Debate Now Republican candidates discussion, Conservative/libertarian/tea party only

[Sun Devil 92]

Ted Cruz and Rand Paul. A Christian and a Jeffersonian libertarian. We still have a pining for our revolutionary principles, however meager, and these two can remind us of them.

Yeah...Ted Cruz, Scott Walker and Rand Paul.......strong candidates.....

What about Carla Fiorini.....what do you guys think of her......I don't know much about her......

She's corporate....and self-centered.

I have not seen much good from her.

 

[Shrimpbox]

The CEO thing for me is about what's wrong in the country now. These guys are gunslingers(not all of them of course) who are in it for the money. It is more about their careers than the company or the people in the company. Is jack welch in this category? No of course not. But he is a legend in business and I believe he would agree that CEO pay is over the top. If there was a balancing act like failures got fired without pay and successful ones got richly rewarded I could deal with that, but CEOs have turned into an entitled aristocracy.

But irregardless of what I think the public has a perception. Republicans have a reputation for supporting big business whether deserved or not and if the public perceives that repubs can't relate to the common man(think Romney) we will lose votes. There must be a strategy to deal with the income inequality thing because that is going to be the Dems calling card.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I've been watching Mike Pence for some time and I like him.

I'd like to see him enter the race.

I also like Mitch Daniels.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Here's another strategy for the contenders. A number of years ago when bob graham(yes a democrat) was running for governor of Florida and while he was governor he would go and work as a janitor, or cook, or whatever for a shift every couple of months. This was extremely popular. There is no quicker way for candidates to establish a bond with the working man than to get down to his level, get his hands dirty, and rub shoulders with the working man and woman. Establish a connection with the voting public instead of just fat cat donors. Hilary Clinton cannot do this. This is success waiting to happen.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Sun let's keep this cordial. We are trying to avoid pissing contests on this thread and keep it positive and upbeat. Let's keep the focus on candidates and strategy. Thanks.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Sun let's keep this cordial. We are trying to avoid pissing contests on this thread and keep it positive and upbeat. Let's keep the focus on candidates and strategy. Thanks.

I'll finish anything others want to start.

Your point is still valid and I support you on that one.

There is everything conservative about wanting to get the playing field leveled. Government should not be picking winners and losers.

Most candidates don't speak in terms of doing that. It is unfortunate.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Here's another strategy for the contenders. A number of years ago when bob graham(yes a democrat) was running for governor of Florida and while he was governor he would go and work as a janitor, or cook, or whatever for a shift every couple of months. This was extremely popular. There is no quicker way for candidates to establish a bond with the working man than to get down to his level, get his hands dirty, and rub shoulders with the working man and woman. Establish a connection with the voting public instead of just fat cat donors. Hilary Clinton cannot do this. This is success waiting to happen.

You can't be insincere on this point.

Another conversation that conservatives should be having is just how we have the income disparity that we have now. It's partly do to governments willingness to protect and even subsidize large corporations.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on bailing out GM. I'd love to see a candidate come forward and say it should have been allowed to fail. And the monopoly that wall street has won't exist in four years. Not because we going to legislate against wall street but because we ware going to take a way the barriers to entry that keep it propped up.

 

[hortysir]

I stumbled across a late night reairing of Rubio with Chris Wallace.
I only saw the last few minutes but he seemed 'on it'.
Anyone see the whole thing?
Thoughts?

 

[Shrimpbox]

i can't let this one go by,

You're going to have to elect Hilary to find out what her policies are, you know like,pass the bill to find out what's in it? Priceless

 

[RKMBrown]

fi

After reflecting on that a bit, I have come to the conclusion that we on the right are too busy earning a living, taking care of our own future, and providing for ourselves and our loved ones to be all that passionate about politics and candidates and campaigns and such. And because we are the group that is much more willing to live and let live we tend to shrug and get on with our lives and don't get too concerned with those who hate us and everything we stand for.

And just how did you reach that conclusion ?

I'd really like to know.

If you are putting forth an opinion (a conclusion somehow implies you evaluated evidence), I'd like to know that before I jump all over it.

Fox said that not me you quoted the wrong person.

 

[Foxfyre]

And we may be doing ourselves harm. Look how much we have allowed the haters and leftwing media and opposing politicians, even in our own parties, to marginalize and demonize the Tea Party movement and similar grass roots effort for reform. Many who are personally sympathetic to Tea Party etc. ideals and goals for reform shy away from identifying with such groups or join with the opposition to criticize them.

