Zone1 Reparations debate

[whoisit]

Mission buying back freedom of enslaved Africans from their black masters.

[ I hope everyone realizes that we are both losing America while we argue they bring in more allies that don't care about either of us.]

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[sealybobo]

When will Agrica pay for their part in slavery? They have been enslaving their own and others since time began. As have all tribes on earth.
The persecution by many blacks on blacks is horrible. Like 'tire necklaces by Minnie Mandella or drawings of ancient blacks tiring arm, leg on both sides to three's then cutting the tree and splitting them apart. All man can be very evil, period.

If you do something and it causes your neighbor harm. Physical, mental or financial, you owe them. Well we can see that the reason poor blacks in our ghettos are in the situation they are in, is because we put them there. There's no question about it. So it's not their fault. We created that. And our bias and racism keeps them there. Our financial policies. I could go on and on but I won't.

So if we (white society put them in that hole, we owe them until that hole no longer exists. And if you didn't put them in that hole that's okay. You live in a society where whites benefit from this systemic racism.

You seem to be suggesting it's their fault. I too blame them for their current situation sometimes too. I say, "there's nothing we can do about the bad choices you make tomorrow. That's your responsibility" and even thought that's true ultimately, it is also true that we put her father and mother in that ghetto and made them ignorant and of course ignorant people are going to fuck and you guys don't want them to abort, so they have and raise ignorant kids. It's systemic.

So we do things like Affirmative Action. Or let them into college even if we wouldn't let a white with those grades in. Do you know they did that for me? I was an athlete and terrible student. And I suffered for it when I started college. Had to teach myself how to study. I was on probation after my first semester. If I didn't do better they would have kicked me out. So you have to prove yourself once you get in you know. And these things are to make up for the fact white men don't understand bias exists.

 

[whoisit]

If you do something and it causes your neighbor harm. Physical, mental or financial, you owe them. Well we can see that the reason poor blacks in our ghettos are in the situation they are in, is because we put them there. There's no question about it. So it's not their fault. We created that. And our bias and racism keeps them there. Our financial policies. I could go on and on but I won't.

So if we (white society put them in that hole, we owe them until that hole no longer exists. And if you didn't put them in that hole that's okay. You live in a society where whites benefit from this systemic racism.

You seem to be suggesting it's their fault. I too blame them for their current situation sometimes too. I say, "there's nothing we can do about the bad choices you make tomorrow. That's your responsibility" and even thought that's true ultimately, it is also true that we put her father and mother in that ghetto and made them ignorant and of course ignorant people are going to fuck and you guys don't want them to abort, so they have and raise ignorant kids. It's systemic.

So we do things like Affirmative Action. Or let them into college even if we wouldn't let a white with those grades in. Do you know they did that for me? I was an athlete and terrible student. And I suffered for it when I started college. Had to teach myself how to study. I was on probation after my first semester. If I didn't do better they would have kicked me out. So you have to prove yourself once you get in you know. And these things are to make up for the fact white men don't understand bias exists.

History can be helpful for those who care to learn it or from it.

America was not just handed to any of us. We had to travel to get away from serfdom in Europe. So we have all been there as have our own children here in America aka child labor.
Should we also give reperations to the white sharecroppers? They also were treated poorly because of prejudice against ignorant poor. How about coal mone workers who lived in poverty and died young? They wrote songs about then 'Sixteen Tons' and Big Bad John. it took generations for them to join mainstream America too. Many still living in poverty all over the nation.
I guess they deserve it?
Welfare was created to keep people enslaved in ghettos and rural mining and farm towns.
How did people like Ben Carson who grew up poor make it out?
All the rich singers and athletes. They don't go back to help their people in the ghettos, why is that?
The worst thing wrong with most men is they don't care for their kids.

 

[sealybobo]

History can be helpful for those who care to learn it or from it.

