Quid Pro Quo

[Faun]

Once again, the *ahem* assumption that Trump's motivation is purely political.....Ever entertain the notion that Biden is running for, and will not attain, the DNC nomination is incidental?

Ukraine is a cesspool of international corruption....It also turns out that $1.8 billion in Murican foreign aid payola magically disappeared into thin air back in 2014.

But all the leftbats can do is keep bleating about ELECTION MEDDLING!

What difference does it make if Biden wins the Democrat nomination? Biden is currently campaigning for the same office as Trump and can even run as an Independent should the Democrat party not nominate him. Only brain-dead trumptards think Biden is not a politcal rival of Trump's.

 

[Faun]

Liberals don't trust Fox News but here's their best friend Chris Wallace....

Why would Mulvaney have to "walk back quid pro quo" if he didn't admit quid pro quo to begin with?

 

[BlindBoo]

Liberals don't trust Fox News but here's their best friend Chris Wallace....

As Mick clearly said it was a quid pro quo. Get over it. Doesn't matter how many times he insults the people of his country. The notes of the call identify the DNC server investigation as being just one of the favors the Don was demanding before the aid was released.

And ? This is another case of Democrats in the FBI projecting their crime on the opposition who happens to be Trump. And when you step on Trump you step on a lot of Voters who support him, so be careful.

How did they project Trumpybears' unforced errors?

He only has die hard supporter now.

 

[the other mike]

Liberals don't trust Fox News but here's their best friend Chris Wallace....

Why would Mulvaney have to "walk back quid pro quo" if he didn't admit quid pro quo to begin with?

He explains in the softball interview.

 

[sealybobo]

Remember how at the beginning of Ukrainegate Republicans lined up behind Trump and proclaimed:
"There can be no crime because there was no quid pro quo"

Sen. Pat Toomey called the conversation “inappropriate,” the Pennsylvania Republican said “it does not rise to the level of an impeachable offense.”
It “reveals no quid pro quo,” he added.

“I didn’t find it concerning,” said Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa). “There was no quid pro quo, you’d have to have that if there was going to be anything wrong.”

Freedom Caucus Chairman Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), one of Trump’s top confidants on Capitol Hill, had tweeted four separate times about the absence of a “quid pro quo" by lunchtime.

Well now we know that there was a"Quid Pro Quo" offered, and expected by the President.
The incredibly damning Ukraine texts from State Department officials, explained
Volker writes, “Heard from White House — assuming President Z convinces trump he will investigate / “get to the bottom of what happened” in 20-16, we will nail down date for visit to Washington.”

Later in a response from the Ukrainian rep:
“Once we have a date,” Yermak says, he’ll call for a press briefing in which he’ll announce “among other things Burisma and election meddling in investigations.”

Sondland asks Volker, “Do we still want Ze to give us an unequivocal draft with 2016 and Boresma?” Volker answers: “That’s the clear message so far...”

Remember Boresma is the company that Trump is trying to tie Biden to- in Trump's phone call Trump never mentions Boresma but instead asks him to investigate Biden.

The quid pro quo is very explicit here- the new Ukrainian President very much wants a White House meeting with President Trump. He is offered that meeting if he investigates Boresma- or as Trump made clear on his call- Biden.

The quid pro quo is there- even without the pretty obvious quid pro quo of the arms money:

Bill Taylor, the top US diplomat at the US embassy in Ukraine:“Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?”........“As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.”

Now the Republican line is: 'nuttin illegal about 'quid pro quo' to get a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political opponent- well if Trump is doing it.

I am sure we will see all of the Republicans who proclaimed that the President did nothing wrong because there was no 'quid pro quo' offered, will be finding other reasons why it is okay for the President to offer a quid pro quo to a foreign government to dig up dirt on his political rival.

Is quid pro quo the same as son of a ***** ?

Did the VP ever mention his son when he was discussing Obama's foreign policy objectives? Was that demand something that went outside the normal diplomatic channels, without the consultation of our allies in the region? Did Obama send his private attorney to set up the specific demands that Joe's son not be investigated in exchange for our aid?

