Question of hell

[ErikViking]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

 

[Amanda]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

I love questions like this. They seem so poignant when you're stoned.

But ultimately you'd have to think of God like the IRS to imagine shit like this even matters.

 

[JW Frogen]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

Yes, yes they will.

But that is really the place to be, music from the greats and sex like sex has never sexed before! (Imagine Madonna chained to Sean Penn's penis for all eternity).

Heavan on the other hand is a dinner lady asking you if you want broccoli with that virture?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

Hell is earth while Satan rules. After the second coming there will be no hell. Everyone found to have committed themselves to Satan will be Judged and put to permanent death.

Unless the person in your example CHOSE to serve Satan then there is a way out. They will be given a second chance to be saved.

 

[Amanda]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

Hell is earth while Satan rules. After the second coming there will be no hell. Everyone found to have committed themselves to Satan will be Judged and put to permanent death.

Unless the person in your example CHOSE to serve Satan then there is a way out. They will be given a second chance to be saved.

I hope you're right RGS....

 

[KittenKoder]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

Hmm ... so you think there are only two religions?

 

[AllieBaba]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

Yes.

Regardless of the way you want it to be, or what you perceive as just..God is righteous, and will judge.
My advice is to read and adhere to the bible, if you're worried about it. If you aren't, don't taunt those who believe. Why should you?

 

[jillian]

Hmm ... so you think there are only two religions?

I don't think any other religion believes in a concept of hell....

 

[Amanda]

Hmm ... so you think there are only two religions?

I don't think any other religion believes in a concept of hell....

You're asking ErikViking, right?

 

[jillian]

Hmm ... so you think there are only two religions?

I don't think any other religion believes in a concept of hell....

You're asking ErikViking, right?

did i use a question mark in that post? i responded to KK's question.

 

[ErikViking]

Hell is earth while Satan rules. After the second coming there will be no hell. Everyone found to have committed themselves to Satan will be Judged and put to permanent death.

Unless the person in your example CHOSE to serve Satan then there is a way out. They will be given a second chance to be saved.

So basically, you don't believe God would punish people for what they believe, rather give them a fair choise in good time? A very forgiving message.

Hmm ... so you think there are only two religions?

In the same way you think there are only nine different words.

Yes.

Regardless of the way you want it to be, or what you perceive as just..God is righteous, and will judge.
My advice is to read and adhere to the bible, if you're worried about it. If you aren't, don't taunt those who believe. Why should you?

So your view differ from that of RetiredGySgt? If you fail to believe in God you will end up in hell? Not a very forgiving message. Also it seem very random. You don't get to choose where you are born and what you will be taught in life.

 

[Amanda]

I don't think any other religion believes in a concept of hell....

You're asking ErikViking, right?

did i use a question mark in that post? i responded to KK's question.

I love your attempts to be clever.

Do other religions believe in the concept of hell? Uh, yeah Jillan, they do. Whenever you're ready to get educated enlightenment is waiting for you.

You can begin with the not-so-reliable wikipedia: Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and work your way out from there.

I can't wait to see your links that show that only Christianity and Islam have a concept of hell....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Hmm ... so you think there are only two religions?

I don't think any other religion believes in a concept of hell....

Jews believe in Hell, Muslims believe in Hell, Christians believe in hell. Not necessarily the same place for all 3 but they all share the same books of their holy text.

Now Jillian before you claim Jews do not believe in hell, explain how it does not apply when the old testament references hell.

 

[jillian]

Hmm ... so you think there are only two religions?

I don't think any other religion believes in a concept of hell....

Jews believe in Hell, Muslims believe in Hell, Christians believe in hell. Not necessarily the same place for all 3 but they all share the same books of their holy text.

Now Jillian before you claim Jews do not believe in hell, explain how it does not apply when the old testament references hell.

There were no old testament references to hell. The references were to sheol which is more of a purgatory. There are also references to a soul staying for only 12 months in sheol. That's the problem with translations. They aren't exact. But there isn't any concept of hell as a burning pit in judaism.

 

[John Lemmon]

Personally, I think that hell sounds like a much cooler place to be then in heaven with all the do-godders. Just think, Hitler, Stalin, Jeffrey Dammer, son of sam, Jimi Hendrix... what a party that would be!!!!

