Republican tax cut will not trickle down

[The Derp]

Yes, it's bad. You priced the low-skilled and less-educated out of the job market. Now you'll have to raise taxes to care for them.

Seattle's unemployment rate and U6 rate are lower than the rest of the country, and is among the best in the nation.

So the data doesn't square with your false concerns, does it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's some bad liberal math you're using there........

No, you're just saying that because you didn't realize that the average deductions total up to more than the standard deduction Conservatives were proposing.

It's important to note that only about 30% of taxpayers choose to itemize deductions on their tax returns, with the rest opting for the standard deduction instead.Also, these are the averages among itemized returns that claimed each type of deduction. For example, only 19% of itemized returns claimed a deduction for medical expenses (Not 100%, silly!), and of those returns that claimed the deduction, these are the average amounts that were claimed

So, you're raising taxes on 30% of people. So it's not a tax cut, then.

Apparently, since only 30% itemize, a tax cut for at least 70%.

But that's not how it's been sold!

Ummmm....so much wrong here.
If your numbers were right (they aren't), Subtracting $26,468 from $30,000 gives you taxable income of
$3,532.....at 10% the tax would be $353 not $2400.

Where are you getting the $30K from? What I was doing was subtracting the difference of the averages of the deductions vs. the doubling of the standard deduction. What you did here was completely ignore that comparison, deliberately, in order to create a fog of controversy.

Prior to the tax bill, the average amount itemized was $26,000
Your shit tax bill doubles the standard deduction to only $24,000

So that's a $2,000 liability.

More of your inexperience showing.

Their new tax, if your numbers were right (they aren't) would be 12% on taxable income of $6000, or $720.Irony is ironic.

Wrong.

No, you're just saying that because you didn't realize that the average deductions total up to more than the standard deduction Conservatives were proposing.

Can't read your own source? I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.

For example, only 19% of itemized returns claimed a deduction for medical expenses, and of those returns that claimed the deduction, these are the average amounts that were claimed.

What that means, my retarded friend, is that 81% don't claim a medical expenses deduction.
And you thought 100% did. LOL!

So, you're raising taxes on 30% of people.

Possible, but extremely unlikely.
Someone who actually had $30,000 in income with $22,800 in deductions and exemptions at the 10%
rate would pay $720 in taxes. The same person with the new 12% rate but the $24,000 deduction would still pay $720.
A tiny subset with more than $22,800 in deductions under the current system would see a tax increase, based on the incomplete information we're working with here.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No more low-wage jobs in Seattle? Not one?

If what you're theorizing is true, then Seattle's unemployment rate would have increased, not dropped to below 3%. Wages would have also decreased but instead Seattle had faster wage growth than the rest of the nation.

Those two points you have been unable to reconcile, choosing instead to try to lament the loss of low-wage jobs because you think American workers are overpaid anyway.

If what you're theorizing is true, then Seattle's unemployment rate would have increased, not dropped to below 3%

Why are you talking about total employment instead of just low-wage employment?

Is it because you're an idiot? Or is there another reason?

 

[BuckToothMoron]

The Republican tax cuts won't trickle down, CEO writes in scathing op-ed

It's not a surprise to Todd Carmichael, co-founder and CEO of La Colombe Coffee Roasters in Philadelphia.

"I can tell you what no other CEO wants to tell you," Carmichael writes in an op-ed in The Philadelphia Inquirer: "A half-trillion dollars of corporate tax giveaways proposed by the GOP aren't going to do a thing for the middle class, or create a single job. Because what every CEO knows but won't tell you is this: A tax break for their company simply means a fatter bottom line. Not jobs. Not investment." CEOs have "a powerful fiduciary duty to return all profits to shareholders — not to the employees, or the suppliers, or the community and certainly not to the unemployed or left behind," he explained. "Profit goes to shareholders (and the CEO) and not to the employees."


Just like when we cut taxes before. Cut taxes on the wealthy........and they just keep it

He is right in that it won’t trickle down. But his logic is flawed or at least incomplete. It’s true that corporations have a responsibility to grow the bottom line and share holder value. However that doesn’t always mean dropping all excess cash, in this case money saved on taxes, to the bottom line. The market could warrant using the cash to grow the enterprise via capital expenditures e.g. more employees, more equipment, etc. Unfortunately in this economy most companies do not see opportunities for growth, thus they hold or distribute cash and often times buy their own stock to boost share holder value. Trickle down can work in the right environment. This is not the right environment. Companies are not strapped for cash to grow, they are strapped for opportunities to grow. Big difference.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Given the choice between 2 cities, one mile apart, across state lines....call them TexasA and TexasB,
one state with a corporate tax rate of 95% the other state with a corporate tax rate of 20%,
where do you build the new Derp Industries factory?
Be honest. Use your fingers and your toes if you have to..........

