Reality Check

[Zander]

The CBO announced that passing ObamaCare, the largest expansion of entitlements in US history, will actually reduce the deficit over ten years!!! Woohoo!!!

It is time to get real folks. Does anyone actually believe that, if passed, ObamaCare is actually going to reduce the deficit over 10 years? We all know that the Feds do not have a very good track record with fiscal responsibility!

For example, When Medicare passed it had a projected "10 year cost" of $12 billion. It actually cost us $70 billion - an increase of over 500%. In 2010 alone Medicare projected to account for 12.5% ($452 billion) of total gov't expenditures. For the decade 2010-2019 medicare is projected to cost $6.4 trillion dollars or 14.8% of the federal budget for the period. This is the same program that was "budget neutral" when it passed and would "save us money in the long run". Yeah, we all know how well that worked out! We now have an unfunded liability of over $36 TRILLION just for Medicare.

So I ask you all, who here really believes that ObamaCare will reduce the deficit?

 

[xotoxi]

YES!!!

DEFICIT REDUCTION ROCKS!!!

 

[Truthmatters]

Do you remember the right voting for a shit load of Bush trash legislation that the CBO scored as huge debt growers?

The people who care about facts remember.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Not a chance in hell.

 

[uscitizen]

The CBO knows more about such things than I do.
And all of us here I expect.

 

[Truthmatters]

Did the Iraq war pay for itself like Bush claimed?

 

[Care4all]

the projected deficit is COLOSSALY HUGE....it is possible it wiil reduce that projection by a few billion with the medicare cuts they have in the bill....which will make the debt just GRANDIOSELY HUGE!

the medicare pill bill was costed out to $540 billion by CBO....the house threatened to FIRE the actuary who came up with THAT SCORE....he was told to keep his mouth shut or no job....the republicans then told all of congress its score was $400 billion so that they could get certain republican congressmen to vote for it who initially refused because the pill bill was the biggest entitlement program addition in recent history and $400 bil was their cap for their support... then one week after it passed the cbo scandal came out and we found out cbo costed it out to $540 billion.... and so far, the cbo WAS FAIRLY ACCURATE....it is running at 560 billion....so the cbo's initial projected mark, was pretty accurate.

 

[Zander]

Did the Iraq war pay for itself like Bush claimed?

I don't recall hearing Bush say that. Got a link?

 

[Zander]

RICHARD PERLE, Chair of Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board: “Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will.” [7/11/02]

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, Deputy Defense Secretary: “There is a lot of money to pay for this that doesn’t have to be US taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon.” [3/27/03]

ARI FLEISCHER, White House press secretary: “Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction.” [2/18/03]

LAWRENCE LINDSEY, White House economic adviser: “The likely economic effects [of a war in Iraq] would be relatively small…. Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits.” [9/16/02]

Krugman concludes, “The whole premise of the bailout push has been ‘We’re the grownups, we know what we’re doing, just trust us.’ Sorry, but that’s how Colin Powell sold the Iraq war. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice … you shouldn’t get fooled.”
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Nothing from BUSH - Wanna try again? Or just admit you made it up?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

RICHARD PERLE, Chair of Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board: “Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will.” [7/11/02]

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, Deputy Defense Secretary: “There is a lot of money to pay for this that doesn’t have to be US taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon.” [3/27/03]

ARI FLEISCHER, White House press secretary: “Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction.” [2/18/03]

LAWRENCE LINDSEY, White House economic adviser: “The likely economic effects [of a war in Iraq] would be relatively small…. Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits.” [9/16/02]

Reconstruction, they're talking about reconstruction. Your hatred and bitterness got you blowed up... again

 

[Baruch Menachem]

The CBO has to work within certain parameters. One of which is that they only deal with what they are given, and not with reality outside. If the government collects taxes for four years before spending any money, then the total outlays and total intake can be made to balance.

the other constraint is they can't deal with feedback effects of the taxes. If national income is x, a tax increase of 1% will produce 1% of x. They can't come back and say the taxes will bring in a lot less because of how people respond to the tax increases. the tax increases in this bill hit very hard in Social Security and Medicare. These taxes are going to push unemployment way up again, and the revenue will be way under what they guess.

So the CBO did its best to give accurate numbers for a fantasy universe. But there is no way this will work in reality.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Did the Iraq war pay for itself like Bush claimed?

so where's the quote from Bush

 

[Truthmatters]

"Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will."

Richard Perle, chair
The Pentagon's Defense Policy Board
July 11, 2002

"The likely economic effects [of a war in Iraq] would be relatively small.... Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits."

Lawrence Lindsey
White House economic adviser
September 16, 2002

"It is unimaginable that the United States would have to contribute hundreds of billions of dollars and highly unlikely that we would have to contribute even tens of billions of dollars."