 

[N4mddissent]

I don't think any other religion believes in a concept of hell....

Jews believe in Hell, Muslims believe in Hell, Christians believe in hell. Not necessarily the same place for all 3 but they all share the same books of their holy text.

Now Jillian before you claim Jews do not believe in hell, explain how it does not apply when the old testament references hell.

There were no old testament references to hell. The references were to sheol which is more of a purgatory. There are also references to a soul staying for only 12 months in sheol. That's the problem with translations. They aren't exact. But there isn't any concept of hell as a burning pit in judaism.

Not to mention that in Ecclesiastes it states that nobody knows what happens after death and we may be no different than animals. I don't think the orginal Hebrew tribes can be generalized into a solid block of consistent belief. But good job getting the sheol reference. Furthermore, often the word "hell" depending upon translations was "hades", "sheol", or "gehenna". In only one place was the word "Tartarus" used originally which refers to a place where demons are held. Sheol and Hades are both general "lands of the dead" where everyone goes after death and are synonymous with "grave". Gehenna was a burning trash dump. The modern christian concept of hell as fiery punishment is a bastardization and misunderstanding of the bible by those with apparently sadistic tendencies and a strong penchant for schadenfreude.

 

[jillian]

Not to mention that in Ecclesiastes it states that nobody knows what happens after death and we may be no different than animals. I don't think the orginal Hebrew tribes can be generalized into a solid block of consistent belief. But good job getting the sheol reference. Furthermore, often the word "hell" depending upon translations was "hades", "sheol", or "gehenna". In only one place was the word "Tartarus" used originally which refers to a place where demons are held. Sheol and Hades are both general "lands of the dead" where everyone goes after death and are synonymous with "grave". Gehenna was a burning trash dump. The modern christian concept of hell as fiery punishment is a bastardization and misunderstanding of the bible by those with apparently sadistic tendencies and a strong penchant for schadenfreude.

I agree with everything you said. Mostly, I don't understand the concept of a G-d who would punish a good person with fire and brimstone simply for being a non-believer. That type of concept is alien to me and i've always found it jarring when I come across it.

*Edit* As you pointed out, Judaism's concepts of what happens after death are sometimes rather vague. On one hand, we believe satan was G-d's most beautiful angel and fights with G-d for men's souls (a la Job), and my grandmother used to mention dibbuks (demons) though I never was sure she actually believed in such a thing and I never learned about dibbuks during my religious education (though I did, independently, read things about golums... which are kind of zombi-ish life forms with no soul)... however, I think those are more lore or scary stories to keep children in line.

One of the reasons, though, that I think Judaism sees death more as purgatory or a waiting room is that when the messiah comes, the dead are supposed to have life on earth again...

 

[N4mddissent]

Not to mention that in Ecclesiastes it states that nobody knows what happens after death and we may be no different than animals. I don't think the orginal Hebrew tribes can be generalized into a solid block of consistent belief. But good job getting the sheol reference. Furthermore, often the word "hell" depending upon translations was "hades", "sheol", or "gehenna". In only one place was the word "Tartarus" used originally which refers to a place where demons are held. Sheol and Hades are both general "lands of the dead" where everyone goes after death and are synonymous with "grave". Gehenna was a burning trash dump. The modern christian concept of hell as fiery punishment is a bastardization and misunderstanding of the bible by those with apparently sadistic tendencies and a strong penchant for schadenfreude.

I agree with everything you said. Mostly, I don't understand the concept of a G-d who would punish a good person with fire and brimstone simply for being a non-believer. That type of concept is alien to me and i've always found it jarring when I come across it.

*Edit* As you pointed out, Judaism's concepts of what happens after death are sometimes rather vague. On one hand, we believe satan was G-d's most beautiful angel and fights with G-d for men's souls (a la Job), and my grandmother used to mention dibbuks (demons) though I never was sure she actually believed in such a thing and I never learned about dibbuks during my religious education (though I did, independently, read things about golums... which are kind of zombi-ish life forms with no soul)... however, I think those are more lore or scary stories to keep children in line.

One of the reasons, though, that I think Judaism sees death more as purgatory or a waiting room is that when the messiah comes, the dead are supposed to have life on earth again...