That's a false choice, because the corporate income tax rate has no bearing on consumer demand.

That's a false choice, because the corporate income tax rate has no bearing on consumer demand.

Consumer demand is X. Next year it's going to rise 3%
So where do you build the new Derp Industries factory?
20% corporate tax rate jurisdiction or 95% corporate tax rate jurisdiction?

Come on man, use your toes!!!

 

[Boss]

Yes, it's bad. You priced the low-skilled and less-educated out of the job market. Now you'll have to raise taxes to care for them.

Seattle's unemployment rate and U6 rate are lower than the rest of the country, and is among the best in the nation.

So the data doesn't square with your false concerns, does it?

No, the data supports exactly what I said. Your focused on the overall unemployment rate and my statement was concerning the low-skilled and less-educated workers. The people on the very bottom rung are simply rendered unemployable. Thus, you will need a larger social safety net to care for them...or you can let them die. That's why Seattle has one of the largest tax rates in the nation.

I've already proven my argument with the Davis-Bacon Act, which you didn't apparently know about. Whenever we implement or mandate a minimum wage or increase said wage, it hits the lowest-skilled and least-educated workers hard. Ironically, those are the people you claim that you want to help with your failed policies.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

A tax break for their company simply means a fatter bottom line. Not jobs. Not investment." CEOs have "a powerful fiduciary duty to return all profits to shareholders — not to the employees, or the suppliers, or the community and certainly not to the unemployed or left behind," he explained. "Profit goes to shareholders (and the CEO) and not to the employees."

Shareholders like people such as myself with a 401k plan and personal mutual fund investments? Shareholders like union pension funds? Gee, that sure sucks.....

Just like when we cut taxes before. Cut taxes on the wealthy........and they just keep it

Sure, dumbass, because every millionaire got rich stashing their money in a bank earning .02% interest.

 

[Flash]

[QUO

Their new tax, if your numbers were right (they aren't) would be 12% on taxable income of $6000, or $720.

So everything you've been told about this bill is bullshit

Irony is ironic.

Isn't it amazing how these stupid Moon Bats believe all the bullshit that is told to them? Everything from this AGW scam to the clown math that they use to discredit a tax cut for the American people.

They are not smart enough to understand when they are being lied to.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that 70% of the people in this country will benefit greatly by a higher standard deduction and lower tax brackets but these Moon Bats have a very difficult time understanding it.

You have to be making a whole lot of money before the the money you will lose on itemization will offset the lower tax brackets so even most people that itemize will see a tax decrease.

The filthy ass Democrats can't stand prosperity so that is why they are trying to discredit a tax plan that will benefit most Americans and stimulate the economy.

The silly and dishonest math used by The Derp is just another dishonest manifestation of a filthy hate Trump agenda and has no connection with reality.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's some bad liberal math you're using there........

No, you're just saying that because you didn't realize that the average deductions total up to more than the standard deduction Conservatives were proposing.

It's important to note that only about 30% of taxpayers choose to itemize deductions on their tax returns, with the rest opting for the standard deduction instead.Also, these are the averages among itemized returns that claimed each type of deduction. For example, only 19% of itemized returns claimed a deduction for medical expenses (Not 100%, silly!), and of those returns that claimed the deduction, these are the average amounts that were claimed

So, you're raising taxes on 30% of people. So it's not a tax cut, then.

Apparently, since only 30% itemize, a tax cut for at least 70%.

But that's not how it's been sold!

Ummmm....so much wrong here.
If your numbers were right (they aren't), Subtracting $26,468 from $30,000 gives you taxable income of
$3,532.....at 10% the tax would be $353 not $2400.

Where are you getting the $30K from? What I was doing was subtracting the difference of the averages of the deductions vs. the doubling of the standard deduction. What you did here was completely ignore that comparison, deliberately, in order to create a fog of controversy.

Prior to the tax bill, the average amount itemized was $26,000
Your shit tax bill doubles the standard deduction to only $24,000

So that's a $2,000 liability.

More of your inexperience showing.

Their new tax, if your numbers were right (they aren't) would be 12% on taxable income of $6000, or $720.Irony is ironic.

Wrong.

Where are you getting the $30K from?

From an idiot.....

It's not a lower incremental tax bracket, it's a higher incremental tax bracket. You're raising taxes from 10% to 12% for anyone making up to $30K a year.

Republican tax cut will not trickle down

 

[Daryl Hunt]

the second wage increase to $13 reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by around 9 percent

So low-wage jobs were traded for high wage jobs and the net effect was higher employment and higher wages overall.

