Zone1 Remember Your Death

[BackAgain]

For those who don't believe in Hell

There is a video on You Tube called "Man shot, saw Hell"

a gang member was shot by another member and ... went to a horrible place.. was revived by medical staff..

What he saw (assuming he saw anything at all) could be the mere nightmare of Hell he was taught to believe in:

and (upon being almost dead) he saw what he feared.

Let’s say that — instead of him being a witness to what he allegedly saw before being resuscitated — I am the witness. And let’s say that I tell you that I saw and spoke with Jesus and that He told me that all of Christian philosophy was actually just His spin on some other religions teach and so forth?

Does that make it true?

 

[MarathonMike]

Think of it more as a reflection. It is something that will happen. What is important to you now?

Biological Life is a gift and each day should be enjoyed.

 

[forkintheroad7]

What he saw (assuming he saw anything at all) could be the mere nightmare of Hell he was taught to believe in:

and (upon being almost dead) he saw what he feared.

Let’s say that — instead of him being a witness to what he allegedly saw before being resuscitated — I am the witness. And let’s say that I tell you that I saw and spoke with Jesus and that He told me that all of Christian philosophy was actually just His spin on some other religions teach and so forth?

Does that make it true?

Well, you are rationalizing your own beliefs.... If you don't care about being in an eternity of separation from God and all that is good and just want to believe what you naturally at this time believe... that's your choice

I cannot help you

 

[forkintheroad7]

Biological Life is a gift and each day should be enjoyed.

Nowhwere in Scripture or in Church teaching (Jesus founded only ONE Church) does it say we are here to enjoy life...

Far from it. Ive read the entire Bible twice through and there is great misery throughout... all the wars Israel had to fight just to survive as a nation ( the chosen people)... God helped them in those wars but when they sinned, He withheld his help... and I could go on and on... At one point the Israelites (the Macchabees, to be exact) fought not so much for their families but for the holy temple where God communicated w/ them...

Even though God did intervene for the Macchabees, in miraculous ways.. the point is: they were not enjoying life much of the time because of all the healthen nations who wanted to destroy them and wouldn't let them live in peace...

Macchabees 1 and 2 are Books in the Catholic Bible, not found in the protestant ones. Luther removed them.

 

[ding]

Think of it more as a reflection. It is something that will happen. What is important to you now?

I would think the value in remembering one’s death is to remind him to live. Both life and death are imminent. The only real question is how one does them. I hope to do both well.

 

[MarathonMike]

Nowhwere in Scripture or in Church teaching (Jesus founded only ONE Church) does it say we are here to enjoy life...

Far from it. Ive read the entire Bible twice through and there is great misery throughout... all the wars Israel had to fight just to survive as a nation ( the chosen people)... God helped them in those wars but when they sinned, He withheld his help... and I could go on and on... At one point the Israelites (the Macchabees, to be exact) fought not so much for their families but for the holy temple where God communicated w/ them...

Even though God did intervene for the Macchabees, in miraculous ways.. the point is: they were not enjoying life much of the time because of all the healthen nations who wanted to destroy them and wouldn't let them live in peace...

Americans are so spoiled

Interesting I was raised in a devout Christian Family and went to Church every Sunday for many years. I don't recall a single time when I was told "Your life must be full of misery because God said so!"

 

[forkintheroad7]

Interesting I was raised in a devout Christian Family and went to Church every Sunday for many years. I don't recall a single time when I was told "Your life must be full of misery because God said so!"

whatever

 

[BackAgain]

Well, you are rationalizing your own beliefs.... If you don't care about being in an eternity of separation from God and all that is good and just want to believe what you naturally at this time believe... that's your choice

I cannot help you

I don’t recall asking for your help. And I happen not believe in an eternity of separation from God.

And free will is supposedly a gift from God, I therefore don’t need your permission to believe in what I choose to believe and reject the rest. Similarly, I have no desire to persuade you to reject any part of your beliefs.