America was not just handed to any of us. We had to travel to get away from serfdom in Europe. So we have all been there as have our own children here in America aka child labor.
Should we also give reperations to the white sharecroppers? They also were treated poorly because of prejudice against ignorant poor. How about coal mone workers who lived in poverty and died young? They wrote songs about then 'Sixteen Tons' and Big Bad John. it took generations for them to join mainstream America too. Many still living in poverty all over the nation.
I guess they deserve it?
Welfare was created to keep people enslaved in ghettos and rural mining and farm towns.
How did people like Ben Carson who grew up poor make it out?
All the rich singers and athletes. They don't go back to help their people in the ghettos, why is that?
The worst thing wrong with most men is they don't care for their kids.

Just because a small few get out of the ghetto doesn't prove anything. How did Ben Carson get out? He was BRILLIANT! How did you become successful? You just had to know someone. You got a job from someone you know.

Here's a great example. My father was an immigrant. He had to deal with that same racism. Go back to your own country. But the only time he dealt with it is from ignorant white co workers. He still benefited from being white on the job interview. White enough

And, my father had 2 kids who are now basically completely white. Except for the long Greek last name. But other than that, we have assimilated into white society. This pisses blacks off because they've been in this country for hundreds of years and in 1 generation my immigrant fathers children get to enjoy white privilege. We don't experience the discrimination black people do and they've been in this country for 500 years.

 

[whoisit]

Just because a small few get out of the ghetto doesn't prove anything. How did Ben Carson get out? He was BRILLIANT! How did you become successful? You just had to know someone. You got a job from someone you know.

Here's a great example. My father was an immigrant. He had to deal with that same racism. Go back to your own country. But the only time he dealt with it is from ignorant white co workers. He still benefited from being white on the job interview. White enough

And, my father had 2 kids who are now basically completely white. Except for the long Greek last name. But other than that, we have assimilated into white society. This pisses blacks off because they've been in this country for hundreds of years and in 1 generation my immigrant fathers children get to enjoy white privilege. We don't experience the discrimination black people do and they've been in this country for 500 years.

Blacks have been in Africa for 5000 years so whats your point?
I'm just saying this is not a basic prejudice it is just the way all humans act.
And you did come from a different society and culture. I'm sure you didn't just say hello America. goodbye all I knew. Most immigrants don't assimilate till the second or third generation and some never. You want the benefits of being here but not the responsibility of joining our culture. Not you personally maybe but the majority of immigrants. I like diversity too long as it is fair and not attacking or pointing fingers at me or mine. Why in the world would anyone leave home to come to a better place then try to change that place into what they ran from?

 

[IM2]

Most Americans no doubt know that "reparations" have already been paid to African Americans.

1. It started in the 1960s with affirmative action.

2. Today they are accepted into top universities without any academic requirements.

3. Many employers publicly and proudly have a quota system that ensures a certain number of jobs for African Americans.

4. African Americans are the most numerous ethnicity in TV commercials.

5. African American looters are never prosecuted, and most companies have an official policy of ignoring shoplifters. (Walmart has announced that it may close some stores.)

6. And -- as another contributor to this thread pointed out -- African Americans are the envy of billions (billions!) of people in the developing world.

All of these statements are lies.

1. Whites have benefitted most from AA-white woman.
2. Blacks are required to meet all academic standards for admissions. It has been shown that white legacy do not.
3. Blacks are on TV commercials on white owned networks for products sold by white owned companies.
4.There is no quota system, read Bakke vs. Cal
5. Whites lead every year in larceny, theft, shoplifting etc.
6. White making claims about African Americans are always incorrect.

The quoted post was a bunch of dumb infantile comments that really have nothing to do with reparations.

 

[IM2]

History can be helpful for those who care to learn it or from it.

