Zone1 Remember the 2 instances in the Bible where the gay community surrounded the homes and threatened the occupants?

[JoeB131]

Again, I did not skip over Lot being drunk and his daughters having sex with him. See again post #(11), second to last paragraph.

Lot was/is righteous because of his faith, because he is declared righteous by God.

that's some pretty circular reasoning there, bud.

The nature of the children of Israel at that time was to always turn away from God and serve other gods. Only when their enemies overcame them and put them under sever servitude would they turn back to God. But only till they were delivered, then they would again turn away from God. And Jephthah was a bastard, the son of a harlot. He was cast out of Israel. (Judges 11:1-2) How much he knew about the Laws of God is debatable. But again, it is quite possible that he did kill his daughter to fulfill his vow. But, God was not requiring it of him.

Except he made a vow. I will sacrifice the first thing I encounter if you give me victory over the Ammonites. He won a victory over the Ammonites. Slaughtered 30 cities full of them. So God listened to his prayer and granted his wish. Even if Jephthah didn't anticipate his daughter running out the door first, God certainly should have known that was going to happen.

Again, I think this was a case of trying to reconcile traditions with current Laws, that Human Sacrifice was probably a common thing before the Torah was written well after the time of Moses. They could claim, "We were never into that", but then everyone remembers the time someone did.

Well, just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it wasn't in the Bible.

No, but it begs the question of why the church doesn't like to talk about these stories.

No, both Old and New Testament were written by men inspired by the Spirit of God to write. Written by men but the Word of God.

Or it was just dudes.

You don't go around stoning your neighbors for working on the sabbath, because that sort of thing isn't tolerated anymore.

Time Change. God didn't change his mind, we changed ours.

 

[Quantrill]

that's some pretty circular reasoning there, bud.





Except he made a vow. I will sacrifice the first thing I encounter if you give me victory over the Ammonites. He won a victory over the Ammonites. Slaughtered 30 cities full of them. So God listened to his prayer and granted his wish. Even if Jephthah didn't anticipate his daughter running out the door first, God certainly should have known that was going to happen.

Again, I think this was a case of trying to reconcile traditions with current Laws, that Human Sacrifice was probably a common thing before the Torah was written well after the time of Moses. They could claim, "We were never into that", but then everyone remembers the time someone did.



No, but it begs the question of why the church doesn't like to talk about these stories.



Or it was just dudes.

You don't go around stoning your neighbors for working on the sabbath, because that sort of thing isn't tolerated anymore.

Time Change. God didn't change his mind, we changed ours.

Circular reasoning meaning you don't know how to read?

No, it's not reconciling anything. It's observing the written Word. God never told Jephthah to make such a vow. If he made it and carried it out, so be it. But even the death of his daughter is not clear. Of course God knows what will happen. Just like He knows who will be tossed into the Lake of Fire. So what?

Again, I have no problem with Jephthah taking his daughters life because of his vow, or if it meant something else. So, no reconciling here. As I said, the Father will offer His Son, Jesus "Christ, as a human sacrifice. It is necessary.

The church I was part of always talked about these stories. I guess you went to the wrong church. Which, by the way, didn't keep you from reading the Bible on your own....did it? Like you didn't have access to a Bible. Quit blaming others and try to learn the truth from the Bible.

No. It was men inspired by the Spirit of God that wrote the Bible. But they were the Words of God. From Moses to Christ, you did go around stoning your neighbors for not keeping the Sabbath. Just because we are no longer under the Mosaic Law, doesn't mean the Law was not righteous and holy, and good. And the law didn't end because man didn't tolerate it. It ended because Christ fulfilled the Law.

No, man did not have ability to remove the Mosaic Law. Man could not fulfill the Mosaic Law. Only Christ. (Matt. 5:18) "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Quantrill

 

[Manonthestreet]

12 years of Catholic School. I couldn't run away from the insanity quickly enough.

If more people really read the bible, we'd have more atheists.

 

[JoeB131]

Circular reasoning meaning you don't know how to read?

No, it's not reconciling anything. It's observing the written Word. God never told Jephthah to make such a vow. If he made it and carried it out, so be it. But even the death of his daughter is not clear. Of course God knows what will happen. Just like He knows who will be tossed into the Lake of Fire. So what?