 

[forkintheroad7]

I don’t recall asking for your help. And I happen not believe in an eternity of separation from God.

And free will is supposedly a gift from God, I therefore don’t need your permission to believe in what I choose to believe and reject the rest. Similarly, I have no desire to persuade you to reject any part of your beliefs.

I don't recall saying that you asked for my help...

You don't believe in Hell. God gives you the freedom to believe whatever you want. He also gives you the freedom to end up in Hell whether you believe in what He has revealed or not...

I have read the entire Bible twice through and it is chock full of scenarios in which God's wrath abounds... just totally abounds.. In Ezechiel, God says to the prophets he will destroy this city and that... many cities are mentioned. And those cities were indeed destroyed, either because they belonged to the Jews who at that time were worshiping false gods (they tended to do that a lot) or the cities were those of pagans who rejoiced when "the Hebrew God" destroyed their enemies in the Jewish cities...

God's wrath against sin is real. I've experienced it in my own life---

No one "is saved." Some "WILL BE saved" (exact scripture words) but no one IS saved until God saves that person... and He will not save those who reject the teachings He has revealed through His son and his son's Church... because He gives people free will and their will prevails even after death

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

As the Bible says (somewhere) God is no respecter of persons. He wants everyone saved..

.

This is why I love the Fatima Prayer:

"Oh, my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy Mercy".

I pray it at least five times a day.

And mean it.


.

 

[BackAgain]

I don't recall saying that you asked for my help...

No. You said you can’t help me. I then noted that I hadn’t asked for any.

You don't believe in Hell. God gives you the freedom to believe whatever you want. He also gives you the freedom to end up in Hell whether you believe in what He has revealed or not...

Or perhaps He doesn’t.

I have read the entire Bible twice through and it is chock full of scenarios in which God's wrath abounds... just totally abounds.. In Ezechiel, God says to the prophets he will destroy this city and that... many cities are mentioned. And those cities were indeed destroyed, either because they belonged to the Jews who at that time were worshiping false gods (they tended to do that a lot) or the cities were those of pagans who rejoiced when "the Hebrew God" destroyed their enemies in the Jewish cities...

Ok. But that some stories are IN the Bible doesn’t necessarily make those stories accurate. You’re always free to accept them, just the same, while others are free to choose otherwise.

God's wrath against sin is real. I've experienced it in my own life---

No. Not necessarily. You may have gone through periods if shit. We all do. That doesn’t equate with it being God’s will. You either have free will or you don’t. If he punishes you, here in Earth, for your “sins” then He is interfering with your free will.

No one "is saved." Some "WILL BE saved" (exact scripture words) but no one IS saved until God saves that person... and He will not save those who reject the teachings He has revealed through His son and his son's Church... because He gives people free will and their will prevails even after death

Again, often avoid any religious conversations because I have absolutely no desire to even attempt to talk you out of your beliefs. But I reject that just because “scripture” says something that this makes it so.

I am plenty pleased to look be in a land where we have a First Amendment which protects your right to remain free to have your religious beliefs and I am free to have differing beliefs.

It is kind of difficult to make a syllogism on the nature of any religion which is based exclusively on the texts and beliefs OF that religion.

 

[forkintheroad7]

.

This is why I love the Fatima Prayer:

"Oh, my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy Mercy".

I pray it at least five times a day.

And mean it.


.

Yeh, I don't see how anyone who studies Fatima can remain a protester. But I guess this is one reason Jesus said most people don't make it to Heaven (my words)

They prefer their own beliefs to ... Truth

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Correction to something I just wrote:

The Mass of All Times was codified at the Council of Trent. But I had written that the Douay Rheims Bible was also codified at that Council. On 2nd thought, I am at this time not entirely sure of that.

The DR Bible was begun at the time of the Council of Trent, but either the Old or the New Testament was finished shortly after Trent ended...

In any case, it is very important that the Mass was codified at that Council... What we have in the V2 sect (Vatican) is not that codified version. Therefore, it can be presumed logically that the "new Mass" is not valid...

