Meathead
Diamond Member
That term is normally attributed to another one of Joe's heroes, Lenin. But your point is spot on.
Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101
- Thread starter Dante
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JoeB131
Diamond Member
You really are what EVERYONE calls a plain old idiot.
Hey, how come the Cuban people didn't overthrow Castro when the rest of the world was getting rid of their communist dictators?
thanatos144
Gold Member
Because the government had guns and the people didn't you dumb f***
JoeB131
Diamond Member
But that was equally true in East Germany and Romania and Bulgaria and Russia.
You see, the problem is, you look at Cuba and see "Eeeek, Communism".
I look at Cuba as a country that got sick and tired of being abused by a larger, richer neighbor.
At some point, we need to stop drunk dialing and respect their decision.
thanatos144
Gold Member
Good to know how communism fell in eastern Europe right?
CrusaderFrank
Diamond Member
- May 20, 2009
- 160,486
- 86,935
- 2,645
I look at Joe and see a genuine Communist dupe, someone in love with the idea of the "workers Paradise" and oblivious to its horrific reality. Further he's never heard of the Hungarian uprising or the Berlin blockade
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Again, you are mistaking the failure of a country for the failure of a political system.
Some of those countries have voted the Communists back into power.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
This would be the same Hungary that threw in with Hitler during the war wondering why the Russians weren't so keen on them?
Frankly, we had a "Worker's Paradise" in this country during the 1950's. Working guys belonged to unions, got good pay, the rich paid their fair share, we built some awesome public works and life was good. (Unless you were black in the South).
Until Reagan fucked it up, anyway.
thanatos144
Gold Member
Joe is a damn fool
Once again, Joe...you show yourself to be utterly CLUELESS about Cuba. Before the revolution Cuba's GDP was higher than Japan's and the average Cuban was far better off economically than they are now. When the Soviet Union collapsed and billions in subsidies stopped coming to Cuba the GDP in Cuba fell by almost a third.
"Today the Cuban worker's average monthly salary is 203 Cuban pesos-around $9.25. That means an average hourly wage of five cents. A Cuban worker has to toil twenty-six hours for a can of evaporated milk ($1.30); seven hours for an ounce of coffee ($0.33); forty-four hours for a tube of toothpaste ($2.20); two hundred hours for a ten-dollar pair of trousers; one hundred sixty hours for an eight-dollar shirt; sixty hours for a three-dollar pair of panties and fifty hours for a $2.50 bra.
The above statistics are from the Cuban Institute of Independent Union Studies (Instituto Cubano de Estudios Sindicales Independientes, or ICESI).
Boy...what a "worker's Paradise" Joe!!!
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JoeB131
Diamond Member
I want to take a minute to dwell on that bit of intelectual dishonesty.
Before the Cuban Revolution, Japan looked like THIS...
Because we had bombed the SHIT out of it. Besides the fact I kind of doubt your figures, I think the very fact you cherry picked that comparison speaks volumes.
And again, the reason why life in Cuba is so miserable is because we've been spending 50 years economically punishing them for rejecting us.
It's like saying you ex-girlfriend is a loser after you slashed her tires, called her boss and said she had AIDS, and burned down her house.
Sick.
CrusaderFrank
Diamond Member
- May 20, 2009
- 160,486
- 86,935
- 2,645
I want to take a minute to dwell on that bit of intelectual dishonesty.
Before the Cuban Revolution, Japan looked like THIS...
Because we had bombed the SHIT out of it. Besides the fact I kind of doubt your figures, I think the very fact you cherry picked that comparison speaks volumes.
And again, the reason why life in Cuba is so miserable is because we've been spending 50 years economically punishing them for rejecting us.
It's like saying you ex-girlfriend is a loser after you slashed her tires, called her boss and said she had AIDS, and burned down her house.
Sick.
Marxist Joe making excuses for Marxisms failures since 1917
JoeB131
Diamond Member
So essentially, the only way you get to 100K (which is really a pretty small number for a civil war) is to make numbers up.