When we're talking about a job that pays $80,000 a month to a kid who just got kicked out of the Navy Reserves for cocaine, who by the way knows nothing about the oil and gas business? Um?m? ....yes I think there are some questions to ask.

First of all, Bush should have never owned the Texas Rangers or became governor of Texas, let alone POTUS.

Second of all, trying to make this about Biden's son is sleazy and not going to work. The guy got up and defended his resume. And he should not have to defend how much he as a private citizen makes. Not from you middle class Republicans who defend out of control CEO pay. Now you care what one guy makes? How about the rest of them? Do you agree they all make too much too? Then you are a liberal dummy!

You Republicans want it both ways. You can't have it both ways. And stop trying to make Trump committing impeachable offenses about a guy named Hunter Biden. What about Don Jr.? He should have been charged and in jail too not just Michael Cohen. Only because he's the President's son. So if you care about Biden then you can't vote for Trump. But we all know you don't care about Biden, other than he's your political rival.

Wow you really like being wrong a lot don't you ? I'm not a Republican ..... never have been .....and that doesn't mean I can't be a Tump supporter though does it. ? When you learn to think for yourself maybe we'll have an actual conversation.....

Anyone who's still a Trump supporter and doesn't think they are brainwashed by the GOP is an idiot.

And if you like Trump better than the Republicans then you're also an idiot. He's horrible. But I guess no amount of bad decisions or corruption or people quitting or people being fired will make you think this administration is doing a bad job.

This guy was running for city counsel and my neighbor said "hey sealy you got to vote for this guy". I shook his hand and said, "real simple, Trump or Hillary?" He said Trump. I said, "that's all I needed to know". I didn't tell him I liked or disliked his answer, I just said "fair enough" and walked away.

If he's a Trump idiot he has no business being in politics. You guys are anarchists and you don't know when your leader is sucking badly.

And let me guess, you thought Obama did a horrible job? Dude, you're a ******* Republican. And even if you vote 3rd party you still fucked this country good. Almost as bad as not voting at all. But hey, at least you voted.

And I'm not mad at you. You have the right to vote for whoever you want. It's the America public who should be ashamed if this corrupt asshole gets re elected. I get why you voted for him in 2016 but I'll have no empathy anyone who votes for the stupid asshole again. Unless you yourself are a stupid asshole.

 

[sealybobo]

They are having a hard time with this because now the guy who admitted there was quidproquo is now saying that's not what he meant. The lying media is evil they say for using what he said against him. He says that's not what he said, even though that's exactly what he said. Amazing how they can say something on camera and the next day deny they said what they said.

How dare they quote him and make a big deal out of him admitting guilt. We are living in crazy times where Trump is proving that the Republican party will allow a criminal to run their party.

Lindsay Graham Suggests Ukraine Quid Pro Quo Might Convince Him To Back Impeachment
The Republican senator also called Trump an “equal opportunity abuser of people” and a “handful” in an interview with Axios.

Graham’s interview on Tuesday preceded acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney’s declaration Thursday that Trump’s Ukraine dealing concerning Biden was a quid pro quo.

Mick's problem is that there is nothing wrong with a quid pro quo so long as both what we offer and what we demand are official US policy. The problem is that nothing Mick has said that we demanded was official US policy: either reinvesting Hunter and trying to tie in Joe too, or Crowdstrike - the US intelligence committee and senate closed the book on that bs long ago. And Trump has Rudy going behind the Dept of State's back on this stuff.

That said, the day Leslie votes to remove Trump from office is the day he either comes out or turns straight, neither of which will ever happen.

I think Republicans are missing a great opportunity here. Imagine if Trump stepped down or was impeached and the GOP nominated a moderate Republican to run in 2020. That moderate can say "I will give you the great economy Trump gave you minus all the bullshit/baggage that comes with Trump. And no more horrible foreign policy. No more making our allies our enemies.

If Trump wasn't an asshole he would have won for sure in 2020. Now, I don't think so. I think he has done enough damage that a lot of people who didn't vote are going to show up to vote him out and a lot of people who voted for him are not going to show up.

How many former generals and republicans have to speak out against Trump before we take his hand off the red button? Trump is insane. And he is clearly a criminal. He surrounds himself with horrible yes men and even they can't say yes to what he is asking for.

