Republican bill stops funding to states issuing DL's to illegals

[Daryl Hunt]

If an Employer showed reasonable caution in hiring and did accidently hire an illegal then there wouldn't be much of a fine and certainly no jail. Just looking around here, you know, "Real Life", there are crews doing carpet where only a couple speaks any english and the rest, it's a pretty good guess they are illegals. I have friends that are in that business and lose contracts to these other "Businesses" that can underbid on every contract as long as the real employer doesn't care if it's done by legal workers or not. It's a huge problem in the construction industry. If ICE raids the contractor, he just throws open the door and says, "Take them away" and runs in the next illegal batch.

The Employer will get his day in court but if almost his entire crew is deported he's going to be found guilty almost every time. Sentence him and that opens the jobs back up to LEGAL Employers. The crap that the Illegals don't take jobs is false. They do. A Laborer isn't a rocket scientist. And on some jobs, those Laborers make a nice living. Same goes for a lot of other construction jobs.

So it's a huge, daunting problem. The reason it's so huge and daunting is that its' allowed to keep happening over and over. If we start bagging the Employers that knowingly hire illegals (and this includes your Rump) then it starts to go down fast. If you give the HRs and such the tools to detect the employables not hire the ones that don't make that grade then it goes down even further. But it has to start somewhere.

It's actually pretty simple. No Jobs, No Drivers Licenses, no Housing. And that mean a lot fewer illegals.

Fewer, but certainly not an end to the problem. You can't wait until the problem gets here, and then we have to deal with it. You'd never stop widespread diseases that way. You'd never survive cancer that way. You are not going to solve the immigrant problem that way either.

The lefts position is to go after American businesses, but keep their sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, warn locals when ICE is coming to their area to conduct raids, let their kids go to school, let them have anchor babies, provide them with drivers licenses, and then say the solution is to attack business that hire them.

If the illegals can't work, find housing or drive, what good is a sanctuary city? How long will the City last when it has to foot the bill for the illegals 100% themselves? Do away with the Jobs, Housing, Medical, Welfare and Drivers License and there is no need for a Sanctuary City to exist. You are just doing the old "Look over There" routine or throwing crap at the wall hoping something sticks.

Why do you keep insisting I'm against the crackdown on hiring illegals? I'm not. I'm just trying to be realistic is all. I've done plenty of reading on it. You have to be able to prove the business knew they were hiring he illegals in the first place. It's too difficult to do, especially with all the fake identity around. Even if an employer knows they are hiring a person with not the most credible identity, you can't make a case against them if it's acceptable identity.

I remember when I was a young teen. There was this bar in town that younger people hung around. They didn't let you in without some form of identification. They knew what we presented was not authentic. But if they got busted, they could honestly tell the authorities we presented an ID that stated we were 21. That bar stayed open for generations.

We have laws in this country that protect these employers. We have little control over that. What we can control is sanctuary cities if we can keep Trump and get a Republican Congress. The problem is, even many Republicans are not for cracking down on illegal hiring practices. So we need to approach this from a way where we have the most control over.

Rather than face the real problems and coming up with solutions to prevent the hiring of illegals and putting employers that get caught hiring illegals away, you keep coming up with "Hey, Look over There".

Seems to be your favorite phrase. Kind of like "The Russians!" for the Democrat party.

What you don't seem to understand is the complexity of the issue. As I stated, employers have an easy out with all this identity fraud that created an industry in this country. So let me give you an example of what your dream plan might do:

You have a factory of 500 employees between all shifts. The employer has 10 illegals working for him or her. Your idea is to lock this employer up, close down the plant, and put 490 Americans who depend on that factory to support their family, out of a job. Is this what you really want?

If those illegals were not in this country in the first place, they would have no opportunity to get these jobs. Again, employers have constitutional rights like any non-employer; innocent until proven guilty beyond a readable doubt.

My plan is the exact opposite of yours. Let's concentrate on the things we can control instead of the things we can't. Border wall, this idea Trump came up with by withholding funds from states that issue drivers licenses. Trumps policy of not giving green cards to people that are using them to take advantage of our generous social programs. These are entities that our President has control of.

If they have 500 employees and 10 illegals, you fine them the first time. (this isn't normally being done). If they get caught again, you fine them more. If they persist, I am sure that they would be willing to sell their business to someone that is willing to adhere to the law because that would be the next step. If the business is in such a dire strait as needing to cut costs by having to hire those 10 illegals, maybe it shouldn't be in business in the first place. I am sure that their competitors that do things legally would agree and would have places for those 490 workers if they are good workers. Welcome to Capitalism.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

If you believe Sanders would beat Trump in a general election, you’re delusional.

