Putting the Palestine and Israeli feud into perspective.

[bendog]

What Ishmael? What Genesis? What Exodus?

Hamas's actions have a basis in Islam being created as an imitation of Christianity, Jew hatred totally included in the 7th Century.

Muslims may have borrowed Everything from Judaism but they are nothing but barbarians who have never grown out of the 7th century and what Mohammad did to the three Jewish tribes in Arabia.

Well, there I disagree.

Hamas survives on its narrative that the Jews would be driven out of what was Palestine. And in 1947, both "sides" realized they were about ethnic cleansing.


But, we'd move past attempted genocide since then. The Israelis, with all their moral equivalencies, were simply not massacring civilians, but when Hamas uses the Palestinians for "cover," they would not consider that an appropriate "tactic."

Even now, with Israel bombing entire neighborhoods, they probably aren't going to drive all the Pales into the desert to die. But economic ties are probably over, and Israel will establish whatever boundaries it sees as necessary for its defense, and I doubt any Pales outside those boundaries will see a work permit again.

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

few weeks after UNSCOP released its report, Azzam Pasha, the General Secretary of the Arab League, told an Egyptian newspaper "Personally I hope the Jews do not force us into this war because it will be a war of elimination and it will be a dangerous massacre which history will record similarly to the Mongol massacre or the wars of the Crusades."[119] (This statement from October 1947 has often been incorrectly reported as having been made much later on 15 May 1948.)[120] Azzam told Alec Kirkbride "We will sweep them [the Jews] into the sea." Syrian president Shukri al-Quwatli told his people: "We shall eradicate Zionism."[121]

King Farouk of Egypt told the American ambassador to Egypt that in the long run the Arabs would soundly defeat the Jews and drive them out of Palestine.[122]

While Azzam Pasha repeated his threats of forceful prevention of partition, the first important Arab voice to support partition was the influential Egyptian daily Al Mokattam [d]: "We stand for partition because we believe that it is the best final solution for the problem of Palestine... rejection of partition... will lead to further complications and will give the Zionists another space of time to complete their plans of defense and attack... a delay of one more year which would not benefit the Arabs but would benefit the Jews, especially after the British evacuation."[123]

On 20 May 1948, Azzam told reporters "We are fighting for an Arab Palestine. Whatever the outcome the Arabs will stick to their offer of equal citizenship for Jews in Arab Palestine and let them be as Jewish as they like. In areas where they predominate they will have complete autonomy."[124]

The Arab League said that some of the Jews would have to be expelled from a Palestinian Arab state.[125]

Abdullah appointed Ibrahim Hashem Pasha as Military Governor of the Arab areas occupied by troops of the Transjordan Army. He was a former prime minister of Transjordan who supported partition of Palestine as proposed by the Peel Commission and the United Nations.[126]

Arabs in Palestine​

Haj Amin al-Husseini said in March 1948 to an interviewer from the Jaffa daily Al Sarih that the Arabs did not intend merely to prevent partition but "would continue fighting until the Zionists were annihilated."[121]

 

[martybegan]

As far as I am concerned, Israel was recognized early in the 20th century in a land where no country existed. It was effective and legally recognized in 1948 and 1949 by the United Nation. It is settled international law. They are a country with all the rights of self defense and to exist as any other country, and has been for over 75 years. The Palestinians can just go pound sand or be pounded into the sand, by Israel defending their right to exist. I support Israel and the Jewish people.

All these countries were carved out of the dead Ottoman Empire from the various provinces Therin.

The arabs in the area were given a chance to do a peaceful split in 1948, they decided not to. Those arabs and other arabs then lost 3 more full wars and numerous smaller conflicts.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Well, there I disagree.

Hamas survives on its narrative that the Jews would be driven out of what was Palestine. And in 1947, both "sides" realized they were about ethnic cleansing.


But, we'd move past attempted genocide since then. The Israelis, with all their moral equivalencies, were simply not massacring civilians, but when Hamas uses the Palestinians for "cover," they would not consider that an appropriate "tactic."

Even now, with Israel bombing entire neighborhoods, they probably aren't going to drive all the Pales into the desert to die. But economic ties are probably over, and Israel will establish whatever boundaries it sees as necessary for its defense, and I doubt any Pales outside those boundaries will see a work permit again.

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

few weeks after UNSCOP released its report, Azzam Pasha, the General Secretary of the Arab League, told an Egyptian newspaper "Personally I hope the Jews do not force us into this war because it will be a war of elimination and it will be a dangerous massacre which history will record similarly to the Mongol massacre or the wars of the Crusades."[119] (This statement from October 1947 has often been incorrectly reported as having been made much later on 15 May 1948.)[120] Azzam told Alec Kirkbride "We will sweep them [the Jews] into the sea." Syrian president Shukri al-Quwatli told his people: "We shall eradicate Zionism."[121]

King Farouk of Egypt told the American ambassador to Egypt that in the long run the Arabs would soundly defeat the Jews and drive them out of Palestine.[122]

