newsranked Ty Cobb 3rd on their list of "Baseball's 100 Greatest Players".[1]

... credited with setting 90 MLB records during his career.[2][3][4][5]He still holds several records as of the end of the 2014 season, including the highestcareerbatting average(.366 or .367, depending on source) and most careerbatting titleswith 11 (or 12, depending on source).[6]

....and themodern recordfor most careerstolen bases(892) until 1977.[12]He still holds the career record for stealing home (54 times) and for stealing second base, third base, and home in succession (5 times), and as the youngest player ever to compile 4,000 hits and score 2,000 runs." Ty Cobb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


b. "But for all that, most Americans think of him first as an awful person—a racist and a low-down cheat who thought nothing of injuring his fellow players just to gain another base or score a run. Indeed, many think of him as a murderer. "
Who Was Ty Cobb? The History We Know That’s Wrong




Here's where most people's knowledge of Cobb comes from:
2. In the mid-90s, Hollywood made a film about this baseball immortal:

"Al Stump is a famous sports-writer chosen by Ty Cobb to co-write his official, authorized 'autobiography' before his death. Cobb, widely feared and despised, feels misunderstood and wants to set the record straight about 'the greatest ball-player ever,' in his words.

However, when Stump spends time with Cobb, interviewing him and beginning to write, he realizes that the general public opinion is largely correct. In Stump's presence, Cobb is angry, violent, racist, misogynistic, and incorrigibly abusive to everyone around him. Torn between printing the truth by plumbing the depths of Cobb's dark soul and grim childhood, and succumbing to Cobb's pressure for a whitewash of his character and a simple baseball tale of his greatness, Stump writes two different books. One book is for Cobb, the other for the public."
Cobb (1994) - IMDb


a. And this: " Ron Shelton, the director of the 1995 movieCobb, starring Tommy Lee Jones in the title role, [reported that] it was “well known” that Cobb had killed “as many as” three people." Who Was Ty Cobb? The History We Know That’s Wrong


b. "Cobb himself wrote shortly before his death, "In legend I am a sadistic, slashing, swashbuckling despot who waged war in the guise of sport." Schwartz, Larry."He was a pain ... but a great pain". ESPN.




'Say it ain't so!'
It ain't.


This is a cautionary tale.

I'll reveal the truth, and you can see the same process in operation, lies accepted as truth, throughout our society.

 

[Nosmo King]

While Cobb was one of the all time greatest baseball players as his record bears out, that alone does not make him a great human being. Cobb himself admitted that he should have made more friends. Cobb's racism was inexcusable, even for his time. Who among his contemporaries mourned him dead? Who attended his funeral? And why is this the second thread I've counted in an attempt to burnish his image?

 

[PoliticalChic]

While Cobb was one of the all time greatest baseball players as his record bears out, that alone does not make him a great human being. Cobb himself admitted that he should have made more friends. Cobb's racism was inexcusable, even for his time. Who among his contemporaries mourned him dead? Who attended his funeral? And why is this the second thread I've counted in an attempt to burnish his image?

I hope you have the time and interest to stay tuned....

....you will find that you have been totally mislead.

Nothing you believe about Cobb is true.



And....I hope you will apply that lesson to other worldviews that you hold most closely.

 

[strollingbones]

he was a hell of a player.....

Five myths about Ty Cobb - Detroit Athletic Co. Blog

perhaps just the white wash done by history....hell look a the legend of john wayne...who in reality was a big ass pussy

 

[strollingbones]

TheDeadballEra.com :: Bad To The Bone: Ty Cobb

 

[strollingbones]

baseball was much wilder then......ty cobb used no steroids...

 

[Alex.]

Ty Cobb Philanthropist


"Interestingly, long after he retired from baseball, he established a private foundation (PF) to which he dedicated much of his time and resources in the last decade of his life. His PF endures as a lasting legacy and, over the last 60 years, has awarded more than $15 million in non-athletic scholarships to thousands of Georgia residents. How this dichotomy came about is instructive to estate-planning advisors.


