"Reasonable" gun control vs "gun nut gun control"

[M14 Shooter]

Let us compare California and Vermont, the states with the most and least restrictive gun laws.

California - "Reasonable" gun control
CA gun laws require that:
-All transfers must be through a dealer, thus...
-All transfers undergo a background check
-All transfers undergo a 10-day waiting period (ruled unconstitutional 8/2014)
-All firearms must be registered
-Handgun purchases require a handgun safety certificate-– a permit.that requires training and a test
-Ban on ‘assault weapons’, effective 1 JUN 1989
-Ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-Ban on NFA machineguns
-Restrictive "may issue" concealed carry permits
-Restrictive open carry

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in CA committed with a firearm: 69.39 (1304/1879)

% US population in CA: 12.12%
% US murders in CA: 14.71
% US murders with a gun in CA 14.72

Vermont - "Gun nut gun control"
VT gun control law sates:
-No gun owners are licensed
-No firearm must be registered
-No ban on ‘assault weapons’
-No ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-No ban on NFA weapons
-Concealed carry legal w/o permit for residents and non-residents
-Open carry legal w/o permit for residents and non-residents

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in VT committed with a firearm: 55.55 (5/9)

% US population in VT: 1.9648%
% US murders in VT: 0.075%
% US murders with a gun in VT 0.059%

Short version:
CA has far more restrictive gun control than Vermont
Per-capita gun-related murder in CA significantly higher than the the US as a whole
Per-capita gun-related murder in VT significantly lower than the US as a whole.

How can this be?

 

[Brain357]

Let us compare California and Vermont, the states with the most and least restrictive gun laws.

California - "Reasonable" gun control
CA gun laws require that:
-All transfers must be through a dealer, thus...
-All transfers undergo a background check
-All transfers undergo a 10-day waiting period (ruled unconstitutional 8/2014)
-All firearms must be registered
-Handgun purchases require a handgun safety certificate-– a permit.that requires training and a test
-Ban on ‘assault weapons’, effective 1 JUN 1989
-Ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-Ban on NFA machineguns
-Restrictive "may issue" concealed carry permits
-Restrictive open carry

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in CA committed with a firearm: 69.39 (1304/1879)

% US population in CA: 12.12%
% US murders in CA: 14.71
% US murders with a gun in CA 14.72

Vermont - "Gun nut gun control"
VT gun control law sates:
-No gun owners are licensed
-No firearm must be registered
-No ban on ‘assault weapons’
-No ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-No ban on NFA weapons
-Concealed carry legal w/o permit for residents and non-residents
-Open carry legal w/o permit for residents and non-residents

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in VT committed with a firearm: 55.55 (5/9)

% US population in VT: 1.9648%
% US murders in VT: 0.075%
% US murders with a gun in VT 0.059%

Short version:
CA has far more restrictive gun control than Vermont
Per-capita gun-related murder in CA significantly higher than the the US as a whole
Per-capita gun-related murder in VT significantly lower than the US as a whole.

How can this be?

Most murders happen in large cities. CA is loaded with big cities, VT has no big cities. Pretty silly to even compare the two.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

That dentist should have used a gun the first time.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No response from the "reasonable gun control" people?

 

[2aguy]

No response from the "reasonable gun control" people?

You won't get one..they can't explain why licensing, registration, magazine limits, assault weapon bans or any other number of gun control laws are needed when you can already arrest someone who breaks the law with a gun......and you can already arrest a felon for simply possessing a gun on their person or in their home....

None of those measures above is needed to arrest criminals...none of them.....and none of those measures prevented any of the mass shootings and none of them prevented gun murders by other criminls...

If you don't need them to arrest criminals, and they don't stop mass shootings or gun crime.....why do we need them?

And another thing....more law abiding people are owning and carrying guns....and the gun murder rate and the accidental gun death rate are going down, not up.....

Showing again that the above measures are not needed....so why do we have them?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Vermont, with the least restrictive gun laws in the US...

Murder rate: 0.47/100k
Gun related murder rate: 0.26/100k

Please compare this to the rest of the Western world.

 

[Brain357]

Vermont, with the least restrictive gun laws in the US...

Murder rate: 0.47/100k
Gun related murder rate: 0.26/100k

Please compare this to the rest of the Western world.

They don't have a single large city. No intelligent person would compare it to CA or any state with large cities. Your OP is a joke.

 

[2aguy]

Baltimore.....fingerprints for gun owners, no gun show loophole, waiting period, assault weapon ban, licensing.....the whole bells and whistles of gun control.....and gun murder rates are going up......