Kenneth Pollack
former director for Persian Gulf affairs
National Security Council
September 2002

"The costs of any intervention would be very small."

Glenn Hubbard
White House economic adviser
October 4, 2002

"Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction."

Ari Fleischer (Who the fuck doies this guy speak for folks? Bush is the Bush admin and that is what I meant)
White House press secretary
February 18, 2003

"When it comes to reconstruction, before we turn to the American taxpayer, we will turn first to the resources of the Iraqi government and the international community."

Donald Rumsfeld
Secretary of Defense
March 27, 2003

"There is a lot of money to pay for this that doesn't have to be US taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

Paul Wolfowitz
Deputy Secretary of Defense
testifying before the defense subcommittee
of the House Appropriations Committee
March 27, 2003

"The United States is very committed to helping Iraq recover from the conflict, but Iraq will not require sustained aid."

Mitchell Daniels, director
White House Office of Management and Budget
April 21, 2003

"The allies [have contributed] $14 billion in direct aid."

Dick Cheney
vice presidential debate with
Democratic candidate John Edwards
October 5, 2004

Actually, only $13 billion was pledged, and on the date Cheney spoke only $1 billion had arrived. As of October 28, 2007, the National Priorities Project estimated that the share of Iraq War costs that had been borne by American taxpayers exceeded $463 billion. --C.C.&V.N.


http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080331/navasky_cerf2/

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will."

Richard Perle, chair
The Pentagon's Defense Policy Board
July 11, 2002

"The likely economic effects [of a war in Iraq] would be relatively small.... Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits."

Lawrence Lindsey
White House economic adviser
September 16, 2002

"It is unimaginable that the United States would have to contribute hundreds of billions of dollars and highly unlikely that we would have to contribute even tens of billions of dollars."

Kenneth Pollack
former director for Persian Gulf affairs
National Security Council
September 2002

"The costs of any intervention would be very small."

Glenn Hubbard
White House economic adviser
October 4, 2002

"Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction."

Ari Fleischer
White House press secretary
February 18, 2003

"When it comes to reconstruction, before we turn to the American taxpayer, we will turn first to the resources of the Iraqi government and the international community."

Donald Rumsfeld
Secretary of Defense
March 27, 2003

"There is a lot of money to pay for this that doesn't have to be US taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

Paul Wolfowitz
Deputy Secretary of Defense
testifying before the defense subcommittee
of the House Appropriations Committee
March 27, 2003

"The United States is very committed to helping Iraq recover from the conflict, but Iraq will not require sustained aid."

Mitchell Daniels, director
White House Office of Management and Budget
April 21, 2003

"The allies [have contributed] $14 billion in direct aid."

Dick Cheney
vice presidential debate with
Democratic candidate John Edwards
October 5, 2004

Actually, only $13 billion was pledged, and on the date Cheney spoke only $1 billion had arrived. As of October 28, 2007, the National Priorities Project estimated that the share of Iraq War costs that had been borne by American taxpayers exceeded $463 billion. --C.C.&V.N.

Hmm, still no Bush like you claimed

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Did the Iraq war pay for itself like Bush claimed?

I don't recall hearing Bush say that. Got a link?

The following quotes were compiled by Christopher Cerf and Victor Navasky in their capacity as CEO and president of the Institute of Expertology, which has just issued a report on the experts who were wrong about Iraq--before, during and after the invasion--under the title Mission Accomplished! Or, How We Won the War in Iraq; The Experts Speak (Simon & Schuster). Here, the "experts" speak about the costs of war.



"Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will."

Richard Perle, chair
The Pentagon's Defense Policy Board
July 11, 2002

"The likely economic effects [of a war in Iraq] would be relatively small.... Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits."

Lawrence Lindsey
White House economic adviser
September 16, 2002

"It is unimaginable that the United States would have to contribute hundreds of billions of dollars and highly unlikely that we would have to contribute even tens of billions of dollars."

Kenneth Pollack
former director for Persian Gulf affairs
National Security Council
September 2002

"The costs of any intervention would be very small."

Glenn Hubbard
White House economic adviser
October 4, 2002

"Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction."

Ari Fleischer
White House press secretary
February 18, 2003

"When it comes to reconstruction, before we turn to the American taxpayer, we will turn first to the resources of the Iraqi government and the international community."

Donald Rumsfeld
Secretary of Defense
March 27, 2003

"There is a lot of money to pay for this that doesn't have to be US taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

Paul Wolfowitz
Deputy Secretary of Defense
testifying before the defense subcommittee
of the House Appropriations Committee
March 27, 2003

"The United States is very committed to helping Iraq recover from the conflict, but Iraq will not require sustained aid."

Mitchell Daniels, director
White House Office of Management and Budget
April 21, 2003

"The allies [have contributed] $14 billion in direct aid."

continued....

