Red line in the sand.... Obama painting a red target on all of us now with iranian Deal!
- Thread starter healthmyths
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RedTeamTex
Active Member
You are giving some very nutty clerics, and worse a paramilitary bunch of zealots underneath them, a whole lot more credit for rational game theory than I would....
Are there players in there we can deal with? Sure. Are they going to be the ones holding the reins for any predictable length of time? Big gamble.
I'd have pressed them for a heck of a lot more before loosening the sanctions noose. There was a time we had the allies to make it work, until Obama convinced them all (Saudis and Israel) he's too dense to know how to keep allies and they all have to fend for themselves.
If economic calculus and domestic tranquility have truly taken hold as bastions of Iranian policy formulation and they're truly motivated to keep up their end of deal (for 10 years?) then yeah, things could be worse. But I think that's an awfully big if. Looks to me they're just following the North Korean playbook and will make some more noise later to see what more it gets them.
g5000
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Fifth cup of piss: Only Iranian inspectors. Iranians will inspect themselves.
Facts: There is a long defunct site which is suspected of once having been a part of Iran's nuclear weapons program, but which all parties acknowledge went defunct more than 10 years ago.
It is this site from which Iran will provide samples.
The retards have been led to believe that ALL monitoring will be done by Iranians. This is a dead giveaway they have never read the agreement and are doing some serious piss chugging straight from the tap.
From Section N of the agreement:
N. MODERN TECHNOLOGIES AND LONG TERM PRESENCE OF IAEA
67. For the purpose of increasing the efficiency of monitoring for this JCPOA, for 15 years or longer, for the specified verification measures:
67. Iran will permit the IAEA the use of on-line enrichment measurement and electronic seals which communicate their status within nuclear sites to IAEA inspectors, as well as other IAEA approved and certified modern technologies in line with internationally accepted IAEA practice. Iran will facilitate automated collection of IAEA measurement recordings registered by installed measurement devices and sending to IAEA working space in individual nuclear sites.
67. Iran will make the necessary arrangements to allow for a long-term IAEA presence, including issuing long-term visas, as well as providing proper working space at nuclear sites and, with best efforts, at locations near nuclear sites in Iran for the designated IAEA inspectors for working and keeping necessary equipment.
67. Iran will increase the number of designated IAEA inspectors to the range of 130-150 within 9 months from the date of the implementation of the JCPOA, and will generally allow the designation of inspectors from nations that have diplomatic relations with Iran, consistent with its laws and regulations.
From Section R:
80. Iran will declare all locations and equipment, namely flow-forming machines, filament winding machines and mandrels that are used for production of centrifuge rotor tubes or bellows, and will permit the IAEA to implement continuous monitoring, including through containment and surveillance on this equipment, to verify that this equipment is being used to manufacture centrifuges only for the activities specified in this JCPOA.
These are but a few samples of multiple inspection and monitoring requirements in the agreement.
Facts: There is a long defunct site which is suspected of once having been a part of Iran's nuclear weapons program, but which all parties acknowledge went defunct more than 10 years ago.
It is this site from which Iran will provide samples.
The retards have been led to believe that ALL monitoring will be done by Iranians. This is a dead giveaway they have never read the agreement and are doing some serious piss chugging straight from the tap.
From Section N of the agreement:
N. MODERN TECHNOLOGIES AND LONG TERM PRESENCE OF IAEA
67. For the purpose of increasing the efficiency of monitoring for this JCPOA, for 15 years or longer, for the specified verification measures:
67. Iran will permit the IAEA the use of on-line enrichment measurement and electronic seals which communicate their status within nuclear sites to IAEA inspectors, as well as other IAEA approved and certified modern technologies in line with internationally accepted IAEA practice. Iran will facilitate automated collection of IAEA measurement recordings registered by installed measurement devices and sending to IAEA working space in individual nuclear sites.
67. Iran will make the necessary arrangements to allow for a long-term IAEA presence, including issuing long-term visas, as well as providing proper working space at nuclear sites and, with best efforts, at locations near nuclear sites in Iran for the designated IAEA inspectors for working and keeping necessary equipment.
