Republicans are ignorant about the most basic FACTS about welfare in this country

[RKMBrown]

Your argument is incomplete without talking about how the government is able to lower taxes.

Taxes are by definition the cost part of the equation. I am not aware of anyone that is arguing otherwise but you seem to think pointing this out is somehow important.

What you seem intent on ignoring is whether or not you are advocating for shifting the cost away from taxation to debt or you are suggesting that we simply cut spending. Without considering those things you really don't establish whether the economy would grow or not.

In the case of debt spending I think there are a fair number of economists that would agree that debt spending during a down period is a good idea. They may not all agree that tax cuts are the best choice but your argument doesn't logically preclude that option.

In the case of spending cuts there is rather clear evidence that spending cuts during a down period hurt economic growth. In the long term and with regards to spending cuts in good times the result depends on the spending in question.

If there is some other option I missed then talk about it.

The part you missed is 1) spending cuts are obvious 2) we are in a permanent state of shit based on to much government spending 3) bankrupcies are not the end of the world 4) it's time to bankrupt the failures (including failed government programs) and move on. Your fear of worsening the economic downturn by suddenly using common sense on spending is FUD.

Government spending cuts will hurt the economy in the short run. Especially during a recession. Austerity has only slowed our current recovery.

Depending on what is cut it may or may not hurt the economy in the long run. I think there is plenty of reason to believe we can cut defense spending for example. The military certainly thinks so.

The argument presented did not specify any position on spending cuts. I am not aware of anyone advocating specific spending cuts. Probably because it is easier to blindly assume that the cut makes sense than being specific.

Make up your mind, are we in recovery or recession. You can't have both.

Yes we could cancel the wars on fear uncertainty and dbout and non-prescription drugs and save a ton of money.

How can you "not be aware of anyone advocating specific spending cuts?" Maybe if you pull your head out of the sand?

 

[Bombur]

The part you missed is 1) spending cuts are obvious 2) we are in a permanent state of shit based on to much government spending 3) bankrupcies are not the end of the world 4) it's time to bankrupt the failures (including failed government programs) and move on. Your fear of worsening the economic downturn by suddenly using common sense on spending is FUD.

Government spending cuts will hurt the economy in the short run. Especially during a recession. Austerity has only slowed our current recovery.

Depending on what is cut it may or may not hurt the economy in the long run. I think there is plenty of reason to believe we can cut defense spending for example. The military certainly thinks so.

The argument presented did not specify any position on spending cuts. I am not aware of anyone advocating specific spending cuts. Probably because it is easier to blindly assume that the cut makes sense than being specific.

Make up your mind, are we in recovery or recession. You can't have both.

Yes we could cancel the wars on fear uncertainty and dbout and non-prescription drugs and save a ton of money.

How can you "not be aware of anyone advocating specific spending cuts?" Maybe if you pull your head out of the sand?

You are right I should have said during and right after a recession. I hope you were not that confused.

There person I was responding to didn't even suggest cuts let alone a specific one.

I have no problem with proposing to end wars but wars are by definition issues of national security and the choice to end the war is based on those concerns.

I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to non-prescription drugs.

 

[RKMBrown]

Government spending cuts will hurt the economy in the short run. Especially during a recession. Austerity has only slowed our current recovery.

Depending on what is cut it may or may not hurt the economy in the long run. I think there is plenty of reason to believe we can cut defense spending for example. The military certainly thinks so.

The argument presented did not specify any position on spending cuts. I am not aware of anyone advocating specific spending cuts. Probably because it is easier to blindly assume that the cut makes sense than being specific.

Make up your mind, are we in recovery or recession. You can't have both.

Yes we could cancel the wars on fear uncertainty and dbout and non-prescription drugs and save a ton of money.

How can you "not be aware of anyone advocating specific spending cuts?" Maybe if you pull your head out of the sand?

You are right I should have said during and right after a recession. I hope you were not that confused.

There person I was responding to didn't even suggest cuts let alone a specific one.

I have no problem with proposing to end wars but wars are by definition issues of national security and the choice to end the war is based on those concerns.