I'm not sure what the republican party is anymore. The first tax cut on corporations is defensible on the theory that taxes on biz actually reduce money for expansion. The second tax cut on .1% and 1% individ rates in red states, while ending Salt taxes in states that actually pay the most federal taxes for welfare to red states, is not economically defensible.

Tariffs inevitably make goods more expensive regardless where they are made, and there's no empirical support that taxes on mfrting raise wages. So supporters of the gop on this issue are economic illiterates. Theft of IP hurts the US economy, but tariffs and IP theft are separate issues that do different things. Trump attempts to tie them together with China, but so far China is fine with reducing exports to the US, but not fine on changing on IP.

Not all Trump base voters are illiterates or racists. I'm all for a secure border and registering non-citizen US workers. Trump's not accomplishing either, but even the gop is fighting him.

I'm all for securing the border and registering non citizen US workers too. Things that will actually work.

I was thinking about this the other day. Can you go to Mexico on a vacation? Is it hard to go there? No? So then why should it be hard for Mexicans to come vacation here? The problem is they are coming here and staying. And working. So lets go after illegal employers. So far we raid illegal employers, **** with a few illegals, but do nothing to the illegal employer. If we don't scare employers into being afraid to hire illegals or suffer jail time and lose their business', this problem will never go away. Trump wants to play wack a mole with illegal workers and leave illegal employers alone. Same way we don't go bomb the shit out of the columbian coke manufacturers. We just punish the end users.

That's it. We'll never really reduce illegal workers unless we reduce illegal employers because …. workers can travel while employers can't. BUT neither party wants to do that. Trump can build a wall, but there's never going to be a shortage of illegal workers unless employers are fined …. Yuuuugely.

And that's the other way the rich waged war on the American middle class. Employers did travel. In 2007 about 750,000 jobs a month traveled out of the country.

So employers assaulted us multiple ways. One way was to send our jobs overseas. And the jobs they couldn't send overseas, they brought in illegals to do those jobs.

 

[the other mike]

Is quid pro quo the same as son of a ***** ?

Did the VP ever mention his son when he was discussing Obama's foreign policy objectives? Was that demand something that went outside the normal diplomatic channels, without the consultation of our allies in the region? Did Obama send his private attorney to set up the specific demands that Joe's son not be investigated in exchange for our aid?

When we're talking about a job that pays $80,000 a month to a kid who just got kicked out of the Navy Reserves for cocaine, who by the way knows nothing about the oil and gas business? Um?m? ....yes I think there are some questions to ask.

First of all, Bush should have never owned the Texas Rangers or became governor of Texas, let alone POTUS.

Second of all, trying to make this about Biden's son is sleazy and not going to work. The guy got up and defended his resume. And he should not have to defend how much he as a private citizen makes. Not from you middle class Republicans who defend out of control CEO pay. Now you care what one guy makes? How about the rest of them? Do you agree they all make too much too? Then you are a liberal dummy!

You Republicans want it both ways. You can't have it both ways. And stop trying to make Trump committing impeachable offenses about a guy named Hunter Biden. What about Don Jr.? He should have been charged and in jail too not just Michael Cohen. Only because he's the President's son. So if you care about Biden then you can't vote for Trump. But we all know you don't care about Biden, other than he's your political rival.

Wow you really like being wrong a lot don't you ? I'm not a Republican ..... never have been .....and that doesn't mean I can't be a Tump supporter though does it. ? When you learn to think for yourself maybe we'll have an actual conversation.....

Anyone who's still a Trump supporter and doesn't think they are brainwashed by the GOP is an idiot.

And if you like Trump better than the Republicans then you're also an idiot. He's horrible. But I guess no amount of bad decisions or corruption or people quitting or people being fired will make you think this administration is doing a bad job.

This guy was running for city counsel and my neighbor said "hey sealy you got to vote for this guy". I shook his hand and said, "real simple, Trump or Hillary?" He said Trump. I said, "that's all I needed to know". I didn't tell him I liked or disliked his answer, I just said "fair enough" and walked away.

