Report: no widespread fraud in SC elections

[ClosedCaption]

No "widespread" fraud = there is fraud...it just isn't "widespread"...which of course, could mean anything.

More mumbo-jumbo propaganda from the left.

Don't click the link or you'll see that repubs investigated it and found nothing. Yes, the left is that good. They can make the GOP not see things that are clearly there Womp womp

 

[Seawytch]

Doesn't matter. Voter ID nuts will still state South Carolina's "fraud" as fact. They have never let truth jor logic get in the way before, so why start now.

Not trying to be a doubting thomas here but there is fraud that is on purpose and there is fraud committed by accident. My polling place chaned a few times while I lived in Texas because I was re-districted into another district. I wasn't commiting fraud but I was in a booth where I didn't belong, casting a ballot. If you were to examine that election, my ballot should have been thrown out.

But let's say that the line I crossed over wasn't a redistricting line but one of city limits. We lived in Houston but two or three blocks away was another city. City ordinances would be on the ballot often; just as they are in Phoenix now. If you live in Glendale or Tucson or Paradise Valley or Tempe, the Phoenix ordinances don't affect you. If you're going to the wrong polling place, you could be voting on ordinances that you should be disallowed from; the folks in Tempe shouldn't be voting to increase the Phoenix city sales tax for example.

I would wager that several people show up at the polling place ignorant of whether it is the "official" polling location or not and are given a ballot that is improper. Since Brewer and McCain and/or Flake are on the ballot, they cast the ballot but down ballot, there are judges, referendums, propositions, etc...

Should people in Ohio be able to vote in Pennsylvania? I don't think so. I would like to have as much assurance as possible that it isn't happening.

This is how it works in CA. If you are registered in the county and go to the wrong polling place, you vote Provisionally and only those parts of the ballot that you are qualified to vote on are counted.

If your name isn't in the roster signifying you are registered in that precinct, for that county, you vote Provisionally. If you aren't registered in the county, your ballot isn't counted.

 

[Seawytch]

In my 7 years working at a registrar, I've seen four "dead people" vote. One voted by mail before they died, two that signed the wrong line of the roster and one that we killed off that wasn't dead.

 

[koshergrl]

Seawytch, nobody cares. And completely irrelevant.

 

[koshergrl]

No "widespread" fraud = there is fraud...it just isn't "widespread"...which of course, could mean anything.

More mumbo-jumbo propaganda from the left.

Don't click the link or you'll see that repubs investigated it and found nothing. Yes, the left is that good. They can make the GOP not see things that are clearly there Womp womp

"We hardly EVER cheat!"

 

[Pete7469]

Yet another "voter fraud" story by the GOP turns up nothing. Surprised?

COLUMBIA, S.C. No one intentionally cast a ballot in South Carolina using the names of dead people in recent elections, despite allegations to the contrary, according to a State Law Enforcement Division report obtained Friday by The Associated Press.

Attorney General Alan Wilson asked the agency to investigate last year after the Department of Motor Vehicles determined in early 2012 that more than 900 people listed as deceased also had voted in recent years.

Wilson referred the information to state police, saying that the number of people cited in the analysis "is an alarming number and clearly necessitates an investigation into criminal activity."

State Election Commission director Marci Andino had her staff take a look at questionable votes from the November 2010 general election, or about 200 of the more than 900 votes total - information that was also ultimately analyzed by the law enforcement division. Nearly half of the issues could be attributed to clerical errors, while several dozen resulted from DMV officials running Social Security numbers of voters against dead people but not seeing if the names matched.

Several other issues arose from ballots cast by men with the same names as their deceased fathers.

Read more here: Report: no widespread fraud in SC elections | CharlotteObserver.com

Create a boogey man then make a law against Boogey men

After DMV Director Kevin Shwedo testified before state lawmakers about his agency's findings, Republican lawmakers and other elected officials immediately said the analysis and possible voter fraud showed why the new law was necessary.

Rep. Bakari Sellers, D-Denmark, who sits on the panel before which Shwedo appeared, questioned the expense of the police investigation, as well as the origin of the numbers to which Shwedo testified.

"What they used were fictitious numbers to promote a regressive piece of legislation," he said. "They needed something to grasp ahold of to justify taking steps backward in our voting-rights laws. ... It's apparent that we were lied to, and that's troubling."

Read more here: Report: no widespread fraud in SC elections | CharlotteObserver.com

Republicans crying wolf...

So let me get this straight. The DMV reports criminal activity, but an AG who works for Eric Holder (or can be at least manipulated by him) says it didn't happen.

Just like the black panthers didn't actually intimidate voters right?

 

[OKTexas]

Too little too late, they never said that fraud didn't exist, it just wasn't as widespread as thought. And the big bold letters used in the op ignore the fact that the federal courts upheld the SC voter ID law, seems they didn't agree that it was a step backwards in voting rights. Just another fantasy fabrication from the left.

