Reforming Islam

[PaintMyHouse]

Liberalism wasn't very effective on the Belgian and French nationals who decided to kill their fellow countrymen and women, and they grew up in it.
Liberalism is way too weak and wussy to take on Islam. Ain't gonna happen.

You take on things with guns. Islam, like Liberalism, is an idea, and ours is better. That's not a war you fight with guns.

It is if you want to come out alive.
Being a nihilist, just like the terrorists, that's not something you can comprehend. Like so much else.

Don't love life too much, it makes one irrational.

 

[aris2chat]

Muslim's will never allow Islam to be deformed like the west has done to Christianity. .....

Time will tell on that one.

Muslims see how so called reforming of Christianity has turned the religion into marginalized and neutered shell of its former self.

We refuse to let that happen to Islam. .......

but you let terrorists corrupt Islam by picking isolated verses to justify their actions, and claim theirs is the true faith?

Sorry you need a major reformation or companion test to explain each verse alone and in contest to the sura.

Even life from the start of mohammeds revelation and the end of his life there were changes and adaptations. If it changes on the years of mohammed, you don't thing there needs to be change after more than 1500 yrs? A knowledge changes so the way we understand text changes. An adult understand subtleties in a text that children might not understand. Time Islam grew up and find their place in the world of the 21st C., and crawl out of the 7th.

If imams, clerics, leaders and scholars believe it is time to reform Islam, why do you believe you know better?

 

[aris2chat]

Liberalism wasn't very effective on the Belgian and French nationals who decided to kill their fellow countrymen and women, and they grew up in it.
Liberalism is way too weak and wussy to take on Islam. Ain't gonna happen.

Islam will meet it's match in the USA, regardless how the left feels

I think so too, but ii will be without help from the libtards.

.....lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya

it's not the 60's any more, and it did not work back then either.

First you have to get certain mulims to put down their swords and stop firing their rifles, then you have to teach them to hold hands of a kafir, worse yet to include women.

Sorry but it's time Mohammed goes to the mountain instead of the other way around.

 

[Sunni Man]

Even life from the start of mohammeds revelation and the end of his life there were changes and adaptations. If it changes on the years of mohammed, you don't thing there needs to be change after more than 1500 yrs? A knowledge changes so the way we understand text changes. An adult understand subtleties in a text that children might not understand. Time Islam grew up and find their place in the world of the 21st C., and crawl out of the 7th.

If imams, clerics, leaders and scholars believe it is time to reform Islam, why do you believe you know better?

I find it comical that a non-muslim atheist person like you. Wants to lecture muslim people about their religion and how it needs to change and reform. ......

 

[browsing deer]

Do tell, if you would be so kind, what kinds of reforms you would like to see happen in Islam?

Ending terrorism, pretty obvious.
Ending armed and violent Jihad of course.
Church and State separation?
Equals rights for girls and women?
Religious tolerance?

?

You forget that Islam is a set of reforms. Reforms to behavior, reforms to the citizen and the state, reforms to religious practice. They didn't set things up to suit us, but to suit their needs.

Isam is an organic faith which all parts of it are part of a kaleidoscope. An Islamic state can't offer separation of church and state.

Jihad is the obligation of every muslim.

Srsly, you NEED to read the Koran from cover to cover (It isn't that big, if you can stomach it, it is about 4 hours) to get what is there. It is not a table de hote where you can take the parts you like and ignore the parts you don't. It is all, or nothing at all.

As for equal rights for women and religious toleration..... that is not ever going to be a part of it

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Do tell, if you would be so kind, what kinds of reforms you would like to see happen in Islam?

Ending terrorism, pretty obvious.
Ending armed and violent Jihad of course.
Church and State separation?
Equals rights for girls and women?
Religious tolerance?

?

You forget that Islam is a set of reforms. Reforms to behavior, reforms to the citizen and the state, reforms to religious practice. They didn't set things up to suit us, but to suit their needs.

Isam is an organic faith which all parts of it are part of a kaleidoscope. An Islamic state can't offer separation of church and state.

Jihad is the obligation of every muslim.

Srsly, you NEED to read the Koran from cover to cover (It isn't that big, if you can stomach it, it is about 4 hours) to get what is there. It is not a table de hote where you can take the parts you like and ignore the parts you don't. It is all, or nothing at all.