If he's a Trump idiot he has no business being in politics. You guys are anarchists and you don't know when your leader is sucking badly.

And let me guess, you thought Obama did a horrible job? Dude, you're a ******* Republican. And even if you vote 3rd party you still fucked this country good. Almost as bad as not voting at all. But hey, at least you voted.

And I'm not mad at you. You have the right to vote for whoever you want. It's the America public who should be ashamed if this corrupt asshole gets re elected. I get why you voted for him in 2016 but I'll have no empathy anyone who votes for the stupid asshole again. Unless you yourself are a stupid asshole.

Everything you say about Trump applies to the Democrats.

 

[sealybobo]

Senator Biden appointed Senator Obama to the Foreign Relations Committee.

President Obama appointed Biden Vice President.


QUID PRO QUO! QUID PRO QUO! QUID PRO QUO! QUID PRO QUO! QUID PRO QUO! QUID PRO QUO! QUID PRO QUO! QUID PRO QUO!

Imagine if Obama asked the FBI to dig up dirt on Trump. To spy on Trump.

Oh wait! You guys did accuse Obama of doing that. Well would you have any problem with Trump doing that? I bet you wouldn't.

 

[sealybobo]

Did the VP ever mention his son when he was discussing Obama's foreign policy objectives? Was that demand something that went outside the normal diplomatic channels, without the consultation of our allies in the region? Did Obama send his private attorney to set up the specific demands that Joe's son not be investigated in exchange for our aid?

When we're talking about a job that pays $80,000 a month to a kid who just got kicked out of the Navy Reserves for cocaine, who by the way knows nothing about the oil and gas business? Um?m? ....yes I think there are some questions to ask.

First of all, Bush should have never owned the Texas Rangers or became governor of Texas, let alone POTUS.

Second of all, trying to make this about Biden's son is sleazy and not going to work. The guy got up and defended his resume. And he should not have to defend how much he as a private citizen makes. Not from you middle class Republicans who defend out of control CEO pay. Now you care what one guy makes? How about the rest of them? Do you agree they all make too much too? Then you are a liberal dummy!

You Republicans want it both ways. You can't have it both ways. And stop trying to make Trump committing impeachable offenses about a guy named Hunter Biden. What about Don Jr.? He should have been charged and in jail too not just Michael Cohen. Only because he's the President's son. So if you care about Biden then you can't vote for Trump. But we all know you don't care about Biden, other than he's your political rival.

Wow you really like being wrong a lot don't you ? I'm not a Republican ..... never have been .....and that doesn't mean I can't be a Tump supporter though does it. ? When you learn to think for yourself maybe we'll have an actual conversation.....

Anyone who's still a Trump supporter and doesn't think they are brainwashed by the GOP is an idiot.

And if you like Trump better than the Republicans then you're also an idiot. He's horrible. But I guess no amount of bad decisions or corruption or people quitting or people being fired will make you think this administration is doing a bad job.

This guy was running for city counsel and my neighbor said "hey sealy you got to vote for this guy". I shook his hand and said, "real simple, Trump or Hillary?" He said Trump. I said, "that's all I needed to know". I didn't tell him I liked or disliked his answer, I just said "fair enough" and walked away.

If he's a Trump idiot he has no business being in politics. You guys are anarchists and you don't know when your leader is sucking badly.

And let me guess, you thought Obama did a horrible job? Dude, you're a ******* Republican. And even if you vote 3rd party you still fucked this country good. Almost as bad as not voting at all. But hey, at least you voted.

And I'm not mad at you. You have the right to vote for whoever you want. It's the America public who should be ashamed if this corrupt asshole gets re elected. I get why you voted for him in 2016 but I'll have no empathy anyone who votes for the stupid asshole again. Unless you yourself are a stupid asshole.

Everything you say about Trump applies to the Democrats.

I don't see why. Clinton did a great job. Gore should have won 2000 easily based on Clinton's results.

And Obama did a great job getting us out of the Bush Great Recession. Anyone who says otherwise is just repeating the GOP bullshit lies. 70 plus straight months of jobs growth. All Trump did was supercharge an already good economy that Obama handed him with tax breaks we can't afford. And those breaks only stimulated the economy for about a year. After that they were just a gift to the rich. With tariffs and inflation, any tax break or measly raise you got has been eaten up. You are not doing any better than you were under Trump.