THis is about as intellectually dishonest as the Lancet "Estimating" we killed a Million Iraqis by blaming us for every statistical death in Iraq since 2003.
Those people who were killed in the revolution were the ones who supported Batista as he let Corporations and Gangsters (but I repeat myself) rape the country.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
The only "Failure" that bothers me is the Failure of Corporatism in 2008, where I lost tens of thousands of dollars in my property and asset values....
And the people who caused it got bailouts I paid for.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
The reality about Batista...
#50 truths about the dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista in #Cuba (#USA #Portugal #Colombia #Ecuador #Venezuela #France #UK #Puerto Rico #South Africa). | Cuba Inside The World
12. In July 1952, Washington signed military agreements with Havana, but was aware of the brutal and arbitrary nature of the new power. Cuba is “under the yoke of a merciless dictator,” the U.S. embassy said in a confidential report January 1953 bound to the State Department. Indeed, General with an iron hand repressed the opposition, particularly the student youth symbolized by the murder of the young Ruben Batista in January 1953.
13. The July 26, 1953, a young lawyer named Fidel Castro led an armed expedition against the Moncada barracks, the country’s second military fortress. It was a bloody failure. The U.S. consulate in Santiago de Cuba noted that “the Army made no distinction between simple captured or suspected insurgents,” recognizing the massacres committed by the soldiers after receiving orders from Colonel Alberto del Rio Chaviano. He also emphasized “the very low number of casualties among the insurgents on the number of wounded soldiers. [...]. The attackers captured were executed in cold blood and wounded robbers were also liquidated. “
14. In November 1954, organized a parody Batista won election without difficulty. United States recognized that “the elections were a sham Batista foresaw intended to cling to power.”
21. Batista ferocious violence exercised towards the opposition. But the United States was discreet about the crimes he committed his Cuban ally. However, the U.S. embassy in Havana multiplied the reports on this subject: “We are now convinced that the recurring murders of people whom the government describes as opponents and terrorists are actually the work of the police and army. The official explanation is that men were killed by other opponents. However, the legal attaché received indirect confessions of guilt in police circles, as well as evidence of the responsibility of the police. “
22. Wayne S. Smith, a young American embassy official, was shocked by the massacres committed by the security forces. He described scenes of horror: “The police reacted so excessive pressure from the insurgents, torturing and killing hundreds of people, both the innocent and the guilty. Bodies were abandoned, hanged on trees, on the roads. Such tactics led inexorably to the public to refuse to Batista and support the opposition. “
30. The September 29, 1957, the Medical College of Cuba issued a report on the Cuban political situation during the XI General Assembly of the World Medical Association.According to him, “the armed struggle fighters who surrender are liquidated. No prisoners, only dead. Many opponents are not before the Court of Justice but executed with a shot to the neck or hanged. They intimidate judges and judges without protest voices are heard.The hopelessness is spreading among young people who blow themselves up in an unequal struggle. He who is haunted not find shelter. Embassy of Haiti In ten asylum seekers were killed by the security forces [...]. The press is totally censored. Non-news reporting, even by international agencies [...]. In the premises of the repressive forces of the police and army, torturing prisoners to extract confessions by force of alleged crimes.Several injuries present at clinics and hospitals were taken by force and appeared several hours later killed in the cities and in the countryside. “ The Washington Post and Times Herald noted that “the Cuban doctors are victims of atrocities, including killing Cuban rebels cure”.
34. Batista was intimately linked to gangsterism elements such as Meyer Lansky and Trafficante Jr. Luigi His first contacts with the Mafia dating back to 1933 when he proclaimed he was approached colonel and Charles “Lucky” Luciano and Santo Trafficante senior. The game world, highly lucrative, was controlled by Lansky, number two in the American mafia, ‘major U.S. gangsters “who” had created for the dictator Batista current organization of the games in Havana ” according to the French newspaper Le Monde.