And that is true...why? I am not saying it isn't, it may very well be true. But... Why?

Because we are a capitalist country first and foremost and Sanders is a self described Socialist and contrary to his rhetoric there is nothing democratic about Socialism. Even mayor Pete and Bloomberg think Sanders is a whack job.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Fewer, but certainly not an end to the problem. You can't wait until the problem gets here, and then we have to deal with it. You'd never stop widespread diseases that way. You'd never survive cancer that way. You are not going to solve the immigrant problem that way either.

The lefts position is to go after American businesses, but keep their sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, warn locals when ICE is coming to their area to conduct raids, let their kids go to school, let them have anchor babies, provide them with drivers licenses, and then say the solution is to attack business that hire them.

If the illegals can't work, find housing or drive, what good is a sanctuary city? How long will the City last when it has to foot the bill for the illegals 100% themselves? Do away with the Jobs, Housing, Medical, Welfare and Drivers License and there is no need for a Sanctuary City to exist. You are just doing the old "Look over There" routine or throwing crap at the wall hoping something sticks.

Why do you keep insisting I'm against the crackdown on hiring illegals? I'm not. I'm just trying to be realistic is all. I've done plenty of reading on it. You have to be able to prove the business knew they were hiring he illegals in the first place. It's too difficult to do, especially with all the fake identity around. Even if an employer knows they are hiring a person with not the most credible identity, you can't make a case against them if it's acceptable identity.

I remember when I was a young teen. There was this bar in town that younger people hung around. They didn't let you in without some form of identification. They knew what we presented was not authentic. But if they got busted, they could honestly tell the authorities we presented an ID that stated we were 21. That bar stayed open for generations.

We have laws in this country that protect these employers. We have little control over that. What we can control is sanctuary cities if we can keep Trump and get a Republican Congress. The problem is, even many Republicans are not for cracking down on illegal hiring practices. So we need to approach this from a way where we have the most control over.

Rather than face the real problems and coming up with solutions to prevent the hiring of illegals and putting employers that get caught hiring illegals away, you keep coming up with "Hey, Look over There".

Seems to be your favorite phrase. Kind of like "The Russians!" for the Democrat party.

What you don't seem to understand is the complexity of the issue. As I stated, employers have an easy out with all this identity fraud that created an industry in this country. So let me give you an example of what your dream plan might do:

You have a factory of 500 employees between all shifts. The employer has 10 illegals working for him or her. Your idea is to lock this employer up, close down the plant, and put 490 Americans who depend on that factory to support their family, out of a job. Is this what you really want?

If those illegals were not in this country in the first place, they would have no opportunity to get these jobs. Again, employers have constitutional rights like any non-employer; innocent until proven guilty beyond a readable doubt.

My plan is the exact opposite of yours. Let's concentrate on the things we can control instead of the things we can't. Border wall, this idea Trump came up with by withholding funds from states that issue drivers licenses. Trumps policy of not giving green cards to people that are using them to take advantage of our generous social programs. These are entities that our President has control of.

If they have 500 employees and 10 illegals, you fine them the first time. (this isn't normally being done). If they get caught again, you fine them more. If they persist, I am sure that they would be willing to sell their business to someone that is willing to adhere to the law because that would be the next step. If the business is in such a dire strait as needing to cut costs by having to hire those 10 illegals, maybe it shouldn't be in business in the first place. I am sure that their competitors that do things legally would agree and would have places for those 490 workers if they are good workers. Welcome to Capitalism.

More lies from this awful troll.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Fewer, but certainly not an end to the problem. You can't wait until the problem gets here, and then we have to deal with it. You'd never stop widespread diseases that way. You'd never survive cancer that way. You are not going to solve the immigrant problem that way either.

The lefts position is to go after American businesses, but keep their sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, warn locals when ICE is coming to their area to conduct raids, let their kids go to school, let them have anchor babies, provide them with drivers licenses, and then say the solution is to attack business that hire them.

If the illegals can't work, find housing or drive, what good is a sanctuary city? How long will the City last when it has to foot the bill for the illegals 100% themselves? Do away with the Jobs, Housing, Medical, Welfare and Drivers License and there is no need for a Sanctuary City to exist. You are just doing the old "Look over There" routine or throwing crap at the wall hoping something sticks.

