Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020

[Rustic]

I had it wrong, the panel farm was blocked because it would inconvenience sheep. SHEEECH !!!!!

California Blocks Huge Solar Power Plant To Protect Sheep

Now, look at the vegitation. It has grass for grazing. It can be used by sheep or cattle. If they go a bit deeper into the Mojave Desert where it's very arid, the grass isn't there, the water isn't there, nothing is there. It's barren and ideal for giant Solar Farms. But if you put them where there is vegitation then you are doing something very wrong. It's not just incoveniencing sheep, it's hurting meat production along with wild life of all kinds. You can release it till your blue in the face but misusing it like that is just plain wrong when there are places deeper in Mojave that you can use just as well for the same purpose and no one really cares. It looks like someone got greedy and paid someone off to try and get it put there. Sheep don't graze on alkali flats and neither does anything else.

 

[Rustic]

• Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep (O. c. canadensis) – occupying the U.S. and Canadian Rocky Mountains, and the Northwestern United States.
• Sierra Nevada bighorn sheep (O. c. sierrae) – formerly California bighorn sheep,[15] a genetically distinct subspecies that only occurs in the Sierra Nevada in California. However, historic observer records suggest that bighorn sheep may have ranged as far west as the California Coastal Ranges which are contiguous to the Sierra Nevada via the Transverse Ranges. An account of "wild sheep" in the vicinity of the Mission San Antonio near Jolon, California and the mountains around San Francisco Bay dates to circa 1769.[17]
• Desert bighorn sheep (O. c. nelsoni) – occurring throughout the desert regions of the Southwestern United States and Northwestern Mexico. The 2016 genetics study suggested more modest divergence of this desert bighorn sheep into three lineages consistent with the earlier work of Cowan: Nelson's (O. c. nelsoni), Mexican (O. c. mexicana), and Peninsular (O. c. cremnobates). These three lineages occupy desert biomes that vary significantly in climate, suggesting exposure to different selection regimens.[16]

In addition, two populations are currently considered endangered by the United States government:[18]

• Sierra Nevada bighorn sheep (O. c. sierrae),
• Peninsular bighorn sheep, a distinct population segment of desert bighorn sheep (O. c. nelsoni)

 

[Daryl Hunt]

• Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep (O. c. canadensis) – occupying the U.S. and Canadian Rocky Mountains, and the Northwestern United States.
• Sierra Nevada bighorn sheep (O. c. sierrae) – formerly California bighorn sheep,[15] a genetically distinct subspecies that only occurs in the Sierra Nevada in California. However, historic observer records suggest that bighorn sheep may have ranged as far west as the California Coastal Ranges which are contiguous to the Sierra Nevada via the Transverse Ranges. An account of "wild sheep" in the vicinity of the Mission San Antonio near Jolon, California and the mountains around San Francisco Bay dates to circa 1769.[17]
• Desert bighorn sheep (O. c. nelsoni) – occurring throughout the desert regions of the Southwestern United States and Northwestern Mexico. The 2016 genetics study suggested more modest divergence of this desert bighorn sheep into three lineages consistent with the earlier work of Cowan: Nelson's (O. c. nelsoni), Mexican (O. c. mexicana), and Peninsular (O. c. cremnobates). These three lineages occupy desert biomes that vary significantly in climate, suggesting exposure to different selection regimens.[16]

In addition, two populations are currently considered endangered by the United States government:[18]

• Sierra Nevada bighorn sheep (O. c. sierrae),
• Peninsular bighorn sheep, a distinct population segment of desert bighorn sheep (O. c. nelsoni)

We are stewards of the land. We take what only what the land can afford to give and give back what it can afford to take back.