Cobb’s first foray into significant philanthropy was in 1945 when he funded a hospital in his parents’ memory. For two years, he visited numerous hospitals before donating $100,000 to establish a 25-bed hospital in his hometown of Royston, Ga.

Cobb’s PF reflects two of his values. As someone who never attended college, he valued education. His father was a high school principal who wanted Cobb to attend college. Unfortunately, Cobb’s mother accidentally killed his father shortly before Cobb was called up by the Detroit Tigers, so his father never saw Cobb reach success. Cobb once commented that he thought baseball players should complete college before turning professional, and education was a value he impressed on his children. His son, Ty Jr., attended Princeton and Yale."

Cobb also wanted recipients to demonstrate a determination to succeed. For this reason, the scholarships were (and still are) awarded only to students who prove themselves by completing 30 semester hours with a 3.0 grade point average or better."

Ty Cobb: An Unlikely Philanthropist

Look beyond the popular stories there are gems to find out about the people we are interested in.

 

[PoliticalChic]

3. "Cobb himself wrote shortly before his death, "In legend I am a sadistic, slashing, swashbuckling despot who waged war in the guise of sport." Schwartz, Larry."He was a pain ... but a great pain". ESPN.


That statement requires a careful reading, and an attention to detail.




"It is easy to understand why this is the prevailing view. People have been told that Cobb was a bad man over and over, all of their lives. The repetition felt like evidence."
This explanation of the Cobb statement was written by Charles Leerhsen, whose recent book, is about Cobb..."Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty."


a. The Boston Globe notes:

"But if veteran sportswriter Leerhsen is correct about Cobb — and his book is assiduously researched and his points lucidly expressed — then “A Terrible Beauty” is not only the best work ever written on this American sports legend: It’s a major reconsideration of a reputation unfairly maligned for decades." Review of “Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty” by Charles Leerhsen - The Boston Globe


".... assiduously researched....a reputation unfairly maligned..."


I'll provide some of that research.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Let's start at the beginning.....the origin of the personal destruction of Cobb.....

4. " It started soon after Cobb’s death in 1961, with the publication of an article by a man named Al Stump, one of several articles and books he would write about Cobb.

.... Stump claimed that when children wrote to Cobb asking for an autographed picture, he steamed the stamps off the return envelopes and never wrote back.

...baseball historian Timothy Gay wrote (implausibly, if you think about it) that Cobb would pistol-whip any black person he saw on the sidewalk.

And then there were the stories about how Cobb sharpened his spikes: before every game,

In the 1989 filmField of Dreams, Shoeless Joe Jackson says that Cobb wasn’t invited to the ghostly cornfield reunion of old-time ballplayers because “No one liked that son of a bitch.” The line always gets a knowing laugh."
Imprimis, Op. Cit.




And, sure enough, several of these lies have been repeated by the mislead, earlier in this thread.




Hence.....the 'common knowledge' about Cobb.


Leerhsen continues: " But when I started in on the nuts-and-bolts research with original sources—the kind of shoe-leather reporting I had learned working atNewsweekin its heyday—it didn’t even take me ten minutes to find something that brought me up short....

.... searching old issues of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.I quickly came across a curious article written in late 1911, after the baseball season had ended, when Cobb was touring in a three-act comedy called The College Widow.

(In those days, ballplayers ... often capitalized on their fame by appearing in plays or vaudeville.) The writer of the article was recounting a backstage visit with Cobb, and described him as a man who very much wanted to please the audience. Cobb was also going out of his way to accommodate the interviewer (who was asking tedious questions) while simultaneously being hospitable to a second guest—a catcher he had played with in the minor leagues—who showed up in the small dressing room smoking a cigar. "


The episode doesn't seem to fit with “No one liked that son of a bitch.”