Why do you keep insisting I'm against the crackdown on hiring illegals? I'm not. I'm just trying to be realistic is all. I've done plenty of reading on it. You have to be able to prove the business knew they were hiring he illegals in the first place. It's too difficult to do, especially with all the fake identity around. Even if an employer knows they are hiring a person with not the most credible identity, you can't make a case against them if it's acceptable identity.

I remember when I was a young teen. There was this bar in town that younger people hung around. They didn't let you in without some form of identification. They knew what we presented was not authentic. But if they got busted, they could honestly tell the authorities we presented an ID that stated we were 21. That bar stayed open for generations.

We have laws in this country that protect these employers. We have little control over that. What we can control is sanctuary cities if we can keep Trump and get a Republican Congress. The problem is, even many Republicans are not for cracking down on illegal hiring practices. So we need to approach this from a way where we have the most control over.

Rather than face the real problems and coming up with solutions to prevent the hiring of illegals and putting employers that get caught hiring illegals away, you keep coming up with "Hey, Look over There".

Seems to be your favorite phrase. Kind of like "The Russians!" for the Democrat party.

What you don't seem to understand is the complexity of the issue. As I stated, employers have an easy out with all this identity fraud that created an industry in this country. So let me give you an example of what your dream plan might do:

You have a factory of 500 employees between all shifts. The employer has 10 illegals working for him or her. Your idea is to lock this employer up, close down the plant, and put 490 Americans who depend on that factory to support their family, out of a job. Is this what you really want?

If those illegals were not in this country in the first place, they would have no opportunity to get these jobs. Again, employers have constitutional rights like any non-employer; innocent until proven guilty beyond a readable doubt.

My plan is the exact opposite of yours. Let's concentrate on the things we can control instead of the things we can't. Border wall, this idea Trump came up with by withholding funds from states that issue drivers licenses. Trumps policy of not giving green cards to people that are using them to take advantage of our generous social programs. These are entities that our President has control of.

If they have 500 employees and 10 illegals, you fine them the first time. (this isn't normally being done). If they get caught again, you fine them more. If they persist, I am sure that they would be willing to sell their business to someone that is willing to adhere to the law because that would be the next step. If the business is in such a dire strait as needing to cut costs by having to hire those 10 illegals, maybe it shouldn't be in business in the first place. I am sure that their competitors that do things legally would agree and would have places for those 490 workers if they are good workers. Welcome to Capitalism.

If your competition is in the next state, or several states away, the only thing that happens is those 490 people are out of a job and on unemployment, which in many cases, people will milk until the very last day.

All ICE can do is bust the place, but ICE doesn't run our Congress or our courts. They simply bring in those illegals and possibly bring charges against the employer. The employer goes to court, found not guilty, and he's back in business again. In most cases, the prosecutor won't pursue the case because of lack of evidence.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If an Employer showed reasonable caution in hiring and did accidently hire an illegal then there wouldn't be much of a fine and certainly no jail. Just looking around here, you know, "Real Life", there are crews doing carpet where only a couple speaks any english and the rest, it's a pretty good guess they are illegals. I have friends that are in that business and lose contracts to these other "Businesses" that can underbid on every contract as long as the real employer doesn't care if it's done by legal workers or not. It's a huge problem in the construction industry. If ICE raids the contractor, he just throws open the door and says, "Take them away" and runs in the next illegal batch.

The Employer will get his day in court but if almost his entire crew is deported he's going to be found guilty almost every time. Sentence him and that opens the jobs back up to LEGAL Employers. The crap that the Illegals don't take jobs is false. They do. A Laborer isn't a rocket scientist. And on some jobs, those Laborers make a nice living. Same goes for a lot of other construction jobs.

So it's a huge, daunting problem. The reason it's so huge and daunting is that its' allowed to keep happening over and over. If we start bagging the Employers that knowingly hire illegals (and this includes your Rump) then it starts to go down fast. If you give the HRs and such the tools to detect the employables not hire the ones that don't make that grade then it goes down even further. But it has to start somewhere.

It's actually pretty simple. No Jobs, No Drivers Licenses, no Housing. And that mean a lot fewer illegals.

You did good until you attacked Trump, then you lose because you made it political.