Judges only rule on constitutionality, not the stupidity of a law. If they did, Voter ID would be unanimously struck down. Several judges on the state level have stated Voter ID is completely unnecessary while upholding such laws at the same time. You are free to be a stupid idiot in this country. That's not unconstitutional.

Other Voter ID laws have been struck down or delayed because they did present unconstitutional obstacles.

The faux right wing seems extremely intent on forcing everyone to carry identity papers and to produce them on demand.

Right, that updated voter registration card that is acceptable in SC is soooooooo threatening. Can you name one first world nation, other than the US of course, that don't universally require proof of citizenship and voter ID for their elections?

 

[ClosedCaption]

No "widespread" fraud = there is fraud...it just isn't "widespread"...which of course, could mean anything.

More mumbo-jumbo propaganda from the left.

Don't click the link or you'll see that repubs investigated it and found nothing. Yes, the left is that good. They can make the GOP not see things that are clearly there Womp womp

"We hardly EVER cheat!"

More like "We can NEVER PROVE cheating"

 

[koshergrl]

No, more like "We never cheat! Only this couple of times when we got caught...we're hardly criminal at ALL!"

 

[koshergrl]

Don't click the link or you'll see that repubs investigated it and found nothing. Yes, the left is that good. They can make the GOP not see things that are clearly there Womp womp

"We hardly EVER cheat!"

More like "We can NEVER PROVE cheating"

Actually, they did prove it. The numbers weren't fictitious at all. Upon FURTHER investigation (which would not have been undertaken if they hadn't been caught) they are able to explain away some...but not all.

And who's doing the investigation?

Why the people who have the most to lose! Who of course maintain there's nothing afoot, and ALMOST all of the stuff is explained...

Of course..no numbers provided. Nothing in real terms that you can do anything with.

Makes perfect sense. Investigate yourself! You'll find out there's hardly ever any wrongdoing when people investigate themselves.

 

[Seawytch]

Seawytch, nobody cares. And completely irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant since that is exactly what they found in SC?

In a news release that election agency spokesman Chris Whitmire handed out prior to the hearing, the agency disputed the claim that dead people had voted. One allegedly dead voter on the DMV's list cast an absentee ballot before dying; another was the result of a poll worker mistakenly marking the voter as his deceased father; two were clerical errors resulting from stray marks on voter registration lists detected by a scanner; two others resulted from poll managers incorrectly marking the name of the voter in question instead of the voter above or below on the list.

There are no widespread incidents of dead people voting...as is so often claimed.

 

[candycorn]

No one has ever shown fraud in a local election being on the level of 2200 fraudulent votes by a method that would be prevented by Voter ID. Not even close.

We have managed to hold elections for over two centuries without Voter ID. I would venture that most "fraudulent votes" these days are operator error in the use of electronic voting machines. Voting booths manned by volunteer septuagenarians who can't even program their DVD players who receive five minutes of training on how to manage voting machines. That's who is handling our voting process. Senior citizens a little slow on the uptake.

Again, the past is not a promise of future behavior.

I would make the same wager by the way...that it is erroneous on one or the other parties...so why accept it when generations old technology exists to correct it?

I've been looking at "election fraud" since way back in Bush's day when the Left was claiming there were armies of conspirators rigging voting machines. Now it is the Right claiming there are armies of conspirators rigging voting machines.

I found a lot of cases of operator error. And if you keep watching after all the screaming and noise about each claim of "fraud" dies down, you will, too. Most people stop paying attention, though. They move on, with their belief system reinforced by false information spoon fed to them by partisan hacks.

No, actually, my objection to the, giggle, objection on the left is that we have technology readily available in many high schools that will assure the person who is registered is casting the ballot.

I laugh at those who says there was fraud in the elections. The same elections that installed strong democratic leadership on the national level gave us more Republican Governors than Democratic governors. The guys on the right can't explain that...or does this fraud only show up for federal elections???

My objection is that we have at our fingertips access to make the precious voting system better and the objection is what exactly...there are people who don't want their picture taken? Really?

If you are in favor of having people register to vote, you should be in favor of making that registration mean something; in my view. Right now, Peter Rabbit can pose as me at a polling place or in some places just walk in and cast a ballot depending on the blood sugar level of the polling official and we chalk it up to "well, it didn't make a difference". Maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

The people who man these voting booths are given shoddy training, and the mistakes have been bipartisan. For every "fraud" you hear about where more votes were cast than there were registered voters and a Republican benefited, you can find one where a Democrat benefited from the same fuckup. And it comes back to the operators not knowing what they are doing. There is no malicious intent. It's just plain stupidity and lack of training. The voting machines may be tamper proof, but they are not idiot-proof.