Who Said the War Would Pay for Itself?...

Amazing, you don't have a quote from Bush either and again, most of the quotes talk about reconstruction. Next time just say "Ditto" to whatever Truth posts, it saves us time and electrons

 

[Care4all]

I don't recall hearing Bush say that. Got a link?

The following quotes were compiled by Christopher Cerf and Victor Navasky in their capacity as CEO and president of the Institute of Expertology, which has just issued a report on the experts who were wrong about Iraq--before, during and after the invasion--under the title Mission Accomplished! Or, How We Won the War in Iraq; The Experts Speak (Simon & Schuster). Here, the "experts" speak about the costs of war.



"Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will."

Richard Perle, chair
The Pentagon's Defense Policy Board
July 11, 2002

"The likely economic effects [of a war in Iraq] would be relatively small.... Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits."

Lawrence Lindsey
White House economic adviser
September 16, 2002

"It is unimaginable that the United States would have to contribute hundreds of billions of dollars and highly unlikely that we would have to contribute even tens of billions of dollars."

Kenneth Pollack
former director for Persian Gulf affairs
National Security Council
September 2002

"The costs of any intervention would be very small."

Glenn Hubbard
White House economic adviser
October 4, 2002

"Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction."

Ari Fleischer
White House press secretary
February 18, 2003

"When it comes to reconstruction, before we turn to the American taxpayer, we will turn first to the resources of the Iraqi government and the international community."

Donald Rumsfeld
Secretary of Defense
March 27, 2003

"There is a lot of money to pay for this that doesn't have to be US taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

Paul Wolfowitz
Deputy Secretary of Defense
testifying before the defense subcommittee
of the House Appropriations Committee
March 27, 2003

"The United States is very committed to helping Iraq recover from the conflict, but Iraq will not require sustained aid."

Mitchell Daniels, director
White House Office of Management and Budget
April 21, 2003

"The allies [have contributed] $14 billion in direct aid."

continued....

Who Said the War Would Pay for Itself?...

Amazing, you don't have a quote from Bush either and again, most of the quotes talk about reconstruction. Next time just say "Ditto" to whatever Truth posts, it saves us time and electrons

every quote is from the White House dear....his minions SOLD US a bill of goods...

 

[Truthmatters]

They think Ari Flesher was not the voice of Bush somehow.

 

[Truthmatters]

So now they are on board with the Idea the Bush did not run his own admin.

 

[del]

"Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will."

Richard Perle, chair
The Pentagon's Defense Policy Board
July 11, 2002

"The likely economic effects [of a war in Iraq] would be relatively small.... Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits."

Lawrence Lindsey
White House economic adviser
September 16, 2002

"It is unimaginable that the United States would have to contribute hundreds of billions of dollars and highly unlikely that we would have to contribute even tens of billions of dollars."

Kenneth Pollack
former director for Persian Gulf affairs
National Security Council
September 2002

"The costs of any intervention would be very small."

Glenn Hubbard
White House economic adviser
October 4, 2002

"Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction."

Ari Fleischer (Who the fuck doies this guy speak for folks? Bush is the Bush admin and that is what I meant)
White House press secretary
February 18, 2003

"When it comes to reconstruction, before we turn to the American taxpayer, we will turn first to the resources of the Iraqi government and the international community."

Donald Rumsfeld
Secretary of Defense
March 27, 2003

"There is a lot of money to pay for this that doesn't have to be US taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

Paul Wolfowitz
Deputy Secretary of Defense
testifying before the defense subcommittee
of the House Appropriations Committee
March 27, 2003

"The United States is very committed to helping Iraq recover from the conflict, but Iraq will not require sustained aid."

Mitchell Daniels, director
White House Office of Management and Budget
April 21, 2003

"The allies [have contributed] $14 billion in direct aid."

Dick Cheney
vice presidential debate with
Democratic candidate John Edwards
October 5, 2004

Actually, only $13 billion was pledged, and on the date Cheney spoke only $1 billion had arrived. As of October 28, 2007, the National Priorities Project estimated that the share of Iraq War costs that had been borne by American taxpayers exceeded $463 billion. --C.C.&V.N.


The Experts Speak on Iraq

and yet there's nothing from bush, and there's nothing from anyone stating that the iraq war would pay for itself.

fail, as usual, titzit.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Who Said the War Would Pay for Itself?...

Amazing, you don't have a quote from Bush either and again, most of the quotes talk about reconstruction. Next time just say "Ditto" to whatever Truth posts, it saves us time and electrons

every quote is from the White House dear....his minions SOLD US a bill of goods...

Seriously, just say "Ditto" and save me the time.

Truth said "Bush" said it and again, and probably not for the last time, the people you quoted from, who still aren't Bush, are talking about the cost of reconstruction, not the cost of the war effort.