- Moderator
- #161
Id rather get with the truth. And the truth is that there is a God. But please, don't take my word for it. Find out for yourself. God loves you. He wants you to seek Him out. The invitation is there for you to take.
Religions will End.
- Thread starter shintao
- Start date
Id rather get with the truth. And the truth is that there is a God. But please, don't take my word for it. Find out for yourself. God loves you. He wants you to seek Him out. The invitation is there for you to take.
- Moderator
- #162
It doesn't beg the question. But then im not sure you understand what "begging the question" means:
Beg The Question // Get it right.
However, you could simply ask Him. But as you don't really care about the answer, I doubt you'll ever learn the answer.
- Moderator
- #163
That's an absurd argument. If there is a heaven and a hell, it doesn't matter whether you believe in it or not. It's still there. If there isn't a heaven and a hell, it doesn't matter whether you believe in it or not. It isn't there.
Belief or non-belief don't determine truth. Truth is simply things as they are, as they were, and as they will be. Truth doesn't change from one person to another. Truth is reality.
And as much as you might want to excuse yourself, you are still accountable for your actions. You go out of your way to ignore the consequence of those actions, you may pretend they don't exist. You can try to blame everyone but yourself for what happens in your life. But it doesn't make you any less accountable for your actions.
You can't fight the truth. The truth will set you free. It might make you miserable first, because you will realize you cant find lasting happiness in your sins, but when you embrace it, you will be free.
HUGGY
I Post Because I Care
To you? That would be pointless. From what I have read in your posts I don't believe anything I have to offer would put a dent in your brain washing. You are pretty much thoroughly gone. A lost cause. It is sad in a way but you seem to have made this choice. That is not why I post here or in other religious threads. I have no desire to save you from your own stupidity.
My only purpose is to try to expose your nonsense to someone that still has a mind of their own and is genuinely trying to decide if Christianity is for them. I would do the same for anyone contemplating becoming a heroin or meth addict.
HUGGY
I Post Because I Care
I have a question regarding free will. It is obvious that a person Like Alli has no identifiable free will remaining. Perhaps there was once a time in her life that she made personal rational choices but now every choice is 100% in relation to and agreement with god or jesus or the scriptures. So...why is it that these people blather on about free will? If one cannot follow any thread of logic or direction in their life without referring to their obligation to their religion how can they claim free will. Claiming god gave you a free will is not the same as you claiming it for yourself. You claim free will for yourself. It is not handed down to you as some gift or a permission. Claiming god gives you free will is an oxymoron. That's like saying our founding fathers established a free country as long as the King of England and his god agreed it is so. Our founding fathers said this new country America is free...They declared mother **** what the King of England or anyone else or their god thinks about that. That was free will.
HUGGY
I Post Because I Care
Most of the stand out individuals known as our forefathers were deists. That means they believed in A god. Not YOUR god. Meaning..they believed in some form of a creator. Not a FATHER. Not some busy body control freak you needed to run to whenever you had to make a choice in your life.
You really do not understand the meaning of "free will". I get that. It takes someone with free will to understand what those two words mean. There were lots of communists in the Soviet Union that saw nothing wrong with the state having all power like a "father". I'm sure many of them would offer the same argument as you do in support of what they believed.
AllieBaba
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Good grief, you really are nuts.
How you can state that there is no God, and at the same time I'm a slave to God and have no freewill is a pretty interesting work in contradiction, I must say.
Personally, I think you are under the control of Satan. I think God would give you the power to overthrow that yoke, but I doubt if you'll do that. You're a slave to your fear of admitting somebody else is in control.
So I guess everybody, at the end of the day, has to concede a little free will. I willingly give my life over to God. That's the essence of free will, and that's the reason we have it. You are unable to do that. Tell me, really, which one is more "free"...the person who makes a choice, or the person who can't even see that there is a choice?
How you can state that there is no God, and at the same time I'm a slave to God and have no freewill is a pretty interesting work in contradiction, I must say.
Personally, I think you are under the control of Satan. I think God would give you the power to overthrow that yoke, but I doubt if you'll do that. You're a slave to your fear of admitting somebody else is in control.