That's what the data shows.

tConsequently, total payroll fell for such jobs, implying that the minimum wage ordinance lowered low-wage employees’ earnings by an average of $125 per month in 2016.

BECAUSE THE JOBS BECAME HIGHER-PAYING JOBS.

That's why Seattle's unemployment rate is 2.8% and has the fastest wage growth in the nation.

You're grasping at straws and you don't even understand what you're saying.

I think lower low-wage employee earnings is a bad thing because they need more money, not less money.

The average wage for low-wage workers declined because the total number of low-wage workers declined because they got higher paying jobs.

If what you're saying is true, Seattle's unemployment would have increased and wages would have decreased. The opposite happened. So you're here lamenting the loss of low-paying jobs and higher wages. Welcome to bizarro world.

Say what? You mean the various levels of government crowing about the job numbers increase where the real increase was low paying jobs is false? The biggest increase of jobs has been Service Jobs for a number of years. Service Jobs is another way of saying Minimum pay or close to it jobs. Walmart made the claim that they have increased their pay to a minimum of 10 bucks. Yes they did. But for new hire only. That means a new hire now makes more than a 2 year employee. Plus, Walmart has been cutting the work force for quite some time as well. They expect more out of the employees to the point of becoming on the Dangerous Employer list.

 

[MPS777]

Given the choice between 2 cities, one mile apart, across state lines....call them TexasA and TexasB,
one state with a corporate tax rate of 95% the other state with a corporate tax rate of 20%,
where do you build the new Derp Industries factory?
Be honest. Use your fingers and your toes if you have to..........

That's a false choice, because the corporate income tax rate has no bearing on consumer demand.

I’m not convinced. Let’s say Barron von Bigwig is planning on building a new factory in either Eastlvania or Westlvania. Eastlvania is offering business tax breaks that will allow Barron to get more money to squirrel away in his Swiss bank account. So a new factory is built in Eastlvania resulting in people moving there to work at the factory. Those workers would be consumers that would demand other goods and services. More people demanding goods and services would attract more people to supply that increase in demand. If the workers are happy and prosperous, they’ll have families and kids that may be inspired to start their own business in Eastlvania. Therefore Eastlvania’s competitive tax advantage over Westlvania could lead it to achieve greater economic growth.

 

[danielpalos]

Which refutes your claim that their hours increased.

THE LINK ITSELF SAYS THE HOURS WORKED BY HIGH-WAGE WORKERS INCREASED.

There's also this inconvenient fact:

Seattle Sees Fastest Wage Growth in the U.S. in October
Tied with San Francisco for best in the nation, Seattle's wages grew 2.1 percent from October 2016 to October 2017 to a median salary north of $60,000.
...
Barista (up 5.8% to a median salary of $29,172)​

And this:

Seattle Unemployment Rate Matches All-Time 2.8% Low​

May 7, 2017

So not sure what shit points you're trying to make, but following Seattle's minimum wage increase, the city saw the fastest wage growth and record-low unemployment.

But keep screeching nonsensically about low-wage workers, even though Baristas saw their wages increase too.

There is no unemployment, only underpayment.

 

[Flash]

You know what is really pathetic?

These stupid Moon Bats are using the fact that the tax cuts are going to expire in ten years as a prediction that the tax plan will cause taxes to rise to rise in the future.

How stupid is that?

Moon Bats are morons. They prove it every day.

 

[busybee01]

You know what is really pathetic?

These stupid Moon Bats are using the fact that the tax cuts are going to expire in ten years as a prediction that the tax plan will cause taxes to rise to rise in the future.

How stupid is that?

Moon Bats are morons. They prove it every day.

Mitch McConnell admits that some in the middle class will see their taxes rise. Rubio and Lee admit that the tax bill will not help working class Americans. You are the moron.

 

[Boss]

Mitch McConnell admits that some in the middle class will see their taxes rise. Rubio and Lee admit that the tax bill will not help working class Americans. You are the moron.

Nobody "admitted" any such thing... You and your fake news propagandists like to take things out of context and distort what people say, then LIE YOUR ASS OFF to the American people.

 

[busybee01]

The fact is that businesses will do what is in their best interests. If it makes business sense they will expand or raise employee pay. However there is one thing that will prevent them from doing it. At 1 time making a profit was enough. Now analysts tell us how much money they need to make. Those analysts will be raising their estimates on the basis of a tax cut. They will have to keep most if not all of the extra money to meet their estimates and keep their stock prices up.

 

[Boss]

The fact is that businesses will do what is in their best interests. If it makes business sense they will expand or raise employee pay. However there is one thing that will prevent them from doing it. At 1 time making a profit was enough. Now analysts tell us how much money they need to make. Those analysts will be raising their estimates on the basis of a tax cut. They will have to keep most if not all of the extra money to meet their estimates and keep their stock prices up.