I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to non-prescription drugs.

The war on drugs is a war on non-prescription drugs. If you want or need a particular type of drug you have to buy the prescription brand, you can't make it yourself unless the government has given you a license to manufacture.

The war on terror, is by definition a war on that which we fear. The war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror, etc.. have absolutely nothing to do with national security. They are, by contrast, exercises in forcing American based morals around the planet. One ex-CIA operative (OBL) flies two planes into two buildings. Instead of just putting locks on pilot cabins ($200/plane) we go on an endless crusade against islam and enact a police state at home.

Your attempt to "deflect" the OP to republican guilt in identifying spending cuts is dully noted.

 

[Bombur]

Make up your mind, are we in recovery or recession. You can't have both.

Yes we could cancel the wars on fear uncertainty and dbout and non-prescription drugs and save a ton of money.

How can you "not be aware of anyone advocating specific spending cuts?" Maybe if you pull your head out of the sand?

You are right I should have said during and right after a recession. I hope you were not that confused.

There person I was responding to didn't even suggest cuts let alone a specific one.

I have no problem with proposing to end wars but wars are by definition issues of national security and the choice to end the war is based on those concerns.

I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to non-prescription drugs.

The war on drugs is a war on non-prescription drugs. If you want or need a particular type of drug you have to buy the prescription brand, you can't make it yourself unless the government has given you a license to manufacture.

The war on terror, is by definition a war on that which we fear. The war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror, etc.. have absolutely nothing to do with national security. They are, by contrast, exercises in forcing American based morals around the planet. One ex-CIA operative (OBL) flies two planes into two buildings. Instead of just putting locks on pilot cabins ($200/plane) we go on an endless crusade against islam and enact a police state at home.

Your attempt to "deflect" the OP to republican guilt in identifying spending cuts is dully noted.

Wait are you complaining about the fact some drugs are illegal or that we have patent rights?

If you want to try and convince people to stop the war on drugs knock yourself out. I think you have a decent shot with pot. Seems inevitable. Everything else not so much.

If you want to try and convince people that the war with Afghanistan was not needed then knock yourself out.

None of those arguments are really all that relevant to the initial argument though.

 

[RKMBrown]

You are right I should have said during and right after a recession. I hope you were not that confused.

There person I was responding to didn't even suggest cuts let alone a specific one.

I have no problem with proposing to end wars but wars are by definition issues of national security and the choice to end the war is based on those concerns.

I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to non-prescription drugs.

The war on drugs is a war on non-prescription drugs. If you want or need a particular type of drug you have to buy the prescription brand, you can't make it yourself unless the government has given you a license to manufacture.

The war on terror, is by definition a war on that which we fear. The war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror, etc.. have absolutely nothing to do with national security. They are, by contrast, exercises in forcing American based morals around the planet. One ex-CIA operative (OBL) flies two planes into two buildings. Instead of just putting locks on pilot cabins ($200/plane) we go on an endless crusade against islam and enact a police state at home.

Your attempt to "deflect" the OP to republican guilt in identifying spending cuts is dully noted.

Wait are you complaining about the fact some drugs are illegal or that we have patent rights?

If you want to try and convince people to stop the war on drugs knock yourself out. I think you have a decent shot with pot. Seems inevitable. Everything else not so much.

If you want to try and convince people that the war with Afghanistan was not needed then knock yourself out.

None of those arguments are really all that relevant to the initial argument though.

Of course they aren't. You were the one deflecting from tax cuts to spending cuts.

 

[Bombur]

The war on drugs is a war on non-prescription drugs. If you want or need a particular type of drug you have to buy the prescription brand, you can't make it yourself unless the government has given you a license to manufacture.

The war on terror, is by definition a war on that which we fear. The war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror, etc.. have absolutely nothing to do with national security. They are, by contrast, exercises in forcing American based morals around the planet. One ex-CIA operative (OBL) flies two planes into two buildings. Instead of just putting locks on pilot cabins ($200/plane) we go on an endless crusade against islam and enact a police state at home.