Again, I have no problem with Jephthah taking his daughters life because of his vow, or if it meant something else. So, no reconciling here. As I said, the Father will offer His Son, Jesus "Christ, as a human sacrifice. It is necessary.

Yet the writers of the New Testament call Jephthah one of the "Greats". mentioned alongside Moses, David, Samuel and the other "Hall of Famers" in the Bible. So God was perfectly fine with what he did.

There's also the other part of the story where he slaughtered most of the Tribe of Ephram for not pronouncing "Shibboleth" correctly. The guy must have been a real psycho, and the kind of "Hero" we find in the Bible.

The church I was part of always talked about these stories. I guess you went to the wrong church. Which, by the way, didn't keep you from reading the Bible on your own....did it? Like you didn't have access to a Bible. Quit blaming others and try to learn the truth from the Bible.

Oh, I did read the bible on my own. And when I asked the nuns about the things in it that were obviously bullshit, I ended up getting a wooden ruler across the knuckles.

"Um, Sister, why do Luke and Matthew have different lists of ancestors for Jesus, and why do they both trace him through Joseph, who wasn't his father, anyway?"

WHACK!

Incidently, the Catholic Church is no more "wrong" than any church started because some fat King couldn't get a divorce, or some whackadoodle wandered out into a forest and decided to start a cult.

No, man did not have ability to remove the Mosaic Law. Man could not fulfill the Mosaic Law. Only Christ. (Matt. 5:18) "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Yet this was one of the biggest controversies of the Early Chruch. Peter wanted to keep things like Circumcission and Kosher, while Paul (who probably invented more of Christianity than Jesus did) said it was okay because they wanted to convert gentiles.

God didn't change his mind, we changed ours.

No. It was men inspired by the Spirit of God that wrote the Bible. But they were the Words of God. From Moses to Christ, you did go around stoning your neighbors for not keeping the Sabbath. Just because we are no longer under the Mosaic Law, doesn't mean the Law was not righteous and holy, and good. And the law didn't end because man didn't tolerate it. It ended because Christ fulfilled the Law.

Actually, it was probably unlikely that stoning was still going on by the time of Christ, given Judea was part of different empires (Persian, Greek, Roman) that were more civilized than that. If you look at the 'He who is without sin cast the first stone, you can see that discussion is more in they hypothetical than the actual.

No, man did not have ability to remove the Mosaic Law. Man could not fulfill the Mosaic Law. Only Christ. (Matt. 5:18) "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Except Jesus didn't end slavery, Abe Lincoln did.

God didn't change his mind, we changed ours.

Same with burning witches or other barbarism in the bible.

 

[Quantrill]

Yet the writers of the New Testament call Jephthah one of the "Greats". mentioned alongside Moses, David, Samuel and the other "Hall of Famers" in the Bible. So God was perfectly fine with what he did.

There's also the other part of the story where he slaughtered most of the Tribe of Ephram for not pronouncing "Shibboleth" correctly. The guy must have been a real psycho, and the kind of "Hero" we find in the Bible.



Oh, I did read the bible on my own. And when I asked the nuns about the things in it that were obviously bullshit, I ended up getting a wooden ruler across the knuckles.

"Um, Sister, why do Luke and Matthew have different lists of ancestors for Jesus, and why do they both trace him through Joseph, who wasn't his father, anyway?"

WHACK!

Incidently, the Catholic Church is no more "wrong" than any church started because some fat King couldn't get a divorce, or some whackadoodle wandered out into a forest and decided to start a cult.



Yet this was one of the biggest controversies of the Early Chruch. Peter wanted to keep things like Circumcission and Kosher, while Paul (who probably invented more of Christianity than Jesus did) said it was okay because they wanted to convert gentiles.

God didn't change his mind, we changed ours.



Actually, it was probably unlikely that stoning was still going on by the time of Christ, given Judea was part of different empires (Persian, Greek, Roman) that were more civilized than that. If you look at the 'He who is without sin cast the first stone, you can see that discussion is more in they hypothetical than the actual.



Except Jesus didn't end slavery, Abe Lincoln did.