One summer, I worked as an Irrigator on a High Country Ranch. My job was to break in new grazing land with water. And to get the water to new pasture land without disturbing the land. I went to places that many would kill to go to or others would be terrified to go to. It had to be done in a way that 1 year later, the water flowed like it was done by mother nature and there was no sign of human hands. The only sign I was there was the rich, lush grass for grazing used by cattle, deer, elk, mountain sheep and more. One day, we had a group of Congress people come to the ranch. I was assigned to give them a trail ride. I was given very specific instructions of where to take them. I took them where we knew there would be at least a couple of deer that got tangled up in a barbed wire fence. I was also told only to answer questions with short specific answers. You flatlanders would think that it was the barbed wire fence that was the problem. You would be wrong. A healthy Deer can clear a 7 foot fence. The 4 foot fence was not an obstacle for a healthy deer. But a starving one, it was a problem. I explained that this was the reason we had hunting so that we could manage the deer population so that the deer would have enough to eat. I didn't explain to them that we were actually feeding the Wildlife out of our own pockets when the winters were quite rugged because they didn't ask.

Some of the staunchest conservatives are also some of the best conservationists and always have been. We are stewards of our lands.

 

[karpenter]

its called planning ahead

It Called:
Faith In Fantasy

Wind Farms Are DC Current
But You Know That
And There Is No Way To Store The Energy
You Know That Too
It's Trickle Fed To AC Conversion In Carbon Power Plants
Along With The Voltage Drops Over Distance
That's Why Edison's DC Generators Lost To AC
Everyone Knows That

 

[Lesh]

its called planning ahead

It Called:
Faith In Fantasy

Wind Farms Are DC Current
But You Know That
And There Is No Way To Store The Energy
You Know That Too
It's Trickle Fed To AC Conversion In Carbon Power Plants
Along With The Voltage Drops Over Distance
That's Why Edison's DC Generators Lost To AC
Everyone Knows That

Nearly all small wind turbines use relatively simple permanent magnetalternators, which employ a rotating rotor with some number of permanent magnets, which induce an electromotive force in the coils of the nonmoving stator. This type of design produces AC quite naturally, but because the wind turbine’s rate of rotation changes with wind speed and electrical load, the sine wave of the current constantly varies in both frequency and amplitude (voltage).

The advantage of this type of design, instead of using a DC generator is that alternators do not require a commutator mechanism, which has brushes usually made out of graphite that require periodic replacement, add friction, and create graphite residue as the brushes wear down.

This type of AC is very different than the tightly controlled AC that is used for commercial power and is called wild power.

To make use of wild power, it is necessary to tame or condition it to make it useful. One way is to convert the raw AC into DC by passing it through a bridge rectifier. From there, further conditioning can be performed using a variety of active and passive circuits and/or a battery bank that absorbs and smooths the DC power.



DC power is run through an inverter where it makes sense to do so.

WHen you get your electrical engineering degree...get back to us

 

[Daryl Hunt]

its called planning ahead

It Called:
Faith In Fantasy

Wind Farms Are DC Current
But You Know That
And There Is No Way To Store The Energy
You Know That Too
It's Trickle Fed To AC Conversion In Carbon Power Plants
Along With The Voltage Drops Over Distance
That's Why Edison's DC Generators Lost To AC
Everyone Knows That

I will type slowly and use small words.

Most Wind Farms are AC current. The reason for this is that no matter what the RPM is, they will put out a constant power. What will change is the Amps, not the volts. This is why the Generators in cars were replaced by alternators. Alternators are more efficent. And it's quite easy to convert AC into DC and back again so that the excess power can be stored in batteries or other storage devices. Even in electric vehicles, most motors are AC with DC storage. I work with the DC to DC and I'll tell you, the AC is much better in heavier applications.

 

[karpenter]

I will type slowly and use small words.

Most Wind Farms are AC current. The reason for this is that no matter what the RPM is, they will put out a constant power. What will change is the Amps, not the volts. This is why the Generators in cars were replaced by alternators. Alternators are more efficent. And it's quite easy to convert AC into DC and back again so that the excess power can be stored in batteries or other storage devices. Even in electric vehicles, most motors are AC with DC storage. I work with the DC to DC and I'll tell you, the AC is much better in heavier applications.