67. Iran will increase the number of designated IAEA inspectors to the range of 130-150 within 9 months from the date of the implementation of the JCPOA, and will generally allow the designation of inspectors from nations that have diplomatic relations with Iran, consistent with its laws and regulations.
From Section R:
80. Iran will declare all locations and equipment, namely flow-forming machines, filament winding machines and mandrels that are used for production of centrifuge rotor tubes or bellows, and will permit the IAEA to implement continuous monitoring, including through containment and surveillance on this equipment, to verify that this equipment is being used to manufacture centrifuges only for the activities specified in this JCPOA.
These are but a few samples of multiple inspection and monitoring requirements in the agreement.
g5000
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As I frequently say, the rubes have the intellectual bandwidth of a bumper sticker. That's why propaganda pieces like Zucker's are so popular with them. They are fed bite sized morsels of bullshit which are easily consumed.
I bet they haven't even read the entirety of my posts up to this point. It's a guarantee in the case of healthmyths, because he keeps parroting the same lies even though I have debunked them umpteen times.
You will never catch one of these rubes who rant against the agreement ever actually READING the agreement. They get all their information about it from their piss pourers.
I bet they haven't even read the entirety of my posts up to this point. It's a guarantee in the case of healthmyths, because he keeps parroting the same lies even though I have debunked them umpteen times.
You will never catch one of these rubes who rant against the agreement ever actually READING the agreement. They get all their information about it from their piss pourers.
g5000
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BWA-HA-HA-HA! North Korea acquired nukes on Bush's watch, you idiot!
occupied
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I disagree, they may sound crazy at times but they act with a great deal of rationality. If you simply disregard the apocalyptic bullshit they issue mostly for their own hawkish conservatives you see a nation that clearly and carefully deliberates their moves. I see none of the erratic and fatalistic kind of actions one would expect from the kind of leadership that our own conservatives like to characterize as insane.
toxicmedia
Gold Member
You're gonna clear this thread out.
I haven't heard one anti deal poster say anything but "you can't trust Iran"
When someone responds with "you don't need to because the deal has compliance measures"
Then the anti deal poster will say "you can't trust Iran"
When someone responds with "we can always re-implement sanctions if they don't comply"
once again...."you can't trust Iran"
I think that's the best the GOP could come up with...because going into the mind numbing details of the agreement would actualy result in the realization that you don't need to trust Iran.
That would be exceptionally dangerous for the GOP, because anti deal Republicans would have to admit it's a "trust but verify" type of deal.
toxicmedia
Gold Member
Iran doesn't need to be trusted. If they don't comply with the agreement, we can put sanctions back in place imediatly. The agreement also makes it harder for them to develop a nuke....which has been something they're only 6 months away from getting, for the last 20 years!
toxicmedia
Gold Member
That's just a very comprehensive way of justfying the simple argument the GOP has....
You could have just said "you can't trust Iran"
What might be compelling to me is using the language from the agreement, while citing said language, and show us how it gives Iran something it doesn't have now.
I get how one might think a prosperous Iran, could be more dangerous than they are now. But then you'd have to offer evidence that the Iranian people and goverment would rather get rid of Israel, than have more money.
healthmyths
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Will this work???
We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.
We hereby proclaim the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters and of all Japanese Armed Forces and all Armed Forces under Japanese control wherever situated.
We hereby command all Japanese forces wherever situated and the Japanese people to cease hostilities forthwith, to preserve and save from damage all ships, aircraft, and military and civil property, and to comply with all requirements which may be imposed by the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers or by agencies of the Japanese Government at his direction.
We hereby command the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters to issue at once orders to the commanders of all Japanese forces and all forces under Japanese control wherever situated to surrender unconditionally themselves and all forces under their control.
We hereby command all civil, military, and naval officials to obey and enforce all proclamations, orders, and directives deemed by the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers to be proper to effectuate this surrender and issued by him or under his authority; and we direct all such officials to remain at their posts and to continue to perform their non-combatant duties unless specifically relieved by him or under his authority.