While Azzam Pasha repeated his threats of forceful prevention of partition, the first important Arab voice to support partition was the influential Egyptian daily Al Mokattam [d]: "We stand for partition because we believe that it is the best final solution for the problem of Palestine... rejection of partition... will lead to further complications and will give the Zionists another space of time to complete their plans of defense and attack... a delay of one more year which would not benefit the Arabs but would benefit the Jews, especially after the British evacuation."[123]

On 20 May 1948, Azzam told reporters "We are fighting for an Arab Palestine. Whatever the outcome the Arabs will stick to their offer of equal citizenship for Jews in Arab Palestine and let them be as Jewish as they like. In areas where they predominate they will have complete autonomy."[124]

The Arab League said that some of the Jews would have to be expelled from a Palestinian Arab state.[125]

Abdullah appointed Ibrahim Hashem Pasha as Military Governor of the Arab areas occupied by troops of the Transjordan Army. He was a former prime minister of Transjordan who supported partition of Palestine as proposed by the Peel Commission and the United Nations.[126]

Arabs in Palestine​

Haj Amin al-Husseini said in March 1948 to an interviewer from the Jaffa daily Al Sarih that the Arabs did not intend merely to prevent partition but "would continue fighting until the Zionists were annihilated."[121]

I was talking about the Islamic mentality and where it comes from.


You went into another road, one I more than know the history of.


Nothing has changed from Mohammad to Al Husseini to Hamas.


It is about keeping the Jews in their place or kill them.

 

[BlindBoo]

Palestine was a country.

It was part of some province in the Ottoman Empire before WWI. The allies then carved up the empire and the Brits got the Mandate to administer it.

The Brits and the UN came in a divided up the land and made Israel.

No. I think rather it was Jewish Settlers who declared modern day Israel as the Brits quit the Mandate in April 1948. They fought for the land, it was not given to them.

This is the work of UN.

The UN General Assembly was the only UN body to vote on the Partition Plan. The GA vote is not binding and the matter was suppose to go to the UNSC. That was in 47 and it started the hostilities that led to the independent state. Jews were attacked by hoards of angry Muslims who had once again been lied to about something, this time it was the UN vote. The future Israelis took advantage of those attacks and conquered more territory than the original plan called for.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I was talking about the Islamic mentality and where it comes from.


You went into another road, one I more than know the history of.


Nothing has changed from Mohammad to Al Husseini to Hamas.


It is about keeping the Jews in their place or kill them.

I mostly agree with you, but one thing that DID change was the influence of the Nazi ideology via al Husseini which then admixed with Islam and made the Jew hatred stronger.

A good read on that is "JIHAD and Jew Hatred" by Matthias Kuntzel.

 

[bendog]

I was talking about the Islamic mentality and where it comes from.


You went into another road, one I more than know the history of.


Nothing has changed from Mohammad to Al Husseini to Hamas.


It is about keeping the Jews in their place or kill them.

I know you were, and it is racist.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I know you were, and it is racist.

When you learn the meaning of the word racist, let me know.

Christianity and Islam have always had at the same goal. To humiliate the Jews and make them suffer for not accepting Jesus or Allah.

You are ignorant of history and call people words you do not know the meaning of.

 

[BlindBoo]

All these countries were carved out of the dead Ottoman Empire from the various provinces Therin.

The arabs in the area were given a chance to do a peaceful split in 1948, they decided not to. Those arabs and other arabs then lost 3 more full wars and numerous smaller conflicts.

There was a non binding UN General Assembly vote on the partition plan that was rejected by all the Arab nations in 1947. The UNGA didn't have the authority to carve out countries and establish nations borders. I'm not too sure the UNSC had that power either but in never came to that because the war pretty much started after that vote. Of course it didn't become official until England quit the Mandate, Israel declared it's independence, and the Arab nations declared war. Battles had already been raging before those declarations.

 

[martybegan]

There was a non binding UN General Assembly vote on the partition plan that was rejected by all the Arab nations in 1947. The UNGA didn't have the authority to carve out countries and establish nations borders. I'm not too sure the UNSC had that power either but in never came to that because the war pretty much started after that vote. Of course it didn't become official until England quit the Mandate, Israel declared it's independence, and the Arab nations declared war. Battles had already been raging before those declarations.

They had the power because they had taken over the old League of Nations Mandate that was made after World War One.

The end result and the fact of the matter is the Arabs States lost then, they kept losing, and the situation today stems from those losses, the 1948 one in particular.

 

[BlindBoo]

They had the power because they had taken over the old League of Nations Mandate that was made after World War One.

The end result and the fact of the matter is the Arabs States lost then, they kept losing, and the situation today stems from those losses, the 1948 one in particular.

Where in the UN Charter does it grant the power to create nations, or set national borders to the UNSC. They have no military to enforce anything as they must rely on member states to enforce their binding resolutions. The vote on the partition plan was only a non-binding resolution. Modern Israel was created by Jewish settlers with weapons. It was not given to them by the UN. They fought for it. It was kill or be killed after that GA vote too.