I just don't give Rump a free ride like you do. Rump Industries use Illegal Workers all the time. Rumps prized construction is build on the backs of illegals. It's not political. It's business. And it's illegal. It's just that it's been proven that Mar-a-Largo was originally built by illegals. That's not political, that just fact. Rump is just the highest profile business that it's been proven. Of course, the other one was fined something in the neighborhood between 50 and 90 million bucks. Now, that sounds like a lot but when you are talking about a multi billion dollar industry, that doesn't even bother a company. They pay the fine and just do it again since it will take the Feds another 5 years to get another conviction in a federal court. In the meantime, it's worth billions in profits. You don't like Rump Industries brought up about it, stop giving Rump a free ride on it. It's not politics, it's just business.

Like Trump said, change the policies and the game if want business people to comply with solid rules instead of the volital flexible rules that seem to change every day. All I know is that Trump is representing this nation right, and he is changing the rules and game into something everyone can believe in. Dwelling on the past is a bad idea when the man is actually guilty of doing his job for the American people, and especially while spending his time as the president for the people, and doing it for all of the people.

Again, stop doing the "Hey, look over there" routine and hit it where it really is. No jobs means no need for drivers licenses. No Housing means no need for Drivers Licenses. Do what is needed to setup up programs to deny the housing and jobs. And then those employers that continue to blatantly infract it lock their butts up and put them out of business. The legal employers will benefit.

Quit making everything about Trump, as if you are trying to damage his presidency or his re-election to the presidency with every issue you can think of.

If you think that Trump was the only one that was being a businessman for whom was following the trends in which thousands upon thousands of business people were also following and using throughout the late 80's and 90's, and exploiting every loop hole given them all in the process, then you are nothing but a political hack with one purpose here. That purpose is to get Trump at any cost, even though the actions of the business community was in unison on how to use the migration of Mexican's into the U.S. for their factories, fields, construction, paving, carpentry, concrete work, tree work, landscaping, maid services, janitorial services excetra, excetra, excetra.

You are the lib wanting people to look over there while keeping their mind off of the job Trump is currently doing for America, and doing for the American people.

Actually, I am pointing out the WHY's that you shouldn't. With all the LEGAL construction workers we have laying around waiting for their next job, pulling in that illegal to run that backhoe or front end loader takes meat off the legal workers family table. You "The Party of the Rump"ers all complain about illegals crossing the border and how big a travesty it is yet you are the first to hire them. And since Rump is still doing it in Rump Industries (not just the 80s and 90s) he should get at least an honorable mention. And so should each and every billionaire with far reaching corporate businesses. Yes, and that includes Soros, The Kochs, and all the rest. He's just the one that made the news and has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to hire illegals on a large scale for construction projects.

It's not about "Get Rump" it's about protecting our LEGAL workforce from illegals being imported in by the Uber Rich to take jobs. It's about taking away the incentive to come here in the first place. No Jobs, No Housing and you have no need for Drivers Licenses because you have no where to go in the first place except back to that factory in central Mexico that has a shortage of workers. If it means "Get Rump" then I guess that's what we need to do. And, the after affect is, you get what you want and that's fewer illegals coming to America.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You have to give industries a good reason to not move out of the country eh ???? Good grief. I could stay here all day on this subject with you, but I digress. It's not our fault Ray, and if you think that it is, then get help.

Just because someone comes up with a scheme to make more money, and to cheat a system by any means nessesary, doesn't mean that the good folks have to buy it all Hook line and sinker. That's purdy much what happened over time, and the poor American's post world war two have been led to the slaughter after all our efforts in that war to fight the very thing that's happened to us now.

I never assigned fault to anybody, I'm just stating what it is. Yes, we need to give businesses a reason to stay in the country. That includes lower taxes, less regulation, and not having forced labor wage and benefits. It's the way cities and states lure businesses to their area. They grant tax abatements to get them to come there, or keep them there.

Just like cities and states compete against each other, so do other countries.

All good if dealing with upstanding players who abide by the rules, but we haven't had that, so we got what we got over the years. Yes unions were broken, but are we seeing the reason's why after all these years ? Was it the same reasoning behind throwing the border wide open with the Democrats ? Look Ray, don't you understand that you can't trust anyone anymore ? It's a shame, but it's true.

I dont't understand what you mean by playing by the rules. When it comes to unions, they got way too powerful and way too greedy. I could write a book on my experiences with union places. In fact, if I went to a new business I was unfamiliar with, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not. Union people moved slower, had less of a concern about your situation. I've been to places that unloaded my truck, and when they were taking off the last pallet, the break buzzer would go off, and they'd stop the tow motor right at the end of the trailer, and make me wait 20 minutes until they got back.