America was not just handed to any of us. We had to travel to get away from serfdom in Europe. So we have all been there as have our own children here in America aka child labor.
Should we also give reperations to the white sharecroppers? They also were treated poorly because of prejudice against ignorant poor. How about coal mone workers who lived in poverty and died young? They wrote songs about then 'Sixteen Tons' and Big Bad John. it took generations for them to join mainstream America too. Many still living in poverty all over the nation.
I guess they deserve it?
Welfare was created to keep people enslaved in ghettos and rural mining and farm towns.
How did people like Ben Carson who grew up poor make it out?
All the rich singers and athletes. They don't go back to help their people in the ghettos, why is that?
The worst thing wrong with most men is they don't care for their kids.

More right wing white bs.

You are indeed ignorant of history. White sharecroppers were not subject to Jim Crow and white coal miners or their families received reparations for black lung. Is Ben Carson the oonly black person you know?
This is another stupid argument.

Many people claim to have suffered like blacks. Native Americans have a legitimate claim based on the genocide committed by the American government. Chinese were prevented from coming here by written law. Japanese were put into interment camps. Hispanics have suffered from beatings, were cheated out of income and endured the use of chemical agents on members of their population by the government. But others?

I will cite the Irish as one example.

"Upon coming to this country, Irish and blacks competed for the same jobs in the north and were relegated to low-wage, menial labor. Irish and blacks in the north lived in the same communities. Both groups mixed socially, intermarried, and had biracial children. In the early years of immigration, the poor Irish and blacks were thrown together, very much part of the same class competing for the same jobs. In the census of 1850, the term mulatto appears for the first time due primarily to intermarriage between Irish and African Americans. The Irish were often referred to as Negroes turned inside out and Negroes as smoked Irish. Free blacks and Irish were viewed by the Nativists as related, somehow similar, performing the same tasks in society. It was felt that if amalgamation between the races was to happen, it would happen between Irish and blacks. But, ultimately, the Irish made the decision to embrace whiteness, thus becoming part of the system which dominated and oppressed blacks. Although it contradicted their experience back home, it meant freedom here since blackness meant slavery.

An article by a black writer in an 1860 edition of the Liberator explained how the Irish ultimately attained their objectives: “Fifteen or twenty years ago, a Catholic priest in Philadelphia said to the Irish people in that city, ‘You are all poor, and chiefly laborers, the blacks are poor laborers; many of the native whites are laborers; now, if you wish to succeed, you must do everything that they do, no matter how degrading, and do it for less than they can afford to do it for.’

The Irish adopted this plan; they lived on less than the Americans could live upon, and worked for less, and the result is, that nearly all the menial employments are monopolized by the Irish, who now get as good prices as anybody. There were other avenues open to American white men, and though they have suffered much, the chief support of the Irish has come from the places from which we have been crowded.” Once the Irish secured themselves in those jobs, they made sure blacks were kept out. They realized that as long as they continued to work alongside blacks, they would be considered no different.

Later, as Irish became prominent in the labor movement, African Americans were excluded from participation. In fact, one of the primary themes of How the Irish Became White is the way in which left labor historians, such as the highly acclaimed Herbert Gutman, have not paid sufficient attention to the problem of race in the development of the labor movement. And so, we have the tragic story of how one oppressed “race,” Irish Catholics, learned how to collaborate in the oppression of another “race,” Africans in America, in order to secure their place in the white republic. Becoming white meant losing their greenness, i.e., their Irish cultural heritage and the legacy of oppression and discrimination back home.”
-Art McDonald, Ph.D., “How the Irish Became White”

 

[IM2]

When will Agrica pay for their part in slavery? They have been enslaving their own and others since time began. As have all tribes on earth.
The persecution by many blacks on blacks is horrible. Like 'tire necklaces by Minnie Mandella or drawings of ancient blacks tiring arm, leg on both sides to three's then cutting the tree and splitting them apart. All man can be very evil, period.