 

[BluesLegend]

Yeah well Mexico probably want's Texas back too, good luck with that.

 

[AsherN]

Palestine was a country.

View attachment 841556
The Brits and the UN came in a divided up the land and made Israel. They gave most of Palestine to the Jews, calling it Israel. Because people will self segregate, everyone was divided. After WW2, millions more jews were put there. Forcing Palestinians to get shoved back even more.

View attachment 841559
This in itself is what has done more to cause the problems than the religious aspect.

This is the work of UN.

Palestinians just want their damn country back. Hamas, as evil as they are, (and they're not god damn evil and should be slaughtered for being so evil) are the worst of the worst. And making this probably much worse than it should be. But being all shoved into such a small area, losing their country, are acting like most people would.

Imagine the US forcing Americans to all move to the west coast so that Europeans could occupy the rest of the USA. We wouldn't stand for it. We did it to the American indians.

It was never a country. It was a mandate administered by The British. It was subsequently partitioned into Israel and Jordan.

 

[martybegan]

Yeah well Mexico probably want's Texas back too, good luck with that.

Shades of the Zimmerman Telegarm.

 

[Woodznutz]

The only authority the UN has was force. That's not really "authority." That's just force. So they signed a document that was "legal" to them, doesn't mean it was right.

If you have to force anything on anyone, apparently it's not the right solution for all.

It was God's doing. When we read prophetic statements, they aren't just 'predictions'. We are being told what God is going to bring about. God said that he would bring a 'remnant' of the Jews back to Judea, and that would cause a calamity for the entire world.

 

[bendog]

It was God's doing. When we read prophetic statements, they aren't just 'predictions'. We are being told what God is going to bring about. God said that he would bring a 'remnant' of the Jews back to Judea, and that would cause a calamity for the entire world.

nuts

 

[Blaster]

Yeah well Mexico probably want's Texas back too, good luck with that.

They can have Austin.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Palestine was a country.

View attachment 841556
The Brits and the UN came in a divided up the land and made Israel. They gave most of Palestine to the Jews, calling it Israel. Because people will self segregate, everyone was divided. After WW2, millions more jews were put there. Forcing Palestinians to get shoved back even more.

View attachment 841559
This in itself is what has done more to cause the problems than the religious aspect.

This is the work of UN.

Palestinians just want their damn country back. Hamas, as evil as they are, (and they're not god damn evil and should be slaughtered for being so evil) are the worst of the worst. And making this probably much worse than it should be. But being all shoved into such a small area, losing their country, are acting like most people would.

Imagine the US forcing Americans to all move to the west coast so that Europeans could occupy the rest of the USA. We wouldn't stand for it. We did it to the American indians.

Palestine was a country.

View attachment 841556
The Brits and the UN came in a divided up the land and made Israel. They gave most of Palestine to the Jews, calling it Israel. Because people will self segregate, everyone was divided. After WW2, millions more jews were put there. Forcing Palestinians to get shoved back even more.

View attachment 841559
This in itself is what has done more to cause the problems than the religious aspect.

This is the work of UN.

Palestinians just want their damn country back. Hamas, as evil as they are, (and they're not god damn evil and should be slaughtered for being so evil) are the worst of the worst. And making this probably much worse than it should be. But being all shoved into such a small area, losing their country, are acting like most people would.

Imagine the US forcing Americans to all move to the west coast so that Europeans could occupy the rest of the USA. We wouldn't stand for it. We did it to the American indians.

 

[22lcidw]

the OP needs to go back "a little further" in history for her history. LOL

But it's really irrelevant now. Personally, I think the gop had the better policy on Israel's formations (NO) back ... 80 years ago ... but what this week ended was any chance Israel would support helping the Pales socially. Even if they had gone full apartheid, they did offer jobs and security, for peaceful coexistence.

IF the US wants to see how to "close a border," the lesson will be given. (-:

How far do we go? Perhaps to Targ the leader of the Neanderthal tribe hundreds of thousands of years ago.

 

[Rigby5]

And Israel just wanted their country back
Even Arabs didnt recognize there being such a thing as Palestinians. Lol
I remember reading a quote from a British explorer in the 19th century that said something like, "ISrael, a people with no land. Palestine, a land with no people"

Wrong.
There has never been country called Israel before.
Back from 1000 BC to about 850 BC there were the 3 city states of Judea, Samaria, and Israel.
It was not a country, but just a city state.
And it was defeated an utterly destroyed by the Assyrians in 850 BC.
When some Jews came back, the Babylonians beat them and force them to leave around 700 BC.
For 500 years the Greeks ruled after Alexander the Great came through.
Then the Romans picked the Jews as puppet in 60 BC, but then kicked them out again in 60 AD, after they rebelled.

And clearly the Palestinians predate the Jewish invasion.
The Palestinian Canaanites go back further than any other city in the world, in Jericho, to 8000 BC.
And they were not Hebrew.
The Canaanites had a one of the early written languages, while the Hebrew had no script at all until the Romans made one for them around 100 BC.

 

[fncceo]

Palestinians just want their damn country back.