But the rich are doing great. This reminds me of the Bush economy. Lies all 8 years telling us the economy was great for everyone who was working and the economy was strong. You guys repeated that lie until you couldn't anymore. Then you denied it was Bush's fault. It was Clinton's, carters, freddy, fanny, the senate Democrats. It was anyone but Bush.

Obama and Hillary were boyscouts compared to Trump and all his corruption. Obama would have already been impeached if he pulled everything Trump did so far. And Trump pretends that they are picking on him. And you swallow that.

There is no talking to you nuts. Lets just hope moderates and independents aren't stupid enough to fall for it again. I don't think they are. I think the majority of voters are going to say enough is enough. And I think a lot of minorities that didn't show up in 2016 will next year.

 

[sealybobo]

They are having a hard time with this because now the guy who admitted there was quidproquo is now saying that's not what he meant. The lying media is evil they say for using what he said against him. He says that's not what he said, even though that's exactly what he said. Amazing how they can say something on camera and the next day deny they said what they said.

How dare they quote him and make a big deal out of him admitting guilt. We are living in crazy times where Trump is proving that the Republican party will allow a criminal to run their party.

Lindsay Graham Suggests Ukraine Quid Pro Quo Might Convince Him To Back Impeachment
The Republican senator also called Trump an “equal opportunity abuser of people” and a “handful” in an interview with Axios.

Graham’s interview on Tuesday preceded acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney’s declaration Thursday that Trump’s Ukraine dealing concerning Biden was a quid pro quo.

Mick's problem is that there is nothing wrong with a quid pro quo so long as both what we offer and what we demand are official US policy. The problem is that nothing Mick has said that we demanded was official US policy: either reinvesting Hunter and trying to tie in Joe too, or Crowdstrike - the US intelligence committee and senate closed the book on that bs long ago. And Trump has Rudy going behind the Dept of State's back on this stuff.

That said, the day Leslie votes to remove Trump from office is the day he either comes out or turns straight, neither of which will ever happen.

I think Republicans are missing a great opportunity here. Imagine if Trump stepped down or was impeached and the GOP nominated a moderate Republican to run in 2020. That moderate can say "I will give you the great economy Trump gave you minus all the bullshit/baggage that comes with Trump. And no more horrible foreign policy. No more making our allies our enemies.

If Trump wasn't an asshole he would have won for sure in 2020. Now, I don't think so. I think he has done enough damage that a lot of people who didn't vote are going to show up to vote him out and a lot of people who voted for him are not going to show up.

How many former generals and republicans have to speak out against Trump before we take his hand off the red button? Trump is insane. And he is clearly a criminal. He surrounds himself with horrible yes men and even they can't say yes to what he is asking for.

I'm not sure what the republican party is anymore. The first tax cut on corporations is defensible on the theory that taxes on biz actually reduce money for expansion. The second tax cut on .1% and 1% individ rates in red states, while ending Salt taxes in states that actually pay the most federal taxes for welfare to red states, is not economically defensible.

Tariffs inevitably make goods more expensive regardless where they are made, and there's no empirical support that taxes on mfrting raise wages. So supporters of the gop on this issue are economic illiterates. Theft of IP hurts the US economy, but tariffs and IP theft are separate issues that do different things. Trump attempts to tie them together with China, but so far China is fine with reducing exports to the US, but not fine on changing on IP.

Not all Trump base voters are illiterates or racists. I'm all for a secure border and registering non-citizen US workers. Trump's not accomplishing either, but even the gop is fighting him.

I'm all for securing the border and registering non citizen US workers too. Things that will actually work.

I was thinking about this the other day. Can you go to Mexico on a vacation? Is it hard to go there? No? So then why should it be hard for Mexicans to come vacation here? The problem is they are coming here and staying. And working. So lets go after illegal employers. So far we raid illegal employers, **** with a few illegals, but do nothing to the illegal employer. If we don't scare employers into being afraid to hire illegals or suffer jail time and lose their business', this problem will never go away. Trump wants to play wack a mole with illegal workers and leave illegal employers alone. Same way we don't go bomb the shit out of the columbian coke manufacturers. We just punish the end users.