God didn't change his mind, we changed ours.

Same with burning witches or other barbarism in the bible.

Yes, God was perfectly fine with Jephthah's faith, whether it meant the life of his daughter or something else. I have no problem with either. As far as the slaughter of the Ephraimites, it was war. If you want to win, that's what you do.

You still had access to a Bible, and could obtain commentaries if you really wanted to know. Other churches you could visit and ask the questions. Bible studies on radio where you could call in your questions. Just a multitude of places to obtain answers from.

No, God changed the times. Only God could. The Law of Moses was God's Law. It only ceases when He says it does. And He said it wouldn't cease till every jot and title is fulfilled. Which could only be accomplished by Jesus Christ. (John 19:30) "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

The change now would involve a new body of believers than Israel who was under that Law of Moses. That Body is called the Church, the Body and Bride of Jesus Christ. That Body would begin at Pentecost in (Acts 2) with the coming of the Holy Ghost. That is a change that only God can make as He alone sends that Holy Ghost. Man had nothing to do with it. It was all of God.

I see nothing hypothetical in (John 8:1-11). It's only hypothetical if you don't want to believe it. Just like some claim allegory when they don't want to believe it. Plus, the Jews in Iconium with Gentiles assaulted the apostles to stone them. (Acts 14:2-5). And Paul was stoned by Jews who persuaded the people of Lystra to stone him. (Acts 14:19-20). Point being stoning was not hypothetical.

I guess Abraham Lincoln was against God and Christ.

Quantrill

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, God was perfectly fine with Jephthah's faith, whether it meant the life of his daughter or something else. I have no problem with either. As far as the slaughter of the Ephraimites, it was war. If you want to win, that's what you do.

Um, except they weren't at war with the Epraimites. They just offended Jephthah by not sending troops to fight the Ammonites. So he slaughtered 42,000 of them.

You still had access to a Bible, and could obtain commentaries if you really wanted to know. Other churches you could visit and ask the questions. Bible studies on radio where you could call in your questions. Just a multitude of places to obtain answers from.

Um, yeah, getting the stupidity from a different hose doesn't make it less stupid.

No, God changed the times. Only God could. The Law of Moses was God's Law. It only ceases when He says it does. And He said it wouldn't cease till every jot and title is fulfilled. Which could only be accomplished by Jesus Christ. (John 19:30) "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

Except he didn't end the law of Moses, which is why most Jews kept on being... Jews.

The change now would involve a new body of believers than Israel who was under that Law of Moses. That Body is called the Church, the Body and Bride of Jesus Christ. That Body would begin at Pentecost in (Acts 2) with the coming of the Holy Ghost. That is a change that only God can make as He alone sends that Holy Ghost. Man had nothing to do with it. It was all of God.

Except God didn't outlaw slavery or witch burning at the Pentacost. He just said, "Hey, Apostles, stop being the clueless knobs you were during the Gospels." (And from a literary sense, they apostles keep questioning Jesus's miracles after he performs dozens of them.)

I see nothing hypothetical in (John 8:1-11).

I wasn't addressing that passage. Try to stick to the topic.

 

[Quantrill]

Um, except they weren't at war with the Epraimites. They just offended Jephthah by not sending troops to fight the Ammonites. So he slaughtered 42,000 of them.




Um, yeah, getting the stupidity from a different hose doesn't make it less stupid.



Except he didn't end the law of Moses, which is why most Jews kept on being... Jews.



Except God didn't outlaw slavery or witch burning at the Pentacost. He just said, "Hey, Apostles, stop being the clueless knobs you were during the Gospels." (And from a literary sense, they apostles keep questioning Jesus's miracles after he performs dozens of them.)



I wasn't addressing that passage. Try to stick to the topic.

No, Jephthah responded to the Ephraimites coming to him to fight. The Ephraimites provoked the war. (Judges 12:3) "...wherefore then are ye come up unto me this day, to fight against me?"

See, you were not looking for the truth back then. Just as now, you are not looking for the truth.

Oh yes, God did away with the Mosaic Law. (Eph. 2:15) "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

(2 Cor. 3:7) "For if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious...." (2 Cor. 3:11) "For if that which is done away is glorious...."