Your attempt to "deflect" the OP to republican guilt in identifying spending cuts is dully noted.

Wait are you complaining about the fact some drugs are illegal or that we have patent rights?

If you want to try and convince people to stop the war on drugs knock yourself out. I think you have a decent shot with pot. Seems inevitable. Everything else not so much.

If you want to try and convince people that the war with Afghanistan was not needed then knock yourself out.

None of those arguments are really all that relevant to the initial argument though.

Of course they aren't. You were the one deflecting from tax cuts to spending cuts.

It is not deflection to point out that tax cuts don't happen in a vacuum.

Hope this helps.

 

[P@triot]

The real problem here is that you morons are so clueless about the topic that you can only repeat talking points and when pressed on any issue you have to resort to deflection and stupidity. I was better off just laughing at stupidity.

There's an old saying [MENTION=46834]Bombur[/MENTION]: "if everyone in the room is an asshole, it's probably you".

Likewise, if everyone in a thread is a "moron" and "clueless" it's definitely you.

You're getting your own ass fed to you over and over and over. And since you have no leg to stand on. You accuse EVERYONE of being a "moron".

You're not some enlightened entity chief. The reason you're all alone is because you're A.) completely ignorant of the topic and B.) on the wrong side of the facts.

 

[Bombur]

The real problem here is that you morons are so clueless about the topic that you can only repeat talking points and when pressed on any issue you have to resort to deflection and stupidity. I was better off just laughing at stupidity.

There's an old saying [MENTION=46834]Bombur[/MENTION]: "if everyone in the room is an asshole, it's probably you".

Likewise, if everyone in a thread is a "moron" and "clueless" it's definitely you.

You're getting your own ass fed to you over and over and over. And since you have no leg to stand on. You accuse EVERYONE of being a "moron".

You're not some enlightened entity chief. The reason you're all alone is because you're A.) completely ignorant of the topic and B.) on the wrong side of the facts.

So what you are saying is that you live your life in an echo chamber of your own stupidity.

This is not news to me. I could already tell.

 

[P@triot]

The real problem here is that you morons are so clueless about the topic that you can only repeat talking points and when pressed on any issue you have to resort to deflection and stupidity. I was better off just laughing at stupidity.

There's an old saying [MENTION=46834]Bombur[/MENTION]: "if everyone in the room is an asshole, it's probably you".

Likewise, if everyone in a thread is a "moron" and "clueless" it's definitely you.

You're getting your own ass fed to you over and over and over. And since you have no leg to stand on. You accuse EVERYONE of being a "moron".

You're not some enlightened entity chief. The reason you're all alone is because you're A.) completely ignorant of the topic and B.) on the wrong side of the facts.

So what you are saying is that you live your life in an echo chamber of your own stupidity.

This is not news to me. I could already tell.

See what I mean? If everyone in the room is an asshole Bombur, it's probably you...

The fact that you think you've got it all figured out and the rest of the world is just "stupid" is comical. You're on the wrong side of the facts chief and you're ego won't allow you to admit it.

 

[Bombur]

There's an old saying [MENTION=46834]Bombur[/MENTION]: "if everyone in the room is an asshole, it's probably you".

Likewise, if everyone in a thread is a "moron" and "clueless" it's definitely you.

You're getting your own ass fed to you over and over and over. And since you have no leg to stand on. You accuse EVERYONE of being a "moron".

You're not some enlightened entity chief. The reason you're all alone is because you're A.) completely ignorant of the topic and B.) on the wrong side of the facts.

So what you are saying is that you live your life in an echo chamber of your own stupidity.

This is not news to me. I could already tell.

See what I mean? If everyone in the room is an asshole Bombur, it's probably you...

The fact that you think you've got it all figured out and the rest of the world is just "stupid" is comical. You're on the wrong side of the facts chief and you're ego won't allow you to admit it.

Once again you are all bark and no bite.

This thread is not the rest of the world.

You can't even pretend to create an argument because you are just a lil puppy yapping away.

 

[P@triot]

So what you are saying is that you live your life in an echo chamber of your own stupidity.

