Zone1 Question for Christians.

[sparky]

How much do you charge for the baby ones?

depends on the time of year, spring $100, fall $25

Anyhow, are u a full time farmer?

some days, i'm a local electrician now for 40 yrs, built a farm which is my retirement delusion

guess i watched too many green acres episodes as a kid?



~S~

 

[Meriweather]

All I'm saying is it's convenient to take one thing He said as literal that must forever be considered such for eternity (to the point of excommunicating people for believing differently)

As you are fully aware...no one excommunicated you or any Protestant. They excommunicated (separated) themselves. That is how excommunication generally happens. You (and any Protestant) are welcome back at any time. No one is keeping you away. All are welcome. That is the meaning of Catholic.

 

[BULLDOG]

I don't understand exactly why a non Christian (or that's what you once were anyhow) has an interest in this kind of thing?

In any case, in my view, there are many false prophets: all those who promote the health-wealth-prosperity doctrine, and anyone who attacks the Catholic Church, the One Church Christ founded

(God is not the author of confusion, so we know he wouldn't establish 60,000 "churches" all teaching different things. )

Just trying to point out differences between historical Christianity, and what the politically based who claim to be Christian in an effort to justify their non-Christian behavior. False prophets were once considered to be worthy of death. Now they garner votes.

 

[ding]

Just trying to point out differences between historical Christianity, and what the politically based who claim to be Christian in an effort to justify their non-Christian behavior. False prophets were once considered to be worthy of death. Now they garner votes.

So Christians should have only voted for Democrats?

 

[BULLDOG]

So Christians should have only voted for Democrats?

I'm sure you don't see how goofy that question is. Just do the best that you can.

 

[ding]

I'm sure you don't see how goofy that question is. Just do the best that you can.

Since you are so super intelligent, why don't you explain to me why it's such a goofy question.

And then you will be making my point for me.

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

I won' bother looking it up, but a wide range of TV preachers claim God told them that trump will win the election.

They were right . Bigly.

 

[The Irish Ram]

No one can deny that Christian leaders have taken a larger role in politics over the last several years. Whether that is a good or bad thing covers a wide range of subjects and is not what this thread is about. I just have one question that can be better answered by someone who at least has a working knowledge of the Bible

Prophets in the Bible are generally highly revered. For those that believe in the God of the Bible, receiving direct specific knowledge from God deserves respect. However, even back then, it was known that unscrupulous people might claim God told them something when he didn't. That's why anyone claiming to have a prophecy was held to a high and severe standard. Giving false prophecy that didn't actually occur was grounds for death. Falsely claiming authority of God's knowledge was not tolerated. Obviously, today, we don't kill false prophets, but is there anything in the Bible that says false prophecy should be taken lightly? If a prominent religious leader claims God told him something, and it doesn't happen as claimed, should he maintain his standing in the Christian community?

No.

 

[hadit]

Except...Passover is not a Sacrament instituted by Christ. The Eucharist is. Next are you going to suggest we all be baptized in the Jordan River as Christ was...perhaps by someone named John?

No, because Jesus didn't say that's how to be baptized, just like He didn't say the only way to celebrate communion was to believe you were eating flesh and drinking blood or face excommunication. Do you HONESTLY believe that taking communion in a non-Catholic church is really valid grounds to be so treated? This is the point, when you ignore the context in which Jesus said what He said and ignore the meaning He was trying to get across to glom onto one or two things that you insist were literal while other things were conveniently figurative, you end up in this situation.

 

[hadit]

As you are fully aware...no one excommunicated you or any Protestant. They excommunicated (separated) themselves. That is how excommunication generally happens. You (and any Protestant) are welcome back at any time. No one is keeping you away. All are welcome. That is the meaning of Catholic.

Yet you said if you took communion in a non-Catholic church, you could not take communion again, even if that one was consecrated. Is that not what you said?

 

[ding]

No, because Jesus didn't say that's how to be baptized, just like He didn't say the only way to celebrate communion was to believe you were eating flesh and drinking blood or face excommunication. Do you HONESTLY believe that taking communion in a non-Catholic church is really valid grounds to be so treated? This is the point, when you ignore the context in which Jesus said what He said and ignore the meaning He was trying to get across to glom onto one or two things that you insist were literal while other things were conveniently figurative, you end up in this situation.

There was nothing figurative in that passage.

 

[ding]

Yet you said if you took communion in a non-Catholic church, you could not take communion again, even if that one was consecrated. Is that not what you said?

In church that doesn't believe it's his body and blood?

 

[Meriweather]

He didn't say the only way to celebrate communion was to believe you were eating flesh and drinking blood or face excommunication. Do you HONESTLY believe that taking communion in a non-Catholic church is really valid grounds to be so treated?

Why do you believe excommunication is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad thing? The Catholic Church teaches that the Eucharist is the body, blood, and divinity of Christ. If one does not hold this belief, they don't become Catholic. If one stops believing this, separate/leave the Catholic Church. Excommunication = to separate. It's not as if the Catholic Church comes with hammer and tongs after those who leave (excommunicate themselves) from the Catholic faith. Excommunication is an adjective used to describe a former Catholics status in relationship to the Catholic faith. Most simply say they left the Catholic Church. Same difference.