But the partisan hacks never tell you this. You only hear the histrionics, never the follow-up that shows there was no actual fraud. Yet the rubes continue to claim the "fraud" as fact.

There is not one case of voter fraud that anyone can present which ONLY Voter ID is able to prevent or catch. We have an existing system, which if properly managed, is able to stop or prevent almost all fraud.

It astonishes me that people who claim to love the Constitution and our rights, and who claim to hate big government, fail to see the very bureaucratic government which is making these mistakes is the same one they wish to add yet more layers to! They want MORE obstacles and government intervention and bureaucracy placed between themselves and their rights instead of fixing the existing system which can solve all their fears and worries.

Well, on that front, I'm for the Federal Government buying voting devices and providing them to the counties free of charge just to standardize the system.

This is one of many reasons I refer to such people as "faux right wingers".

When I get called a "right winger" I know I'm doing something right. I don't cater to one set of beliefs or the other.

If we're going to go through having people register to vote so they can cast a ballot, we should make that registration actually mean something. If you object to making it mean something, you must object to the injury the current system causes right?

 

[Seawytch]

No, actually, my objection to the, giggle, objection on the left is that we have technology readily available in many high schools that will assure the person who is registered is casting the ballot.

I laugh at those who says there was fraud in the elections. The same elections that installed strong democratic leadership on the national level gave us more Republican Governors than Democratic governors. The guys on the right can't explain that...or does this fraud only show up for federal elections???

My objection is that we have at our fingertips access to make the precious voting system better and the objection is what exactly...there are people who don't want their picture taken? Really?

If you are in favor of having people register to vote, you should be in favor of making that registration mean something; in my view. Right now, Peter Rabbit can pose as me at a polling place or in some places just walk in and cast a ballot depending on the blood sugar level of the polling official and we chalk it up to "well, it didn't make a difference". Maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

What technology at High Schools are you proposing be utilized?

Those opposed to these ID laws fall into two categories in my opinion...those that think it's a way of keeping track of the populace or some such shit (show me your papers) and those, like me, that don't believe we should be disenfranchising hundreds of voters to stop fraud that isn't occurring. When you've got anywhere from 10-40% of the voting populace that don't have the ID required by some of these states, you're way out of balance.

If someone takes the very great risk of identifying themselves as you at the polls (remember, this is in YOUR neighborhood, where people could know you) the likelihood is great that they will get caught and the fines are nothing to laugh at.

We have the technology to keep people from exceeding the speed limit. We could put governors on their cars. We don't...we rely on law enforcement to catch the speeders.

Well, on that front, I'm for the Federal Government buying voting devices and providing them to the counties free of charge just to standardize the system.

Totally down with that....or at LEAST have minimum requirements such as a verifiable paper trail, functional and logic and accuracy testing and then a mandatory post election audit of 1% of the voting precincts at a minimum.

 

[bucs90]

The SC Tea Party folks lied? Shocker. They've shown themselves to be as incompetent and corrupt as any group that has ever governed in this state.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Doesn't matter. Voter ID nuts will still state South Carolina's "fraud" as fact. They have never let truth jor logic get in the way before, so why start now.

Not trying to be a doubting thomas here but there is fraud that is on purpose and there is fraud committed by accident. My polling place chaned a few times while I lived in Texas because I was re-districted into another district. I wasn't commiting fraud but I was in a booth where I didn't belong, casting a ballot. If you were to examine that election, my ballot should have been thrown out.

But let's say that the line I crossed over wasn't a redistricting line but one of city limits. We lived in Houston but two or three blocks away was another city. City ordinances would be on the ballot often; just as they are in Phoenix now. If you live in Glendale or Tucson or Paradise Valley or Tempe, the Phoenix ordinances don't affect you. If you're going to the wrong polling place, you could be voting on ordinances that you should be disallowed from; the folks in Tempe shouldn't be voting to increase the Phoenix city sales tax for example.

I would wager that several people show up at the polling place ignorant of whether it is the "official" polling location or not and are given a ballot that is improper. Since Brewer and McCain and/or Flake are on the ballot, they cast the ballot but down ballot, there are judges, referendums, propositions, etc...

Should people in Ohio be able to vote in Pennsylvania? I don't think so. I would like to have as much assurance as possible that it isn't happening.

This is how it works in CA. If you are registered in the county and go to the wrong polling place, you vote Provisionally and only those parts of the ballot that you are qualified to vote on are counted.

If your name isn't in the roster signifying you are registered in that precinct, for that county, you vote Provisionally. If you aren't registered in the county, your ballot isn't counted.

Correct.

And this is likely how it is in every state, it’s how it works in my state.

If your name is not on the roster signifying you are registered to vote, the voter has the choice to either not vote or cast a provisional ballot. The provisional ballot is counted only after the person voting is confirmed registered – and one can only register by providing ID.