We hereby undertake for the Emperor, the Japanese Government, and their successors to carry out the provisions of the Potsdam Declaration in good faith, and to issue whatever orders and take whatever action may be required by the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers or by any other designated representative of the Allied Powers for the purpose of giving effect to that declaration.
We hereby command the Japanese Imperial Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters at once to liberate all Allied Prisoners of War and civilian internees now under Japanese control and to provide for their protection, care, maintenance, and immediate transportation to places as directed.
The authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government to rule the State shall be subject to the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers, who will take such steps as he deems proper to effectuate these terms of surrender.
Signed at TOKYO BAY, JAPAN at 09.04 on the SECOND day of SEPTEMBER, 1945
Mamoru Shigemitsu (重光 葵)
By Command and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan and the Japanese Government
Yoshijirō Umezu (梅津 美治郎)
By Command and in behalf of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters
Accepted at TOKYO BAY, JAPAN at 09.08 on the SECOND day of SEPTEMBER, 1945, for the United States, Republic of China, United Kingdom and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and in the interests of the other United Nations at war with Japan.
Douglas MacArthur
Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers
C. W. Nimitz
United States Representative
Hsu Yung-chang
Republic of China Representative
Bruce Fraser
United Kingdom Representative
Kuzma Derevyanko
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics Representative
Thomas Blamey
Commonwealth of Australia Representative
Lawrence Moore Cosgrave
Dominion of Canada Representative
Philippe Leclerc de Hauteclocque
Provisional Government of the French Republic Representative
C. E. L. Helfrich
Kingdom of the Netherlands Representative
Leonard M. Isitt
Dominion of New Zealand Representative
Japanese Instrument of Surrender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
RedTeamTex
Active Member
I fully concede sounding crazy and being crazy are two different animals. I do recognize the difference. This doesn't refute the existence of actual zealots who game for other objectives irrespective of national security. At the very least these wingers represent a faction of opportunistic power-playing within the regime to pull the government to break an agreement such as this for no other purpose than sum-zero ladder climbing. They will take sanctions being lifted as encouragement to milk their nuclear weapon development threat and rattle sabers further. Political stability in the Middle East during this information age is an innate gamble. Russia is quite motived to keep us as agitated and off balance as possible--and humiliating President Obama isn't something I think he's inclined to resist even after his term ends. We are now trusting 'the best angels' of Iran with the intent and skill to hold them all at bay.
I sincerely hope you're right and I'm wrong. Either way, I'm resigned to the fact the best that can be managed is a better administration in office when things go south. And if everything does in fact go smoothly, we can do all this again in ten years...
healthmyths
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67. For the purpose of increasing the efficiency of monitoring for this JCPOA, for 15 years or longer, for the specified verification measures:
67. Iran will permit the IAEA...
67. Iran will make the necessary arrangements ....
67. Iran will increase the number of designated ....
80. Iran will declare...
"IRAN WILL"????
Or what will happen if "Iran doesn't"???
g5000
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You have obviously never read an international treaty or agreement or contract in your life, or else you would not be making such profoundly stupid statements.
What the hell do you think a treaty/agreement/contract does? It outlines what each party to the contract will and will not do!
Jesus H. Christ.
What will happen if "Iran doesn't"? Do you not understand what happens if one party to a contract does not meet the terms of the contract? Really? Are you actually this ignorant?
If "Iran doesn't", then the US, EU, and UN sanctions do not get lifted.
Read. The. Agreement. Stop drinking the piss being poured for you and read. The. Agreement.
Stop being such a willfully credulous rube swallowing false one-liners pissed down your throat by hacks.
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healthmyths
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I tell you what you dumb ignorant f...ker!
I would NEVER NEVER sign an agreement that has a side agreement that affects MY life without being able to see that side agreement...UNLIKE you idiots that
don't seem to care that there is a
Below is directly from the "deal".. which by the way (As US Secretary of State John Kerry acknowledged in congressional testimony, US nuclear negotiator Wendy Sherman has seen these side agreements, though he personally has not.) a "side deal !