But then, I talked to a Jewish scholar once who had a completely different view of Satan. It means adversary, and he used Job as an example demonstrating that satan was a bit like a prosecutor working for god. Job is a fascinating book. You see in it, clear indications that there were some in the faith rejecting the quid pro quo covenant relationship demonstrated under Moses. Those views were that god punishes the wicked and rewards the good. God basically says in Job that he's god and he'll punish and reward whoever he wants. Ecclesiastes also states that the wicked are rewarded and good punished sometimes. Going through the destruction of the temple and being conquered by Babylon and later Rome, it's easy to see how the stage was set for a new interpretation- one in which good is rewarded and evil is punished in some unseeable afterlife.

 

[jillian]

But then, I talked to a Jewish scholar once who had a completely different view of Satan. It means adversary, and he used Job as an example demonstrating that satan was a bit like a prosecutor working for god. Job is a fascinating book. You see in it, clear indications that there were some in the faith rejecting the quid pro quo covenant relationship demonstrated under Moses. Those views were that god punishes the wicked and rewards the good. God basically says in Job that he's god and he'll punish and reward whoever he wants. Ecclesiastes also states that the wicked are rewarded and good punished sometimes. Going through the destruction of the temple and being conquered by Babylon and later Rome, it's easy to see how the stage was set for a new interpretation- one in which good is rewarded and evil is punished in some unseeable afterlife.

That's the beauty of Judaism... they say if you ask three rabbis a question, you get six different answers.... hence talmudic study eventually giving rise to the socratic method of study by questioning....

I'm afraid I'm far from a scholar, but I always find these subjects intersting. I've never heard that view of Ecclesiastes. Nor have I ever heard Satan described in the manner you told. That doesn't mean there aren't some who believe that. Obviously things like that vary greatly. It does make sense though that there would be some means of addressing the "bad things happen to good people thing". But I hate to think that G-d is so actively random in his acts.

Frankly, I don't think he's much of a micromanager anymore.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Not to mention that in Ecclesiastes it states that nobody knows what happens after death and we may be no different than animals. I don't think the orginal Hebrew tribes can be generalized into a solid block of consistent belief. But good job getting the sheol reference. Furthermore, often the word "hell" depending upon translations was "hades", "sheol", or "gehenna". In only one place was the word "Tartarus" used originally which refers to a place where demons are held. Sheol and Hades are both general "lands of the dead" where everyone goes after death and are synonymous with "grave". Gehenna was a burning trash dump. The modern christian concept of hell as fiery punishment is a bastardization and misunderstanding of the bible by those with apparently sadistic tendencies and a strong penchant for schadenfreude.

I agree with everything you said. Mostly, I don't understand the concept of a G-d who would punish a good person with fire and brimstone simply for being a non-believer. That type of concept is alien to me and i've always found it jarring when I come across it.

*Edit* As you pointed out, Judaism's concepts of what happens after death are sometimes rather vague. On one hand, we believe satan was G-d's most beautiful angel and fights with G-d for men's souls (a la Job), and my grandmother used to mention dibbuks (demons) though I never was sure she actually believed in such a thing and I never learned about dibbuks during my religious education (though I did, independently, read things about golums... which are kind of zombi-ish life forms with no soul)... however, I think those are more lore or scary stories to keep children in line.

One of the reasons, though, that I think Judaism sees death more as purgatory or a waiting room is that when the messiah comes, the dead are supposed to have life on earth again...

Once again there is no fire and brimstone hell, never was and never will be. Hell is nothing more then the place Satan Rules, and that is Earth until Jesus returns and destroys him. God gave Earth to Satan to prove a point.

I love how you all make these arguments in threads like this, then turn around and using the EXACT same scripture to claim in another thread that it proves there is a fiery hell in the Bible.

Lets be specific. When people die they are dead. They do not go to heaven, no one save Jesus has ever ascended from earth to heaven. You simply stay dead until Judgement Day when you are called forth from the Grave and Judged. Those found to be Satan worshipers and followers are condemned to eternal death. The rest are either granted admittance to Heaven ( 144,000) a restored Earth permanently or if found wanting but not a follower or worshiper of Satan a temporary stay on earth to be given a chance to chose to worship God and learn the way.

I believe God is a forgiving God and so those that chose to not worship him in life but did not worship or follow Satan will be amongst those given a second chance. God was vengeful in the Old Testament but not so in the New. So that is why I believe as I do.