I am in favor of comprehensive immigration reform that includes real steps to secure our border, crack down on employers who hire illegals, reasonable temporary worker programs for American companies to use legal immigrant labor, legislatively addresses asylum reform and takes care of the DACA people.

I want secure borders too. That does not mean built a 2000 mile long wall that wont' work but will cost a fortune.

 

[bendog]

Mick's problem is that there is nothing wrong with a quid pro quo so long as both what we offer and what we demand are official US policy. The problem is that nothing Mick has said that we demanded was official US policy: either reinvesting Hunter and trying to tie in Joe too, or Crowdstrike - the US intelligence committee and senate closed the book on that bs long ago. And Trump has Rudy going behind the Dept of State's back on this stuff.

That said, the day Leslie votes to remove Trump from office is the day he either comes out or turns straight, neither of which will ever happen.

I think Republicans are missing a great opportunity here. Imagine if Trump stepped down or was impeached and the GOP nominated a moderate Republican to run in 2020. That moderate can say "I will give you the great economy Trump gave you minus all the bullshit/baggage that comes with Trump. And no more horrible foreign policy. No more making our allies our enemies.

If Trump wasn't an asshole he would have won for sure in 2020. Now, I don't think so. I think he has done enough damage that a lot of people who didn't vote are going to show up to vote him out and a lot of people who voted for him are not going to show up.

How many former generals and republicans have to speak out against Trump before we take his hand off the red button? Trump is insane. And he is clearly a criminal. He surrounds himself with horrible yes men and even they can't say yes to what he is asking for.

I'm not sure what the republican party is anymore. The first tax cut on corporations is defensible on the theory that taxes on biz actually reduce money for expansion. The second tax cut on .1% and 1% individ rates in red states, while ending Salt taxes in states that actually pay the most federal taxes for welfare to red states, is not economically defensible.

Tariffs inevitably make goods more expensive regardless where they are made, and there's no empirical support that taxes on mfrting raise wages. So supporters of the gop on this issue are economic illiterates. Theft of IP hurts the US economy, but tariffs and IP theft are separate issues that do different things. Trump attempts to tie them together with China, but so far China is fine with reducing exports to the US, but not fine on changing on IP.

Not all Trump base voters are illiterates or racists. I'm all for a secure border and registering non-citizen US workers. Trump's not accomplishing either, but even the gop is fighting him.

I'm all for securing the border and registering non citizen US workers too. Things that will actually work.

I was thinking about this the other day. Can you go to Mexico on a vacation? Is it hard to go there? No? So then why should it be hard for Mexicans to come vacation here? The problem is they are coming here and staying. And working. So lets go after illegal employers. So far we raid illegal employers, **** with a few illegals, but do nothing to the illegal employer. If we don't scare employers into being afraid to hire illegals or suffer jail time and lose their business', this problem will never go away. Trump wants to play wack a mole with illegal workers and leave illegal employers alone. Same way we don't go bomb the shit out of the columbian coke manufacturers. We just punish the end users.

That's it. We'll never really reduce illegal workers unless we reduce illegal employers because …. workers can travel while employers can't. BUT neither party wants to do that. Trump can build a wall, but there's never going to be a shortage of illegal workers unless employers are fined …. Yuuuugely.

And that's the other way the rich waged war on the American middle class. Employers did travel. In 2007 about 750,000 jobs a month traveled out of the country.

So employers assaulted us multiple ways. One way was to send our jobs overseas. And the jobs they couldn't send overseas, they brought in illegals to do those jobs.

I'm not sure those jobs were travelling rather than simply disappearing. And Americans do have full employment now. And wages are at least equal to what they were in 2007, actually a bit higher maybe.

We have somewhere around 10 million illegal aliens in America. The exact number is probably down since Trump's election.

 

[sealybobo]

Chinese Reportedly Hacked Hillary Server. During Same Time, 12 CIA Sources Reportedly Killed by China. Coincidence?

lol
Fake News from Fake Media.