Unions got so strong they were able to dictate who the company could hire, who they could fire, and who they had to promote when a higher position came up. They didn't go by how good or bad of a job you were doing; how capable you were of the advancement. It went by how long you were with the union.

When the only requirement of a worker is to be breathing to keep their job, you are going to have lower production rates. And again, unions inflated US workers out of the work force.

The last of the remaining customers with a union shop we had, voted the union out by the workers. It was a small shop, and the guy with the most seniority got the highest paid job via union regulations. The problem was, the guy couldn't do the job. So the owner of the company had to spend much of his day doing the job for him. So the employees got tougher and got rid of the union. Immediately afterwards, that employee got laid off, along with two other workers that were considered worthless. The job went to a person there that did the job before, and the workers never happier.

Agree about the problems, but was that a reason to try to take advantage of an American system while in it's weakness in order to destroy it, and then replace it with another that just about destroyed the entire country ??? How about working to fix things again, instead of seeing everything as a way to destroy something American, and to replace it with something that is un-American ? Do you think that Trump was lying when he said MAGA ? What was he seeing when he made the statement ? He was seeing industry after industry destroyed across this country, and it was mainly due to unfair trade practices, unfair NAFTA, and all sorts of combinations or contributors involved. It wasn't just unions that were a problem ok ?

Unions were the problem when it came to job loss and inflation. Country competition is just like what goes on in the states. In liberal states, you need to make 20 bucks an hour just to live in poverty. I read an article where housing in San Francisco is 750K just for an average size home. For 750K here, you can just about live in a mansion.

In other words, we are not living that much better than when our wages were lower, because the cost of everything else increases. It's like the minimum wage argument. Sure, you can make it 15 bucks an hour, but soon, those minimum wage workers will find themselves right back to where they started because everything else around them increases in price as well.

So people in other countries work for pennies on the dollar, but their expenses are low enough where they can make a living at those low wages. Then when they compete with us for jobs, they win. Fix it How? Bringing back unions certainly won't do it. If anything, it will make it worse.

Different problem but a problem just as important. I suggest you start another thread on it otherwise it's just another "Hey, Look over There".

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Because we are a capitalist country first and foremost and Sanders is a self described Socialist and contrary to his rhetoric there is nothing democratic about Socialism. Even mayor Pete and Bloomberg think Sanders is a whack job.

That's not compelling to me, sorry. These things are argued on data, not gut feelings and personal anecdotes, in a country of 300 million+.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

All you Republicans keep going on about states' rights. Well the issuance of drivers licenses is a state issue, and the feds can't say dick about it.

Trump tried this before, the cities and states sued, and the Administration lost every case.

Does Canada issue drivers licenses to illegal aliens and if not then why is your country so hateful?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I never assigned fault to anybody, I'm just stating what it is. Yes, we need to give businesses a reason to stay in the country. That includes lower taxes, less regulation, and not having forced labor wage and benefits. It's the way cities and states lure businesses to their area. They grant tax abatements to get them to come there, or keep them there.

Just like cities and states compete against each other, so do other countries.

All good if dealing with upstanding players who abide by the rules, but we haven't had that, so we got what we got over the years. Yes unions were broken, but are we seeing the reason's why after all these years ? Was it the same reasoning behind throwing the border wide open with the Democrats ? Look Ray, don't you understand that you can't trust anyone anymore ? It's a shame, but it's true.

I dont't understand what you mean by playing by the rules. When it comes to unions, they got way too powerful and way too greedy. I could write a book on my experiences with union places. In fact, if I went to a new business I was unfamiliar with, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not. Union people moved slower, had less of a concern about your situation. I've been to places that unloaded my truck, and when they were taking off the last pallet, the break buzzer would go off, and they'd stop the tow motor right at the end of the trailer, and make me wait 20 minutes until they got back.

Unions got so strong they were able to dictate who the company could hire, who they could fire, and who they had to promote when a higher position came up. They didn't go by how good or bad of a job you were doing; how capable you were of the advancement. It went by how long you were with the union.

When the only requirement of a worker is to be breathing to keep their job, you are going to have lower production rates. And again, unions inflated US workers out of the work force.