And because we are that way, we are allowing 'them' to control the message, the agenda, and the direction the country is going.

The Tea Party has no more claim to a place in the public arena than anyone else.

The fact that they can't seem to manage their PR is nobody's fault but their own. I had considered joining a local group once, but I become disenchanted by all the wackjobs who seemed to be out in front.

When the Tea Party leans how to put together a good message and organize at the grassroots level (which means not putting the whackjobs in charge....and, in fact, telling them to STFU or get out), they might become more relevant in today's political world.

The Tea Party has not mismanaged their PR. They were targeted by the establishment in Congress--both GOP and Dem who didn't want the completion, trashed by the mainstream median and by the left on message boards, and denied fund raising ability by the current administrationso that they could not as effectively counter the negative press. Remember the IRS scandals?

Nor have they demanded any privilege or voice more than any other group is allowed. And who are the 'whackjobs'? Those identified by the permanent political class in Washington, the mainstream media, and others who want the Tea Party silenced? Those accused of all sorts of things the Tea Party has never stood for? Those the gullible among us believe from a dishonest press?

I'll admit the Tea Party has had terrible press. But it, and others like it, is the true grass roots reform movement. We can help the professional politicians and self serving groups marginalize and demonize them. Or we can give them an opportunity to make their case. So far, I have mostly liked the case they have made.

If we refuse to do that, it honestly isn't going to make any difference who we elect to Congress or the White House. One group may take us to hell in a hand basket a little slower, but they'll both take us there.

Sam Brownback has done a great deal to give the Tea Party a bad name.

And I can't even tell you if he belongs to the Tea Party or not.

The press has been able to use him to cream the Tea Party though.

And they've done little to fight it off.

They have completely mismanaged their PR. They are not united.

There are no Tea Party members. And you don't know if Brownback considers himself allied with the Tea Party but you use him as an example of a Tea Party whackjob? What kind of logic is that?

Brownback, however, has been trashed, demonized, mischaracterized, and insulted more than most purely because he is a true conservative with courage of his convictions and hasn't been afraid to defend them. And for awhile he was the national whipping boy illustrating how 'cruel' and 'unworkable' his conservative policies were in Kansas.

Well nobody mentions Brownback much anymore. He is too politically incorrect for the GOP to admire--they don't want to be tarred with such conservative positions. And the left has shut up because Brownback's policies have proved successful and beneficial for Kansas beyond anybody's wildest dreams.
How Kansas Governor Brownback Schooled Missouri On Tax Cuts And Showed The Region How To Grow - Forbes

THAT is what I want in a GOP nominee for 2016--somebody with the courage of his/her convictions and unafraid to defend them along with the instincts, courage, and know how to promote a robust, thriving economy which is the most compassionate and effective welfare program ever devised by humankind.

 

[Foxfyre]

After watching the interview programs for the last week or so, it has become obvious to me that "Would you have invaded Iraq?" has become the standard 'gotcha' question for anybody in the GOP. And it makes me want to scream!

Why don't they ask something that matters? Like, what kind of tax policy are you leaning toward? Or how would you begin to turn this economy around and restore American prosperity? How would you begin to shrink federal power instead of continuing to grow it? How do we go about stopping the increase in the national debt and start paying it down?

 

[Foxfyre]

And then there is this:

ATLANTA (AP) — South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham all but confirmed Monday that he will run for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination, saying he believes he'd be the best commander in chief amid continued Middle East unrest.

"I'm running because I think the world is falling apart," Graham said in an interview on "CBS This Morning." . . .
Graham I m running to be best commander-in-chief - AOL.com

I believe Graham has said he will make the final decision and announce on June 1.​

 

[Foxfyre]

The field could be very crowded if everybody who has said they are thinking about it actually runs. How many of these do you know on sight? That is at least one pretty good indication of his/her viability.

 

[hortysir]

16?

 

[hortysir]

Nikki's pretty hawt

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And we may be doing ourselves harm. Look how much we have allowed the haters and leftwing media and opposing politicians, even in our own parties, to marginalize and demonize the Tea Party movement and similar grass roots effort for reform. Many who are personally sympathetic to Tea Party etc. ideals and goals for reform shy away from identifying with such groups or join with the opposition to criticize them.

And because we are that way, we are allowing 'them' to control the message, the agenda, and the direction the country is going.

The Tea Party has no more claim to a place in the public arena than anyone else.

The fact that they can't seem to manage their PR is nobody's fault but their own. I had considered joining a local group once, but I become disenchanted by all the wackjobs who seemed to be out in front.