Iran 'secret' deal's importance - Business Insider
So do not lecture me on "agreements" because idiots like YOU are willing to sign "SIGHT unseen" any document that your Messiah Obama puts in front of you!
This right now is the biggest sticking point of the agreement in that today as we speak Congress is debating why the President couldn't let them see this side agreement
when it was CLEAR...
Conservatives rallied around a proposal from Rep. Peter Roskam (R-Ill.) stipulating that the House would not vote on the Iran deal until the Obama administration provides Congress with the text of side deals between Iran and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
The Obama administration says it does not have any copy of deals between Iran and the IAEA. The agency routinely keeps agreements about nuclear inspections confidential, which the administration says is crucial for completing its mission.
But with Democrats entrenched behind Obama’s accord, Republicans sought to highlight the existence of the side deals to hammer the administration.
“The president ought to release to the American people the details of these secret side agreements right now or withdraw this entire proposal,” said House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.).
House rejects Obama's Iran deal
So shut your ignorant mouth about "agreements" until you understand which obviously you don't that you don't sign agreements regarding life and death of millions
without KNOWING what is in ALL the AGREEMENTS you dumb f....K!!!
healthmyths
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Are YOU going to make an apology to me for calling me ignorant, you dummy?
YOU dummy you never obviously read the following:
Politically the coverage will be dominated by the concessions made over the last two weeks – and those were more or less already known as of last night. Reuters confirmed that the administration has collapsed on anytime-anywhere inspections in the broad sense, and more specifically the deal will allow Iran to have a voice in which Iranian sites get inspected. Lawmakers understand the importance of anytime-anywhere inspections: it was the administration, after all, that for many months told Congress that anytime-anywhere inspections were an achievable goal that would make up for concessions elsewhere on centrifuges, facilities, and so on. Meanwhile voters, for understandable reasons, overwhelmingly believe Congress should reject any deal where Iran has a role in overseeing itself.
The anytime-anywhere inspections were supposed to be non-negotiable. Even the Obama administration knew that; they had told Congress at the beginning of the process that this would be a deal-breaker for the US.
Iran deal announced, gets over $100 billion in sanctioned assets
SNAP BACK the sanctions????
Shortly after the framework was established in early April, President Obama declared in the Rose Garden,
“If Iran violates the deal, sanctions can be snapped back into place.”
As part of the new agreement on sanctions snap back, suspected breaches by Iran would be taken up by a dispute-resolution panel, likely including the six powers and Iran, which would assess the allegations and come up with a non-binding opinion, the officials said.
So let's see if I've got this right. If Iran is believed to have violated a nuclear agreement, the matter will be taken up by a dispute-resolution panel that would include Iran. Now it's bad enough that Russia and China would be involved with such a body given their long-standing aversion to sanctions against Iran.
But that Iran would be involved in determining whether sanctions would be reinstated against it reeks of absurdity.
But this is exactly what happened this past April.
Reinstating Sanctions Against Iran Won't Be a Snap
NOW because people like you haven't obviously read the FINE print, in simple terms, Iran is on the panel that can approve the "snap back"!
That is such a gigantic loophole! Such absurdity!!!
healthmyths
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Yo.. G5000!
Where is your response to my corrections of your GROSS misperceptions of the "Iranian Nuclear Deal"???
You obviously as I pointed would buy a car from a salesman who had a side deal with your bank that took more money out ... and you didn't know the details
but that's ok with you!
The same is true here! Iran has a side deal with the IAEA!
Conservatives rallied around a proposal from Rep. Peter Roskam (R-Ill.) stipulating that the House would not vote on the Iran deal until the Obama administration provides Congress with the text of side deals between Iran and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
The Obama administration says it does not have any copy of deals between Iran and the IAEA.
But being the ignorant NAIVE person you are you say oh hey that's ok!!!
Where is your response to my corrections of your GROSS misperceptions of the "Iranian Nuclear Deal"???