The last of the remaining customers with a union shop we had, voted the union out by the workers. It was a small shop, and the guy with the most seniority got the highest paid job via union regulations. The problem was, the guy couldn't do the job. So the owner of the company had to spend much of his day doing the job for him. So the employees got tougher and got rid of the union. Immediately afterwards, that employee got laid off, along with two other workers that were considered worthless. The job went to a person there that did the job before, and the workers never happier.

Agree about the problems, but was that a reason to try to take advantage of an American system while in it's weakness in order to destroy it, and then replace it with another that just about destroyed the entire country ??? How about working to fix things again, instead of seeing everything as a way to destroy something American, and to replace it with something that is un-American ? Do you think that Trump was lying when he said MAGA ? What was he seeing when he made the statement ? He was seeing industry after industry destroyed across this country, and it was mainly due to unfair trade practices, unfair NAFTA, and all sorts of combinations or contributors involved. It wasn't just unions that were a problem ok ?

Unions were the problem when it came to job loss and inflation. Country competition is just like what goes on in the states. In liberal states, you need to make 20 bucks an hour just to live in poverty. I read an article where housing in San Francisco is 750K just for an average size home. For 750K here, you can just about live in a mansion.

In other words, we are not living that much better than when our wages were lower, because the cost of everything else increases. It's like the minimum wage argument. Sure, you can make it 15 bucks an hour, but soon, those minimum wage workers will find themselves right back to where they started because everything else around them increases in price as well.

So people in other countries work for pennies on the dollar, but their expenses are low enough where they can make a living at those low wages. Then when they compete with us for jobs, they win. Fix it How? Bringing back unions certainly won't do it. If anything, it will make it worse.

Different problem but a problem just as important. I suggest you start another thread on it otherwise it's just another "Hey, Look over There".

I'm just responding to another poster that did bring it up.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

pulling in that illegal to run that backhoe or front end loader

You're uninformed. Most places REQUIRE a license to run that equipment or at the very least a trade school certificate.
Those are not the jobs the illegals are taking. They are taking the low and no skill job positions. Like fry cook and laborer

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You did good until you attacked Trump, then you lose because you made it political.

I just don't give Rump a free ride like you do. Rump Industries use Illegal Workers all the time. Rumps prized construction is build on the backs of illegals. It's not political. It's business. And it's illegal. It's just that it's been proven that Mar-a-Largo was originally built by illegals. That's not political, that just fact. Rump is just the highest profile business that it's been proven. Of course, the other one was fined something in the neighborhood between 50 and 90 million bucks. Now, that sounds like a lot but when you are talking about a multi billion dollar industry, that doesn't even bother a company. They pay the fine and just do it again since it will take the Feds another 5 years to get another conviction in a federal court. In the meantime, it's worth billions in profits. You don't like Rump Industries brought up about it, stop giving Rump a free ride on it. It's not politics, it's just business.

Like Trump said, change the policies and the game if want business people to comply with solid rules instead of the volital flexible rules that seem to change every day. All I know is that Trump is representing this nation right, and he is changing the rules and game into something everyone can believe in. Dwelling on the past is a bad idea when the man is actually guilty of doing his job for the American people, and especially while spending his time as the president for the people, and doing it for all of the people.

Again, stop doing the "Hey, look over there" routine and hit it where it really is. No jobs means no need for drivers licenses. No Housing means no need for Drivers Licenses. Do what is needed to setup up programs to deny the housing and jobs. And then those employers that continue to blatantly infract it lock their butts up and put them out of business. The legal employers will benefit.

Quit making everything about Trump, as if you are trying to damage his presidency or his re-election to the presidency with every issue you can think of.

If you think that Trump was the only one that was being a businessman for whom was following the trends in which thousands upon thousands of business people were also following and using throughout the late 80's and 90's, and exploiting every loop hole given them all in the process, then you are nothing but a political hack with one purpose here. That purpose is to get Trump at any cost, even though the actions of the business community was in unison on how to use the migration of Mexican's into the U.S. for their factories, fields, construction, paving, carpentry, concrete work, tree work, landscaping, maid services, janitorial services excetra, excetra, excetra.

You are the lib wanting people to look over there while keeping their mind off of the job Trump is currently doing for America, and doing for the American people.