When the Tea Party leans how to put together a good message and organize at the grassroots level (which means not putting the whackjobs in charge....and, in fact, telling them to STFU or get out), they might become more relevant in today's political world.

The Tea Party has not mismanaged their PR. They were targeted by the establishment in Congress--both GOP and Dem who didn't want the completion, trashed by the mainstream median and by the left on message boards, and denied fund raising ability by the current administrationso that they could not as effectively counter the negative press. Remember the IRS scandals?

Nor have they demanded any privilege or voice more than any other group is allowed. And who are the 'whackjobs'? Those identified by the permanent political class in Washington, the mainstream media, and others who want the Tea Party silenced? Those accused of all sorts of things the Tea Party has never stood for? Those the gullible among us believe from a dishonest press?

I'll admit the Tea Party has had terrible press. But it, and others like it, is the true grass roots reform movement. We can help the professional politicians and self serving groups marginalize and demonize them. Or we can give them an opportunity to make their case. So far, I have mostly liked the case they have made.

If we refuse to do that, it honestly isn't going to make any difference who we elect to Congress or the White House. One group may take us to hell in a hand basket a little slower, but they'll both take us there.

Sam Brownback has done a great deal to give the Tea Party a bad name.

And I can't even tell you if he belongs to the Tea Party or not.

The press has been able to use him to cream the Tea Party though.

And they've done little to fight it off.

They have completely mismanaged their PR. They are not united.

There are no Tea Party members. And you don't know if Brownback considers himself allied with the Tea Party but you use him as an example of a Tea Party whackjob? What kind of logic is that? [The point being that the press has been able to frame this up as a Tea Party experiment. As much as I know you'd like to have this be a fair game....it isn't. Please show me where the Tea Party as come out to distance themselves from Brownback. To your point...you get drug over the coals... My point is that it stuff like this and the Tea Party is ill-equipped to deal with it. They have blown it in the PR world. That's the logic. It does not matter that Sammy B. is or isn't. He's been branded and he's taking you down with him.]

Brownback, however, has been trashed, demonized, mischaracterized, and insulted more than most purely because he is a true conservative with courage of his convictions and hasn't been afraid to defend them. And for awhile he was the national whipping boy illustrating how 'cruel' and 'unworkable' his conservative policies were in Kansas. [Brownback is not a true conservative in my estimation. Regardless, he has proceeded with an attitude that says something like "I have God on my side so you can suck on whatever I do." His policies have not damaged Kansas as much as some have made out. But that is the point. He has been a national whipping boy and he has no counter. PR Failure]

Well nobody mentions Brownback much anymore. He is too politically incorrect for the GOP to admire--they don't want to be tarred with such conservative positions. And the left has shut up because Brownback's policies have proved successful and beneficial for Kansas beyond anybody's wildest dreams.
How Kansas Governor Brownback Schooled Missouri On Tax Cuts And Showed The Region How To Grow - Forbes

[Kansas never was in bad shape. This article is grabbing at metrics that people really don't care about. Brownback has gotten waxed over the schools...for better or worse]

THAT is what I want in a GOP nominee for 2016--somebody with the courage of his/her convictions and unafraid to defend them along with the instincts, courage, and know how to promote a robust, thriving economy which is the most compassionate and effective welfare program ever devised by humankind.
[I'll take a candidate who is able to talk about things in an intelligent way and tell people he is not there to fix their problems. If he says "I'll fix the economy", I'm not voting for him. If he says "I'll do what I can to make the economy more free market...up to and including highliting the miserable business practices of our large corporations and getting rid of the regulations that protect them. But keep in mind my changes don't control the market so be prepared for whatever comes....] I'll take a hard look.

See my responses in [brackets] above.

 

[Foxfyre]

And we may be doing ourselves harm. Look how much we have allowed the haters and leftwing media and opposing politicians, even in our own parties, to marginalize and demonize the Tea Party movement and similar grass roots effort for reform. Many who are personally sympathetic to Tea Party etc. ideals and goals for reform shy away from identifying with such groups or join with the opposition to criticize them.

And because we are that way, we are allowing 'them' to control the message, the agenda, and the direction the country is going.

The Tea Party has no more claim to a place in the public arena than anyone else.

The fact that they can't seem to manage their PR is nobody's fault but their own. I had considered joining a local group once, but I become disenchanted by all the wackjobs who seemed to be out in front.

When the Tea Party leans how to put together a good message and organize at the grassroots level (which means not putting the whackjobs in charge....and, in fact, telling them to STFU or get out), they might become more relevant in today's political world.

