Questions for those who don't believe in God

[Nightwish]

if you have no ultimate purpose why do you choose to continue this farce?

That's one you'd have to ask an atheist. I believe there is a purpose, but I believe that it is too big, too far-reaching, too vast to ever be known. So I just tend to try not to let myself be bothered by the question, and just live my life the way that seems best.

 

[manu1959]

That's one you'd have to ask an atheist. I believe there is a purpose, but I believe that it is too big, too far-reaching, too vast to ever be known. So I just tend to try not to let myself be bothered by the question, and just live my life the way that seems best.

odd....with your statement "So I just tend to try not to let myself be bothered by the question, and just live my life the way that seems best." it certainly seems to me that you have defined your ultimate purpose quite well.

as was once said ...it is not what you do but who you are

 

[Mariner]

you know that Camus, whom you quote, was an atheist? His life serves as a perfect example of an exemplary moral life (deep writings, active service in the Resistance) led without the need of the stick of burning in hell for eternity if you don't behave right or the carrot of 72 virgins if you do.

Mariner.

 

[manu1959]

you know that Camus, whom you quote, was an atheist? His life serves as a perfect example of an exemplary moral life (deep writings, active service in the Resistance) led without the need of the stick of burning in hell for eternity if you don't behave right or the carrot of 72 virgins if you do.

Mariner.

i like the irony of his quote......72 virgins.....recent translations say it is is 72 white grapes....and if not they must be out of virgins by now

 

[listopencil]

you know that Camus, whom you quote, was an atheist? His life serves as a perfect example of an exemplary moral life (deep writings, active service in the Resistance) led without the need of the stick of burning in hell for eternity if you don't behave right or the carrot of 72 virgins if you do.

Mariner.

Yeah, but my Grandma told me the same thing. She's a die-hard Independant Southern Baptist and she never read anything by Camus. Go figure.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

No, not really. I'm an agnostic. That means that I don't believe we can really know either way, that the question (the existence of a supreme being) is faith-based and logic doesn't apply.

and your belief that we cant know is based on faith also

 

[listopencil]

and your belief that we cant know is based on faith also

No, not really. It's based on observation. If you look at all the attributes that a Christian God would possess and add in what His motives would be, nothing is left but faith to lead you to believe in him. That's the whole idea.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Evolution accounts perfectly well for feelings of self-preservation, as well as for feelings of altruism.

Think about it: a creature with no desire to preserve itself wouldn't live very long, and would be unlikely to pass its genes on to children. End of passive creature.

Research into the mathematical/evolutionary origins of altruism is at the cutting edge of evolution research, with more examples being found in nature every day.

Mariner.

yea, they can make up just about anything,,,and you guys think the Bible is a bunch of fairy tales. !

I wonder how the birds that flly south to San Juan Capistrano ever figured they needed to leave the north before winter sets in and they die?
I wonder how they managed to remember exactly where to fly back to every year?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

you know that Camus, whom you quote, was an atheist? His life serves as a perfect example of an exemplary moral life (deep writings, active service in the Resistance) led without the need of the stick of burning in hell for eternity if you don't behave right or the carrot of 72 virgins if you do.

Mariner.

If burning in hell is a natural consequence of ones refusal to bow to God, then it isnt a punishment as you proclaim. Nor is heaven a reward, just a place some of us "not so arrogant and foolish" choose to wind up spending our eternity at.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

No, not really. It's based on observation. If you look at all the attributes that a Christian God would possess and add in what His motives would be, nothing is left but faith to lead you to believe in him. That's the whole idea.

Thats what you "believe"

 

[listopencil]

yea, they can make up just about anything,,,and you guys think the Bible is a bunch of fairy tales. !

Not fairy tales. Myths and legends. Parables and cautionary tales. Stories passed down through generations with kernels of truth, but how much? I don't know.

I wonder how the birds that flly south to San Juan Capistrano ever figured they needed to leave the north before winter sets in and they die?
I wonder how they managed to remember exactly where to fly back to every year?

Could be a lot of causes. Here's one suggestion as to how pigeons find their way around:

"Homing pigeons (Columba livia) can find their way home with ease. Scientists have debated how pigeons accomplish this feat. Some researchers have suggested that pigeons smell their way back home. New research shows that pigeons can detect magnetic fields that may aid their travels."

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/pmagnet.html


The process which allows then to locate a particular location sounds more complicated. Probably similar to salmon:

"Pacific salmon species, including the sockeye, spend their lives in both freshwater and saltwater. Students will learn about this phenomenon, including the salmon migration route and the fact that salmon are able to return to the streams where they were born after spending years swimming in the ocean."

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/xpeditions/lessons/09/gk2/migrationsalmon.html

 

[listopencil]

Thats what you "believe"

Sure, that's what I believe. I'm not saying that I can prove that there isn't a God or that the Bible is a bunch of crap. I don't think you can prove anything about religion. It's more of an interesting mental exercise to me.

 

[-Cp]

Gee - what a shock.... anothier hi-jacked thread...

I think out of all the posts, only 1 or 2 people answered the original questions directly....

 

[Mariner]

If you're going to put others' "beliefs" into quotes, then you'd better do the same with your own. Unless of course you think you're better than other people.

What if you happened to born a Muslim? I'd guess you'd have turned out a traditionalist Muslim who "knew" that Allah was the only God.