#50 truths about the dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista in #Cuba (#USA #Portugal #Colombia #Ecuador #Venezuela #France #UK #Puerto Rico #South Africa). | Cuba Inside The World
12. In July 1952, Washington signed military agreements with Havana, but was aware of the brutal and arbitrary nature of the new power. Cuba is “under the yoke of a merciless dictator,” the U.S. embassy said in a confidential report January 1953 bound to the State Department. Indeed, General with an iron hand repressed the opposition, particularly the student youth symbolized by the murder of the young Ruben Batista in January 1953.
13. The July 26, 1953, a young lawyer named Fidel Castro led an armed expedition against the Moncada barracks, the country’s second military fortress. It was a bloody failure. The U.S. consulate in Santiago de Cuba noted that “the Army made no distinction between simple captured or suspected insurgents,” recognizing the massacres committed by the soldiers after receiving orders from Colonel Alberto del Rio Chaviano. He also emphasized “the very low number of casualties among the insurgents on the number of wounded soldiers. [...]. The attackers captured were executed in cold blood and wounded robbers were also liquidated. “
14. In November 1954, organized a parody Batista won election without difficulty. United States recognized that “the elections were a sham Batista foresaw intended to cling to power.”
21. Batista ferocious violence exercised towards the opposition. But the United States was discreet about the crimes he committed his Cuban ally. However, the U.S. embassy in Havana multiplied the reports on this subject: “We are now convinced that the recurring murders of people whom the government describes as opponents and terrorists are actually the work of the police and army. The official explanation is that men were killed by other opponents. However, the legal attaché received indirect confessions of guilt in police circles, as well as evidence of the responsibility of the police. “
22. Wayne S. Smith, a young American embassy official, was shocked by the massacres committed by the security forces. He described scenes of horror: “The police reacted so excessive pressure from the insurgents, torturing and killing hundreds of people, both the innocent and the guilty. Bodies were abandoned, hanged on trees, on the roads. Such tactics led inexorably to the public to refuse to Batista and support the opposition. “
30. The September 29, 1957, the Medical College of Cuba issued a report on the Cuban political situation during the XI General Assembly of the World Medical Association.According to him, “the armed struggle fighters who surrender are liquidated. No prisoners, only dead. Many opponents are not before the Court of Justice but executed with a shot to the neck or hanged. They intimidate judges and judges without protest voices are heard.The hopelessness is spreading among young people who blow themselves up in an unequal struggle. He who is haunted not find shelter. Embassy of Haiti In ten asylum seekers were killed by the security forces [...]. The press is totally censored. Non-news reporting, even by international agencies [...]. In the premises of the repressive forces of the police and army, torturing prisoners to extract confessions by force of alleged crimes.Several injuries present at clinics and hospitals were taken by force and appeared several hours later killed in the cities and in the countryside. “ The Washington Post and Times Herald noted that “the Cuban doctors are victims of atrocities, including killing Cuban rebels cure”.
34. Batista was intimately linked to gangsterism elements such as Meyer Lansky and Trafficante Jr. Luigi His first contacts with the Mafia dating back to 1933 when he proclaimed he was approached colonel and Charles “Lucky” Luciano and Santo Trafficante senior. The game world, highly lucrative, was controlled by Lansky, number two in the American mafia, ‘major U.S. gangsters “who” had created for the dictator Batista current organization of the games in Havana ” according to the French newspaper Le Monde.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Oh, and for the idiot who tried to claim Cuba was richer than JAPAN in the Batista years...
35. United States and supporters of the old regime still present Batista’s Cuba as “the showcase of Latin America” ​​at the time. The reality is slightly different. The statistics of the National Bank of Cuba are available for this period and it is possible to compare the economic situation under the democratic government of President Carlos Prio and under the military regime of Batista. Thus, between 1951 and 1952, Cuba’s GDP increased by 2.52%. From 1952-1953, under Batista, GDP fell 11.41%, with a rise of only 0.9 of 1953-1954, and 3.5 in 1954-1955. Only in 1956, GDP again reached its 1952 level of 2460.2 million. Thus, it is impossible to speak of economic growth between 1952 and 1956. For two thirds of the reign of Batista no growth. The improvement occurred only after 1957 when the GDP amounted to 2803.3 million in 1958 and then fell back to 2678.9 million.
