Republicans Spit on the Constitution

[Kevin_Kennedy]

How the **** is listening to everyone phone calls, emails and credit card purchases tied to "National Security"????????????

They think if they say "terrorists" enough times we won't notice that it has nothing to do with actual terrorism.

I dunno, terrorism and cyber attacks are the only form of warfare left to those who would attack us in the nuclear/information age.

And this amendment wouldn't have stopped the NSA from going after alleged terrorists. It simply would have stopped them from indiscriminately collecting all the communications data on millions of Americans in bulk.

 

[NightFox]

How the **** is listening to everyone phone calls, emails and credit card purchases tied to "National Security"????????????

One might speculate that Uncle Sam views the citizenry as a whole with suspicion, one might even go a bit further down that path and suppose that in certain corridors of power in Washington the citizenry is looked upon as "the enemy".

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

 

[Publius1787]

They think if they say "terrorists" enough times we won't notice that it has nothing to do with actual terrorism.

I dunno, terrorism and cyber attacks are the only form of warfare left to those who would attack us in the nuclear/information age.

And this amendment wouldn't have stopped the NSA from going after alleged terrorists. It simply would have stopped them from indiscriminately collecting all the communications data on millions of Americans in bulk.

Which grants them 90% of the information necessary to draw a pattern of activity against a threat that would have otherwise been lost, and thereby, enabling them to follow leads that would have otherwise been lost. I don't like it either. I can see this leaking into our political system where those in power will be spying on those out of power as to prevent the political process from taking place. So whats the alternative?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I dunno, terrorism and cyber attacks are the only form of warfare left to those who would attack us in the nuclear/information age.

And this amendment wouldn't have stopped the NSA from going after alleged terrorists. It simply would have stopped them from indiscriminately collecting all the communications data on millions of Americans in bulk.

Which grants them 90% of the information necessary to draw a pattern of activity against a threat that would have otherwise been lost, and thereby, enabling them to follow leads that would have otherwise been lost. I don't like it either. I can see this leaking into our political system where those in power will be spying on those out of power as to prevent the political process from taking place. So whats the alternative?

Nonsense, and purely speculation on your part. There's no way they can even sift through the data that they collect. They merely collect it and then if it turns out to be useful later then they can use it against that person.

The alternative is following the Constitution and not spying indiscriminately on millions of Americans.

 

[Publius1787]

And this amendment wouldn't have stopped the NSA from going after alleged terrorists. It simply would have stopped them from indiscriminately collecting all the communications data on millions of Americans in bulk.

Which grants them 90% of the information necessary to draw a pattern of activity against a threat that would have otherwise been lost, and thereby, enabling them to follow leads that would have otherwise been lost. I don't like it either. I can see this leaking into our political system where those in power will be spying on those out of power as to prevent the political process from taking place. So whats the alternative?

Nonsense, and purely speculation on your part. There's no way they can even sift through the data that they collect. They merely collect it and then if it turns out to be useful later then they can use it against that person.

The alternative is following the Constitution and not spying indiscriminately on millions of Americans.

A phone number is a phone number. A digital ID is a digital ID. Not to hard to electronically sift that out of the pile. From there it becomes all to easy to pull a string and see where it leads. Why collect on such a scale if you cant use the data?

 

[Crackerjaxon]

134 House Republicans spit on the Constitution and voted with Obama's Police State and NSA Spying.

All 134 must be primaried out of office -- every one. I cannot imagine a clearer, brighter line than the one that protects citizens from a Tyrannical government that the one enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

Now is the time

House passes defense spending bill, rejects effort to cut off NSA surveillance program | Fox News

As the world gets smaller national defense and geopolitics moves closer to home. Indeed, I believe this to be unconstitutional, but I suppose the ACLU is currently working the courts with that? The problem is that every other country is jumping off of this bridge and for us to wait would put us as the last ones to hit the ground. To not have this program is to grant it exclusively to our enemies and fall behind.

Fall behind in what, mass suppression of the populace?

 

[NYcarbineer]

lol, some of us haven't forgotten when guys like the OP liked to rant about the 'pre-9/11 mentality' when they were defending all of the security measures taken.

I guess they're now in the post January 2009 mentality.

 

[Publius1787]

134 House Republicans spit on the Constitution and voted with Obama's Police State and NSA Spying.

All 134 must be primaried out of office -- every one. I cannot imagine a clearer, brighter line than the one that protects citizens from a Tyrannical government that the one enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

Now is the time

House passes defense spending bill, rejects effort to cut off NSA surveillance program | Fox News

As the world gets smaller national defense and geopolitics moves closer to home. Indeed, I believe this to be unconstitutional, but I suppose the ACLU is currently working the courts with that? The problem is that every other country is jumping off of this bridge and for us to wait would put us as the last ones to hit the ground. To not have this program is to grant it exclusively to our enemies and fall behind.

Fall behind in what, mass suppression of the populace?