 

[Meriweather]

Yet you said if you took communion in a non-Catholic church, you could not take communion again, even if that one was consecrated. Is that not what you said?

I said when I go to two church services and receive communion first in the Catholic Church (because it's at the earlier time), I cannot receive communion a second time on that day. It would be like being baptized two times in one day.

 

[hadit]

Why do you believe excommunication is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad thing? The Catholic Church teaches that the Eucharist is the body, blood, and divinity of Christ. If one does not hold this belief, they don't become Catholic. If one stops believing this, separate/leave the Catholic Church. Excommunication = to separate. It's not as if the Catholic Church comes with hammer and tongs after those who leave (excommunicate themselves) from the Catholic faith. Excommunication is an adjective used to describe a former Catholics status in relationship to the Catholic faith. Most simply say they left the Catholic Church. Same difference.

Because in my experience, excommunication also entails separation from your former church family in your daily life, not just that you stop going to a particular church building. IOW, why would you associate with someone you deem unworthy to worship with you? Simply leaving a church does not carry that same weight. Remember, I come from Amish/Mennonite roots, and they take excommunication very seriously indeed.

 

[hadit]

I said when I go to two church services and receive communion first in the Catholic Church (because it's at the earlier time), I cannot receive communion a second time on that day. It would be like being baptized two times in one day.

Thank you for clarifying. That helps. I would say, however, that restricting communion to just once a day is just a tradition thing. My grandfather, after leaving the Amish, became a Bishop in the Mennonite church. In case you are unaware, a Bishop oversees multiple congregations and will travel around to visit them, sometimes on the same day. If he were to visit two or three congregations and they all celebrated communion and feet washing on the same day, which was the custom, He would not refuse to celebrate with one group just because he already celebrated with another.

 

[Meriweather]

Because in my experience, excommunication also entails separation from your former church family in your daily life, not just that you stop going to a particular church building. IOW, why would you associate with someone you deem unworthy to worship with you? Simply leaving a church does not carry that same weight. Remember, I come from Amish/Mennonite roots, and they take excommunication very seriously indeed.

Here is the reality: Catholic means open and welcoming to all. Not only that, Christ redeemed the world--all are worthy.

Snubbing others if they are not marching in lockstep with you may be an Amish/Mennonite practice, but Jesus gave us a different teaching. Remember the parable of the Prodigal Son? When his youngest son left, the father went out and looked for his return. Jesus told of a good shepherd who, when one of his sheep wanders away, he leaves the other ninety-nine to go in search of the one who wandered off.

I am married to an atheist from an atheist family. My grandfather was an atheist. My favorite uncle and two brothers left the Catholic faith. We all are/remain close. When they feel they need prayers, they come to me. I associate with them happily because we are all children of God, and but for the grace of God, there go I. Grace is not something one keeps solely for him/herself. It's meant to be used, to be shared. With everyone.

 

[Meriweather]

Thank you for clarifying. That helps. I would say, however, that restricting communion to just once a day is just a tradition thing. My grandfather, after leaving the Amish, became a Bishop in the Mennonite church. In case you are unaware, a Bishop oversees multiple congregations and will travel around to visit them, sometimes on the same day. If he were to visit two or three congregations and they all celebrated communion and feet washing on the same day, which was the custom, He would not refuse to celebrate with one group just because he already celebrated with another.

But I do celebrate. I do not embrace that odd idea that if I do not receive communion at Mass or at any other service that somehow I am refusing anything. My celebration is whole and complete, in communion with God and in communion with those I am worshiping with. Seriously, do you truly believe that Christ leaves being in communion with me when I attend a second service?

By the way, priests and bishops are exempt from this as they say more than one Mass each Sunday, sometimes each day.

 

[hadit]

Here is the reality: Catholic means open and welcoming to all. Not only that, Christ redeemed the world--all are worthy.

Snubbing others if they are not marching in lockstep with you may be an Amish/Mennonite practice, but Jesus gave us a different teaching. Remember the parable of the Prodigal Son? When his youngest son left, the father went out and looked for his return. Jesus told of a good shepherd who, when one of his sheep wanders away, he leaves the other ninety-nine to go in search of the one who wandered off.

I am married to an atheist from an atheist family. My grandfather was an atheist. My favorite uncle and two brothers left the Catholic faith. We all are/remain close. When they feel they need prayers, they come to me. I associate with them happily because we are all children of God, and but for the grace of God, there go I. Grace is not something one keeps solely for him/herself. It's meant to be used, to be shared. With everyone.

What I grew up with was extreme. Especially the Amish, who, should a young person not return from Rumspringa, will not let that person see their family or anyone else in the community ever again.

 

[hadit]

But I do celebrate. I do not embrace that odd idea that if I do not receive communion at Mass or at any other service that somehow I am refusing anything. My celebration is whole and complete, in communion with God and in communion with those I am worshiping with. Seriously, do you truly believe that Christ leaves being in communion with me when I attend a second service?

No, I believe that communion is a special event in the life of Christians and to miss it is to miss a blessing.

By the way, priests and bishops are exempt from this as they say more than one Mass each Sunday, sometimes each day.

We don't have any restrictions on it, seeing no need to prevent Christians from experiencing it in fellowship with the Body. If they take it in the morning at their home church and again at another church in the evening meeting, they're free to do so. There's no Biblical reason to prevent them.