 

[Brain357]

Baltimore.....fingerprints for gun owners, no gun show loophole, waiting period, assault weapon ban, licensing.....the whole bells and whistles of gun control.....and gun murder rates are going up......

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

 

[2aguy]

Baltimore.....fingerprints for gun owners, no gun show loophole, waiting period, assault weapon ban, licensing.....the whole bells and whistles of gun control.....and gun murder rates are going up......

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

 

[Brain357]

Baltimore.....fingerprints for gun owners, no gun show loophole, waiting period, assault weapon ban, licensing.....the whole bells and whistles of gun control.....and gun murder rates are going up......

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

 

[2aguy]

Baltimore.....fingerprints for gun owners, no gun show loophole, waiting period, assault weapon ban, licensing.....the whole bells and whistles of gun control.....and gun murder rates are going up......

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

No....you know the reason gun crime is high in Chicago and it has nothing to do with law abiding people carrying guns....I posted the articles that show the gangs actually pick the alderman, who protect them from criminal prosection....

so actual gun control that works....arresting and locking up criminals who use guns...isn't being done in Chicago and Milwaukee.......and we still have 3 years left to arm law abiding citizens....since 18 out of 29 studies show that concealed carry actually lowers the violent crime rate.....

 

[Brain357]

Baltimore.....fingerprints for gun owners, no gun show loophole, waiting period, assault weapon ban, licensing.....the whole bells and whistles of gun control.....and gun murder rates are going up......

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

No....you know the reason gun crime is high in Chicago and it has nothing to do with law abiding people carrying guns....I posted the articles that show the gangs actually pick the alderman, who protect them from criminal prosection....

so actual gun control that works....arresting and locking up criminals who use guns...isn't being done in Chicago and Milwaukee.......and we still have 3 years left to arm law abiding citizens....since 18 out of 29 studies show that concealed carry actually lowers the violent crime rate.....

Policing lowers crime rates. Concealed carry does not.
Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds - Yahoo News

 

[2aguy]

Baltimore.....fingerprints for gun owners, no gun show loophole, waiting period, assault weapon ban, licensing.....the whole bells and whistles of gun control.....and gun murder rates are going up......

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

No....you know the reason gun crime is high in Chicago and it has nothing to do with law abiding people carrying guns....I posted the articles that show the gangs actually pick the alderman, who protect them from criminal prosection....

so actual gun control that works....arresting and locking up criminals who use guns...isn't being done in Chicago and Milwaukee.......and we still have 3 years left to arm law abiding citizens....since 18 out of 29 studies show that concealed carry actually lowers the violent crime rate.....

Policing lowers crime rates. Concealed carry does not.
Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds - Yahoo News

Yeah...considering that the gun murder rate is going down.....as over 12.8 million people now carry guns for self defense, shows that study is another attempt by anit gunners to attack law abiding gun owners....

 

[2aguy]

Baltimore.....fingerprints for gun owners, no gun show loophole, waiting period, assault weapon ban, licensing.....the whole bells and whistles of gun control.....and gun murder rates are going up......

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

No....you know the reason gun crime is high in Chicago and it has nothing to do with law abiding people carrying guns....I posted the articles that show the gangs actually pick the alderman, who protect them from criminal prosection....

so actual gun control that works....arresting and locking up criminals who use guns...isn't being done in Chicago and Milwaukee.......and we still have 3 years left to arm law abiding citizens....since 18 out of 29 studies show that concealed carry actually lowers the violent crime rate.....

Policing lowers crime rates. Concealed carry does not.
Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds - Yahoo News

And 18 guns studies on concealed carry say it does, while 10 say it doesn't change anything and only 1 says it increases crime.....

Lott paper on carry and crime...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf




Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

 

[2aguy]

Baltimore.....fingerprints for gun owners, no gun show loophole, waiting period, assault weapon ban, licensing.....the whole bells and whistles of gun control.....and gun murder rates are going up......

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

No....you know the reason gun crime is high in Chicago and it has nothing to do with law abiding people carrying guns....I posted the articles that show the gangs actually pick the alderman, who protect them from criminal prosection....

so actual gun control that works....arresting and locking up criminals who use guns...isn't being done in Chicago and Milwaukee.......and we still have 3 years left to arm law abiding citizens....since 18 out of 29 studies show that concealed carry actually lowers the violent crime rate.....

Policing lowers crime rates. Concealed carry does not.
Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds - Yahoo News

And by the way....I constantly post stories about guns deterring all sorts of crime and saving lives all the time.....