This is not news to me. I could already tell.

See what I mean? If everyone in the room is an asshole Bombur, it's probably you...

The fact that you think you've got it all figured out and the rest of the world is just "stupid" is comical. You're on the wrong side of the facts chief and you're ego won't allow you to admit it.

Once again you are all bark and no bite.

This thread is not the rest of the world.

You can't even pretend to create an argument because you are just a lil puppy yapping away.

There is no "argument" to be made. Facts and history have proven you wrong. And now that it's starting to hit you that you are the only asshole in the room, you're starting to get all riled up and defensive.

"Lil puppy yapping away"? Really? Are you really trying to play internet tough-guy now?

Come on big guy, give us more of that "tough" talk. It's so intimidating! Especially when it's coming from the only asshole in the room who thinks he's got it all figured out while the rest of the entire world is wrong...

 

[Bombur]

See what I mean? If everyone in the room is an asshole Bombur, it's probably you...

The fact that you think you've got it all figured out and the rest of the world is just "stupid" is comical. You're on the wrong side of the facts chief and you're ego won't allow you to admit it.

Once again you are all bark and no bite.

This thread is not the rest of the world.

You can't even pretend to create an argument because you are just a lil puppy yapping away.

There is no "argument" to be made. Facts and history have proven you wrong. And now that it's starting to hit you that you are the only asshole in the room, you're starting to get all riled up and defensive.

"Lil puppy yapping away"? Really? Are you really trying to play internet tough-guy now?

Come on big guy, give us more of that "tough" talk. It's so intimidating! Especially when it's coming from the only asshole in the room who thinks he's got it all figured out while the rest of the entire world is wrong...

You mean like when Reagan lowered taxes AND increased debt?

Yes the facts are on my side moron.

 

[Andylusion]

Once again you are all bark and no bite.

This thread is not the rest of the world.

You can't even pretend to create an argument because you are just a lil puppy yapping away.

There is no "argument" to be made. Facts and history have proven you wrong. And now that it's starting to hit you that you are the only asshole in the room, you're starting to get all riled up and defensive.

"Lil puppy yapping away"? Really? Are you really trying to play internet tough-guy now?

Come on big guy, give us more of that "tough" talk. It's so intimidating! Especially when it's coming from the only asshole in the room who thinks he's got it all figured out while the rest of the entire world is wrong...

You mean like when Reagan lowered taxes AND increased debt?

Yes the facts are on my side moron.

By increasing spending stupid. If spending had remained the same, the entire national debt would be paid off by now.

And who had control of spending anyway? Oh wait, the democraps?

Again, the facts are on our side, over and over. You on the other hand, can't even make a point about the content of this thread, let alone a point about economics or the federal budget.

You can't even figure out that even leftists on this forum are not defending you, because even they can see you don't know jack.

 

[Bombur]

There is no "argument" to be made. Facts and history have proven you wrong. And now that it's starting to hit you that you are the only asshole in the room, you're starting to get all riled up and defensive.

"Lil puppy yapping away"? Really? Are you really trying to play internet tough-guy now?

Come on big guy, give us more of that "tough" talk. It's so intimidating! Especially when it's coming from the only asshole in the room who thinks he's got it all figured out while the rest of the entire world is wrong...

You mean like when Reagan lowered taxes AND increased debt?

Yes the facts are on my side moron.

By increasing spending stupid. If spending had remained the same, the entire national debt would be paid off by now.

And who had control of spending anyway? Oh wait, the democraps?

Again, the facts are on our side, over and over. You on the other hand, can't even make a point about the content of this thread, let alone a point about economics or the federal budget.

You can't even figure out that even leftists on this forum are not defending you, because even they can see you don't know jack.

ROFLMAO

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts....

How about you stop making crap up and join the real world.

 

[RKMBrown]

You mean like when Reagan lowered taxes AND increased debt?

Yes the facts are on my side moron.

By increasing spending stupid. If spending had remained the same, the entire national debt would be paid off by now.

And who had control of spending anyway? Oh wait, the democraps?