This is why voter ‘fraud’ by attempting to vote as another person is virtually non-existent and a dreadful way to attempt to ‘steal’ an election. No one does it because it doesn’t work.

 

[francoHFW]

No fraud at all anywhere, actually, just bs...

 

[idb]

Why do so many of the people that object to gun-owner registration nevertheless think that voter ID is such a fantastic idea?

 

[Darkwind]

Failed premise.

we put blinders on and went looking, and oh my. We found nothing.

So said the CEO who investigates his own company for defrauding customers.

I'll say it one more time.

Voter ID harms no one, and targets no one. Why? Because when we all have to play from the same set of rules, we all win.

Make up rules for others, and the fraud and crimes is in the motive for wanting to keep the rules from being fair.

Its like the phoney argument about no convictions for voter fraud. No convictions does NOT mean there was no voter fraud.

But........if you have a tendency against fairness.....all I can say is keep getting those dollars for your research, regardless of how invalid the premise is.

 

[candycorn]

No, actually, my objection to the, giggle, objection on the left is that we have technology readily available in many high schools that will assure the person who is registered is casting the ballot.

I laugh at those who says there was fraud in the elections. The same elections that installed strong democratic leadership on the national level gave us more Republican Governors than Democratic governors. The guys on the right can't explain that...or does this fraud only show up for federal elections???

My objection is that we have at our fingertips access to make the precious voting system better and the objection is what exactly...there are people who don't want their picture taken? Really?

If you are in favor of having people register to vote, you should be in favor of making that registration mean something; in my view. Right now, Peter Rabbit can pose as me at a polling place or in some places just walk in and cast a ballot depending on the blood sugar level of the polling official and we chalk it up to "well, it didn't make a difference". Maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

What technology at High Schools are you proposing be utilized?

Picture IDs on Voter Registration Cards; made available to any registrant free of charge.

Those opposed to these ID laws fall into two categories in my opinion...those that think it's a way of keeping track of the populace or some such shit (show me your papers) and those, like me, that don't believe we should be disenfranchising hundreds of voters to stop fraud that isn't occurring. When you've got anywhere from 10-40% of the voting populace that don't have the ID required by some of these states, you're way out of balance.

If someone takes the very great risk of identifying themselves as you at the polls (remember, this is in YOUR neighborhood, where people could know you) the likelihood is great that they will get caught and the fines are nothing to laugh at.

We have the technology to keep people from exceeding the speed limit. We could put governors on their cars. We don't...we rely on law enforcement to catch the speeders.

As pointed out, a party chairwoman in, I believe it was, Palm Beach County Florida changed the course of history by approving a butterfly ballot that resulted in Gore losing the entire state. The stakes are much higher in our elections than cars exceeding the speed limit. I think we should take them seriously.

What is the objection again? People don't want to have their pictures taken....is that it? I mean, you're already registering to vote...right? What extra punishment comes with having a picture taken?

There is no dis-enfranchisement that comes along with having a picture taken...c'mon.

Well, on that front, I'm for the Federal Government buying voting devices and providing them to the counties free of charge just to standardize the system.

Totally down with that....or at LEAST have minimum requirements such as a verifiable paper trail, functional and logic and accuracy testing and then a mandatory post election audit of 1% of the voting precincts at a minimum.

Good ideas too.

 

[candycorn]

Failed premise.

we put blinders on and went looking, and oh my. We found nothing.

So said the CEO who investigates his own company for defrauding customers.

I'll say it one more time.

Voter ID harms no one, and targets no one. Why? Because when we all have to play from the same set of rules, we all win.

Make up rules for others, and the fraud and crimes is in the motive for wanting to keep the rules from being fair.

Its like the phoney argument about no convictions for voter fraud. No convictions does NOT mean there was no voter fraud.

But........if you have a tendency against fairness.....all I can say is keep getting those dollars for your research, regardless of how invalid the premise is.

Totally agree. Just because there were X number of people arrested in any given year doens't mean that there were X numbers of crimes committed. Those who cite statistics for voter fraud are basing it on what exactly...known cases. The nature of a crime is that you want to avoid detection....and I imagine that there are people who are really good at it and people who are really bad at it. Those who are good do it over and over again because they can and those who are not are cited in links like the OP.

Part of my job is credentialing people to staff shelters during emergencies of the Governor declares such an event. I've looked at probably a thousand files, done background checks on many if not most, and tried to have a baseline criteria for whomever we're going to allow to wear our uniform or work on our campuses during such an event. Sometimes I can tell pretty much right away if there is something shady in the past of a responder and sometimes I can't. Having a state issued photographic ID is usually the first hurdle.

Again, I really cannot see who this hurts since we have a registration system in place already. If the argument were to start the registration system in the first place, I wonder who would still be opposed....likely the same people I suppose.

But since we have one...why not make it count?