Republicans should propose to phase out SS and replace it with this proven plan.

[Nostra]

Since you didn't say how you would fund my SS, every retiree wants answer to your scheme that is 50 years old.

I put forth my idea earlier in the thread how we would transition from the SS Ponzi scheme to this much better system.

I suggest you read the thread, starting with the OP, Simp

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I put forth my idea earlier in the thread how we would transition from the SS Ponzi scheme to this much better system.

I suggest you read the thread, starting with the OP, Simp

I read the thread. Surely you can explain it. I saw nothing regarding a transition, especiallinyour OP.

 

[Nostra]

I read the thread. Surely you can explain it. I saw nothing regarding a transition, especiallinyour OP.

Then you didn’t read the thread. Try again, Simp.

Still waiting for you to explain why the system in the OP is “hare brained”.

 

[WorldWatcher]

After reading the OP’s article (which I read before, and just re-read). I’ll say – in general principle – I could be on board with such a plan, with reservations.

#1 Term Life Insurance
The article isn’t clear if this is a term policy only in effect while the while the person is working or if it persists into retirement. The language is not clear. Is the base x4 times annual, or is that an accidental death/dismemberment clause. Right now my employer pays for Term Life paying x2 Annual Base + 2x for accidental death/dismemberment. I contribute a few bucks a month that raises it to x4 Annual Base. However once I retire and I’m no longer working, that term policy ends.

#2 Benefit Type
The opinion piece also isn’t clear on whether this is a “Defined Benefit” (DB) plan or a “Defined Contribution” plan. An important distinction. If DB, then at retirement the employee will draw the same benefit for the rest of their life regardless of market performance. Or is this a DC plan similar to a 401K where (a) benefit amounts can change depending on market valuation, and (b) and as a DC plan if the benefit computation are based on actuary tables so that benefit checks pay not only interest but part of the principle. If the plan is drawing interest and principle to pay benefits, how long are the planned years of benefits? What happens for people that live beyond the actuary tables if their individual account is fully depleted?

#3 Beneficiaries
The opinion piece make no mention of death. What happens to funds upon death of the pensioner? Are the funds “owned” by the pensioner and can be passed to any beneficiary? What happens to a married couple if the beneficiary dies, does the spouse continue to receive benefits as part of the plan for the remainder (or until plan depletion, see #2)? If survivor benefits are part of the plan, does the pensioner and spouse have to enroll and fund deductions for survivor benefits? (I’m a military retiree, and I pay a premium every month so that my spouse will continue to receive 55% of my benefit if I pass first. My current employer pension plan also has similar survivor benefits, but again that will be a premium (based on how much of a percentage is covered) will be deducted from my pension check if we opt for it.)

#4 Market Driven or Insured Outcomes
Are there protection in the plans so that if the market takes a downturn right before someone is scheduled to retire, or if they are in retirement that specific guaranteed outcomes are part of the plan even if the market tanks. Or do seniors have to guess from year to year on what their benefits will be.

#5 Fixed or Flexible Income
Are benefits fixed? Or are there COLA provisions to account for inflation over retirement years. If not, then as prices go up will seniors have to take more and more out of their accounts to make ends meet? Thereby depleting funds faster for a DC plan.

#6 Guarantees
Since these are individual retirement accounts and NOT a bank account, they don’t have guarantees like bank accounts under FDIC. Will there be backing of the plans to provide these government back guarantees?

#7 Transition
And this will be the hardest part. What would the transition plan be? I can see – on a national scale – that it would take literally generations to transition starting with new workers entering the market. The older you get the less impact the magic of market increases and compound re-investment have. So during the transition years those that have been in the jobs will stop paying into SS and start paying into the individual plan. That takes money out of SS funding, how will that money be replaced, from the General Fund as the government assumes total liability for SS since there would be no new SS revenue to pay existing and future benefits?

Just some thoughts. The plan COULD work, but it would be very painful for 40-60 years.

WW

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

After reading the OP’s article (which I read before, and just re-read). I’ll say – in general principle – I could be on board with such a plan, with reservations.

#1 Term Life Insurance
The article isn’t clear if this is a term policy only in effect while the while the person is working or if it persists into retirement. The language is not clear. Is the base x4 times annual, or is that an accidental death/dismemberment clause. Right now my employer pays for Term Life paying x2 Annual Base + 2x for accidental death/dismemberment. I contribute a few bucks a month that raises it to x4 Annual Base. However once I retire and I’m no longer working, that term policy ends.

#2 Benefit Type
The opinion piece also isn’t clear on whether this is a “Defined Benefit” (DB) plan or a “Defined Contribution” plan. An important distinction. If DB, then at retirement the employee will draw the same benefit for the rest of their life regardless of market performance. Or is this a DC plan similar to a 401K where (a) benefit amounts can change depending on market valuation, and (b) and as a DC plan if the benefit computation are based on actuary tables so that benefit checks pay not only interest but part of the principle. If the plan is drawing interest and principle to pay benefits, how long are the planned years of benefits? What happens for people that live beyond the actuary tables if their individual account is fully depleted?