As for equal rights for women and religious toleration..... that is not ever going to be a part of it

What reforms do you want?

 

[aris2chat]

Even life from the start of mohammeds revelation and the end of his life there were changes and adaptations. If it changes on the years of mohammed, you don't thing there needs to be change after more than 1500 yrs? A knowledge changes so the way we understand text changes. An adult understand subtleties in a text that children might not understand. Time Islam grew up and find their place in the world of the 21st C., and crawl out of the 7th.

If imams, clerics, leaders and scholars believe it is time to reform Islam, why do you believe you know better?

I find it comical that a non-muslim atheist person like you. Wants to lecture muslim people about their religion and how it needs to change and reform. ......

Does not mean I have not studied the quran or the history of Islam. I can't recite it any more but I could at one time. I lived with these people, why wouldn't I be knowledgeable of Islam?

 

[SAYIT]

Could not the same be said of the teachings of Jesus? Was he, in any way at all, wrong?

Yanno, I knew it wouldn't take long for some loony lefty to try to deflect the "Reforming Islam" thread into a "Was Jesus or is Christianity evil" thread but I didn't expect it to happen by post #6 nor did I suspect it would be the OP to fudge his own thread.

Then again, PMS has never been the brightest bulb on the tree.

Exactly how is that much different from what Christians believe?

Exactly what does your loony leftard hate for Christians and Christianity have to do with the "Reforming Islam" subject at hand?

Oh, that's right ... it has none.

I swear you loons are the dimmest creatures on the planet (and I mean that with as much respect as I can muster for raging idiots).

The threads go where they may. Don't like it, don't post.

This thread went where you evidently intended for it to go.

It took you all of 15 minutes to change your subject from "Reform Islam" to your real agenda ... your hate for Christians and Christianity.

 

[Tilly]

Liberalism wasn't very effective on the Belgian and French nationals who decided to kill their fellow countrymen and women, and they grew up in it.
Liberalism is way too weak and wussy to take on Islam. Ain't gonna happen.

Islam will meet it's match in the USA, regardless how the left feels

I think so too, but ii will be without help from the libtards.

.....lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya

it's not the 60's any more, and it did not work back then either.

First you have to get certain mulims to put down their swords and stop firing their rifles, then you have to teach them to hold hands of a kafir, worse yet to include women.

Sorry but it's time Mohammed goes to the mountain instead of the other way around.

How is that going to happen, though?

 

[SAYIT]

"Today, we have progressed to the point where our problems again resemble those of the 16th century, as we find ourselves entangled in conflicts over competing revelations, dogmatic purity and divine duty. We in the West are disturbed and confused. Though we have our own fundamentalists, we find it incomprehensible that theological ideas still stir up messianic passions, leaving societies in ruin. We had assumed this was no longer possible, that human beings had learned to separate religious questions from political ones, that fanaticism was dead. We were wrong...

In the end, though, what happens on the opposite shore will not be up to us. We have little reason to expect societies in the grip of a powerful political theology to follow our unusual path, which was opened up by a unique crisis within Christian civilization. This does not mean that those societies necessarily lack the wherewithal to create a decent and workable political order; it does mean that they will have to find the theological resources within their own traditions to make it happen." - Mark Lilla, Professor of the Humanities at Colombia U

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/magazine/19Religion-t.html

 

[Sunni Man]

Does not mean I have not studied the quran or the history of Islam. I can't recite it any more but I could at one time. I lived with these people, why wouldn't I be knowledgeable of Islam?

Knowledge is one thing.......but making demands is another thing. .....

 

[browsing deer]

Do tell, if you would be so kind, what kinds of reforms you would like to see happen in Islam?

Ending terrorism, pretty obvious.
Ending armed and violent Jihad of course.
Church and State separation?
Equals rights for girls and women?
Religious tolerance?

?

You forget that Islam is a set of reforms. Reforms to behavior, reforms to the citizen and the state, reforms to religious practice. They didn't set things up to suit us, but to suit their needs.

Isam is an organic faith which all parts of it are part of a kaleidoscope. An Islamic state can't offer separation of church and state.

Jihad is the obligation of every muslim.