Again, the facts are on our side, over and over. You on the other hand, can't even make a point about the content of this thread, let alone a point about economics or the federal budget.

You can't even figure out that even leftists on this forum are not defending you, because even they can see you don't know jack.

ROFLMAO

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts....

How about you stop making crap up and join the real world.

ROFL typical leftist, come join "my version" of the real world. Yeah, just like the MTV show "the real world".. your world is made up in your head.

 

[P@triot]

Once again you are all bark and no bite.

This thread is not the rest of the world.

You can't even pretend to create an argument because you are just a lil puppy yapping away.

There is no "argument" to be made. Facts and history have proven you wrong. And now that it's starting to hit you that you are the only asshole in the room, you're starting to get all riled up and defensive.

"Lil puppy yapping away"? Really? Are you really trying to play internet tough-guy now?

Come on big guy, give us more of that "tough" talk. It's so intimidating! Especially when it's coming from the only asshole in the room who thinks he's got it all figured out while the rest of the entire world is wrong...

You mean like when Reagan lowered taxes AND increased debt?

Yes the facts are on my side moron.

You know what else increased when Reagan lowered taxes? Prosperity. Wealth. Employment. The employed base from which to draw taxes from.

You know why the debt increased? Because of his spending.

It's a simple, undeniable fact that you cannot accumulate debt from a lack of income. If you made $0.00 per day, every day for 50 years you would still have 0 debt so long as you didn't spend money by borrowing it. Debt can only occur from spending.

You're trying to deny this reality is the result of your greed and sloth. You want to keep the government handouts to keep flowing your way so you're desperately trying to make the absurd case that lowering taxes destroys the world. I don't understand why Dumbocrats can't just have an honest conversation.

 

[Gadawg73]

The objective of success should be how many people we can help GET OFF the government programs so we can GIVE MORE support for those truly in need.
Exact opposite what the Obama administration has pushed.
Their policy is GROWING the programs and KEEPING people dependent on government is good.

 

[Bombur]

There is no "argument" to be made. Facts and history have proven you wrong. And now that it's starting to hit you that you are the only asshole in the room, you're starting to get all riled up and defensive.

"Lil puppy yapping away"? Really? Are you really trying to play internet tough-guy now?

Come on big guy, give us more of that "tough" talk. It's so intimidating! Especially when it's coming from the only asshole in the room who thinks he's got it all figured out while the rest of the entire world is wrong...

You mean like when Reagan lowered taxes AND increased debt?

Yes the facts are on my side moron.

You know what else increased when Reagan lowered taxes? Prosperity. Wealth. Employment. The employed base from which to draw taxes from.

You know why the debt increased? Because of his spending.

It's a simple, undeniable fact that you cannot accumulate debt from a lack of income. If you made $0.00 per day, every day for 50 years you would still have 0 debt so long as you didn't spend money by borrowing it. Debt can only occur from spending.

You're trying to deny this reality is the result of your greed and sloth. You want to keep the government handouts to keep flowing your way so you're desperately trying to make the absurd case that lowering taxes destroys the world. I don't understand why Dumbocrats can't just have an honest conversation.

I never made the claim that lowering taxes destroys the world.

I laughed at the notion that we can say lowering taxes helps grow the economy while completely ignoring the impact on debt and spending.

I laughed at the notion that increases taxes doesn't increase tax revenue and it will somehow destroy the economy if we did.

Last I reality supports the assertion that spending cuts are bad for the economy during a recession/recovery and debt spending is good. Whether that debt spending is more or less effective as a result of tax cuts or spending increases is up for debate but that is about it.

Taxes by definition are the cost. I don't think too many people would deny that. What is laughable are assertions that drastically over state their cost.

It is always funny to watch you clowns try and ignore spending and debt increases that happened under Reagan. It is fun to watch gross cognitive dissonance in action.

 

[Truthmatters]

they don't use FACTS

they want this Union killed

 

[bedowin62]

there is no amount of taxation that can keep pace with what the left is promising everybody

none; you can take every last dime from every rich person; it still wont make a dent

we have a spending problem stupid