Actually, I am pointing out the WHY's that you shouldn't. With all the LEGAL construction workers we have laying around waiting for their next job, pulling in that illegal to run that backhoe or front end loader takes meat off the legal workers family table. You "The Party of the Rump"ers all complain about illegals crossing the border and how big a travesty it is yet you are the first to hire them. And since Rump is still doing it in Rump Industries (not just the 80s and 90s) he should get at least an honorable mention. And so should each and every billionaire with far reaching corporate businesses. Yes, and that includes Soros, The Kochs, and all the rest. He's just the one that made the news and has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to hire illegals on a large scale for construction projects.

It's not about "Get Rump" it's about protecting our LEGAL workforce from illegals being imported in by the Uber Rich to take jobs. It's about taking away the incentive to come here in the first place. No Jobs, No Housing and you have no need for Drivers Licenses because you have no where to go in the first place except back to that factory in central Mexico that has a shortage of workers. If it means "Get Rump" then I guess that's what we need to do. And, the after affect is, you get what you want and that's fewer illegals coming to America.

As far as Trump goes, he was accused of hiring illegals for Trump tower. The truth is, Trump hired a demolition company that used illegal Polish workers for the project, and Trump had no knowledge of it. Again, Trump is not in charge of the court system or our laws. Trump is doing more to fight illegal immigration than the last four Presidents combined.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Because we are a capitalist country first and foremost and Sanders is a self described Socialist and contrary to his rhetoric there is nothing democratic about Socialism. Even mayor Pete and Bloomberg think Sanders is a whack job.

That's not compelling to me, sorry. These things are argued on data, not gut feelings and personal anecdotes, in a country of 300 million+.

You don't work in the business world, this is why your posts are crazy. If Bernie somehow wins the economy will tumble.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

pulling in that illegal to run that backhoe or front end loader

You're uninformed. Most places REQUIRE a license to run that equipment or at the very least a trade school certificate.
Those are not the jobs the illegals are taking. They are taking the low and no skill job positions. Like fry cook and laborer

They are in all kinds of fields of different work. That's the problem.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because we are a capitalist country first and foremost and Sanders is a self described Socialist and contrary to his rhetoric there is nothing democratic about Socialism. Even mayor Pete and Bloomberg think Sanders is a whack job.

That's not compelling to me, sorry. These things are argued on data, not gut feelings and personal anecdotes, in a country of 300 million+.

You don't work in the business world, this is why your posts are crazy. If Bernie somehow wins the economy will tumble.

If Warren wins, much worse. Her promise is that her first day in the White House, she would sign an executive order to stop all fracking within the US. That means our fuel prices will eventually double, a lot of people out of work, and a recession on the horizon.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If the illegals can't work, find housing or drive, what good is a sanctuary city? How long will the City last when it has to foot the bill for the illegals 100% themselves? Do away with the Jobs, Housing, Medical, Welfare and Drivers License and there is no need for a Sanctuary City to exist. You are just doing the old "Look over There" routine or throwing crap at the wall hoping something sticks.

Why do you keep insisting I'm against the crackdown on hiring illegals? I'm not. I'm just trying to be realistic is all. I've done plenty of reading on it. You have to be able to prove the business knew they were hiring he illegals in the first place. It's too difficult to do, especially with all the fake identity around. Even if an employer knows they are hiring a person with not the most credible identity, you can't make a case against them if it's acceptable identity.

I remember when I was a young teen. There was this bar in town that younger people hung around. They didn't let you in without some form of identification. They knew what we presented was not authentic. But if they got busted, they could honestly tell the authorities we presented an ID that stated we were 21. That bar stayed open for generations.

We have laws in this country that protect these employers. We have little control over that. What we can control is sanctuary cities if we can keep Trump and get a Republican Congress. The problem is, even many Republicans are not for cracking down on illegal hiring practices. So we need to approach this from a way where we have the most control over.

Rather than face the real problems and coming up with solutions to prevent the hiring of illegals and putting employers that get caught hiring illegals away, you keep coming up with "Hey, Look over There".

Seems to be your favorite phrase. Kind of like "The Russians!" for the Democrat party.

What you don't seem to understand is the complexity of the issue. As I stated, employers have an easy out with all this identity fraud that created an industry in this country. So let me give you an example of what your dream plan might do:

You have a factory of 500 employees between all shifts. The employer has 10 illegals working for him or her. Your idea is to lock this employer up, close down the plant, and put 490 Americans who depend on that factory to support their family, out of a job. Is this what you really want?

If those illegals were not in this country in the first place, they would have no opportunity to get these jobs. Again, employers have constitutional rights like any non-employer; innocent until proven guilty beyond a readable doubt.