Africa is responsible for about 389,000 slaves. if you want to be dishonest and exclude the way whites used guns, rifles and cannnons as gifts to certain tribes in return for captives. That's how many Afriiican ended up in America. By the civil war there were 4 million. White slavers bred blacks like cattle and sold them. They produced over 3.6 million additional slaves. Africa had nothing to do with this or the fact whites made slavery legal in America.

It time right wing whites quit being disingenuous and accepted responsibility.

Africans did not create Jim Crow after slavery, nor are the responsible for modern anti black racism. To argue about reparations and slavery as if everything ended after slavery which whites such as yourself are doing is disingenuous.

 

[whoisit]

Africa is responsible for about 389,000 slaves. if you want to be dishonest and exclude the way whites used guns, rifles and cannnons as gifts to certain tribes in return for captives. That's how many Afriiican ended up in America. By the civil war there were 4 million. White slavers bred blacks like cattle and sold them. They produced over 3.6 million additional slaves. Africa had nothing to do with this or the fact whites made slavery legal in America.

It time right wing whites quit being disingenuous and accepted responsibility.

Africans did not create Jim Crow after slavery, nor are the responsible for modern anti black racism. To argue about reparations and slavery as if everything ended after slavery which whites such as yourself are doing is disingenuous.

No sense in this debate, since being wrong makes many victims and that can be used for all kinds of perks.
No honest conversation can come out of this.
All the things going on today and all people can do is attack and blame others.
I didn't realize that some have never done anything wrong till tonight.

 

[IM2]

No sense in this debate, since being wrong makes many victims and that can be used for all kinds of perks.
No honest conversation can come out of this.
All the things going on today and all people can do is attack and blame others.
I didn't realize that some have never done anything wrong till tonight.

The reality of this discussion is that you are trying to remove whites from any responsibility and that you limit the reparations demands only to slavery. Slavery did not end anything and that's the trouble with arguments those like you try making.

 

[whoisit]

The reality of this discussion is that you are trying to remove whites from any responsibility and that you limit the reparations demands only to slavery. Slavery did not end anything and that's the trouble with arguments those like you try making.

IM2,I'm going to study my garden and attack more vines, do you have a garden? It will be a lot better conversation than this one.

 

[IM2]

IM2,I'm going to study my garden and attack more vines, do you have a garden? It will be a lot better conversation than this one.

You're white and stuck on stupid. This is about the 500th thread made by someone white crying about reparations.

 

[USAF 2023]

The reality of this discussion is that you are trying to remove whites from any responsibility and that you limit the reparations demands only to slavery. Slavery did not end anything and that's the trouble with arguments those like you try making.

The argument for “ reparations “ are descendants from Slavery . According to you EVERY Black person deserves them; not true, and not going to happen

 

[whoisit]

You're white and stuck on stupid. This is about the 500th thread made by someone white crying about reparations.

Calling me names will not win you any debate.

 

[IM2]

The argument for “ reparations “ are descendants from Slavery . According to you EVERY Black person deserves them; not true, and not going to happen

No, that is not the argument. I think I would know what the argument is better than you.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSE.

(a) Findings.—The Congress finds that—
(1) approximately 4,000,000 Africans and their descendants were enslaved in the United States and colonies that became the United States from 1619 to 1865;

(2) the institution of slavery was constitutionally and statutorily sanctioned by the Government of the United States from 1789 through 1865;

(3) the slavery that flourished in the United States constituted an immoral and inhumane deprivation of Africans’ life, liberty, African citizenship rights, and cultural heritage, and denied them the fruits of their own labor;

(4) a preponderance of scholarly, legal, community evidentiary documentation and popular culture markers constitute the basis for inquiry into the on-going effects of the institution of slavery and its legacy of persistent systemic structures of discrimination on living African-Americans and society in the United States; and

(5) following the abolition of slavery the United States Government, at the Federal, State, and local level, continued to perpetuate, condone and often profit from practices that continued to brutalize and disadvantage African-Americans, including share cropping, convict leasing, Jim Crow, redlining, unequal education, and disproportionate treatment at the hands of the criminal justice system; and

(6) as a result of the historic and continued discrimination, African-Americans continue to suffer debilitating economic, educational, and health hardships including but not limited to having nearly 1,000,000 black people incarcerated; an unemployment rate more than twice the current white unemployment rate; and an average of less than 1⁄16 of the wealth of white families, a disparity which has worsened, not improved over time.