Everyone knows Trump killed Elijah Cummings. You think Hillary's kill list is big? Wait and see if Trump wins re election.

 

[sealybobo]

I think Republicans are missing a great opportunity here. Imagine if Trump stepped down or was impeached and the GOP nominated a moderate Republican to run in 2020. That moderate can say "I will give you the great economy Trump gave you minus all the bullshit/baggage that comes with Trump. And no more horrible foreign policy. No more making our allies our enemies.

If Trump wasn't an asshole he would have won for sure in 2020. Now, I don't think so. I think he has done enough damage that a lot of people who didn't vote are going to show up to vote him out and a lot of people who voted for him are not going to show up.

How many former generals and republicans have to speak out against Trump before we take his hand off the red button? Trump is insane. And he is clearly a criminal. He surrounds himself with horrible yes men and even they can't say yes to what he is asking for.

I'm not sure what the republican party is anymore. The first tax cut on corporations is defensible on the theory that taxes on biz actually reduce money for expansion. The second tax cut on .1% and 1% individ rates in red states, while ending Salt taxes in states that actually pay the most federal taxes for welfare to red states, is not economically defensible.

Tariffs inevitably make goods more expensive regardless where they are made, and there's no empirical support that taxes on mfrting raise wages. So supporters of the gop on this issue are economic illiterates. Theft of IP hurts the US economy, but tariffs and IP theft are separate issues that do different things. Trump attempts to tie them together with China, but so far China is fine with reducing exports to the US, but not fine on changing on IP.

Not all Trump base voters are illiterates or racists. I'm all for a secure border and registering non-citizen US workers. Trump's not accomplishing either, but even the gop is fighting him.

I'm all for securing the border and registering non citizen US workers too. Things that will actually work.

I was thinking about this the other day. Can you go to Mexico on a vacation? Is it hard to go there? No? So then why should it be hard for Mexicans to come vacation here? The problem is they are coming here and staying. And working. So lets go after illegal employers. So far we raid illegal employers, **** with a few illegals, but do nothing to the illegal employer. If we don't scare employers into being afraid to hire illegals or suffer jail time and lose their business', this problem will never go away. Trump wants to play wack a mole with illegal workers and leave illegal employers alone. Same way we don't go bomb the shit out of the columbian coke manufacturers. We just punish the end users.

That's it. We'll never really reduce illegal workers unless we reduce illegal employers because …. workers can travel while employers can't. BUT neither party wants to do that. Trump can build a wall, but there's never going to be a shortage of illegal workers unless employers are fined …. Yuuuugely.

And that's the other way the rich waged war on the American middle class. Employers did travel. In 2007 about 750,000 jobs a month traveled out of the country.

So employers assaulted us multiple ways. One way was to send our jobs overseas. And the jobs they couldn't send overseas, they brought in illegals to do those jobs.

I'm not sure those jobs were travelling rather than simply disappearing. And Americans do have full employment now. And wages are at least equal to what they were in 2007, actually a bit higher maybe.

We have somewhere around 10 million illegal aliens in America. The exact number is probably down since Trump's election.

Oh you believe the unemployment numbers now? See, this is how us liberals are better than you cons. We aren't playing that bullshit game you guys played when Obama was president. You didn't believe the numbers until Trump got in. Then you started believing them. So you should thank Obama for handing Trump a really ******* good economy that Trump could **** with.

Wages are higher than in 2007? They weren't high enough in 2007. Don't act like the Bush years were good years. They weren't.

 

[bendog]

I'm not sure what the republican party is anymore. The first tax cut on corporations is defensible on the theory that taxes on biz actually reduce money for expansion. The second tax cut on .1% and 1% individ rates in red states, while ending Salt taxes in states that actually pay the most federal taxes for welfare to red states, is not economically defensible.

Tariffs inevitably make goods more expensive regardless where they are made, and there's no empirical support that taxes on mfrting raise wages. So supporters of the gop on this issue are economic illiterates. Theft of IP hurts the US economy, but tariffs and IP theft are separate issues that do different things. Trump attempts to tie them together with China, but so far China is fine with reducing exports to the US, but not fine on changing on IP.