Maybe Jesus consecrates the hosts in some of the NO churches anyway (?)... giving us His Real Presence.

I say this because the Real Presence of Christ is there just the same, at least in some Churches I've been to... God can over-write his own laws...

Even so... You don't presume on God... and you don't change what the CHURCH codifies at a valid Council...

Trent was valid

Vatican II was FAR from valid.

.

My priest celebrates the NO Mass in a very reverent and holy way, so I have no trouble accepting the Real Presence when I receive the Holy Eucharist.


.

 

[forkintheroad7]

It is kind of difficult to make a syllogism on the nature of any religion which is based exclusively on the texts and beliefs OF that religion.

You are allowing your own fallen human mind to decide matters that are above your pay grade, so to say. However, when humans are logical, as sometimes they are, they realize that 1) sin is bad 2) no good God would want us to do anything that is bad for us, therefore He does whatever He can to keep us from sinning 3) sin has LONG term consequences... to our relationships with both God and man and to self... Also, it is logical that there would be a place where souls go after death depending on what they did, good or bad in this life... it is logical. But I'm not going to argue all day long.

It comes down to CHOICE. You choose to toss aside all that people claim God teaches through His Word and His Church

I choose not to...

And that's really all one can say......... Oh wait, there is one more thing (as Colombo would say)

I've been in the Real (tangible) Presence of Jesus Christ

and you likely have not

so there's that

 

[forkintheroad7]

.

My priest celebrates the NO Mass in a very reverent and holy way, so I have no trouble accepting the Real Presence when I receive the Holy Eucharist.


.

Does he say, when consecrating (or attempting to) the host

"The mystery of Faith"?

That was removed from "new mass" yet I've heard NO priests say it... thank God

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Does he say, when consecrating (or attempting to) the host

"The mystery of Faith"?

That was removed from "new mass" yet I've heard NO priests say it... thank God

.

Yes, he does and we respond appropriately.


.

 

[MarathonMike]

whatever

I'm sorry your life is miserable. That doesn't make you a "good Christian" and my parents were not "bad Christians" because your interpretation of the Bible is different than theirs.

 

[forkintheroad7]

.

Yes, he does and we respond appropriately.


.

I believe that is the main thing that makes a Mass valid.. but I haven't delved into that particular issue. I just know there is that and some other words that were removed for the "new mass" so called. Again, people should not presume on God..

Jesus loves us and knows we need the Eucharist. So He likely consecrates the host at NO "masses" despite man's rebellion (V2).

Jesus is good... others...

 

[BackAgain]

You are allowing your own fallen human mind to decide matters that are above your pay grade,

No. I’d say that you are allowing your mind to be controlled by unsupportable beliefs which are plainly above your pay grade.

See how this works?

so to say. However, when humans are logical, as sometimes they are, they realize that 1) sin is bad 2) no good God would want us to do anything that is bad for us, therefore He does whatever He can to keep us from sinning 3) sin has LONG term consequences... to our relationships with both God and man and to self... Also, it is logical that there would be a place where souls go after death depending on what they did, good or bad in this life... it is logical. But I'm not going to argue all day long.

It comes down to CHOICE. You choose to toss aside all that people claim God teaches through His Word and His Church

I choose not to...

And that's really all one can say......... Oh wait, there is one more thing (as Colombo would say)

I've been in the Real (tangible) Presence of Jesus Christ

and you likely have not

so there's that

Again, if you choose to substitute your belief, where evidence can’t support it, and label it “proof,” that’s a you thing. And it’s perfectly ok. I’m not trying to change your mind or your opinion or your beliefs.

I am simply noting that it makes no sense to quote the Bible as alleged “proof” of your belief in the Bible.

 

[forkintheroad7]

I'm sorry your life is miserable. That doesn't make you a "good Christian" and my parents were not "bad Christians" because your interpretation of the Bible is different than theirs.

You love arguing and insulting others more than
searching for truth, apparently