(b) Purpose.—The purpose of this Act is to establish a commission to study and develop Reparation proposals for African-Americans as a result of—

(1) the institution of slavery, including both the Trans-Atlantic and the domestic “trade” which existed from 1565 in colonial Florida and from 1619 through 1865 within the other colonies that became the United States, and which included the Federal and State governments which constitutionally and statutorily supported the institution of slavery;

(2) the de jure and de facto discrimination against freed slaves and their descendants from the end of the Civil War to the present, including economic, political, educational, and social discrimination;
(3) the lingering negative effects of the institution of slavery and the discrimination described in paragraphs (1) and (2) on living African-Americans and on society in the United States;

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/40/text

 

[IM2]

The opposition to black reparations is based on sheer racist hatred. Precedents have been set as other groups who have been harmed by the government have received reparations. As for the tired worn out excuse of “why should I pay for something I did not do,” here is an example of reparations made in modern times for things done by past generations.

I am quite sure no one living in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government made the Fort Laramie treaty with the Sioux Nation or were participants in Custers violation of that treaty. Nor were they alive when President Grant decided it was OK to let settlers and people prospecting for gold tresspass into land promised to the Sioux thereby violating the treaty. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to take the land from the Sioux by military force. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to cut off supplies they promised the Sioux as condition for their surrender after whipping the U.S. Army at The Battle of Little Bighorn. But in 1980, the government of the United States decided reparations were due to the Sioux Nation for what was done to them in the 1800’s. They awarded the Sioux nation 105 million dollars. Now to any Sioux Nation brothers and sisters here in this forum, let me say that money is just a pittance of what you are truly owed, but my point here is to render the excuses made in opposition to reparations for blacks to what it is, the racist refusal to take responsibility for what this government has done to black citizens of this nation.

 

[USAF 2023]

No, that is not the argument. I think I would know what the argument is better than you.

View attachment 740751
SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSE.

(a) Findings.—The Congress finds that—
(1) approximately 4,000,000 Africans and their descendants were enslaved in the United States and colonies that became the United States from 1619 to 1865;

(2) the institution of slavery was constitutionally and statutorily sanctioned by the Government of the United States from 1789 through 1865;

(3) the slavery that flourished in the United States constituted an immoral and inhumane deprivation of Africans’ life, liberty, African citizenship rights, and cultural heritage, and denied them the fruits of their own labor;

(4) a preponderance of scholarly, legal, community evidentiary documentation and popular culture markers constitute the basis for inquiry into the on-going effects of the institution of slavery and its legacy of persistent systemic structures of discrimination on living African-Americans and society in the United States; and

(5) following the abolition of slavery the United States Government, at the Federal, State, and local level, continued to perpetuate, condone and often profit from practices that continued to brutalize and disadvantage African-Americans, including share cropping, convict leasing, Jim Crow, redlining, unequal education, and disproportionate treatment at the hands of the criminal justice system; and

(6) as a result of the historic and continued discrimination, African-Americans continue to suffer debilitating economic, educational, and health hardships including but not limited to having nearly 1,000,000 black people incarcerated; an unemployment rate more than twice the current white unemployment rate; and an average of less than 1⁄16 of the wealth of white families, a disparity which has worsened, not improved over time.