The battlefield and the manner it is fought on is determined by the most extreme player on the battlefield. The United States is and has mostly always been reactionary in that regard. That is to say, reacting to offset the threat. Currently I think we can safely assume that our civilian, business, and government entities are being spied upon by foreign countries. Likewise terrorism is the method of choice of those who wish to harm us; realizing that conventional techniques in the modern age are obsolete for both world powers and not. The battlefield of today/tomorrow is likely taking place on the cyber & terrorism battlefield. Certainly our enemies are doing it. It should come as no surprise that our government is looking to counter the threat. Nor is it likely they want to fall behind the cyber/technological abilities of that threat. Indeed, they are going where the threat is. That should come as no surprise. For the same reason the wild west was a violent and lawless place/time in history, as is the digital age. To not put in measures to counter the threat is to give our enemies freedom of maneuver. That is not up for debate. The only question is how can we restrict their freedom of maneuver while maximizing our individual liberty? Indeed, individual liberty demands that there be an order that recognizes it as the pinnacle of modern law with the means to defend it. It's defense is continuously being challenged in the cyber world and on the terror front, and thus, we find government there as well.

 

[Oddball]

By that standard the only choice for President in 2012 was Romney.

That asshole supported NDAA.

The only choice was Ron Paul.

Love Libertarians, hate their foreign policy. You find me a libertarian who is a geopolitical realist and I will show you the next President of the United States.

Thank you, Woodrow Wilson.

 

[g5000]

134 House Republicans spit on the Constitution and voted with Obama's Police State and NSA Spying.

It is interesting you failed to point out 83 Democrats joined in the spitting on the Constitution.

 

[Pete7469]

It's not clear and it's not bright and it's not a line. The NSA spying is a complicated issue tied to National Security and a simple amendment to an appropriations bill isn't going to fix poor leadership from the administration.

How the **** is listening to everyone phone calls, emails and credit card purchases tied to "National Security"????????????

How could they possibly listen to everyones phone calls, read all the emails and have someone tracking every purchase?

It would take all of the people in China to monitor all the communication that goes on in the US, let alone the rest of the world. Even with some serious filters I can't imagine the man hours involved with listening to or reading all that information.

Not that I'm arguing against you in principle. It's wrong, they should have warrants, but just think of the logistics involved here.

 

[Oddball]

134 House Republicans spit on the Constitution and voted with Obama's Police State and NSA Spying.

It is interesting you failed to point out 83 Democrats joined in the spitting on the Constitution.

That's to be expected.

 

[g5000]

Y'll need to understand the difference between a "pen register" and "listening in on your phone calls".

A pen register records the numbers called from a phone line. It does not record the conversations. All this "metadata" you have been hearing about is like placing a pen register on every phone in America. Then the NSA sees what phones are talking to each other. Those phones which call suspected terrorists' phone numbers then pop up on the NSA's radar for further examination.

In order to actually listen to your phone conversations, the Supreme Court determined in Katz v. United States that the cops have to get a warrant.

To place a pen register on your phone, the cops do NOT have to get a warrant, according to the Supreme Court's Smith v. Maryland decision.

In 1986, Congress passed the Electronics Privacy Communication Act which requires law enforcement to get an ex parte order from a judge to place a pen register on a phone.


With the advent of the internet, law enforcement wanted to be able to do with people's internet communications what they were doing with phone pen registers. This was added to a long wish list. When 9/11 happened, law enforcement (not letting a good crisis go to waste) added all their wish list items into what became the USA Patriot Act of 2001.

If you read Section 216 of the Patriot Act, you find "pen registers" are extended to electronic communication, such as the internet.


As I said, this was part of a long list of expanded powers desired by law enforcment. It is important to understand they wanted these extra powers long before 9/11.

The significance of that is that these tools are not just intended for the War on Terra™. These are intended for all future law enforcement activity.

Politicians who attempt to assuage you that this is just for catching terrorists are either incredibly stupid, or evil.

And remember, kids, there's a reason we have a Fourth Amendment. Our founders knew firsthand that tyrants have this really nasty habit of finding what they are looking for. So the "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" pacifier for the rubes is completely bogus.

 

[Dot Com]

Not to mention MORE money, that we don't have, thrown into the *cough* "intelligence" community's black budget. defense contractors

 

[TemplarKormac]

Just goes to show you, when you are in any position of power in Washington, you may as well sell your soul to the devil.

 

[OKTexas]

Here is a by state and name list of how the reps voted for you that are interested.

Amash Amendment On NSA Data Collection: House Roll Call Vote

 

[PaulS1950]

So, how many of you keep records, as I do, of these enemies of our freedoms?

It will be hard to remember who has a good record and who does not when election time comes around.

 

[g5000]

So, how many of you keep records, as I do, of these enemies of our freedoms?

It will be hard to remember who has a good record and who does not when election time comes around.

I know my Congressman voted the right way for the Amash amendment, but he also votes the wrong way on other issues and supports a lot of policies I detest, like ObamaCare.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So, how many of you keep records, as I do, of these enemies of our freedoms?

It will be hard to remember who has a good record and who does not when election time comes around.

In in NY my congressweasel won't appear in public to answer questions

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[TemplarKormac]

But then again, this is why I left the Republican party. Nobody gives a damn.