The law was done away. Where in Scripture do you find the burning of witches?

No, you 'were' addressing (John 8:1-11), you just didn't know it, and didn't care to look it up. In post #(24) you said, "If you look at the He who is without sin cast the first stone..." That specific verse is (John 8:7). The full context is (John 8:1-11). So, I did stick to the topic. You just didn't know it.

Quantrill

 

[JoeB131]

No, Jephthah responded to the Ephraimites coming to him to fight. The Ephraimites provoked the war. (Judges 12:3) "...wherefore then are ye come up unto me this day, to fight against me?"

See, you were not looking for the truth back then. Just as now, you are not looking for the truth.

Whole verse...

12 The Ephraimite forces were called out, and they crossed over to Zaphon. They said to Jephthah, “Why did you go to fight the Ammonites without calling us to go with you? We’re going to burn down your house over your head.”

2;Jephthah answered, “I and my people were engaged in a great struggle with the Ammonites, and although I called, you didn’t save me out of their hands. 3When I saw that you wouldn’t help, I took my life in my hands and crossed over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave me the victory over them. Now why have you come up today to fight me?”

4 Jephthah then called together the men of Gilead and fought against Ephraim. The Gileadites struck them down because the Ephraimites had said, “You Gileadites are renegades from Ephraim and Manasseh.” 5 ;The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead asked him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” If he replied, “No,” 6 ;they said, “All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’” If he said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time.

Killing people because they can't pronounce a word right? That's messed up, yo! Then again, the guy just butchered his daughter and burned her remains to please a magic sky pixie. We'd lock someone up for that today.

Oh yes, God did away with the Mosaic Law. (Eph. 2:15) "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

then why do you keep trying to post the Ten Commandments in public places?

The law was done away. Where in Scripture do you find the burning of witches?

Thou Shall Not Suffer A Witch To Live. Exodus 22:18.

And Good Christians were still burning witches up to the 18th Century.

God didn't change his mind. We changed ours.

No, you 'were' addressing (John 8:1-11),

No, I wasn't.

 

[Quantrill]

Whole verse...

12 The Ephraimite forces were called out, and they crossed over to Zaphon. They said to Jephthah, “Why did you go to fight the Ammonites without calling us to go with you? We’re going to burn down your house over your head.”

2;Jephthah answered, “I and my people were engaged in a great struggle with the Ammonites, and although I called, you didn’t save me out of their hands. 3When I saw that you wouldn’t help, I took my life in my hands and crossed over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave me the victory over them. Now why have you come up today to fight me?”

4 Jephthah then called together the men of Gilead and fought against Ephraim. The Gileadites struck them down because the Ephraimites had said, “You Gileadites are renegades from Ephraim and Manasseh.” 5 ;The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead asked him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” If he replied, “No,” 6 ;they said, “All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’” If he said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time.

Killing people because they can't pronounce a word right? That's messed up, yo! Then again, the guy just butchered his daughter and burned her remains to please a magic sky pixie. We'd lock someone up for that today.



then why do you keep trying to post the Ten Commandments in public places?


Thou Shall Not Suffer A Witch To Live. Exodus 22:18.

And Good Christians were still burning witches up to the 18th Century.

God didn't change his mind. We changed ours.



No, I wasn't.

Just like I said, the Ephraimites came to Jephthah to war. (Judges 12:3) Jephthah did what he need to do to defeat the Ephraimites.

The Mosaic Law has been removed as being that which governs the believer on earth. It doesn't mean the Law was not true or good and holy. It was. The problem was/is man cannot keep it as he is a fallen creature. Those 10 commandments still represent the God of the Bible. And as Europe became Christian from pauper to King, they naturally represented the Christian government. And America was established as European and Christian, thus we too view those 10 commandments as representative of God who founded America.

(Ex. 22:18) is the Law. Which I said, has been done away. The Law is more than the 10 commandments.

Well, good Christians made a lot of mistakes.

I just showed you that God did away with the Law. Not man. Man had no ability to cancel the Law.

Then give me the chapter and verse of your statement in post #(24). "If you look at the He who is without sin cast the first stone"

Quantrill