Wind Farms Don't Produce More Than 6-7% Efficiency Over The Year
They Will Never Be More Than A Heavily Subsidised
Minor Supplement To The Electrical Grid

 

[Pilot1]

Wind turbines are high maintenance, high cost of operations units that do not produce electricity efficiently. That is why even after huge government subsidies they don't account for much electricity generation at all. It is another feel good measure.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Tesla Model 3 = #1 Best Selling Car In The US (In Revenue)

Tesla Model 3 = #1 Best Selling Car In The US (In Revenue) | CleanTechnica

Best selling car, if SUVs and Trucks are excluded. Best selling car in revenue. Not in units.

In other words, trash.

 

[Lesh]

Earlier this month, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) released the latest iteration of its annual Wind Technologies Market Report, which pulls together a wealth of data to track trends in the cost, performance, and growth of wind energy.

The report found that U.S. wind energy will continue to be one of the lowest cost electricity generation technologies available, with the long-term wind electricity price available through a power purchase agreement coming in at about half the expected cost of just running a natural gas power plant.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Earlier this month, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) released the latest iteration of its annual Wind Technologies Market Report, which pulls together a wealth of data to track trends in the cost, performance, and growth of wind energy.

The report found that U.S. wind energy will continue to be one of the lowest cost electricity generation technologies available, with the long-term wind electricity price available through a power purchase agreement coming in at about half the expected cost of just running a natural gas power plant.

The report found that U.S. wind energy will continue to be one of the lowest cost electricity generation technologies available, with the long-term wind electricity price available through a power purchase agreement coming in at about half the expected cost of just running a natural gas power plant.

That's excellent news!!

Who needs consistent, reliable electricity anymore?

 

[Avatar4321]

Then the market will bear that out. No need for us to do anything

 

[Pilot1]

For each unit of wind and solar built a fossil fuel, nuke, or hydro (which are all reliable) source needs to be created as the wind doesn't always blow, nor does the sun shine, so they aren't reliable.

 

[Lesh]

Then the market will bear that out. No need for us to do anything

Because infra sructure gets built by itself...right?

Like nuke plants...right?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I will type slowly and use small words.

Most Wind Farms are AC current. The reason for this is that no matter what the RPM is, they will put out a constant power. What will change is the Amps, not the volts. This is why the Generators in cars were replaced by alternators. Alternators are more efficent. And it's quite easy to convert AC into DC and back again so that the excess power can be stored in batteries or other storage devices. Even in electric vehicles, most motors are AC with DC storage. I work with the DC to DC and I'll tell you, the AC is much better in heavier applications.

Wind Farms Don't Produce More Than 6-7% Efficiency Over The Year
They Will Never Be More Than A Heavily Subsidised
Minor Supplement To The Electrical Grid

Once they are built, they produce electricity. Just like Solar farms produce electricity. I use Montrose Colorado as an example. Right now, the electric supplier they have produces electricity from Coal, Oil and NG. There is a company that wants to take over the contract that has all of the above including wind and solar and their output is cheaper than the one without The Solar and Wind. Of course, that new company is based out of New Mexico where they have huge out of the way solar farms and huge out of the way Wind Farms and the new company doesn't use coal or oil but it does use NG. What's sad is, right up the road is two gigantic Hydro Dams that the electricity is spoken for mostly out of state.

 

[22lcidw]

The article says alternate energy will be CHEAPER than fossil fuels by 2020.

It does not say alternate energy will REPLACE fossil fuels by 2020.

Big difference.

It will take a while, but we will hopefully get there eventually.

What a load of bull? If it was competitive it would be used massively. We should use current energy while increasing alternate energy as it competes in sense. We can also use benign energy efficiency products. Are 30 year shingles better then 20 year shingles for efficiency? Then use it. Are double paned and even triple paned windows much ore efficient then single paned windows? Then use it. The most efficient A/C/Heating units must be used if better then what is the minimum required now. Push that with no games. Florida increased protection and efficiency massively after Homestead on new construction. But could have done better. Massively better. After this hurricane on the panhandle as part of improving infrastructure here, massive increased protection and efficiency is needed as to address the house survivabiity problem and the energy usage problem.

 

[22lcidw]

Does it really work?

Our $20 trillion, high tech economy says yes.

Or was it the only thing we had?

We had wood and whale oil before fossil fuels. Water wheels and horses.
In India they still burn cow dung.
Hard to run a modern economy with just those.