You obviously as I pointed would buy a car from a salesman who had a side deal with your bank that took more money out ... and you didn't know the details
but that's ok with you!
The same is true here! Iran has a side deal with the IAEA!
Conservatives rallied around a proposal from Rep. Peter Roskam (R-Ill.) stipulating that the House would not vote on the Iran deal until the Obama administration provides Congress with the text of side deals between Iran and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
The Obama administration says it does not have any copy of deals between Iran and the IAEA.
But being the ignorant NAIVE person you are you say oh hey that's ok!!!
g5000
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Wow. Now we see the pants shitting in all its naked glory. Touched a nerve, did I?
I say again, the sanctions do not get lifted until all the items I listed from the agreement are accomplished.
Read. The. Agreement, pants shitter.
g5000
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Your own link says:
"Iran must take an array of specific steps. It must disable two-thirds of its centrifuge machines used to enrich uranium, which can be used as fuel for nuclear energy or nuclear weapons. It must slash its stockpile of enriched uranium and redesign its nuclear reactor in the city of Arak so that it produces less plutonium, which can also be used in a weapon."
That is just part of the list I already provided for you, pants shitter.
g5000
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Let us reiterate for the willfully stupid:
First cup of piss: All sanctions removed.
Facts: Before the sanctions are lifted, Iran must destroy 98 percent of its enriched uranium, and all of its 5 to 20 percent enriched uranium, end all enrichment at Fordow, and remove more than two thirds of their centrifuges, including all their advanced centrifuges will "facilitate and accelerate" Iran's nuclear weapons program.
Full text of the Iran nuclear deal
There is the full text of the agreement. Read it instead of drinking the piss poured for you by your hack partisan media masters. Stop being mindless parrots of lies.
Here are all the things Iran must do before EU, UN, and US sanctions can be lifted:
Iran will implement the nuclear-related measures as specified in Annex I:
15. Paragraphs 3 and 10 from Section B on "Arak Heavy Water Research Reactor";
15. Paragraphs 14 and 15 from Section C on "Heavy Water Production Plant";
15. Paragraphs 27, 28, 29, 29.1 and 29.2 from Section F on "Enrichment Capacity";
15. Paragraphs 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41 and 42 from Section G on "Centrifuges Research and Development";
15. Paragraphs 45, 46, 46.1, 46.2, 47.1, 48.1 from Section H on "Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant";
15. Paragraphs 52, 54 and 55 from Section I on "Other Aspects of Enrichment";
15. Paragraphs 57 and 58 from Section J on "Uranium Stocks and Fuels";
15. Paragraph 62 from Section K on "Centrifuge Manufacturing";
15. Complete the modalities and facilities-specific arrangements to allow the IAEA to implement all transparency measures provided for in Annex I;
15. Paragraphs 64 and 65 from Section L on "Additional Protocol and Modified Code 3.1";
15. Paragraphs 80.1 and 80.2 from Section R on "Centrifuge Component Manufacturing Transparency"; and
15. Within one year from Implementation Day, Iran will have completed the measures specified in paragraphs 47.2 and 48.2 of Section H on "Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant".
Now, let's say the sanctions have been lifted.
That means Iran will have 98 percent less of its enriched uranium.
That means Iran will have no 5 to 20 percent enriched uranium.
That means Iran will have ended all enrichment at Fordow.
That means Iran will have one third of their centrifuges, and no advanced centrifuges.
That means all the other things listed above will have been achieved.
All that, BEFORE Iran could do something to trigger an attempt to re-establish ("snap back") the sanctions.
First cup of piss: All sanctions removed.
Facts: Before the sanctions are lifted, Iran must destroy 98 percent of its enriched uranium, and all of its 5 to 20 percent enriched uranium, end all enrichment at Fordow, and remove more than two thirds of their centrifuges, including all their advanced centrifuges will "facilitate and accelerate" Iran's nuclear weapons program.