36. In addition, monetary reserves fell from 448 million pesos in 1952 to 373 million in 1958, which were stolen during the flight of Batista and his accomplices January 1, 1959. The nation’s debt increased from $ 300 million in March 1952-1300 million in January 1959 and the budget deficit reached 800 million.
37. Batista sugar policy was a failure. While this sector generated income up to 623 million pesos in 1952, fell to 383.5 million in 1953, 412.8 million in 1954, 402.1 million in 1955, 426.1 million in 1956 and 520.7 million in 1958. 1957 Only income generated over 1952 with 630.8 million pesos.
38. The workers and agricultural workers paid the price. While his compensation amounted to 224.9 million pesos in 1952, fell to 127.7 million in 1953, 128.2 million in 1954, 118.9 million in 1955, 127 million in 1956, 175.3 million in 1957 and 156.9 million in 1958. During the Batista regime never had 1952 revenue. The same happened with the non-agricultural workers and employees. While his overall income was 186.6 million pesos in 1952, fell to 126.2 million in 1953, 123.5 million in 1954, 112.7 million in 1955, 114.6 million in 1956, 145.7 million in 1957 and 141.8 million in 1958. Under Batista laborers and nonfarm employees never reached their 1952 income level.
35. United States and supporters of the old regime still present Batista’s Cuba as “the showcase of Latin America” ​​at the time. The reality is slightly different. The statistics of the National Bank of Cuba are available for this period and it is possible to compare the economic situation under the democratic government of President Carlos Prio and under the military regime of Batista. Thus, between 1951 and 1952, Cuba’s GDP increased by 2.52%. From 1952-1953, under Batista, GDP fell 11.41%, with a rise of only 0.9 of 1953-1954, and 3.5 in 1954-1955. Only in 1956, GDP again reached its 1952 level of 2460.2 million. Thus, it is impossible to speak of economic growth between 1952 and 1956. For two thirds of the reign of Batista no growth. The improvement occurred only after 1957 when the GDP amounted to 2803.3 million in 1958 and then fell back to 2678.9 million.
36. In addition, monetary reserves fell from 448 million pesos in 1952 to 373 million in 1958, which were stolen during the flight of Batista and his accomplices January 1, 1959. The nation’s debt increased from $ 300 million in March 1952-1300 million in January 1959 and the budget deficit reached 800 million.
37. Batista sugar policy was a failure. While this sector generated income up to 623 million pesos in 1952, fell to 383.5 million in 1953, 412.8 million in 1954, 402.1 million in 1955, 426.1 million in 1956 and 520.7 million in 1958. 1957 Only income generated over 1952 with 630.8 million pesos.
38. The workers and agricultural workers paid the price. While his compensation amounted to 224.9 million pesos in 1952, fell to 127.7 million in 1953, 128.2 million in 1954, 118.9 million in 1955, 127 million in 1956, 175.3 million in 1957 and 156.9 million in 1958. During the Batista regime never had 1952 revenue. The same happened with the non-agricultural workers and employees. While his overall income was 186.6 million pesos in 1952, fell to 126.2 million in 1953, 123.5 million in 1954, 112.7 million in 1955, 114.6 million in 1956, 145.7 million in 1957 and 141.8 million in 1958. Under Batista laborers and nonfarm employees never reached their 1952 income level.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
And what was life like for average Cubans?
42. About 60% of farmers living in thatched roof huts with dirt floors devoid of toilets or running water. About 90% had no electricity. About 85% of these barracks had one or two pieces for the whole family. Only 11% of farmers consumed milk, 4% 2% meat and eggs. The 43% were illiterate and 44% had never been to school. The New York Times notes that “the vast majority of them in areas rulares-peasants or peasants lived in poverty, subsistence level”.