"...he was just doing what any decent person would do—being as polite as possible...."
Ibid.

Could it be that the other allegations are equally false?
Could be.
Coming right up.....

 

[PoliticalChic]

he was a hell of a player.....

Five myths about Ty Cobb - Detroit Athletic Co. Blog

perhaps just the white wash done by history....hell look a the legend of john wayne...who in reality was a big ass pussy

Excellent article.....certainly runs counter to the myths.

 

[PoliticalChic]

5. "....I found many more stories contradicting the myth.
Was he widely hated? An old newspaper clipping reported that the Chicago White Sox gave Cobb an award—remarkably, a set of books; Cobb was known as a voracious reader of history—for being Chicago’s most popular visiting player. And it turns out that when the Detroit Tigers were in town, Ring Lardner, Chicago’s smartest and best sportswriter, bought cheap seats in the outfield so he could spend the game bantering with Cobb.

Did he steal stamps from children? Letters in museums and private collections make abundantly clear that Cobb responded to his young fans, sometimes with handwritten letters that ran to five pages. And he always told them he was honored by their autograph requests.



6. What of the stories about him sharpening his spikes and injuring opposing players? “It was no fun putting the ball on Cobb when he came slashing into the plate,” said Wally Schang, who caught for almost every American League Club. “But he never cut me up. He was too pretty a slider to hurt anyone who put the ball on him right.”

Infielder Germany Schaefer, a teammate of Cobb, called him “a game square fellow who never cut a man with his spikes intentionally in his life, and anyone who gets by with his spikes knows it.”

There is a famous photograph that is often used to indict Cobb. It shows Cobb and St. Louis Browns catcher Paul Krichell in 1912. Cobb appears to be flying foot-first into Krichell’s crotch while the catcher squints in pained anticipation. But there is a 1950s interview with Krichell, then a scout for the Yankees, and by his own testimony, Cobb was aiming his foot at the ball in Krichell’s glove, and succeeded in knocking it to the backstop.

Here is Krichell’s account: “The ball hit the grandstand on the fly. I was mad and stunned. Cobb was mad and shaken. In a way it was really my fault. I was standing in front of the plate, instead of on the side, where I could tag Ty as he slid in. But out of that mix-up I learned one thing: never stand directly in front of the plate when Cobb was roaring for home.



.... The legend of “the man who sharpened his spikes” had been around since at least the 1880s, and had been attributed to many, including John McGraw. ....Many of the quotes I found from opposing players defending Cobb’s style were in response to charges that he was a spiker. To a man, they said he wasn’t. And in 1910, Cobb wrote to the American League president asking that players be forced todull their spikes so that he might be free of the dirty-player charge." Who Was Ty Cobb? The History We Know That’s Wrong



Any other material that destroys those slanders of Cobb?

Yup.

 

[PoliticalChic]

While Cobb was one of the all time greatest baseball players as his record bears out, that alone does not make him a great human being. Cobb himself admitted that he should have made more friends. Cobb's racism was inexcusable, even for his time. Who among his contemporaries mourned him dead? Who attended his funeral? And why is this the second thread I've counted in an attempt to burnish his image?

"Cobb's racism was inexcusable, even for his time. "

Really?

Now, that particular slander that seems to appeal to Liberal sensibilities.....



7. What about race? It is “common knowledge” that Cobb was “an avowed racist”—but when and where did he make such a vow and where is it recorded? A 1984 biography of Cobb, written by a [Ohio University history] college professor named Charles Alexander, is typical. It describes three people who fought with Cobb—a night watchman, a bellhop, and a butcher—as being black.

Such evidence was enough for documentary filmmaker Ken Burns, whose made-for-PBS series Baseball described Cobb as an embarrassment to the game because of his racism and cast Cobb as the anti-Jackie Robinson.

But Burns, like so many others, was letting himself be misled by the oft-repeated myth.




[Better get your apology ready......]