#3 Beneficiaries
The opinion piece make no mention of death. What happens to funds upon death of the pensioner? Are the funds “owned” by the pensioner and can be passed to any beneficiary? What happens to a married couple if the beneficiary dies, does the spouse continue to receive benefits as part of the plan for the remainder (or until plan depletion, see #2)? If survivor benefits are part of the plan, does the pensioner and spouse have to enroll and fund deductions for survivor benefits? (I’m a military retiree, and I pay a premium every month so that my spouse will continue to receive 55% of my benefit if I pass first. My current employer pension plan also has similar survivor benefits, but again that will be a premium (based on how much of a percentage is covered) will be deducted from my pension check if we opt for it.)

#4 Market Driven or Insured Outcomes
Are there protection in the plans so that if the market takes a downturn right before someone is scheduled to retire, or if they are in retirement that specific guaranteed outcomes are part of the plan even if the market tanks. Or do seniors have to guess from year to year on what their benefits will be.

#5 Fixed or Flexible Income
Are benefits fixed? Or are there COLA provisions to account for inflation over retirement years. If not, then as prices go up will seniors have to take more and more out of their accounts to make ends meet? Thereby depleting funds faster for a DC plan.

#6 Guarantees
Since these are individual retirement accounts and NOT a bank account, they don’t have guarantees like bank accounts under FDIC. Will there be backing of the plans to provide these government back guarantees?

#7 Transition
And this will be the hardest part. What would the transition plan be? I can see – on a national scale – that it would take literally generations to transition starting with new workers entering the market. The older you get the less impact the magic of market increases and compound re-investment have. So during the transition years those that have been in the jobs will stop paying into SS and start paying into the individual plan. That takes money out of SS funding, how will that money be replaced, from the General Fund as the government assumes total liability for SS since there would be no new SS revenue to pay existing and future benefits?

Just some thoughts. The plan COULD work, but it would be very painful for 40-60 years.

WW

That is why it will never work not be adopted.

 

[Nostra]

That is why it will never work not be adopted.

Worked GREAT for those on the program, Simp.

Now explain why it would never work, AND explain why you call. It a “hare brained’ idea.

Why can’t you back up your claims, Simp?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Worked GREAT for those on the program, Simp.

Now explain why it would never work, AND explain why you call. It a “hare brained’ idea.

Why can’t you back up your claims, Simp?

Yeah, it worked in 1970s, when those people were not paying into SS in the first place.

I don't know why you call people "Simp". Is it a reflex? You are far closer to a simpleton that most.

I called it a hare-brained idea repeatedly because you show no method to fund those already on or fast approaching SS. Surely you can give me your post number where you explained this. If you cannot, that just proves you never posted anything about it.

I should not have to read 146 posts again only to find you lied.

 

[Nostra]

Yeah, it worked in 1970s, when those people were not paying into SS in the first place.

I don't know why you call people "Simp". Is it a reflex? You are far closer to a simpleton that most.

I called it a hare-brained idea repeatedly because you show no method to fund those already on or fast approaching SS. Surely you can give me your post number where you explained this. If you cannot, that just proves you never posted anything about it.

I should not have to read 146 posts again only to find you lied.

You obviously didn’t read the info in the OP. Go get educated.

And I have a post outlining a plan to fund you decrepit old folks. Go get educated.

You are one of the dumbest posters in this board, and that’s saying something, Dumbass.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You obviously didn’t read the info in the OP. Go get educated.

And I have a post outlining a plan to fund you decrepit old folks. Go get educated.

You are one of the dumbest posters in this board, and that’s saying something, Dumbass.

What post number you lying sack of shit?

Why are you putting on a show so everyone can see a true asshole and moron up close and personal?

 

[Nostra]

What post number you lying sack of shit?

Why are you putting on a show so everyone can see a true asshole and moron up close and personal?

Your laziness isn’t my problem, Simp.

You claimed you read the thread. you obviously lied.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Your laziness isn’t my problem, Simp.

You claimed you read the thread. you obviously lied.

No, there is one lying sack of shit in this conversation and its you MF!

You should be able to give me the post number if it is so easy to find. I think you are simply lying through your teeth.

 

[Nostra]

No, there is one lying sack of shit in this conversation and its you MF!

You should be able to give me the post number if it is so easy to find. I think you are simply lying through your teeth.

Fuck you, you lazy asshat.

Read the thread. Your laziness isn't my problem, it's yours.

Still waiting for you to give us details on why the plan in the OP is 'hare brained". Why can't you back up your claim, Simp?

 

[Nostra]

No, there is one lying sack of shit in this conversation and its you MF!

You should be able to give me the post number if it is so easy to find. I think you are simply lying through your teeth.

Good Lord you fucking moron, I just spent 1 minute going thru the thread to find my post, and YOU fucking responded to it.

Grow a brain you blithering idiot.