Question For Lefties, What Is Abortion?

[BULLDOG]

Interesting.

Do you take that same approach to any of the other forms of child abuse and or molestations?

Is the killing of a fertilized egg murder?

 

[alang1216]

Unfortunately, (for you?) the 14th only uses "born" as a qualification for 'Citizenship' and not for personhood.

The 14th does not limit the 'equal protection of our laws' to 'Citizens.'

It clearly says, "All persons (citizens or not) are entitled to the 'equal protection' of our laws.
"Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


The Supreme Court of the United States even acknowledged this point, as far back as when the oral arguments for Roe vs Wade were taking place.

SCOTUS can certainly reinterpret the Constitution, they've done that many times.

 

[midcan5]

Thread poster,

None of your business. That is a private, personal decision based on many factors.

And the hypocrisy is even deeper as you sure as hell don't really care.

 

[Chuz Life]

SCOTUS can certainly reinterpret the Constitution, they've done that many times.

Two things I am not getting a clear sense of from your responses.

This is kind of the same question asked two different ways.

1. Do you agree or disagree that an abortion kills a child?

2. Do you agree or disagree that a human fetus has biological "parents?"

 

[Chuz Life]

Thread poster,

None of your business. That is a private, personal decision based on many factors.

And the hypocrisy is even deeper as you sure as hell don't really care.

Thanks!

Based on this comment of yours, I can add you to my own ignore list right away and save a lot of otherwise wasted time.

 

[ChristisKing]

Thread poster,

None of your business. That is a private, personal decision based on many factors.

And the hypocrisy is even deeper as you sure as hell don't really care.

Translation: You have no idea. Or you just don't want to say.

 

[alang1216]

Two things I am not getting a clear sense of from your responses.

This is kind of the same question asked two different ways.

1. Do you agree or disagree that an abortion kills a child?

2. Do you agree or disagree that a human fetus has biological "parents?"

1. Disagree
2. Agree

 

[Chuz Life]

1. Disagree
2. Agree

So, who are the biological parents of the fetus? And please explain how that physical relationship is only one way.

How are they the biological parents of the 'fetus', but the 'fetus' they are the biological parents of is not their child?

Are you simply playing a game with the semantics?

 

[alang1216]

So, who are the biological parents of the fetus? And please explain how that physical relationship is only one way.

How are they the biological parents of the 'fetus', but the 'fetus' they are the biological parents of is not their child?

Are you simply playing a game with the semantics?

Semantics can be important. Here is how I view it. The DNA of the fertilized egg is like the blueprint of a house. It is not a house, that requires the construction of structures addition of plumbing, etc., before it can be lived in. You can't live in a blueprint and the blueprint can do nothing on its own. Destroying a blueprint is unfortunate since some effort went into creating it but the loss of a house can be catastrophic.

 

[Chuz Life]

Semantics can be important. Here is how I view it. The DNA of the fertilized egg is like the blueprint of a house. It is not a house, that requires the construction of structures addition of plumbing, etc., before it can be lived in. You can't live in a blueprint and the blueprint can do nothing on its own. Destroying a blueprint is unfortunate since some effort went into creating it but the loss of a house can be catastrophic.

Human beings/ people start out as much smaller and under-developed organisms and in some ways continue to develop well into adulthood.

Do Houses?

Placental mammals "carry their young" in the womb.

Do homes?

Where is the comparison?

There is none.

To use your analogy, the closest application would be that an un-united sperm and egg carry the 'blueprint' for the organism they might merge to create. The organism that will be, soon after that union (conception) takes place.

 

[alang1216]

Human beings/ people start out as much smaller and under-developed organisms and in some ways continue to develop well into adulthood.

Do Houses?

Placental mammals "carry their young" in the womb.

Do homes?

Where is the comparison?

There is none.

To use your analogy, the closest application would be that an un-united sperm and egg carry the 'blueprint' for the organism they might merge to create. The organism that will be, soon after that union (conception) takes place.

You can bring in as many strawmen as you want, it doesn't change the way I view it. When I think 'human' I think brain and senses, not strands of DNA.

 

[Chuz Life]

You can bring in as many strawmen as you want, it doesn't change the way I view it. When I think 'human' I think brain and senses, not strands of DNA.

Strawmen?

LOL!

Do you have an example of (illustration of) the human life cycle that actually supports your belief?

Or, are those illustrations all wrong?

Is this one wrong?

 

[alang1216]

Strawmen?

LOL!

Do you have an example of (illustration of) the human life cycle that actually supports your belief?

Or, are those illustrations all wrong?

Is this one wrong?
View attachment 1180475

So it is OK to kill an egg and OK to kill a sperm but should they join up they are suddenly, magically persons with a right to life?

 

[Chuz Life]

So it is OK to kill an egg and OK to kill a sperm but should they join up they are suddenly, magically persons with a right to life?

It's not magic, and while I have no idea why you are injecting the "ok to kill" angle, the beginning of personhood matters; I hope we can agree on that.

You've probably seen me ask this question before, but your 'magic' question leads me to ask it again.

"Were YOU conceived?"

(I know that I was)

Were YOU the same human being/ organism that you are now, prior to YOUR conception? (Are un-united sperm and eggs also organisms?)

The answer is NO; To both of those.

Un-united sperm and eggs are haploid cells.

They are not "organisms."

You mentioned the significance of semantics in an earlier post. What about the most basic definition for what a "natural person" is?

natural person

www.law.cornell.edu

Note that the definition places no additional requirements for personhood. No requirements of higher development like brain function, ability to feel pain, breathe on their own, or even have the ability to survive without help (viability).

How long should I expect you to continue to ridicule and divert away from these facts? Or will you ever just admit I have supported my claims, even if you don't personally agree with my conclusions?

Part of me really wants to know.