My plan is the exact opposite of yours. Let's concentrate on the things we can control instead of the things we can't. Border wall, this idea Trump came up with by withholding funds from states that issue drivers licenses. Trumps policy of not giving green cards to people that are using them to take advantage of our generous social programs. These are entities that our President has control of.

If they have 500 employees and 10 illegals, you fine them the first time. (this isn't normally being done). If they get caught again, you fine them more. If they persist, I am sure that they would be willing to sell their business to someone that is willing to adhere to the law because that would be the next step. If the business is in such a dire strait as needing to cut costs by having to hire those 10 illegals, maybe it shouldn't be in business in the first place. I am sure that their competitors that do things legally would agree and would have places for those 490 workers if they are good workers. Welcome to Capitalism.

If your competition is in the next state, or several states away, the only thing that happens is those 490 people are out of a job and on unemployment, which in many cases, people will milk until the very last day.

All ICE can do is bust the place, but ICE doesn't run our Congress or our courts. They simply bring in those illegals and possibly bring charges against the employer. The employer goes to court, found not guilty, and he's back in business again. In most cases, the prosecutor won't pursue the case because of lack of evidence.

Capitalism has a tendency to even things out if you just allow it. If your community wants a business, it can get a replacement business. It's done every day. Those 490 workers won't be out of work very long if the City, County and State decide to get a replacement business in there. The Government is supposed to work for the People and this is one way that many of the smart one do. If it doesn't then get people in there that will.

One of the best examples is the bidding for a specific business that will bring in X number of local jobs at 60% of their workforce. I followed a company a few years ago. The Bids came from Colorado Springs, Rapid City, Grand Junction, and a few others. Grand Junction won the company. The County and City provided a 3.1 million dollar building with tax incentives for a 5 year period for 5 years. It put about 400 local people to work at good paying jobs. They more than got their money back in taxes on the workers themselves and other taxes. The problem is, at the end of the 5 year period, the bidding started all over again and another community underbid Grand Junction and the Company was off to the races. But for 5 years, it was a well thought out business and employment arrangement.

Meanwhile, there are companies with large employment numbers that stick around that complain that they don't get any of those incentives but they stick around because the shock of moving is just too much for them. Do ANY of these hire Illegals? Not to my knowledge. And they are profitable, stable, and will be around for a very, very long time.

The main problem we have for illegal workers is the Construction and Service Industry. In the Service Industry, if you shut down one for hiring illegals, there are 10 ready and able to step in with legal workers but you are going to have to pay LEGAL wages to the workers. If you shut down a Construction company down for using Illegals then there are at least 2 companies will and able to expand and take over those jobs with experienced LEGAL Workers. I have friends and acquaintances that are sitting at home much of the time because their companies got underbid by the companies that use illegals. Just because a person is illegal doesn't mean that they will automatically do a poor job.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

pulling in that illegal to run that backhoe or front end loader

You're uninformed. Most places REQUIRE a license to run that equipment or at the very least a trade school certificate.
Those are not the jobs the illegals are taking. They are taking the low and no skill job positions. Like fry cook and laborer

They are in all kinds of fields of different work. That's the problem.

View attachment 308188

Like I said UNSKILLED jobs. And dunno why CITIZENS are included in that lol

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Does Canada issue drivers licenses to illegal aliens and if not then why is your country so hateful?

If you are going to use such info to make a point, you really should look it up for yourself

 

[Daryl Hunt]

pulling in that illegal to run that backhoe or front end loader

You're uninformed. Most places REQUIRE a license to run that equipment or at the very least a trade school certificate.
Those are not the jobs the illegals are taking. They are taking the low and no skill job positions. Like fry cook and laborer

If I am running a non union privately owned site, most states stay out of my business except in the case of something like Public Safety like Electrics, Gas and Water. For moving dirt, if I own the property, own the backhoe and own the dirt then I can have Peewee Herman run that backhoe without a license.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You don't work in the business world,

False. And your silly as hominem and appeals to emotion hurt your credibility and do not support your athoritative statements that, so far, you have not even attempted to support with any data or salient examples

And this is because you don't have any data or salient examples. So, you fling poo.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Does Canada issue drivers licenses to illegal aliens and if not then why is your country so hateful?

If you are going to use such info to make a point, you really should look it up for yourself

Why?

I am asking her and better yet name any country that issues legal drivers licenses to illegal Immigrats besides the States within our Union?

When you realize none of them do then explain why the U.S. should be forced to do so?