It's the only thing we had. YOu can try and throw BS into the ballgame all you want. But to progress forward, you can't use the things that keep you at the same pace. Petro Products propelled us forward.

But to progress forward, you can't use the things that keep you at the same pace.

Huh? We built cars, didn't stop using horses. Built planes, didn't stop using cars.
If you want electric cars without powering them with fossil fuel generators, push for more nuclear.
Pushing for solar and wind, both small scale and unreliable, over large scale and dependable nuclear is stupid.

Who said they are unreliable. As it stands right now, even Harley Davidson is turning out an Electric Motorcycle with quite a range. Yes, it's range will be in an excess of 100 miles like other Electric Motorcycles already being made. It's performance will be mind blowing. It begins production in January. And as batteries become available, it's range should triple as the new solid state batteries are made available. Charging time on normal house current, 4 hours. Charging time on 220, about 1 hour. With the solid state batteries, it's range should be around 400 miles. And I don't suggest anyone ride a Motor Cycle for more than that on any given day whether it's gas or any other power. Even so, most sport rides are less than 100 miles anyway so no big thing. And since the same size of bike gets right around 35mpg, the new Electric HD will be getting the equiv of about 400 mpg. The Cost? About the same as any other full tilt HD. And this is their first try. Does that mean the old HD Hog will go out of style? Not hardly. But it will attract a younger generation that is being lost to HD.

No, we didn't stop using horses. But horses have long since become more of a curiosity than a necessity. The Toys of the Rich. When I grew up, we used horses. But that style of ranching is long dead and gone since it's found that stockyards can produce meat much cheaper and quicker. You will still find horses on ranches in Florida and Texas but the real work horses there are Helicopters and motorbikes. You don't have to feed a Motorbike when you aren't using it. And even a horse breaks down sometimes. Mechanical things have all but replaced the horses.

It took it a long time to replace the horse. It didn't take very long to replace the horse and buggy though. WWI, everyone went in with Cavalry and horse drawn supply routes. The Winners were the rist ones to mechanize. All the way to the end, Germany and Russia were still using horse drawn supply routes while the Brits, French and Americans had transferred to Mechanized methods. The outcome was, shortly after that, the horse drawn milk carts started to disappear. Are you aware that before cars were introduced into NYC, they actually had a worse pollution problem from horses than they do with cars today? While the Cars give off Carbon Monoxide and more, the Horses give off Methane and leave a lot of really sticky smelly crap that has to be scooped up on a daily basis. As bad as Cars are, they were a huge step in the right direction over horses in an Urban area.

What is going to happen when the Electro Magnetic boards grow into major transportation. Yes, Shirley, the electro Magnetic Hover Board exists. What happens when they scale it up? Use your imagination here. No road friction. Roads are not some kind of ferrous metal strips and it takes very little power to propel the vehicle forward. And what happens to Airlines when you do the same thing inside of an enclosed tube. Both would use induction motors to for forward propulsion and be battery powered. What happens to your gas guzzler and noxious jet fuel spewer all of a sudden then? You get in a transport in Denver, accelerate to 600 mph smoothly, stop at KC, St Louis, Chicago, and parts in between, and get out in Baltimore MD in a matter of hours. Read a book, Walk around, watch a movie, play a video game, eat a meal and you never even feel vibration on the journey. And no noise at all. 10 years ago, these were dreams of SCIFI. But today, it's goals they are working towards. All from what is not thought to be a toy. BTW, that toy was the brain child of an Architect who was trying to find a way to disconnect buildings from the ground during an earthquake. And you can thank Marty McFly a bit I would imagine.

All things come to an end. All things have their own time. And when that time passes, all things must give way to their replacements.

Who said they are unreliable.

Reality.

As it stands right now, even Harley Davidson is turning out an Electric Motorcycle with quite a range.

So what? We're discussing power generation.

Easy answer. In less than 10 years, Fusion Generators will be coming on line making more power cheaper than and more plentiful than the Coal, OIl and NG fired Electrical Plants with almost Zero Pollution. This type of power pretty much opens the Heavens and the Earth for power including Outerspace Travel at remarkable speeds. It moves Electric Power to the very top of the list for power when you couple it with the solid state batteries coming on line right around 2025.