So I guess everybody, at the end of the day, has to concede a little free will. I willingly give my life over to God. That's the essence of free will, and that's the reason we have it. You are unable to do that. Tell me, really, which one is more "free"...the person who makes a choice, or the person who can't even see that there is a choice?
AllieBaba
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And the whole founding fathers bit, I've heard that before. It's funny every time I hear it because it's completely ridiculous. You don't know who MY GOD is, just as you don't know who their God was. You don't have a concept of God, so you really aren't in a position to judge people on their faith.
AllieBaba
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John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
"John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress"
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams, October 11, 1798"
"John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61"
"Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."
Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”
On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
Quotes of the Founders : Founding Fathers quotes on religion, faith, Christianity
Go ahead and ramble some more about how the founding fathers were Deists rather than Christians, or whatever crazy crap you're going on about, and how their God was different than mine; because I agree with every single thing they said there.
Then I'll come back with another arm's length of quotes affirming their believe in my God.
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
"John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress"
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams, October 11, 1798"
"John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61"
"Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."
Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”
On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
Quotes of the Founders : Founding Fathers quotes on religion, faith, Christianity
Go ahead and ramble some more about how the founding fathers were Deists rather than Christians, or whatever crazy crap you're going on about, and how their God was different than mine; because I agree with every single thing they said there.
Then I'll come back with another arm's length of quotes affirming their believe in my God.
HUGGY
I Post Because I Care
Only an insane person could make an assertion that I or anyone was under the influence and control of one of their own personal fantasies or hallucinations. No Allie ... you need to get a grip on reality. There is no Satan. There is no God. I am not under the influence of any of your imaginary beings. Neither are you. God is not in charge of you or anything else....Neither is your pretend boggy man Satan. Your obsession and delusion is yours alone. There are a lot of you that have a very similar psychotic obsession but a room full of crazy people is a room full of crazy people whether it is the day room at the mental institution or your place of worship.
HUGGY
I Post Because I Care
An honest person with a curiosity to look at life squarely and truly would not assert that they have never been confounded or confused at one time or another. We are not all knowing. Some things take time to absorb. Some are beyond our comprehension. That said ... I have never been damaged emotionally or intellectually by the challenges presented by the thought process.
Crazy is a lot of things under the label covering physically or chemically impaired to the simply confused and disturbed.
Am I or have I ever been "crazy" like you appear to be? No.
That is not to say that I am always right because I have learned new information on subjects I thought were already decided and found the new information more convincing than the once accepted explanation.
One of the more common symptoms of the insane is being "stuck" on and with their irrational conclusion.
For whatever the cause I believe you are "stuck" with an irrational set of conclusions. I believe that is very likely a reliable indicator of insanity. Not absolute proof..but certainly a troubling symptom.
AllieBaba
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You get a gold star for contradicting yourself in a spectacular manner.
You do it in every single post...within the posts themselves. It's not even like you post one thing, then a few minutes later contradict yourself. You do it AS you're posting. It's almost an art form.
You do it in every single post...within the posts themselves. It's not even like you post one thing, then a few minutes later contradict yourself. You do it AS you're posting. It's almost an art form.
HUGGY
I Post Because I Care
I have stated several times that it is not you I am attempting to convince or change. My discussing several "takes" on the same subject matter only appears contradictory because that is how you filter information. If you agree..it is not a contradiction...if you disagree it is a contradiction...but the conflict lies not within me..but you.
Again...I am only offering an example of free thought to any that might be choosing free will or giving up their free will in some kind of a trade for a promise of everlasting chocolate brownies or whatever the **** you think heaven is...
AllieBaba
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You aren't exactly a newbie, but you appear to be similarly affected by the cycles of the moon...so please go here:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/151686-whats-with-all-the-weird-newbies.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/151686-whats-with-all-the-weird-newbies.html
HUGGY
I Post Because I Care
Again you appear confused. You hold no high ground in this debate. I am not debating YOU. I am debating a subject. It matters little to me if it is you presenting the opposing case or someone else. If the discussion tires you then just admit it and chose to move on. This is not YOUR thread. I have tried to not make my argument about YOU. Leave if it pleases you. I still have work to do here.
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