The Tea Party has not mismanaged their PR. They were targeted by the establishment in Congress--both GOP and Dem who didn't want the completion, trashed by the mainstream median and by the left on message boards, and denied fund raising ability by the current administrationso that they could not as effectively counter the negative press. Remember the IRS scandals?

Nor have they demanded any privilege or voice more than any other group is allowed. And who are the 'whackjobs'? Those identified by the permanent political class in Washington, the mainstream media, and others who want the Tea Party silenced? Those accused of all sorts of things the Tea Party has never stood for? Those the gullible among us believe from a dishonest press?

I'll admit the Tea Party has had terrible press. But it, and others like it, is the true grass roots reform movement. We can help the professional politicians and self serving groups marginalize and demonize them. Or we can give them an opportunity to make their case. So far, I have mostly liked the case they have made.

If we refuse to do that, it honestly isn't going to make any difference who we elect to Congress or the White House. One group may take us to hell in a hand basket a little slower, but they'll both take us there.

Sam Brownback has done a great deal to give the Tea Party a bad name.

And I can't even tell you if he belongs to the Tea Party or not.

The press has been able to use him to cream the Tea Party though.

And they've done little to fight it off.

They have completely mismanaged their PR. They are not united.

There are no Tea Party members. And you don't know if Brownback considers himself allied with the Tea Party but you use him as an example of a Tea Party whackjob? What kind of logic is that? [The point being that the press has been able to frame this up as a Tea Party experiment. As much as I know you'd like to have this be a fair game....it isn't. Please show me where the Tea Party as come out to distance themselves from Brownback. To your point...you get drug over the coals... My point is that it stuff like this and the Tea Party is ill-equipped to deal with it. They have blown it in the PR world. That's the logic. It does not matter that Sammy B. is or isn't. He's been branded and he's taking you down with him.]

Brownback, however, has been trashed, demonized, mischaracterized, and insulted more than most purely because he is a true conservative with courage of his convictions and hasn't been afraid to defend them. And for awhile he was the national whipping boy illustrating how 'cruel' and 'unworkable' his conservative policies were in Kansas. [Brownback is not a true conservative in my estimation. Regardless, he has proceeded with an attitude that says something like "I have God on my side so you can suck on whatever I do." His policies have not damaged Kansas as much as some have made out. But that is the point. He has been a national whipping boy and he has no counter. PR Failure]

Well nobody mentions Brownback much anymore. He is too politically incorrect for the GOP to admire--they don't want to be tarred with such conservative positions. And the left has shut up because Brownback's policies have proved successful and beneficial for Kansas beyond anybody's wildest dreams.
How Kansas Governor Brownback Schooled Missouri On Tax Cuts And Showed The Region How To Grow - Forbes

[Kansas never was in bad shape. This article is grabbing at metrics that people really don't care about. Brownback has gotten waxed over the schools...for better or worse]

THAT is what I want in a GOP nominee for 2016--somebody with the courage of his/her convictions and unafraid to defend them along with the instincts, courage, and know how to promote a robust, thriving economy which is the most compassionate and effective welfare program ever devised by humankind.
[I'll take a candidate who is able to talk about things in an intelligent way and tell people he is not there to fix their problems. If he says "I'll fix the economy", I'm not voting for him. If he says "I'll do what I can to make the economy more free market...up to and including highliting the miserable business practices of our large corporations and getting rid of the regulations that protect them. But keep in mind my changes don't control the market so be prepared for whatever comes....] I'll take a hard look.

See my responses in [brackets] above.

And that has to do with Brownback being a Tea Party whackjob how?

But you have been talking about controlling the message and belittle the Tea Party because they haven't been able to do that effectively. How effectively do you think a GOP hopeful will be controlling the message if he has no specific plan to lay out of how he hopes to improve the economy?

 

[Foxfyre]

16?

Not yet. But one by one they are beginning to announce. And if they all announce, then yes, 16. And that doesn't include a really dark horse out there who may be thinking about it but is off the radar.

So for the debates--which I still wish they wouldn't have--it does seem they are going to have to whittle down the field somehow. And I don't see how they can do that other than by the percentage of approval rating folks are polling.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The Tea Party has no more claim to a place in the public arena than anyone else.

The fact that they can't seem to manage their PR is nobody's fault but their own. I had considered joining a local group once, but I become disenchanted by all the wackjobs who seemed to be out in front.