(b) Purpose.—The purpose of this Act is to establish a commission to study and develop Reparation proposals for African-Americans as a result of—

(1) the institution of slavery, including both the Trans-Atlantic and the domestic “trade” which existed from 1565 in colonial Florida and from 1619 through 1865 within the other colonies that became the United States, and which included the Federal and State governments which constitutionally and statutorily supported the institution of slavery;

(2) the de jure and de facto discrimination against freed slaves and their descendants from the end of the Civil War to the present, including economic, political, educational, and social discrimination;
(3) the lingering negative effects of the institution of slavery and the discrimination described in paragraphs (1) and (2) on living African-Americans and on society in the United States;

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/40/text

I know Al the above. However to outrightly say that EVERY Black American is just ridiculous and will never happen

No, that is not the argument. I think I would know what the argument is better than you.

View attachment 740751
SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSE.

(a) Findings.—The Congress finds that—
(1) approximately 4,000,000 Africans and their descendants were enslaved in the United States and colonies that became the United States from 1619 to 1865;

(2) the institution of slavery was constitutionally and statutorily sanctioned by the Government of the United States from 1789 through 1865;

(3) the slavery that flourished in the United States constituted an immoral and inhumane deprivation of Africans’ life, liberty, African citizenship rights, and cultural heritage, and denied them the fruits of their own labor;

(4) a preponderance of scholarly, legal, community evidentiary documentation and popular culture markers constitute the basis for inquiry into the on-going effects of the institution of slavery and its legacy of persistent systemic structures of discrimination on living African-Americans and society in the United States; and

(5) following the abolition of slavery the United States Government, at the Federal, State, and local level, continued to perpetuate, condone and often profit from practices that continued to brutalize and disadvantage African-Americans, including share cropping, convict leasing, Jim Crow, redlining, unequal education, and disproportionate treatment at the hands of the criminal justice system; and

(6) as a result of the historic and continued discrimination, African-Americans continue to suffer debilitating economic, educational, and health hardships including but not limited to having nearly 1,000,000 black people incarcerated; an unemployment rate more than twice the current white unemployment rate; and an average of less than 1⁄16 of the wealth of white families, a disparity which has worsened, not improved over time.

(b) Purpose.—The purpose of this Act is to establish a commission to study and develop Reparation proposals for African-Americans as a result of—

(1) the institution of slavery, including both the Trans-Atlantic and the domestic “trade” which existed from 1565 in colonial Florida and from 1619 through 1865 within the other colonies that became the United States, and which included the Federal and State governments which constitutionally and statutorily supported the institution of slavery;

(2) the de jure and de facto discrimination against freed slaves and their descendants from the end of the Civil War to the present, including economic, political, educational, and social discrimination;
(3) the lingering negative effects of the institution of slavery and the discrimination described in paragraphs (1) and (2) on living African-Americans and on society in the United States;

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/40/text

i understand the above. However to say that EVERY Black Person is entitled is ridiculous and will never happen

 

[jc456]

There were about 400,000 Africans shipped to America. By 1860 there were 4 million. 3.6 million blacks were enslaved and Africa had nothing to do with it. Now this is the thousandth thread by some right wing white dolt who wants to issue their opinion. What happened to blacks here was dues to laws made at every level of government and the laws were altered and modified after slavery. The case for reparations is against the governments of this nation and if you are not a member of a governing body or agency, then you really have nothing to say because you will not be making the decision.

How many Americans today had anything to do with slavery

 

[jc456]

If you do something and it causes your neighbor harm. Physical, mental or financial, you owe them

Who alive today did anything to blacks?

 

[IM2]

Who alive today did anything to blacks?

Let's start with this admission from Flash.

“I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, I was an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”

Since the Fortune 50 company I worked for had a stupid “affirmative action” hiring policies I never mentioned it to anybody and I always got away with it. A couple of times I was instructed to improve my departmental “diversity” demographics but I always ignored it and never got into any trouble. My stereotype is that anybody with a stupid ghetto Black ethnic name is probably worthless. I could have been wrong a couple of times but I was also probably right 99% of the time. Glad I did it. I would do it again.”

Don't lie and pretend this is the only white person in America that has done this or is doing it now.