43. According to the English economist Dudley Seers, in 1958 the situation was “intolerable.”What was intolerable was an unemployment rate three times higher than in the United States. Moreover, in the field, social conditions were very bad. About a third of the nation lived in the dirt, eating rice, beans, plantains and vegetables (almost never meat, fish, eggs or milk), living in barracks, usually without electricity or latrines, victim of parasitic diseases and did not benefit of a health service. Instruction is denied (their children went to school one year maximum). The situation of precarious, temporary barracks installed in the commons, was particularly difficult [...]. A significant proportion of the urban population was also very miserable. “
44. President John F. Kennedy also said this: “I think there is no country in the world, including the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than they were in Cuba, due to the policy of my country during the Batista regime. We refuse to help Cuba in desperate need of economic progress. In 1953, the median Cuban family had an income of $ 6 per week [...]. This abysmal level worsened as the population grew. But instead of extending a friendly hand to the desperate people of Cuba, almost all our help took the form of military assistance assistance simply strengthened the Batista dictatorship [generating] a growing feeling that America was indifferent to Cuban aspirations to a decent life. “
45. Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr., President Kennedey personal adviser, recalled a stay in Havana and testified: “I loved Havana and I was shocked how this lovely city had become regrettably in a large casino and brothel for men American business [...]. My fellow walked the streets, went with Cuban girls fourteen and threw coins just for the pleasure of seeing men wallowing in the sewer and collect. One wondered how the Cubans – seeing this reality – the U.S. could be considered otherwise than with hatred. “
42. About 60% of farmers living in thatched roof huts with dirt floors devoid of toilets or running water. About 90% had no electricity. About 85% of these barracks had one or two pieces for the whole family. Only 11% of farmers consumed milk, 4% 2% meat and eggs. The 43% were illiterate and 44% had never been to school. The New York Times notes that “the vast majority of them in areas rulares-peasants or peasants lived in poverty, subsistence level”.
43. According to the English economist Dudley Seers, in 1958 the situation was “intolerable.”What was intolerable was an unemployment rate three times higher than in the United States. Moreover, in the field, social conditions were very bad. About a third of the nation lived in the dirt, eating rice, beans, plantains and vegetables (almost never meat, fish, eggs or milk), living in barracks, usually without electricity or latrines, victim of parasitic diseases and did not benefit of a health service. Instruction is denied (their children went to school one year maximum). The situation of precarious, temporary barracks installed in the commons, was particularly difficult [...]. A significant proportion of the urban population was also very miserable. “
44. President John F. Kennedy also said this: “I think there is no country in the world, including the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than they were in Cuba, due to the policy of my country during the Batista regime. We refuse to help Cuba in desperate need of economic progress. In 1953, the median Cuban family had an income of $ 6 per week [...]. This abysmal level worsened as the population grew. But instead of extending a friendly hand to the desperate people of Cuba, almost all our help took the form of military assistance assistance simply strengthened the Batista dictatorship [generating] a growing feeling that America was indifferent to Cuban aspirations to a decent life. “
45. Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr., President Kennedey personal adviser, recalled a stay in Havana and testified: “I loved Havana and I was shocked how this lovely city had become regrettably in a large casino and brothel for men American business [...]. My fellow walked the streets, went with Cuban girls fourteen and threw coins just for the pleasure of seeing men wallowing in the sewer and collect. One wondered how the Cubans – seeing this reality – the U.S. could be considered otherwise than with hatred. “
Toro
Diamond Member
Cuba and Chile had roughly the same standard of living in 1960.
Today, Chile is the most prosperous nation in South America while Cubans risk their lives to cross 100 miles of shark infested waters in dingies because the Workers Paradise won't let them leave.
Today, Chile is the most prosperous nation in South America while Cubans risk their lives to cross 100 miles of shark infested waters in dingies because the Workers Paradise won't let them leave.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Being the most prosperous nation in SOuth America is kind of like being the Leper with the Most Fingers.
But let's look at Chile. Chile tried to fairly distribute the wealth, and guess what, we killed their leader for it and imposed a 20 year military dictatorship on them.
But it's a good time for the 1%ers down there, until the people get sick of their shit and kill them.
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