When the Tea Party leans how to put together a good message and organize at the grassroots level (which means not putting the whackjobs in charge....and, in fact, telling them to STFU or get out), they might become more relevant in today's political world.

The Tea Party has not mismanaged their PR. They were targeted by the establishment in Congress--both GOP and Dem who didn't want the completion, trashed by the mainstream median and by the left on message boards, and denied fund raising ability by the current administrationso that they could not as effectively counter the negative press. Remember the IRS scandals?

Nor have they demanded any privilege or voice more than any other group is allowed. And who are the 'whackjobs'? Those identified by the permanent political class in Washington, the mainstream media, and others who want the Tea Party silenced? Those accused of all sorts of things the Tea Party has never stood for? Those the gullible among us believe from a dishonest press?

I'll admit the Tea Party has had terrible press. But it, and others like it, is the true grass roots reform movement. We can help the professional politicians and self serving groups marginalize and demonize them. Or we can give them an opportunity to make their case. So far, I have mostly liked the case they have made.

If we refuse to do that, it honestly isn't going to make any difference who we elect to Congress or the White House. One group may take us to hell in a hand basket a little slower, but they'll both take us there.

Sam Brownback has done a great deal to give the Tea Party a bad name.

And I can't even tell you if he belongs to the Tea Party or not.

The press has been able to use him to cream the Tea Party though.

And they've done little to fight it off.

They have completely mismanaged their PR. They are not united.

There are no Tea Party members. And you don't know if Brownback considers himself allied with the Tea Party but you use him as an example of a Tea Party whackjob? What kind of logic is that? [The point being that the press has been able to frame this up as a Tea Party experiment. As much as I know you'd like to have this be a fair game....it isn't. Please show me where the Tea Party as come out to distance themselves from Brownback. To your point...you get drug over the coals... My point is that it stuff like this and the Tea Party is ill-equipped to deal with it. They have blown it in the PR world. That's the logic. It does not matter that Sammy B. is or isn't. He's been branded and he's taking you down with him.]

Brownback, however, has been trashed, demonized, mischaracterized, and insulted more than most purely because he is a true conservative with courage of his convictions and hasn't been afraid to defend them. And for awhile he was the national whipping boy illustrating how 'cruel' and 'unworkable' his conservative policies were in Kansas. [Brownback is not a true conservative in my estimation. Regardless, he has proceeded with an attitude that says something like "I have God on my side so you can suck on whatever I do." His policies have not damaged Kansas as much as some have made out. But that is the point. He has been a national whipping boy and he has no counter. PR Failure]

Well nobody mentions Brownback much anymore. He is too politically incorrect for the GOP to admire--they don't want to be tarred with such conservative positions. And the left has shut up because Brownback's policies have proved successful and beneficial for Kansas beyond anybody's wildest dreams.
How Kansas Governor Brownback Schooled Missouri On Tax Cuts And Showed The Region How To Grow - Forbes

[Kansas never was in bad shape. This article is grabbing at metrics that people really don't care about. Brownback has gotten waxed over the schools...for better or worse]

THAT is what I want in a GOP nominee for 2016--somebody with the courage of his/her convictions and unafraid to defend them along with the instincts, courage, and know how to promote a robust, thriving economy which is the most compassionate and effective welfare program ever devised by humankind.
[I'll take a candidate who is able to talk about things in an intelligent way and tell people he is not there to fix their problems. If he says "I'll fix the economy", I'm not voting for him. If he says "I'll do what I can to make the economy more free market...up to and including highliting the miserable business practices of our large corporations and getting rid of the regulations that protect them. But keep in mind my changes don't control the market so be prepared for whatever comes....] I'll take a hard look.

See my responses in [brackets] above.

And that has to do with Brownback being a Tea Party whackjob how?

But you have been talking about controlling the message and belittle the Tea Party because they haven't been able to do that effectively. How effectively do you think a GOP hopeful will be controlling the message if he has no specific plan to lay out of how he hopes to improve the economy?

I don't know that he is one (am I not explaining that ?). What I do know is that everything you read about (especially when it comes to schools) calls Brownback's efforts "a failed experiment" and likens the cuts to things the Tea Party would do if they had control. It's all bogus....you know that and I know that....but the left has been able to lie it's ass off.

Your second question is one that the GOP had better wake up to and wake up fast. Regardless of who they nominate, taxes and supply side will be one of the debates in 2016. Romney's camp failed to turn Obama's pre-emptive strike around and he paid for it with the election.

In my mind, Scott Walker has done a much better job of keeping the press crap under control.