Not all Trump base voters are illiterates or racists. I'm all for a secure border and registering non-citizen US workers. Trump's not accomplishing either, but even the gop is fighting him.

I'm all for securing the border and registering non citizen US workers too. Things that will actually work.

I was thinking about this the other day. Can you go to Mexico on a vacation? Is it hard to go there? No? So then why should it be hard for Mexicans to come vacation here? The problem is they are coming here and staying. And working. So lets go after illegal employers. So far we raid illegal employers, **** with a few illegals, but do nothing to the illegal employer. If we don't scare employers into being afraid to hire illegals or suffer jail time and lose their business', this problem will never go away. Trump wants to play wack a mole with illegal workers and leave illegal employers alone. Same way we don't go bomb the shit out of the columbian coke manufacturers. We just punish the end users.

That's it. We'll never really reduce illegal workers unless we reduce illegal employers because …. workers can travel while employers can't. BUT neither party wants to do that. Trump can build a wall, but there's never going to be a shortage of illegal workers unless employers are fined …. Yuuuugely.

And that's the other way the rich waged war on the American middle class. Employers did travel. In 2007 about 750,000 jobs a month traveled out of the country.

So employers assaulted us multiple ways. One way was to send our jobs overseas. And the jobs they couldn't send overseas, they brought in illegals to do those jobs.

I'm not sure those jobs were travelling rather than simply disappearing. And Americans do have full employment now. And wages are at least equal to what they were in 2007, actually a bit higher maybe.

We have somewhere around 10 million illegal aliens in America. The exact number is probably down since Trump's election.

Oh you believe the unemployment numbers now? See, this is how us liberals are better than you cons. We aren't playing that bullshit game you guys played when Obama was president. You didn't believe the numbers until Trump got in. Then you started believing them. So you should thank Obama for handing Trump a really ******* good economy that Trump could **** with.

Wages are higher than in 2007? They weren't high enough in 2007. Don't act like the Bush years were good years. They weren't.

OK. Nevermind then. LOL

 

[Syriusly]

Liberals don't trust Fox News but here's their best friend Chris Wallace....

Trump is still pissed off that Fox News has a few actual journalists who
actually will confront the administration's lies.

As Trump bemoaned not too long ago:
"Fox isn't working for us anymore"

Because remember- anything any reporter says that is negative about Trump is automatically "FAKE NEWS!"

 

[Syriusly]

We all saw the quid pro quo in the infamous "phone call"

We saw it illustrated in the texts between Taylor and Sondolm

Mick Mulvaney ADMITTED it.

And guess what? There was no need for there to BE a quid pro quo.

The mere ASK of a foreign entity for election help was illegal on its face

Yeah we're getting to the bottom of that starting with Fusion GPS.

And by 'we' you mean you and Giuliani?
lol

 

[the other mike]

We all saw the quid pro quo in the infamous "phone call"

We saw it illustrated in the texts between Taylor and Sondolm

Mick Mulvaney ADMITTED it.

And guess what? There was no need for there to BE a quid pro quo.

The mere ASK of a foreign entity for election help was illegal on its face

Yeah we're getting to the bottom of that starting with Fusion GPS.

And by 'we' you mean you and Giuliani?
lol

 

[bendog]

We all saw the quid pro quo in the infamous "phone call"

We saw it illustrated in the texts between Taylor and Sondolm

Mick Mulvaney ADMITTED it.

And guess what? There was no need for there to BE a quid pro quo.

The mere ASK of a foreign entity for election help was illegal on its face

Yeah we're getting to the bottom of that starting with Fusion GPS.

And by 'we' you mean you and Giuliani?
lol

There you go. When Barr says there's a bias by career employee at Justice and State against Trump moves …. he's probably right. But then Trump uses Ghouliani for a shadow DoS to do what career Stater's consider illegal, and we're supposed to say coup when they come forward. LOL I just don't see why Trump does this shit to himself.

 

[basquebromance]

you either think Trump is a menace and must be removed or you like Trump. those are the only 2 options available.

pick a side, we're at war. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

 

[Lesh]

Does rule of law matter?

Do norms matter?

Then Trump has to go. Now

Before he does more damage