If you're really curious about how birds navigate, start reading the research--it's fascinating. Some use the earth's magnetic field, othes use the stars, and others use the position of the sun. Evolution can indeed account for the development of such extraordinary abilities, just as it can account for our extraordinary brains.

Mariner.

 

[Mariner]

why we are here was that it's all absurd, beyond our reckoning. But he still found a way to develop a powerful humanist philosophy, and he lived it--he risked his life volunteering in the Resistance in WW2. I find Camus' major books to contain a philosophy as rich and satisfying as that of any of the major religions, including Hinduism (my religion) and Christianity.

Mariner.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

No, not really. It's based on observation. If you look at all the attributes that a Christian God would possess and add in what His motives would be, nothing is left but faith to lead you to believe in him. That's the whole idea.

Its a nice idea, possibly, but one you cant prove, and hence, is believed on faith also. By the way, I dont "believe" God exists, nor do I have faith God exists. I know He exists, my faith is that he is a good God and that He will never lie to me nor lead me astray.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

If you're going to put others' "beliefs" into quotes, then you'd better do the same with your own. Unless of course you think you're better than other people.

What if you happened to born a Muslim? I'd guess you'd have turned out a traditionalist Muslim who "knew" that Allah was the only God.

If you're really curious about how birds navigate, start reading the research--it's fascinating. Some use the earth's magnetic field, othes use the stars, and others use the position of the sun. Evolution can indeed account for the development of such extraordinary abilities, just as it can account for our extraordinary brains.

Mariner.

Uh, Im not sure whose faith I put in quotes, but if I do or did, I dont do it to insult, but to highlight.

As for the navigation, HOW they do it is irrelevant. How they KNOW WHERE to return, and why, and when is the questions at hand. Just because you say evolution can indeed account for... doesnt make it so.

 

[listopencil]

Its a nice idea, possibly, but one you cant prove, and hence, is believed on faith also.

That's simply not true. It's all in the Bible. I think you and I might have different ideas about what "faith" is, because it's laid out right in front of you from my standpoint.

By the way, I dont "believe" God exists, nor do I have faith God exists. I know He exists, my faith is that he is a good God and that He will never lie to me nor lead me astray.

OK, go ahead and prove your knowledge. Unless you are using a different definition of "know" than I am. There are two conflicting definitions of "know" that apply in this case.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Why are we here? Seriously.. why? If you say because of Evolution - fine, but why? Why'd it happen?

If humans are an accident that happened in the Universe then where does your sense of self-preservation come from? Why do you care if the human race continues on after you're dead?

I mean, we're all just here by chance, right?

I don't know why. Not knowing is fine with me. I don't need a God to give me purpose. I enjoy living my life and I enjoy having a few friends along for the ride. That's all.

Why do innocent people get slaughtered by evil men? Can you explain that with your God? Why do hurricanes come and make thousands of people homeless? What is the purpose of that? Your explanation is as good as mine.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I don't know. I'm neither a believer nor a disbeliever, I'm an Agnostic. The difference between religionists, agnostics and atheists is that religionists pretend (indeed, convince themselves) that they do know the answer, the atheists pretend there's not an answer to be known, and the agnostics believe that it is too big to be known.

But for those who absolutely must know the answer, it is 42.

I agree. An atheistic viewpoint is just as illogical as a theistic viewpoint. You can't disprove the existance of God anymore than you can prove it.


Though, technically, I am not agnostic.

Over a decade ago my close friends and I decided to make up our own religion, because it would be as good as anyone elses's since all religions are made up anyway.

Then it became more serious, as we noticed we got fulfillment from it, and objectively, many of our prayers seem to be answered. Gradually, our religion became very real.


I am no longer an agnostic - despite the fact that it is the most logically viewpoint. I am a follower of Keeb. I wouldn't say "devout" follower because Keeb isn't into fanaticism. In fact - check this out, if you don't believe in Him, He won't send you to Hell for it! All people can be with Keeb in the afterlife, Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists, agnostics. Any Hell that you experience when you die is one of your own making - if you spend your life hurting others, then in the afterlife you will feel their pain. If you spend your life making others happy - in the afterlife you will feel their joy. And all is known in the afterlife, as well. If you cheat on your wife and never tell her, she will find out in the afterlife and you will be the one that takes the pain of it - not her. On the other hand - if you do an anonymous good deed to help a stranger, for instance, that person will find out it was you that helped them in the afterlife and both of you will experience the joy from that deed. All people are Keeb's children regardless of which particular God they follow - they choose their own path.


Worshipping Keeb is mostly about this life, not the next. All religious beliefs are elibible for paradise with Keeb - and all religious believers can attain happiness in this life through their religion, but Keeb is the best, simplest, way to attain fulfillment in this life. YOu have nothing to lose by not following Him - but you do have something to gain if you do, in other words.

How can I, a scientist in training, a former agnostic, accept this view?


On faith alone.




Our church only has 3 real members. My brother is sort of into it but has yet to fully accept Keeb into his heart, as his still occasionally makes fun of Him for being a "fake" God. (Unlike the other Gods, Keeb will not send him to hell for this). And his girlfriend claims to be a follower on her facebook account but she does not really understand us yet.


We're always open to knew membership. But if we remain a church of 3 - that's just as fine with us. Afterall, in the Church of Keeb, 3 is the holiest number.