 

[Brain357]

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

No....you know the reason gun crime is high in Chicago and it has nothing to do with law abiding people carrying guns....I posted the articles that show the gangs actually pick the alderman, who protect them from criminal prosection....

so actual gun control that works....arresting and locking up criminals who use guns...isn't being done in Chicago and Milwaukee.......and we still have 3 years left to arm law abiding citizens....since 18 out of 29 studies show that concealed carry actually lowers the violent crime rate.....

Policing lowers crime rates. Concealed carry does not.
Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds - Yahoo News

And by the way....I constantly post stories about guns deterring all sorts of crime and saving lives all the time.....

One story a week doesn't equal many. And many of those are questionable.

 

[Brain357]

WI and Chicago got concealed carry and violent crime rates are going up.

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

No....you know the reason gun crime is high in Chicago and it has nothing to do with law abiding people carrying guns....I posted the articles that show the gangs actually pick the alderman, who protect them from criminal prosection....

so actual gun control that works....arresting and locking up criminals who use guns...isn't being done in Chicago and Milwaukee.......and we still have 3 years left to arm law abiding citizens....since 18 out of 29 studies show that concealed carry actually lowers the violent crime rate.....

Policing lowers crime rates. Concealed carry does not.
Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds - Yahoo News

And 18 guns studies on concealed carry say it does, while 10 say it doesn't change anything and only 1 says it increases crime.....

Lott paper on carry and crime...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf




Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Ownership does not effect crime rates. Most of your studies are by gun nut lott who is a joke. He writes about surveys that he can't even prove were ever done.

 

[2aguy]

And you know why in chicago and Milwaukee....not enough police in milwaukee and in Chicago, the gangs are running their neighborhoods........hard to lower the gun murder rate when the gangs are picking the alderman........

And of course the law abiding people.....in Milwaukee and Chicago...aren't shooting anyone.......and also.....only 2 years in, it takes about 5 years and some criminals getting shot by good guys to spread the word....

You know all that and still post your silly posts.....

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

No....you know the reason gun crime is high in Chicago and it has nothing to do with law abiding people carrying guns....I posted the articles that show the gangs actually pick the alderman, who protect them from criminal prosection....

so actual gun control that works....arresting and locking up criminals who use guns...isn't being done in Chicago and Milwaukee.......and we still have 3 years left to arm law abiding citizens....since 18 out of 29 studies show that concealed carry actually lowers the violent crime rate.....

Policing lowers crime rates. Concealed carry does not.
Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds - Yahoo News

And 18 guns studies on concealed carry say it does, while 10 say it doesn't change anything and only 1 says it increases crime.....

Lott paper on carry and crime...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf




Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Ownership does not effect crime rates. Most of your studies are by gun nut lott who is a joke. He writes about surveys that he can't even prove were ever done.

Yeah.....they are all right there brain.....and you say you can't find the L.A. times study, done before the internet......one of 16 and one that is actually real....you aren't competent to find it.....call the times...ask them....

 

[Brain357]

I know your excuses are a joke. You already claimed victory in Chicago and then violent crime went right up. Sorry but it shouldn't go up if it really lowered crime like you claim. It does not effect crime.

No....you know the reason gun crime is high in Chicago and it has nothing to do with law abiding people carrying guns....I posted the articles that show the gangs actually pick the alderman, who protect them from criminal prosection....

so actual gun control that works....arresting and locking up criminals who use guns...isn't being done in Chicago and Milwaukee.......and we still have 3 years left to arm law abiding citizens....since 18 out of 29 studies show that concealed carry actually lowers the violent crime rate.....

Policing lowers crime rates. Concealed carry does not.
Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds - Yahoo News

And 18 guns studies on concealed carry say it does, while 10 say it doesn't change anything and only 1 says it increases crime.....

Lott paper on carry and crime...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf




Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Ownership does not effect crime rates. Most of your studies are by gun nut lott who is a joke. He writes about surveys that he can't even prove were ever done.

Yeah.....they are all right there brain.....and you say you can't find the L.A. times study, done before the internet......one of 16 and one that is actually real....you aren't competent to find it.....call the times...ask them....

Sorry lotts work is a joke.
Who Is Gun Advocate John Lott Research Media Matters for America

Lott Became Subject Of Ethics Inquiry After Failing To Produce Evidence That He Actually Conducted A 1997 Survey. A January 17, 2003 letter written by Northwestern University Professor of Law James Lindgren, raised concerns that Lott fabricated a survey that found 98 percent of defensive gun uses involved only brandishing a weapon. Lott has failed to produce the data from the study, claiming to have lost it in a computer crash.