This is really simple, even for a dummy like yourself. Tax cuts mean more money in the pockets of tax payers. More money in the pockets of tax payers means more money in the economy, one way or another. There are only three possibilities when tax payers have more money... they spend it, they invest it or they consume it. Nothing else is possible in the realm of physics. If they spend it, then it goes directly into economic stimulation. If they invest or save it, then it becomes available capital for loans which also grow the economy. Finally, if they burn the money in the fireplace or eat it (consume it), then it simply makes the remaining money worth more. So no matter what happens, it will have a positive effect on the economy.

Look... we're not as stupid as you think.... we understand why you left-wingers are opposed to the tax cuts. You want MORE taxes! You would like to tax everyone as much as you possibly can and let the Almighty Government be our nanny and provide for our needs. That's your whole deal as lefties! The idea of letting us keep more of what we earn is antithetical to everything you stand for. So, of course you are opposed to this!

 

[busybee01]

Mitch McConnell admits that some in the middle class will see their taxes rise. Rubio and Lee admit that the tax bill will not help working class Americans. You are the moron.

Nobody "admitted" any such thing... You and your fake news propagandists like to take things out of context and distort what people say, then LIE YOUR ASS OFF to the American people.

You are the LYING ASSJOLE. McConnell said he misspoke when he said no one in the middle class would see a tax increase. There are no distortions and you are fake news.

 

[Boss]

Mitch McConnell admits that some in the middle class will see their taxes rise. Rubio and Lee admit that the tax bill will not help working class Americans. You are the moron.

Nobody "admitted" any such thing... You and your fake news propagandists like to take things out of context and distort what people say, then LIE YOUR ASS OFF to the American people.

You are the LYING ASSJOLE. McConnell said he misspoke when he said no one in the middle class would see a tax increase. There are no distortions and you are fake news.

I really don't care what marble mouth said, he is an incompetent Republican who needs to retire. The tax reforms involve elimination of what you used to call "loopholes for the rich" and complained vigorously about. Now, they are suddenly being exploited to show where SOME people may not see a decrease in taxes with the tax cuts. Yeah, if you are a "middle class" (you've not defined that) tax payer in a hyper-blue state with massive taxes, then the elimination of the SALT deduction will probably increase their tax burden. But these are people who itemize deductions, which means they are on the upper end of the "middle class" scale. The overwhelming majority of "middle class" taxpayers are going to see a huge decrease in taxes, starting in January on their first paychecks.

But hey... I thought you people LIKED higher taxes?

 

[busybee01]

The fact is that businesses will do what is in their best interests. If it makes business sense they will expand or raise employee pay. However there is one thing that will prevent them from doing it. At 1 time making a profit was enough. Now analysts tell us how much money they need to make. Those analysts will be raising their estimates on the basis of a tax cut. They will have to keep most if not all of the extra money to meet their estimates and keep their stock prices up.

This is really simple, even for a dummy like yourself. Tax cuts mean more money in the pockets of tax payers. More money in the pockets of tax payers means more money in the economy, one way or another. There are only three possibilities when tax payers have more money... they spend it, they invest it or they consume it. Nothing else is possible in the realm of physics. If they spend it, then it goes directly into economic stimulation. If they invest or save it, then it becomes available capital for loans which also grow the economy. Finally, if they burn the money in the fireplace or eat it (consume it), then it simply makes the remaining money worth more. So no matter what happens, it will have a positive effect on the economy.

Look... we're not as stupid as you think.... we understand why you left-wingers are opposed to the tax cuts. You want MORE taxes! You would like to tax everyone as much as you possibly can and let the Almighty Government be our nanny and provide for our needs. That's your whole deal as lefties! The idea of letting us keep more of what we earn is antithetical to everything you stand for. So, of course you are opposed to this!

You are the dummy. Businesses are not people. Companies will ether save the cash, make acquisitions which will lead to fewer jobs or use it for stock buybacks. None of these activities help the middle class. Salaries will only go up and businesses will only expand only if it makes business sense. This is not true tax reform. very few business tax breaks are done away with and in certain cases none are being touched.

You know nothing about me. The Reagan tax cuts in the early 80s raised taxes on no one. This tax reform bill is a hodge podge of tax increases on middle class people to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. Middle class deductions like SALT and interest on student loans are being done away with. Graduate students will see tax increases. Yet there are plenty of tax breaks the wealthy can use are being kept intact. The real estate industry is unscathed. A new loophole is being created for the wealthy to shelter their income at a lower rate. Even carried interest which Trump denounced is being kept.