Full text of the Iran nuclear deal
There is the full text of the agreement. Read it instead of drinking the piss poured for you by your hack partisan media masters. Stop being mindless parrots of lies.
Here are all the things Iran must do before EU, UN, and US sanctions can be lifted:
Iran will implement the nuclear-related measures as specified in Annex I:
15. Paragraphs 3 and 10 from Section B on "Arak Heavy Water Research Reactor";
15. Paragraphs 14 and 15 from Section C on "Heavy Water Production Plant";
15. Paragraphs 27, 28, 29, 29.1 and 29.2 from Section F on "Enrichment Capacity";
15. Paragraphs 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41 and 42 from Section G on "Centrifuges Research and Development";
15. Paragraphs 45, 46, 46.1, 46.2, 47.1, 48.1 from Section H on "Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant";
15. Paragraphs 52, 54 and 55 from Section I on "Other Aspects of Enrichment";
15. Paragraphs 57 and 58 from Section J on "Uranium Stocks and Fuels";
15. Paragraph 62 from Section K on "Centrifuge Manufacturing";
15. Complete the modalities and facilities-specific arrangements to allow the IAEA to implement all transparency measures provided for in Annex I;
15. Paragraphs 64 and 65 from Section L on "Additional Protocol and Modified Code 3.1";
15. Paragraphs 80.1 and 80.2 from Section R on "Centrifuge Component Manufacturing Transparency"; and
15. Within one year from Implementation Day, Iran will have completed the measures specified in paragraphs 47.2 and 48.2 of Section H on "Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant".
Now, let's say the sanctions have been lifted.
That means Iran will have 98 percent less of its enriched uranium.
That means Iran will have no 5 to 20 percent enriched uranium.
That means Iran will have ended all enrichment at Fordow.
That means Iran will have one third of their centrifuges, and no advanced centrifuges.
That means all the other things listed above will have been achieved.
All that, BEFORE Iran could do something to trigger an attempt to re-establish ("snap back") the sanctions.
healthmyths
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And you like naive Obama really believe they will "slash" its stockpile???
There is NO law other than Sharia law as far as the mullahs are concerned.
And your ignorance of Sharia law and the goals of ISIS and the mullahs is so absolutely absent!
ISIS is driven by a virulent Islamic ideology, unprotected by state boundaries, seeking to impose sharia upon the world. Iran is driven by a virulent Islamic ideology, protected by state boundaries, seeking the very same global objective.
The two mindsets evolved from one Islamic tree, branching out into different sects following Muhammad’s death. While differences evolved in culture, political systems, eschatological beliefs concerning the “Twelfth” or “Hidden Imam,” the role economics plays, etc., what we should find disturbing is, regardless of which sectarian branch prevails, for us, the end result is the same. Whether a Sunni ISIS Caliphate or a Shiite Iranian one were to dominate, infidels would be forced either to convert to Islam or die-with death imposed by whatever means available.
It is the commitment to an Iranian Caliphate that should concern us more than the commitment of ISIS to one. The mullahs believe for theirs to evolve, global chaos needs to occur-with man a catalyst in triggering it. Thus, providing them with a path for a nuclear-armed Iran gives the mullahs the means to fulfill the prophecy of Islam to which they adhere.
The Western mind rationalizes Iran would never initiate a nuclear strike for fear of retaliation. But the concept of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) that prevented a Cold War from turning hot will have no impact upon Iran. Its mullahs see this life as but a means of ensuring their arrival in the next-a paradise of unlimited sexual desires with “recycled” virgins promised by Muhammad. Such is their reward for striving in this life to make the world an infidel-free one.
The Iranian Nuclear Deal Viewed Through the Eyes of ISIS and Iran’s Children
So YOU honestly think that when it comes to abiding by international agreements or abiding by Sharia law the mullahs will say ...
"Yes G5000 and all those truly ignorant infidels may think this agreement will be abided by us ... but it is ONLY Sharia law that we obey"!
Listen to the experts on Sharia law. Experts on this totally inane agreement.
But you can't because you are so far up Obama's butt you can't see anything but his CRAP!
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