Srsly, you NEED to read the Koran from cover to cover (It isn't that big, if you can stomach it, it is about 4 hours) to get what is there. It is not a table de hote where you can take the parts you like and ignore the parts you don't. It is all, or nothing at all.

As for equal rights for women and religious toleration..... that is not ever going to be a part of it

What reforms do you want?

You can't reform it. It is a fundamental religion. Any reform is anti islamic.

Read the book. It isn't hard. Large number of muslims can recite it, the whole of it. Before you call on people who have no clue to 'reform' it, you should understand what you are dealing with.

 

[aris2chat]

Does not mean I have not studied the quran or the history of Islam. I can't recite it any more but I could at one time. I lived with these people, why wouldn't I be knowledgeable of Islam?

Knowledge is one thing.......but making demands is another thing. .....

clerics and scholars are the ones calling for the reform, but I agree it is over due. Not like there have not been changes in the past.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2015/01/reforming-islam

Liberal Muslim movements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reforming Islam | Manitoba Muslim

ReformingIslam.com

Islamic Reformers

How To Reform Islam

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Do tell, if you would be so kind, what kinds of reforms you would like to see happen in Islam?

Ending terrorism, pretty obvious.
Ending armed and violent Jihad of course.
Church and State separation?
Equals rights for girls and women?
Religious tolerance?

?

You forget that Islam is a set of reforms. Reforms to behavior, reforms to the citizen and the state, reforms to religious practice. They didn't set things up to suit us, but to suit their needs.

Isam is an organic faith which all parts of it are part of a kaleidoscope. An Islamic state can't offer separation of church and state.

Jihad is the obligation of every muslim.

Srsly, you NEED to read the Koran from cover to cover (It isn't that big, if you can stomach it, it is about 4 hours) to get what is there. It is not a table de hote where you can take the parts you like and ignore the parts you don't. It is all, or nothing at all.

As for equal rights for women and religious toleration..... that is not ever going to be a part of it

What reforms do you want?

You can't reform it. It is a fundamental religion. Any reform is anti islamic.

Read the book. It isn't hard. Large number of muslims can recite it, the whole of it. Before you call on people who have no clue to 'reform' it, you should understand what you are dealing with.

Reform usually comes from outside. Go with it.

 

[Coyote]

I think the only meaningful answers would come from Muslims who have a more full understanding of their faith than any of the rest of us.

Reform comes from the outside, usually. What reforms would you like to see?

Does it come from the outside? Maybe - but it comes in conjunction with those who are of the faith.

I thought I said it in my final paragraph:

I think "religious reformation" would take the form of Islamic scholars and leaders looking at Islam, and how it can be interpreted to be in line with fundamental modern values and rights, and then passing that on to their followers. But that can only happen if the fundamental culture changes.

Reformation is bringing religion in line with certain fundamental rights and values. For example the harsh penalties for apostacy and homosexuality. Seperation of religion and government is another. Womens rights - well, NO religion is in the forefront of women's rights. That is something that can only come about with the seperation of church and state.

 

[Coyote]

I'm with this guy:

Can Islam be Reformed?
April 26, 2015
A real reformation of the Islamic religion would require a repudiation of large parts of Muhammad's legacy, which is akin to reforming Christianity by repudiating Christ.

William Kilpatrick
Can Islam be Reformed? | Catholic World Report - Global Church news and views

Not gonna happen.

Oh, give it time. Liberalism and capitalism pretty much made Christianity a token religion.

Christianity began its reformation before liberalism existed as any kind of force. Duuhhhhh.

the reformation of Luther was not all that "LIBERAL"

It certainly wasn't.

 

[Coyote]

I think the only meaningful answers would come from Muslims who have a more full understanding of their faith than any of the rest of us.

Don't think. You don't have the facilities to do so. Keep it simple stupid.

Did you say something insect?

 

[Sunni Man]

Separation of church and state is a western concept.

And will always be rejected by muslim society and culture. ......

 

[Coyote]

Separation of church and state is a western concept.

And will always be rejected by muslim society and culture. ......

Yet is isn't amongst western muslims.

Maybe you are wrong....

 

[irosie91]

Separation of church and state is a western concept.

And will always be rejected by muslim society and culture. ......

Yet is isn't amongst western muslims.

Maybe you are wrong....

shouldn't sunni be the ONE WHOM YOU SHOULD ASK?