Looking into census reports, birth certificates, and contemporary newspaper accounts, I found that all three of the black fighters cited by Charles Alexander were in fact white. "

[But..but.....Ohio College History Professor Charles Alexander, claimed they were black??? The same professor who wrote a book on the KKK...from a Liberal college....hmmm.]


When I asked Alexander about this, he simply replied, “I went with the best information I had at the time.”
Who Was Ty Cobb? The History We Know That’s Wrong

 

[PoliticalChic]

Let's really hammer home (pun intended, baseball, and all....) some more nails in the coffin of that myth:

8. But what about Cobb’s 19th-century Southern roots? How could someone born in Georgia in 1886notbe a racist? What I found—and again, not because I am the Babe Ruth of researchers, but because I actually did some research—is that Ty Cobb was descended from a long line of abolitionists. His great-grandfather was a minister who preached against slavery and was run out of town for it. His grandfather refused to fight in the Confederate army because of the slavery issue. And his father was an educator and state senator who spoke up for his black constituents and is known to have once broken up a lynch mob.

Cobb himself was never asked about segregation until 1952, when the Texas League was integrating, andSporting Newsasked him what he thought. “The Negro should be accepted wholeheartedly, and not grudgingly,” he said. “The Negro has the right to play professional baseball and whose [sic] to say he has not?”

By that time he had attended many Negro league games, sometimes throwing out the first ball and often sitting in the dugout with the players. He is quoted as saying that Willie Mays was the only modern-day player he’d pay to see and that Roy Campanella was the ballplayer that reminded him most of himself." Who Was Ty Cobb? The History We Know That’s Wrong


Wow!

Any want to dispute that author's research???

Anyone?

Reminds one of the 'racists' mythology academia and the media use to portray the Rightwing.

In both cases, the reality is very different from the myth, and the Hollywood version of 'truth,' huh?




So.... "Cobb's racism was inexcusable, even for his time. "....better wipe that egg off your face.

 

[Nosmo King]

Yeah. He was a saint.

Centennial anniversary: Ty Cobb beats up a cripple

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yeah. He was a saint.

Centennial anniversary: Ty Cobb beats up a cripple

Wait....is this your attempt to run from "Cobb's racism was inexcusable, even for his time. "????


And that 'cripple' thing....?
Leerhsen covered that as well:
"And yes, he once went into the stands and repeatedly punched a man who had been heckling him for more than a year, and who turned out to have less than the full complement of fingers—hence the story of him attacking a handicapped fan."



But you certainly have retreated from the very worst slander in our times, calling the man a bigot racist.
Excellent.

 

[Nosmo King]

Yeah. He was a saint.

Centennial anniversary: Ty Cobb beats up a cripple

Wait....is this your attempt to run from "Cobb's racism was inexcusable, even for his time. "????


And that 'cripple' thing....?
Leerhsen covered that as well:
"And yes, he once went into the stands and repeatedly punched a man who had been heckling him for more than a year, and who turned out to have less than the full complement of fingers—hence the story of him attacking a handicapped fan."



But you certainly have retreated from the very worst slander in our times, calling the man a bigot racist.
Excellent.

Why are you so bent on burnishing the image of Ty Cobb? And why has the overtly racist shootspeeders done the same?

Why give credibility to villains like Cobb?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yeah. He was a saint.

Centennial anniversary: Ty Cobb beats up a cripple

Wait....is this your attempt to run from "Cobb's racism was inexcusable, even for his time. "????


And that 'cripple' thing....?
Leerhsen covered that as well:
"And yes, he once went into the stands and repeatedly punched a man who had been heckling him for more than a year, and who turned out to have less than the full complement of fingers—hence the story of him attacking a handicapped fan."



But you certainly have retreated from the very worst slander in our times, calling the man a bigot racist.
Excellent.

Why are you so bent on burnishing the image of Ty Cobb? And why has the overtly racist shootspeeders done the same?