Let's take a look at a Turbofan engine. Most of it's thrust doesn't come from the exhaust. It comes from the fans. It's a fancy ducted series of fans. You don't really need that much exhaust thrust until you exceed the speed that the fan can no longer support the thrust needed to propel it forward. And that happens somewhere just over Mach 1. That means, an electric version can propel a liner at 600 mph just like a jet powered one can if you have efficient enough motors and batteries. Now, that's a long time off. But it will come sooner or later. Or we may just replace the 600 mph liner with a 600 mph electro magnetic tube. You may only need the JP powered vehicle to go over long stretches of water. I'll give it till 2050 on that prediction. It's coming.

But for cars, gas powered cars won't fare so well in the short term. Electrics are coming on way too fast. Tesla gets about 330 mile range out of their cars on eco mode now and that is with lipo4 batteries. Teslas biggest mistake right now is that they don't have enough assembly lines but that will change soon. Of course, GM, Ford, Honda and all the others are investing billions into electric cars. With the advent of the Fusion Power, by 2030, the gas powered car will be extinct much like the Horse and Buggy. You'll be sitting with your Grand Kids around you telling them stories about Gas Powered Cars and they will expect you to start the story with "Once Upon a Time".

You must read Popular Science and Popular Mechanics! All of those things are going to happen, right! When it comes to cars, I believe there could have been massive gas/battery improvements in hybrid form. But we want to move from gas to electric. Those airlines are not going to use technology that is not proven. Fusion Power! Investors want profits. If Fusion reduced our power consumption costs big time thy do not get their profits. If government controlled it the costs would massively increased. There are people who believe that Tesla was smarter then Edison. But Edison provided a way for profits by investors. Tesla died impoverished.

 

[Pilot1]

Because infra sructure gets built by itself...right?

Like nuke plants...right?

No the private sector builds it when it is ALLOWED. Where do you see new nuke plants, or refineries being allowed to be built? If it makes economic sense, and government allows it, then it will be built.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The article says alternate energy will be CHEAPER than fossil fuels by 2020.

It does not say alternate energy will REPLACE fossil fuels by 2020.

Big difference.

It will take a while, but we will hopefully get there eventually.

What a load of bull? If it was competitive it would be used massively. We should use current energy while increasing alternate energy as it competes in sense. We can also use benign energy efficiency products. Are 30 year shingles better then 20 year shingles for efficiency? Then use it. Are double paned and even triple paned windows much ore efficient then single paned windows? Then use it. The most efficient A/C/Heating units must be used if better then what is the minimum required now. Push that with no games. Florida increased protection and efficiency massively after Homestead on new construction. But could have done better. Massively better. After this hurricane on the panhandle as part of improving infrastructure here, massive increased protection and efficiency is needed as to address the house survivabiity problem and the energy usage problem.

hate to break it to you but it's already cheaper. Solar and Wind, once the investment costs are recouped, the only cost is maintenance at that point. Many of the south western fields have already recouped their losses and are making about 20% of the power in those areas. Some cities have a zero energy rating. Meaning they produce the same as they use but just in case, they are hooked into the grid. On some days, they take out of the grid and other days, they put back into the grid. It evens out. And I am not talking about California either so turn your fruitcake traps off on that one. I am talking about a Republican ran city in Texas. There are others. You don't have to a Democrat to push Solar and Wind. A Fiscal Conservative will also see the benefits. I can't help it that you people are fiscally stupid.

 

[Aponi]

it means end of states gas-stations : KSA, "Russia", all Gulf states , etc. how our world without states gas-stations will be look like?

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020,
The organisation – which has more than 150 member countries – says the cost of generating power from onshore wind has fallen by around 23% since 2010 while the cost of solar photovoltaic (PV) electricity has fallen by 73% in that time. With further price falls expected for these and other green energy options, IRENA says all renewable energy technologies should be competitive on price with fossil fuels by 2020.Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH.

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020, Report Claims

Your a moron