Why give credibility to villains like Cobb?

1. You are doing a masterful job of racing (pun intended) away from your earlier inflamed post claiming Cobb to be a racist.
The attempt, while not admitting same, does not speak well for you.

2. I accept responsibility for what I post, not what you claim is agreement with any other poster. It comes across as one more low level attempt at changing the subject.

3. "Why are you so bent on burnishing the image of Ty Cobb?"
You misunderstand....and this is why you should read the entire thread....
I am using the Cobb revelations as a vehicle to explain why so many accept the propaganda of the Left....
...you should recognize that it is in Media for that reason.

4. "Why give credibility to villains like Cobb?"
This sentence alone speaks to your lack of ability to learn.
You must be a Liberal, huh?

5. As you have evinced the need to be spoon fed.....conservatives, Republicans, rightwingers of every type, need the same sort of recasting as Ty Cobb does....and for the very same reasons.

Again....the media and most organs for the dissemination of information are wholly owned subsidiaries of Liberalism, Inc.
And the result is clear.

 

[strollingbones]

i dont think anyone is trying to negate the fact that ty cobb was a sob ...yet if you do look at it from the social perspectives of his times....he was not that far from the norm just able to act out more than the norm....

 

[Nosmo King]

Why do "conservatives, Republicans, right wingers of every type, need the same sort of recasting as Ty Cobb does....and for the very same reasons".?

Conservatives, Republicans and Right Wingers often do socially offensive things and then seek someone willing to burnish their image?

Why not just do the right thing from the start? Or is it acceptable, mature behavior to argue with waitresses, bell hops, cabbies and others as Cobb did to the day he died?

Is social cruelty part and parcel of the Conservative psyche? It certainly seems so.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why do "conservatives, Republicans, right wingers of every type, need the same sort of recasting as Ty Cobb does....and for the very same reasons".?

Conservatives, Republicans and Right Wingers often do socially offensive things and then seek someone willing to burnish their image?

Why not just do the right thing from the start? Or is it acceptable, mature behavior to argue with waitresses, bell hops, cabbies and others as Cobb did to the day he died?

Is social cruelty part and parcel of the Conservative psyche? It certainly seems so.

"Why do "conservatives, Republicans, right wingers of every type, need the same sort of recasting as Ty Cobb does....and for the very same reasons".?

Because you've been taught...and, largely, accepted lies.


Here are just a few.....


1. The 'Greatest Lie"is the one that the modern Liberals tell. They claim that those called Liberals today are the liberals who founded this great nation. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Founders were 'classical liberals,' whose vision included . individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government. That's why they wrote out a detailed Constitution.

a. Communist John Dewey, the one who corrupted education in this country,convinced the Socialist Party to change its name to 'Liberal.'And it's values and doctrines formed those called Liberals today.


The benefit to them, of course, is that the uninformed attribute the greatness of the Founders, of America, to them.



2. The "Second Greatest Lie" is also designed to benefit Leftists. It is that the political spectrum has communists on the left, and the Nazis on the right.It is a conscious and carefully crafted lie. And it is because the Left controls the schools and the media that it has been allowed to survive.

This is what a careful study of history shows:
When the worldwide recession, known as the Great Depression, caused many to believe that capitalism had failed,big government command and control economies took control, promising solutions.

The economic plans of Mussolini, Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Franklin Roosevelt were all variations on the same theme.




3. Some of the Left's lies are so transparent that it is hard to imagine any but the most committed simpletons believing them.
Yet they do....or claim they do.

Like this: "Well...yeah, everyone knows that early Democrats were the party of slavers...but then...around the 1960s the two parties flip-flopped their positions on slavery, segregation and black people....and it is the Republicans who decided to become the racists!!!

Yup.....that's it!"

(I left out all the 'duh's' that would be appropriate for said dialogue.)




Welcome to the club, Ty Cobb.